From: jakemheart@aol.com (JakeMHeart)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 17:11:38 EST
Oooooh, Cletus getting dangerous with the words! Go Cletus!... Go Magnus!!
-------)> Jake :)
Challenge
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 17:22:40 EST
I am perplexed as to how intelligent individuals can call Magnus a hypocrite.
A Renegade Baron, by the rules, is incapable of Championing a Warlord in the same way a Loyal Baron can be a Champion for the Overlord. If Renegade Barons could do such, a situation such as this could happen:
Warlord John challenges the Overlord.
Baron Nimo champions John.
Nimo then duels the Overlord himself, then defeats him.
John becomes Overlord.
Rather, instead of Magnus in fact "Championing" (the term defined by the rules for the Test of Worthiness), he is actually challenging the Overlord's right to intercede in an attempt to null and counteract something he disagrees with. He is not Championing the Warlord. If Magnus's attempt to null the Overlord's attempt is successful, the Warlord still must duel for the actual ring himself (herself). When a Champion is successful,
the Overlord does not need to duel.
Though I know it will not, I hope this clears up the difference between a Test of Worthiness/Overlord Intercession and the battling against an action to even a duel.
~Lupton est Dracoern
Date: 18 Dec 1998 17:22:40 EST
I am perplexed as to how intelligent individuals can call Magnus a hypocrite.
A Renegade Baron, by the rules, is incapable of Championing a Warlord in the same way a Loyal Baron can be a Champion for the Overlord. If Renegade Barons could do such, a situation such as this could happen:
Warlord John challenges the Overlord.
Baron Nimo champions John.
Nimo then duels the Overlord himself, then defeats him.
John becomes Overlord.
Rather, instead of Magnus in fact "Championing" (the term defined by the rules for the Test of Worthiness), he is actually challenging the Overlord's right to intercede in an attempt to null and counteract something he disagrees with. He is not Championing the Warlord. If Magnus's attempt to null the Overlord's attempt is successful, the Warlord still must duel for the actual ring himself (herself). When a Champion is successful,
the Overlord does not need to duel.
Though I know it will not, I hope this clears up the difference between a Test of Worthiness/Overlord Intercession and the battling against an action to even a duel.
~Lupton est Dracoern
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From: xjaycyndax@aol.com (XJaycyndaX)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 17:22:53 EST
Having read the various notes, Jaycy whispers, the sands lifting to parchment and settling themselves, leaving behind a small note.
What concerns me is Magnus is a man, who on at least one instance, has stepped in on a Baronial challenge, when the challenger did indeed ask him not to. If he indeed believes in allowing duelers to fight their own challenges, why did he knowingly step in, despite the challenger's desire to in fact duel for himself?
Who is to say, should he become the Overlord, he will not do the same again?
Jaycynda
Date: 18 Dec 1998 17:22:53 EST
Having read the various notes, Jaycy whispers, the sands lifting to parchment and settling themselves, leaving behind a small note.
What concerns me is Magnus is a man, who on at least one instance, has stepped in on a Baronial challenge, when the challenger did indeed ask him not to. If he indeed believes in allowing duelers to fight their own challenges, why did he knowingly step in, despite the challenger's desire to in fact duel for himself?
Who is to say, should he become the Overlord, he will not do the same again?
Jaycynda
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:29:27 EST
She reads other the following and mutters, "Are ye aware his brother Cletus issued invalid challenge not but a few hours after Dalamar's defense against Daegarth?
Aye Jeff, a simple mistake. Is a man not allowed a mistake? I was informed by someone prior to my doing this that it was legal to do. I also looked at the precident set by Lord Draven and figured that if it was legal for him to do it, then likewise it would be for myself.
Cletus screwed up and Magnus is dere ta take da attention offa it.
Acutally he has been planning to do this for sometime now. He did not do this to take the attention away from my mishap.
but don't assume his honor was passed on in da family gene pool.
For one mistake I am dishonorable?? Interesting... "
Cletus,
Had you done your research a bit more carefully concerning that challenge you would have learned the entire community was in an uproar over that challenge. It's better not to stir that old pot.
