From: xjaycyndax@aol.com (XJaycyndaX)
Date: 10 Oct 1998 17:39:11 EDT
Jona,
Forgive me, but I do not understand the basis in which you claim I've been deceitful. Am I such because I do not politically support Dalamar, yet consider him a friend? Because I would die for a friend, but cannot stand by his side in political matters, I am deceitful? Only once have I ever made a political statement on these boards, and that was in regard to Dal's decision to realign Evan to renegade. In that, I said perhaps Dal was wrong in
what he did, and I felt Dal should have talked to Evan before doing such. Was that deceit?
Or was it my claim that I wished a friendly challenge, without the politics? It was truth. Please, allow me to explain my reasoning behind challenging Evan. I'll go through the Barons one by one.
First Ring, Seamus. Someone I consider a close friend, a good Baron, and recently defended.
Second Ring, AJay. A man I respect and look up to, and recently defended.
Fourth Ring, Zen. A man I barely know, and because of that, did not know how he would respond to a friendly challenge.
Fifth Ring, Morgan. A good friend, and the only other female on the Council... it may be wrong, but I won't challenge a lady.
Sixth Ring, Sartan. Another gentleman I look up to, and consider a close friend.
Seventh Ring, Kalamere. A great man, one I have respected since meeting him. Again, a close friend in my eyes, and in my opinion one of the greatest men to hold title in the Duel of Swords.
Eighth Ring, Jeff. First and foremost, my teacher. One who I see as a fine man ( or dwarf, in this case ), and someone I look up to.
Ninth Ring, G. One of my best friends in DoS, a good gentleman, and my House Leader. My first teacher, and the one who brought me here, and puts up with my begging for him to call practice duels.
Tenth Ring, Var. A Housemate.
Eleventh Ring, Gimmzak. Another of my best friends, a good Baron, and a Housemate.
Twelfth Ring, Roland. My big brother... a fine gentleman who I respect highly, both in and out of the rings, and a good Baron.
Thirteenth Ring, Magnus. Recently defended, under challenge.
Those are my reasons for *not* challenging the other Barons. Never once was alignment a factor... as a matter of fact, when I first began thinking of challenging Evan, he was, in fact, a Renegade Baron.
I challenged Evan because while he was not someone I consider a close friend, he was a friend nonetheless, and I knew he would receive the challenge in good humor. Which he did. That is why I challenged Evan.
Please, tell me... where is the deceit?
Simply,
Jaycy
Results of Third Baronial Ring Challenge
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From: rolandsal@aol.com (Roland Sal)
Date: 10 Oct 1998 18:39:01 EDT
Perci, Jona, and others who have posted in this thread;
First, allow me to clear up a few things. This whole issue has been a misunderstanding after misunderstanding from the start. Jona sees Jaycynda decitful for not informing me of her allignment before hand. Jaycy is confused as to why because we have come to terms with the misunderstanding and have forgave each other. The rest of this matter is between myself, Jona, and Jaycy.
Now, rather than stating more of your beliefs or opinions on this matter, take a moment to think of what you are doing. You are jumping from one misunderstanding to another and throwing insults while avoiding the main issue here.
This is more than a private matter and should be dealt with accordingly. Jaycy, Jona, both of your friendships mean more to me than a misunderstanding in the politics of these rings. If you wish to sit down and discuess the matter between ourselves, then by all means contact me.
Now, Perci, I am a bit suprised at your role in this. The insult was thrown at Jaycynda and Evan, not yourself. Granted, Jaycy is your friend, and I understand your need to help, but please, keep your accusions to yourself untill the Baroness has replied. Not only did you jump to conclusion as to how Jaycynda would handle it, you took a cheap shot at a Baron of proven ability. Something that only fuels the fire to these boards. My pardons if you
take insult to this, I feel I am as much your friend as any.
Written in haste,
Roland Sal Roa
Date: 10 Oct 1998 18:39:01 EDT
Perci, Jona, and others who have posted in this thread;
First, allow me to clear up a few things. This whole issue has been a misunderstanding after misunderstanding from the start. Jona sees Jaycynda decitful for not informing me of her allignment before hand. Jaycy is confused as to why because we have come to terms with the misunderstanding and have forgave each other. The rest of this matter is between myself, Jona, and Jaycy.
