From: lordovdale@aol.com (LordovDale)
Date: 03 Sep 1998 21:42:42 EDT
Friends and Patrons of the Duel of Swords,
The Baronial Council has come to its final decision on what to do in the matter for the Twelfth ring, between Baron Roland and Warlord Clutch. The options presented were as follows:
1) Allow a Rematch to Procede.
2) Declare Clutch's absence a forfeit. Allow Roland to retain his ring and strip Clutch of his peer wins.
The procedure was called to an end when the vote reached 6-5 in favor of Option #2. Even though there was one Baron left to vote, who could, at best, bring it to a tie, I made it clear that, should it be a tie, I would choose #2. Since I would be the tie breaking vote in said situation, there is no possible outcome except for the actions listed in Option #2.
Therefore, the Baronial Council has elected to Declare Roland the Winner of the Challenge by Forfeit and to strip Warlord Clutch of his Peer Wins. I now leave my responsibilities in favor of the Coordinators of our sport for enforcement.
respectfully,
Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon
Overlord of the Duel of Swords
Lord of the Dale
Guardian of the Oldest House
Final Decision on The Twelfth Ring
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 03 Sep 1998 23:00:38 EDT
Tacks up a short note.
To the Council and community.
I most heartily applaud the decision of the Baron's Council and the stance of the Overlord in this matter. I have long held that it behooves anyone who chooses to throw down the gauntlet in challenge for title to assume all the responsibilities that said challenger entails.
I would remind those who wish to issue challenge that declaring a second is among the long standing traditions of the duels. There exists precedent even now for the second to stand for the challenger should unforeseen circumstances prevent the challenger from entering the ring.
Jona,
Common as they come.
Date: 03 Sep 1998 23:00:38 EDT
Tacks up a short note.
To the Council and community.
I most heartily applaud the decision of the Baron's Council and the stance of the Overlord in this matter. I have long held that it behooves anyone who chooses to throw down the gauntlet in challenge for title to assume all the responsibilities that said challenger entails.
I would remind those who wish to issue challenge that declaring a second is among the long standing traditions of the duels. There exists precedent even now for the second to stand for the challenger should unforeseen circumstances prevent the challenger from entering the ring.
Jona,
Common as they come.
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From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 04 Sep 1998 01:57:29 EDT
::reading the posts on the matter as he passes by, only stopping to say::
It's just a matter of whether our decision is actually valid. Like Helix told us.
Date: 04 Sep 1998 01:57:29 EDT
::reading the posts on the matter as he passes by, only stopping to say::
It's just a matter of whether our decision is actually valid. Like Helix told us.
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From: lyonxx@aol.com (Lyon xx)
Date: 05 Sep 1998 20:14:48 EDT
If the decision is valid, then I'm all for it. One thing I'd like to see though is a list of how everyone voted.
Lyon
Date: 05 Sep 1998 20:14:48 EDT
If the decision is valid, then I'm all for it. One thing I'd like to see though is a list of how everyone voted.
Lyon
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 05 Sep 1998 20:33:31 EDT
Come now, Lyon. I can tell you how everyone voted just from the results of the voting. I am pretty sure I am right too.
My guess is that all the Loyals but Roland voted. So they all voted to strip Clutch. 6 to strip. All the Renegades voted against them. 5 for a rematch. Really isn't hard to figure out. Is it?
Percy
Date: 05 Sep 1998 20:33:31 EDT
Come now, Lyon. I can tell you how everyone voted just from the results of the voting. I am pretty sure I am right too.
My guess is that all the Loyals but Roland voted. So they all voted to strip Clutch. 6 to strip. All the Renegades voted against them. 5 for a rematch. Really isn't hard to figure out. Is it?
Percy
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From: lyonxx@aol.com (Lyon xx)
Date: 05 Sep 1998 20:38:08 EDT
I try not to assume Percy, just look at the facts thats all.
Lyon
Date: 05 Sep 1998 20:38:08 EDT
I try not to assume Percy, just look at the facts thats all.
Lyon
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From: ytmeis@aol.com (YTMEIS)
Date: 05 Sep 1998 22:11:12 EDT
The reason they don't say who voted which way is to provide a semi-secret ballot - this way, they can't be attacked for how they voted.
- Jaem Triver, M@A
Asst. Capt., The Disengaged
Date: 05 Sep 1998 22:11:12 EDT
The reason they don't say who voted which way is to provide a semi-secret ballot - this way, they can't be attacked for how they voted.
- Jaem Triver, M@A
Asst. Capt., The Disengaged
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From: sartanz@aol.com (Sartan Z)
Date: 06 Sep 1998 01:27:24 EDT
Come now, Lyon. I can tell you how everyone voted just from the results of the voting. I am pretty sure I am right too.