Colleen Lasher
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:29:27 EST
She reads other the following and mutters, "Are ye aware his brother Cletus issued invalid challenge not but a few hours after Dalamar's defense against Daegarth?
Aye Jeff, a simple mistake. Is a man not allowed a mistake? I was informed by someone prior to my doing this that it was legal to do. I also looked at the precident set by Lord Draven and figured that if it was legal for him to do it, then likewise it would be for myself.
Cletus screwed up and Magnus is dere ta take da attention offa it.
Acutally he has been planning to do this for sometime now. He did not do this to take the attention away from my mishap.
but don't assume his honor was passed on in da family gene pool.
For one mistake I am dishonorable?? Interesting... "
Cletus,
Had you done your research a bit more carefully concerning that challenge you would have learned the entire community was in an uproar over that challenge. It's better not to stir that old pot.
Colleen Lasher
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:37:55 EST
I bring up another point about testin' and champions.
Loyal barons have opinions too, sometimes we are really opposed ta havin' da challenger become Overlord. In such a case, we ask ta step in, both ta have impact on our future and ta protect an Overlord we like/respect. If Dal grants our request its not necessarily a "Test of Worthiness" but rather a "Loyal baron doesn't want ya here" match. So ya can stop quotin' how many times Magnus has defended himself, etc, etc.
I, personally, don't have an opinion either way as ta his worth; I just don't wanna see him become Overlord.
A simple point of view ya all might wanna take inta account before ya wear yourselves out screamin' MAGNUS IS WORTHY, WHAT ARE YOU DOIN' DAL!!!!!
~J
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:37:55 EST
I bring up another point about testin' and champions.
Loyal barons have opinions too, sometimes we are really opposed ta havin' da challenger become Overlord. In such a case, we ask ta step in, both ta have impact on our future and ta protect an Overlord we like/respect. If Dal grants our request its not necessarily a "Test of Worthiness" but rather a "Loyal baron doesn't want ya here" match. So ya can stop quotin' how many times Magnus has defended himself, etc, etc.
I, personally, don't have an opinion either way as ta his worth; I just don't wanna see him become Overlord.
A simple point of view ya all might wanna take inta account before ya wear yourselves out screamin' MAGNUS IS WORTHY, WHAT ARE YOU DOIN' DAL!!!!!
~J
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:55:11 EST
>>If Dal grants our request its not necessarily a "Test of Worthiness" but rather a "Loyal baron doesn't want ya here" match.<<
Nice to see such refreshing admission of irresponsibility and poor sportsmanship. At least Jeff is admitting the way he really feels. Still, a Baron should be a lot more responsible and mature than that.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 18 Dec 1998 19:55:11 EST
>>If Dal grants our request its not necessarily a "Test of Worthiness" but rather a "Loyal baron doesn't want ya here" match.<<
Nice to see such refreshing admission of irresponsibility and poor sportsmanship. At least Jeff is admitting the way he really feels. Still, a Baron should be a lot more responsible and mature than that.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: rixfavre@aol.com (Rix Favre)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 20:33:53 EST
>Still, a Baron should be a lot more responsible and mature than that.
>
What exactly is irresponsible and immature with a Loyal Baron wanting to stop someone from becoming Overlord?
-Rix
Date: 18 Dec 1998 20:33:53 EST
>Still, a Baron should be a lot more responsible and mature than that.
>
What exactly is irresponsible and immature with a Loyal Baron wanting to stop someone from becoming Overlord?
-Rix
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 20:39:36 EST
>>What exactly is irresponsible and immature with a Loyal Baron wanting to stop someone from becoming Overlord?<<
Let's see now. The Test of Worthiness has a specific purpose and a specific name. Advocating the misuse of certain rights and priveleges because one wishes to stop someone from becoming Overlord isn't precisely either mature or responsible. The odds are already heavily in Dal's favor in the match, without a Test. For people to advocate using the Test now seems less wise, politically, than merely allowing the match to proceed.