Now, rather than stating more of your beliefs or opinions on this matter, take a moment to think of what you are doing. You are jumping from one misunderstanding to another and throwing insults while avoiding the main issue here.
This is more than a private matter and should be dealt with accordingly. Jaycy, Jona, both of your friendships mean more to me than a misunderstanding in the politics of these rings. If you wish to sit down and discuess the matter between ourselves, then by all means contact me.
Now, Perci, I am a bit suprised at your role in this. The insult was thrown at Jaycynda and Evan, not yourself. Granted, Jaycy is your friend, and I understand your need to help, but please, keep your accusions to yourself untill the Baroness has replied. Not only did you jump to conclusion as to how Jaycynda would handle it, you took a cheap shot at a Baron of proven ability. Something that only fuels the fire to these boards. My pardons if you
take insult to this, I feel I am as much your friend as any.
Written in haste,
Roland Sal Roa
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 10 Oct 1998 19:32:26 EDT
Community Members,
The choice of an alignment is a personal one. If one does not insinuate that they would chose one alignment and after earning the Baron's ring change their mind then that is far from deceitful.
To my knowledge, Jaycynda Ashleana never told anyone before hand about her prospective alignment and therefore deceived no one.
Roland, no offense, but if this is a matter between you, Jaycy, and Jona then why is Jona placing this accusation up for all to see?
Further more.. in my opinion, no one need know a baron/baroness's choice of alignment until they win the ring. If the misunderstanding is because Jaycy didn't inform YOU of her chosen alignment then how does Jona fit?
One simple question, Roland, Jona, did either of you ask Jaycy her choice prior to her challenge? As was pointed out to those of us that argued that Dalamar was wrong or deceptive for not making public his personal policy regarding Neutral Barons and were quelled when someone did finally ask and he wrote his thoughts for all to see.
I ask this, since many including Jona, I believe, made the suggestion that we should ask people for information before assuming they are being deceptive, etc.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
Date: 10 Oct 1998 19:32:26 EDT
Community Members,
The choice of an alignment is a personal one. If one does not insinuate that they would chose one alignment and after earning the Baron's ring change their mind then that is far from deceitful.
To my knowledge, Jaycynda Ashleana never told anyone before hand about her prospective alignment and therefore deceived no one.
Roland, no offense, but if this is a matter between you, Jaycy, and Jona then why is Jona placing this accusation up for all to see?
Further more.. in my opinion, no one need know a baron/baroness's choice of alignment until they win the ring. If the misunderstanding is because Jaycy didn't inform YOU of her chosen alignment then how does Jona fit?
One simple question, Roland, Jona, did either of you ask Jaycy her choice prior to her challenge? As was pointed out to those of us that argued that Dalamar was wrong or deceptive for not making public his personal policy regarding Neutral Barons and were quelled when someone did finally ask and he wrote his thoughts for all to see.
I ask this, since many including Jona, I believe, made the suggestion that we should ask people for information before assuming they are being deceptive, etc.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
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From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 10 Oct 1998 19:48:33 EDT
Percival and others,
Perhaps each of *you* should take the time to understand what the deceit means. I found Jona's post quite clear and accurate. The fact that you jumped to defend a fact that had not even been brought perhaps casts a shadow over that matter. Perhaps next time before you post a rebuttal to an "accusation", you figure out what it is beforehand. It's not Jona's responsibility to enlighten you as to the meaning of her "empty rhetoric" as you decided
to name it. Perhaps you'll take a pause before you next decided to preach to a congregation that's not there. I apologize if anyone feels like I'm putting words in their mouth, but chances are the words were already there.
-- Lucian
-- Lucian
Date: 10 Oct 1998 19:48:33 EDT
Percival and others,
Perhaps each of *you* should take the time to understand what the deceit means. I found Jona's post quite clear and accurate. The fact that you jumped to defend a fact that had not even been brought perhaps casts a shadow over that matter. Perhaps next time before you post a rebuttal to an "accusation", you figure out what it is beforehand. It's not Jona's responsibility to enlighten you as to the meaning of her "empty rhetoric" as you decided
to name it. Perhaps you'll take a pause before you next decided to preach to a congregation that's not there. I apologize if anyone feels like I'm putting words in their mouth, but chances are the words were already there.