My guess is that all the Loyals but Roland voted. So they all voted to strip Clutch. 6 to strip. All the Renegades voted against them. 5 for a rematch. Really isn't hard to figure out. Is it?
Percy
((I usually don't like having another post within my own message, but this is just to keep it clear what Sar's replying too..))
Percival,
It's sort of ridiculous to assume that just because one is Loyal, one will vote in favor of another Loyal Baron, is it not? Being Loyal to Dalamar has no bearing on whether or not a Challenger should be allowed to go forth with his challenge, after having failed to arrive at its scheduled time.
Basically, what I'm saying is that I really doubt there are such lines drawn in the sand. I know from my own tenure as a Baron that, if an issue came up, I didn't take one look at which Baron was involved and say "Oh, he's Loyal to Dalamar, as am I. I guess that means I should vote in his favor." or "Hiss, a Renegade. Give the Challenger all the chances he can get." No, I tried to look at all the circumstances and come to a fair
decision.
If your comment means that your House simply voted in favor of the Challenger because he was challenging a Baron loyal to Dalamar, perhaps your house members need to reevaluate how they come to their decisions as Barons, eh?
Sartan
Date: 06 Sep 1998 01:27:24 EDT
Come now, Lyon. I can tell you how everyone voted just from the results of the voting. I am pretty sure I am right too.
My guess is that all the Loyals but Roland voted. So they all voted to strip Clutch. 6 to strip. All the Renegades voted against them. 5 for a rematch. Really isn't hard to figure out. Is it?
Percy
((I usually don't like having another post within my own message, but this is just to keep it clear what Sar's replying too..))
Percival,
It's sort of ridiculous to assume that just because one is Loyal, one will vote in favor of another Loyal Baron, is it not? Being Loyal to Dalamar has no bearing on whether or not a Challenger should be allowed to go forth with his challenge, after having failed to arrive at its scheduled time.
Basically, what I'm saying is that I really doubt there are such lines drawn in the sand. I know from my own tenure as a Baron that, if an issue came up, I didn't take one look at which Baron was involved and say "Oh, he's Loyal to Dalamar, as am I. I guess that means I should vote in his favor." or "Hiss, a Renegade. Give the Challenger all the chances he can get." No, I tried to look at all the circumstances and come to a fair
decision.
If your comment means that your House simply voted in favor of the Challenger because he was challenging a Baron loyal to Dalamar, perhaps your house members need to reevaluate how they come to their decisions as Barons, eh?
Sartan
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 06 Sep 1998 10:54:51 EDT
It is natural in a 2 party system to side with the decision that will benifiet your party. From what I've seen in DoS, we seem to operate on a 2 party sytems...your either for Dal, or against him....It may not seem right, but that is the way the world goes. It is just a shame that there arent that many people like you around Sartan, cause then there might not be as many pointless attacks on people. But thats just what I think....
As always,
Cletus
House Rising
Guardian of Polaris
Eternal Common person of DoS
Date: 06 Sep 1998 10:54:51 EDT
It is natural in a 2 party system to side with the decision that will benifiet your party. From what I've seen in DoS, we seem to operate on a 2 party sytems...your either for Dal, or against him....It may not seem right, but that is the way the world goes. It is just a shame that there arent that many people like you around Sartan, cause then there might not be as many pointless attacks on people. But thats just what I think....
As always,
Cletus
House Rising
Guardian of Polaris
Eternal Common person of DoS
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From: jakvaltrds@aol.com (Jakvaltrds)
Date: 07 Sep 1998 01:47:39 EDT
::pens a quick reply to the banter::
My guess Percival, would be you have an inside track to the council. As to my vote I have no qualms with telling all the DoS how I voted.
I voted the duel be deemed forfiet due to the warlords failure to meet his challenge,as well as his right to challenge for the remainder of the cycle be revolked. Tha' would be this cycle, the one that began after the Warlords Tournament.
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First
Loyal to RhyDin and her Overlord
Date: 07 Sep 1998 01:47:39 EDT
::pens a quick reply to the banter::
My guess Percival, would be you have an inside track to the council. As to my vote I have no qualms with telling all the DoS how I voted.
I voted the duel be deemed forfiet due to the warlords failure to meet his challenge,as well as his right to challenge for the remainder of the cycle be revolked. Tha' would be this cycle, the one that began after the Warlords Tournament.
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First
Loyal to RhyDin and her Overlord
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From: shivblade@aol.com (SHIV BLADE)
Date: 07 Sep 1998 02:53:57 EDT
I too have no reason to hide my vote....
I will say this also. The reason it took us a while to get this done is that some people swayed back and forth on their votes. For some points were brought up that made the decision difficult. Yet i held to my convictions, and what i felt the points ment, and thus voted that....