Then again, the Loyal Barons seem to have been making a lot of politically unwise choices for awhile now. Maybe Dal needs better help.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 18 Dec 1998 20:39:36 EST
>>What exactly is irresponsible and immature with a Loyal Baron wanting to stop someone from becoming Overlord?<<
Let's see now. The Test of Worthiness has a specific purpose and a specific name. Advocating the misuse of certain rights and priveleges because one wishes to stop someone from becoming Overlord isn't precisely either mature or responsible. The odds are already heavily in Dal's favor in the match, without a Test. For people to advocate using the Test now seems less wise, politically, than merely allowing the match to proceed.
Then again, the Loyal Barons seem to have been making a lot of politically unwise choices for awhile now. Maybe Dal needs better help.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: rixfavre@aol.com (Rix Favre)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 20:49:56 EST
>The Test of Worthiness has a specific purpose and a specific name.
What's in a name? It had to be called something. Could have just as easliy named it the "First, but Optional, Stage of Challenge."
And I always assumed the purpose of it was to make sure the challenger never got the chance to beat the Overlord. Usually used against people you do not think would be good Overlords.
I am quite sure there are some that think Magnus would not exactly be the greatest Overlord. Those that think that probably favor using the test so Magnuse will have little or no chance to assume that title. Thinking that is neither immature, irresponsible, or unwise.
-Rix
-Rix
Date: 18 Dec 1998 20:49:56 EST
>The Test of Worthiness has a specific purpose and a specific name.
What's in a name? It had to be called something. Could have just as easliy named it the "First, but Optional, Stage of Challenge."
And I always assumed the purpose of it was to make sure the challenger never got the chance to beat the Overlord. Usually used against people you do not think would be good Overlords.
I am quite sure there are some that think Magnus would not exactly be the greatest Overlord. Those that think that probably favor using the test so Magnuse will have little or no chance to assume that title. Thinking that is neither immature, irresponsible, or unwise.
-Rix
-Rix
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 21:53:29 EST
So ya can stop quotin' how many times Magnus has defended himself, etc, etc.
Question then Jeff, how come you keep refering to all of Dal's defenses in the ring??
Collie,
The challenge was allowed to proceed if I am not correct...and whats wrong with a little uproar now and then, it keeps the blood flowing...
Cletus
Still confused
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 21:53:29 EST
So ya can stop quotin' how many times Magnus has defended himself, etc, etc.
Question then Jeff, how come you keep refering to all of Dal's defenses in the ring??
Collie,
The challenge was allowed to proceed if I am not correct...and whats wrong with a little uproar now and then, it keeps the blood flowing...
Cletus
Still confused
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 21:59:49 EST
<<Cletus
Still confused>>
Indeed thou art.
Jona.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.
Date: 18 Dec 1998 21:59:49 EST
<<Cletus
Still confused>>
Indeed thou art.
Jona.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 22:16:14 EST
Jona,
I guess you don't see the sarcasim in some things, do you?
Cletus
Still confused
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 22:16:14 EST
Jona,
I guess you don't see the sarcasim in some things, do you?
Cletus
Still confused
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 22:32:00 EST
M'Lord Var,
I shall reiterate that the rules of engagement with respect to the presentation of a proper challenge have nae been changed in all the years that these rings have witnessed the clashing of blades. I should wonder that Master Cletus wouldst mention a precedent set by Draven Altruis II, for to the best of my recollection no precedent wast set by him, save haste in issuing improper challenge. I use the word "precedent" very loosely here, for there had
been then and seem to still be a spate improperly issured challenges. It is a statement upon the times, M'lord Var, these "baby warlords" seeking but for their own aggrandizement, with nary a thought to even take the merest moment peruse the wherewithall and issue proper challenge. As has become known, however, it would seem that the rules of engagement have been most assuredly administered with much less than equal hand in such cases.
M'lord, tis nae secret thee hold animosity for M'Lord Dalamar, upon that thee and I are in disagreement. Ast to the Overlord nae having to face that which may be presented to Renegade and Neutral Barons, that is a queue of challengers, tis indeed stated in the rules of engagement. I shall inquire of thee, wouldst support any who didst seek to overthrow the Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon, with nae a care ast to what that personage represents? Thou must
forgive my bluntness here, M'lord, but tis to me mind verra shortsighted of thee.
I shall also inquire of thee in what way dost consider that Magnus Eques wouldst make a fine overlord?