-- Lucian
-- Lucian
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From: rolandsal@aol.com (Roland Sal)
Date: 10 Oct 1998 21:48:57 EDT
Collie,
You must understand that when Jona wrote the missive upon the boards she was riding on the information that was open to her at the time.
Your post was well wrote and carried the usual points. However, it was unneeded. You are merely stiring the pot, per say. Not that it may be your intention to, but this is exactly what turns the fun of the sport, sour.
That is all you will get out of me on this matter. As you will have to approach me privately to reveal my reasons on this, and even then I can't promise you an answer, as I attempt to respect my friends' privacy.
Roland
Date: 10 Oct 1998 21:48:57 EDT
Collie,
You must understand that when Jona wrote the missive upon the boards she was riding on the information that was open to her at the time.
Your post was well wrote and carried the usual points. However, it was unneeded. You are merely stiring the pot, per say. Not that it may be your intention to, but this is exactly what turns the fun of the sport, sour.
That is all you will get out of me on this matter. As you will have to approach me privately to reveal my reasons on this, and even then I can't promise you an answer, as I attempt to respect my friends' privacy.
Roland
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 00:03:09 EDT
> It's not Jona's responsibility to enlighten you as to the meaning of her
> "empty rhetoric" as you decided to name it.
I fear I must disagree with you there Lucian. One who wishes to to label another as deceitful in full view of the public should be able and willing to supply reasons for such a statement. Perhaps Percival and Jaycy jumped ahead of the matter by defending a specific accusation that has not yet been made... but at the same time I would expect Jonalyn to be courteous enough to either (a) apologize for having issued a public insult or (b) explain her
stance on the matter.
~Kalamere...
Date: 11 Oct 1998 00:03:09 EDT
> It's not Jona's responsibility to enlighten you as to the meaning of her
> "empty rhetoric" as you decided to name it.
I fear I must disagree with you there Lucian. One who wishes to to label another as deceitful in full view of the public should be able and willing to supply reasons for such a statement. Perhaps Percival and Jaycy jumped ahead of the matter by defending a specific accusation that has not yet been made... but at the same time I would expect Jonalyn to be courteous enough to either (a) apologize for having issued a public insult or (b) explain her
stance on the matter.
~Kalamere...
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From: xjaycyndax@aol.com (XJaycyndaX)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 01:49:30 EDT
Someone once told me, it is better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
While I understand this philosophy has some merit, I do not entirely believe it. I, for one, would rather be thought a fool than someone who could be called deceitful. Because of that, I felt I should say *something* in my defense, in an attempt to at least help someone begin to understand my side of things... lest others simply accept me as a deceitful person without asking for my side. And so I made an attempt to willingly begin to offer that
side, allowing everyone to read or ignore as they so chose.
I meant no disrespect to Jona in my response, and I like to think it was calm and non-threatening, even if it was defensive. Yes, I might have misunderstood. Yes, I might have assumed. I'm not perfect. I have faults... many of them... too many.
All I ask is the right to know why something is being said, so I can have a chance to properly explain myself. Please. If you wish to call me deceitful, at least let me know why.
Simply,
Jaycy
Date: 11 Oct 1998 01:49:30 EDT
Someone once told me, it is better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
While I understand this philosophy has some merit, I do not entirely believe it. I, for one, would rather be thought a fool than someone who could be called deceitful. Because of that, I felt I should say *something* in my defense, in an attempt to at least help someone begin to understand my side of things... lest others simply accept me as a deceitful person without asking for my side. And so I made an attempt to willingly begin to offer that
side, allowing everyone to read or ignore as they so chose.
I meant no disrespect to Jona in my response, and I like to think it was calm and non-threatening, even if it was defensive. Yes, I might have misunderstood. Yes, I might have assumed. I'm not perfect. I have faults... many of them... too many.
All I ask is the right to know why something is being said, so I can have a chance to properly explain myself. Please. If you wish to call me deceitful, at least let me know why.
Simply,
Jaycy
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From: unseenwrth@aol.com (UnseenWrth)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 04:11:43 EDT
A note appears.
We continue to watch, and are dismayed. At a time when our perception of the honor of this place sinks lower and lower, one who represents the glory of the past aggrieves us with base words.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare, you have publicly sullied the reputation of one who represents those few who would restore the light to this hallowed, but now decrepit shrine. Honor dictates that - if, indeed, your words are other than base slander - you explain the issue publicly, as you addressed it. If, indeed, the new Baroness has committed deceit, then speak it plain, so that all might know.