Clutch be able to go ahead with the challenge.
Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 6th
P.S. In case anyone wanted to know.... the final vote came out to be 6-6, and the honorable OverLord did decide the outcome.
Date: 07 Sep 1998 02:53:57 EDT
I too have no reason to hide my vote....
I will say this also. The reason it took us a while to get this done is that some people swayed back and forth on their votes. For some points were brought up that made the decision difficult. Yet i held to my convictions, and what i felt the points ment, and thus voted that....
Clutch be able to go ahead with the challenge.
Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 6th
P.S. In case anyone wanted to know.... the final vote came out to be 6-6, and the honorable OverLord did decide the outcome.
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 07 Sep 1998 17:27:12 EDT
Seamus,
The opinion I posted was just that. My opinions and knowledge of the current situation combined with what I know of a few of the Barons were used to form my best educated guess. I am convinced my guess is accurate, and your post and that of Avery would seem to confirm my hypothesis.
Just to clarify something that was mentioned by one or two when I made my original post: I was by no means lauding or castigating one faction or the other for their vote, nor any individuals. Dalamar's post made his personal stance clear, and it was my guess that the Loyal Barons backed him and the Renegade Barons opposed him. That simple. Quite frankly, I have given people my opinion on everything so much that I figured they would not wish to
hear how I felt on this matter. ...chuckles as we writes... So I simply answered the question asked regarding how people voted, to the best of my ability.
Duc de Clermont
Date: 07 Sep 1998 17:27:12 EDT
Seamus,
The opinion I posted was just that. My opinions and knowledge of the current situation combined with what I know of a few of the Barons were used to form my best educated guess. I am convinced my guess is accurate, and your post and that of Avery would seem to confirm my hypothesis.
Just to clarify something that was mentioned by one or two when I made my original post: I was by no means lauding or castigating one faction or the other for their vote, nor any individuals. Dalamar's post made his personal stance clear, and it was my guess that the Loyal Barons backed him and the Renegade Barons opposed him. That simple. Quite frankly, I have given people my opinion on everything so much that I figured they would not wish to
hear how I felt on this matter. ...chuckles as we writes... So I simply answered the question asked regarding how people voted, to the best of my ability.
Duc de Clermont
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 07 Sep 1998 18:39:33 EDT
::reads all the posts and then scribbles on the paper::
To all who think it was a two party system, it may have been for some. I had changed my vote a number of times however when new information had been revealed to the Council. Don't think everyone is either for or against and will never change, because sometimes it is just not true.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
House Rising
Date: 07 Sep 1998 18:39:33 EDT
::reads all the posts and then scribbles on the paper::
To all who think it was a two party system, it may have been for some. I had changed my vote a number of times however when new information had been revealed to the Council. Don't think everyone is either for or against and will never change, because sometimes it is just not true.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
House Rising
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From: lyonxx@aol.com (Lyon xx)
Date: 07 Sep 1998 19:52:13 EDT
Educated guess? Did you make it before or after Zen told you how everyone voted? Like I said Percy, I had my thoughts on how every one voted, I just didn't want to make broad assumptions.
I would like to see in the future how the barons vote on issues. I think it should be made public. If *I* (the I used here is a loose representation of the DoS community. I understand the inherent risk in taking such a liberty, but try to see the macro point I am making.) were to constantly see a baron vote in a manner that *I* did not deem proper, *I* could make plans to try and remove that baron. That was the reason I said I'd like to know how
all the barons voted.
Lyon
Date: 07 Sep 1998 19:52:13 EDT
Educated guess? Did you make it before or after Zen told you how everyone voted? Like I said Percy, I had my thoughts on how every one voted, I just didn't want to make broad assumptions.
I would like to see in the future how the barons vote on issues. I think it should be made public. If *I* (the I used here is a loose representation of the DoS community. I understand the inherent risk in taking such a liberty, but try to see the macro point I am making.) were to constantly see a baron vote in a manner that *I* did not deem proper, *I* could make plans to try and remove that baron. That was the reason I said I'd like to know how
all the barons voted.
Lyon
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From: shivblade@aol.com (SHIV BLADE)
Date: 07 Sep 1998 20:22:07 EDT
Lyon,
It is funny how you bring up that issue of making the vote public. For I did try to make that happen while the voting process was going on. I told everyone that i would make it public if no one had any faults with it. My reasoning being pretty much what yours was. Unfortunately some people had objections to it and so i was not able to do so.
Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 6th
Date: 07 Sep 1998 20:22:07 EDT
Lyon,
It is funny how you bring up that issue of making the vote public. For I did try to make that happen while the voting process was going on. I told everyone that i would make it public if no one had any faults with it. My reasoning being pretty much what yours was. Unfortunately some people had objections to it and so i was not able to do so.
Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 6th