Ast to what the Baron Magnus stands for, he hast made it quite plain, nae only upon this ancient corkboard but ast well in public comments in the dueling house.
Respectfully,
Jona
Date: 18 Dec 1998 22:32:00 EST
M'Lord Var,
I shall reiterate that the rules of engagement with respect to the presentation of a proper challenge have nae been changed in all the years that these rings have witnessed the clashing of blades. I should wonder that Master Cletus wouldst mention a precedent set by Draven Altruis II, for to the best of my recollection no precedent wast set by him, save haste in issuing improper challenge. I use the word "precedent" very loosely here, for there had
been then and seem to still be a spate improperly issured challenges. It is a statement upon the times, M'lord Var, these "baby warlords" seeking but for their own aggrandizement, with nary a thought to even take the merest moment peruse the wherewithall and issue proper challenge. As has become known, however, it would seem that the rules of engagement have been most assuredly administered with much less than equal hand in such cases.
M'lord, tis nae secret thee hold animosity for M'Lord Dalamar, upon that thee and I are in disagreement. Ast to the Overlord nae having to face that which may be presented to Renegade and Neutral Barons, that is a queue of challengers, tis indeed stated in the rules of engagement. I shall inquire of thee, wouldst support any who didst seek to overthrow the Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon, with nae a care ast to what that personage represents? Thou must
forgive my bluntness here, M'lord, but tis to me mind verra shortsighted of thee.
I shall also inquire of thee in what way dost consider that Magnus Eques wouldst make a fine overlord?
Ast to what the Baron Magnus stands for, he hast made it quite plain, nae only upon this ancient corkboard but ast well in public comments in the dueling house.
Respectfully,
Jona
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From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 18 Dec 1998 23:54:40 EST
"I shall reiterate that the rules of engagement with respect to the presentation of a proper challenge have nae been changed in all the years that these rings have witnessed the clashing of blades."
I do not believe this is so. I remember a time when it was not necessary for a challenge's results to be posted before the results were considered official; it was official as soon as it happened. I use as my example Athlstan's challenging of Daegarth for the title of Overlord after he took it from Martigan Crow. The two battles were fought in a three day span, and the next standings had posted "Daegarth defeats MorganCrow to become the new
Overlord! Athlstan then challenges Daegarth for his title and wins and is now Overlord." Though those words are not exact, that is, to my recollection, what happened. Thus, the rules of a challenge officially being resolved have changed.
Please correct me if I am in error on this matter.
Zen Rising
Date: 18 Dec 1998 23:54:40 EST
"I shall reiterate that the rules of engagement with respect to the presentation of a proper challenge have nae been changed in all the years that these rings have witnessed the clashing of blades."
I do not believe this is so. I remember a time when it was not necessary for a challenge's results to be posted before the results were considered official; it was official as soon as it happened. I use as my example Athlstan's challenging of Daegarth for the title of Overlord after he took it from Martigan Crow. The two battles were fought in a three day span, and the next standings had posted "Daegarth defeats MorganCrow to become the new
Overlord! Athlstan then challenges Daegarth for his title and wins and is now Overlord." Though those words are not exact, that is, to my recollection, what happened. Thus, the rules of a challenge officially being resolved have changed.
Please correct me if I am in error on this matter.
Zen Rising
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 19 Dec 1998 00:25:22 EST
Percy,
So barons can't have opinions and feelings now? Great, its immature now fer a baron ta not like a challenger and want ta do somethin' about it. Hey lets all just swing our swords get records and numbers, ranks and positions and not care! After all records must be everything. Ya defend yerself, yer own records, heaven forbid politics, feelings, and emotions ever take part in DoS.
Yeesh, someday I hope *all* people figure out DoS is about more dan just doin' moves and observing results.
~J
Date: 19 Dec 1998 00:25:22 EST
Percy,
So barons can't have opinions and feelings now? Great, its immature now fer a baron ta not like a challenger and want ta do somethin' about it. Hey lets all just swing our swords get records and numbers, ranks and positions and not care! After all records must be everything. Ya defend yerself, yer own records, heaven forbid politics, feelings, and emotions ever take part in DoS.
Yeesh, someday I hope *all* people figure out DoS is about more dan just doin' moves and observing results.
~J