We are not amused. Heed our previous notice, lest we determine that even those whose souls are entwined with glorious history are beyond salvation.
Date: 11 Oct 1998 04:11:43 EDT
A note appears.
We continue to watch, and are dismayed. At a time when our perception of the honor of this place sinks lower and lower, one who represents the glory of the past aggrieves us with base words.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare, you have publicly sullied the reputation of one who represents those few who would restore the light to this hallowed, but now decrepit shrine. Honor dictates that - if, indeed, your words are other than base slander - you explain the issue publicly, as you addressed it. If, indeed, the new Baroness has committed deceit, then speak it plain, so that all might know.
We are not amused. Heed our previous notice, lest we determine that even those whose souls are entwined with glorious history are beyond salvation.
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From: jolafici@aol.com (Jola Fici)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 06:56:45 EDT
Jola frowns as Wil reads some of the responses to the announcement of the Third ring challenge. She asks him to put up a short note for her, while not even listening to his own comments on the subject, which are mostly muttered under his breath anyway.
-------------
For all to see,
It might have started a private matter, but it was brought public by Jonalyn who declared Jaycynda deceitful.
Jona, gonna back up those words with something substantial or retract and apologize? Ignoring it won't make it go away.
Jola
----------
"And yes, Wil, I do consider Jonalyn a friend. But even friends sometimes do stuff that needs explaining."
With that, he posts the note for her.
Date: 11 Oct 1998 06:56:45 EDT
Jola frowns as Wil reads some of the responses to the announcement of the Third ring challenge. She asks him to put up a short note for her, while not even listening to his own comments on the subject, which are mostly muttered under his breath anyway.
-------------
For all to see,
It might have started a private matter, but it was brought public by Jonalyn who declared Jaycynda deceitful.
Jona, gonna back up those words with something substantial or retract and apologize? Ignoring it won't make it go away.
Jola
----------
"And yes, Wil, I do consider Jonalyn a friend. But even friends sometimes do stuff that needs explaining."
With that, he posts the note for her.
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 14:42:31 EDT
As she peruses the various missives she comes upon the unsigned note. Snagging the pen she writes boldly.
To the coward who dares claim knowledge of the past, yet fears to present an identity.
Fie upon thee. Thine threats are but those to frighten children and those of little wit.
I am neither.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.
Date: 11 Oct 1998 14:42:31 EDT
As she peruses the various missives she comes upon the unsigned note. Snagging the pen she writes boldly.
To the coward who dares claim knowledge of the past, yet fears to present an identity.
Fie upon thee. Thine threats are but those to frighten children and those of little wit.
I am neither.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 15:00:31 EDT
I just have to write again. Jona has been called on by several people now to explain just how Jaycy has been deceitful. Instead of answering anyone's questions, she is flinging insults and bandying meaningless rhetoric. I find this very upsetting, when one of the people I thought one of the better examples here acts in such a disgraceful fashion.
Jona, please, think about what you have been saying. Then, either answer the question or apologize. Please explain just how Jaycy has been deceitful. That is all anyone is asking. No one has been insulting or nasty to you, you have no call to be so to anyone else. Please just explain what you mean.
The White Duke
Date: 11 Oct 1998 15:00:31 EDT
I just have to write again. Jona has been called on by several people now to explain just how Jaycy has been deceitful. Instead of answering anyone's questions, she is flinging insults and bandying meaningless rhetoric. I find this very upsetting, when one of the people I thought one of the better examples here acts in such a disgraceful fashion.
Jona, please, think about what you have been saying. Then, either answer the question or apologize. Please explain just how Jaycy has been deceitful. That is all anyone is asking. No one has been insulting or nasty to you, you have no call to be so to anyone else. Please just explain what you mean.
The White Duke
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 18:01:45 EDT
I, too, find myself very curious as ta Lady Starfare's meaning. I don't question her right ta hold da opinion, nor her right ta voice it. I'd just like ta know where it stems from.
~J
PS: I had spent some time workin' with Baroness Ashleana on duelin' and such, and never once did I care whether she was going loyal or renegade ta Dalamar. I, myself, am quite loyal ta da current overlord, but Jaycy is her own person, its her ring, and she never claimed ta be a loyalist - not ta her teacher (me) or ta her opponent (Evan). At least not from what I've read and heard.
Date: 11 Oct 1998 18:01:45 EDT
I, too, find myself very curious as ta Lady Starfare's meaning. I don't question her right ta hold da opinion, nor her right ta voice it. I'd just like ta know where it stems from.
~J
PS: I had spent some time workin' with Baroness Ashleana on duelin' and such, and never once did I care whether she was going loyal or renegade ta Dalamar. I, myself, am quite loyal ta da current overlord, but Jaycy is her own person, its her ring, and she never claimed ta be a loyalist - not ta her teacher (me) or ta her opponent (Evan). At least not from what I've read and heard.
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 18:09:47 EDT
Ok, I was not going to write on this post, but I feel I must now.
The question has been asked to Jona a number of times. Instead of more people asking it again, give Jona time to come and answer the question, because I am sure in time she will.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 11 Oct 1998 18:09:47 EDT
Ok, I was not going to write on this post, but I feel I must now.
The question has been asked to Jona a number of times. Instead of more people asking it again, give Jona time to come and answer the question, because I am sure in time she will.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:21:35 EDT
::takes an exceptionally rare time to pay one whit of attention to Jonalyn's words, written or otherwise and rolls her eyes::
<m> Poking your nose in other's business again, I see...
::writes::
>>Thy reign ended in deceit and defeat Evan.
Thine reign begins in the same manner, Jaycynda.
May the ring rest heavy on thine hand, Baroness, and may it not rest there overlong.<<
Interesting words, from a woman that does nothing more in the Arena than sit, drink brandy and spout judgement.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:21:35 EDT
::takes an exceptionally rare time to pay one whit of attention to Jonalyn's words, written or otherwise and rolls her eyes::
<m> Poking your nose in other's business again, I see...
::writes::
>>Thy reign ended in deceit and defeat Evan.
Thine reign begins in the same manner, Jaycynda.
May the ring rest heavy on thine hand, Baroness, and may it not rest there overlong.<<
Interesting words, from a woman that does nothing more in the Arena than sit, drink brandy and spout judgement.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 11 Oct 1998 20:54:37 EDT
The commoner skims over the missives, withholding a laugh a she comes upon Madame Elegarett's, dismissing the comment for what it's worth and accepting that it is in Sidartha's nature to comment unknowing of wherefore she speaks.
To the Baron Magnus and others of note.
Mine exact words with regard to Madame Ashleana's chosen alignment were:
"Thine alignment suits thee, wear it well." I care not a whit nor commented upon her choice beyond that. I have never taken a Baron to task for such a choice and do wonder that thou, Percival, thou Baron Gim, thou Colleen as well as Madame Ashleana made the leap from my initial declaration to that of Madame Ashleana's choice of stance with regard to the Overlord.
Madame Ashleana is fully aware of my reasons for my initial comment as is the Baron Roland Sal Roa. As to further comment, a private missive received by me from Madame Ashleana gives me now pause and reason to ponder if in fact the deceit does indeed extend to the challenge of the Baron and her choice of alignment, something that had initially not entered into my reasons for comment.
Jona.
Date: 11 Oct 1998 20:54:37 EDT
The commoner skims over the missives, withholding a laugh a she comes upon Madame Elegarett's, dismissing the comment for what it's worth and accepting that it is in Sidartha's nature to comment unknowing of wherefore she speaks.
To the Baron Magnus and others of note.
Mine exact words with regard to Madame Ashleana's chosen alignment were:
"Thine alignment suits thee, wear it well." I care not a whit nor commented upon her choice beyond that. I have never taken a Baron to task for such a choice and do wonder that thou, Percival, thou Baron Gim, thou Colleen as well as Madame Ashleana made the leap from my initial declaration to that of Madame Ashleana's choice of stance with regard to the Overlord.
Madame Ashleana is fully aware of my reasons for my initial comment as is the Baron Roland Sal Roa. As to further comment, a private missive received by me from Madame Ashleana gives me now pause and reason to ponder if in fact the deceit does indeed extend to the challenge of the Baron and her choice of alignment, something that had initially not entered into my reasons for comment.
Jona.