From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 01:27:02 EST
"Very simply, though it is hard to imagine now, Loyals and Renegades were not so firmly trenched in their positions. Stereotypes and classifications have never before been hung on alignments. Dalamar's reign marks the beginning of political parties. There were no "ultra-loyals" who screamed conspiracy. "
I tend to agree with this statement. In my previous stay here, Athlstan was overlord, and I don't remember any of the loyalist/renegade arguments, alleged conspiracies, verbal assaults based on alignment, etc.
Zen
Challenge to the 7th
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 02:28:39 EST
Hey Roland, how about this for bitter...
If you are Roland Sal Roa, then nobody will like you, you will be a poor dueler, you will forget to bathe frequently during the year, and the stench will speak so. Your toes will be bigger than your fingers, and your eyes bigger than your ears. Your intelligence will be measured like your shoe size, and you shall eat cheese and ale every day for breakfast for the rest of your life.
If you are not Roland Sal Roa, then pat your back, and live a long happy life!
With Humor,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 17 Jan 1999 02:28:39 EST
Hey Roland, how about this for bitter...
If you are Roland Sal Roa, then nobody will like you, you will be a poor dueler, you will forget to bathe frequently during the year, and the stench will speak so. Your toes will be bigger than your fingers, and your eyes bigger than your ears. Your intelligence will be measured like your shoe size, and you shall eat cheese and ale every day for breakfast for the rest of your life.
If you are not Roland Sal Roa, then pat your back, and live a long happy life!
With Humor,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 01:00:21 EST
Announcing intentions to challenge are worth about as much as the ink used to write them. In other words, they are worth very little and generate more yawns than interest.
Challenge, or do not challenge; what you do means much more than what you say you intend to do.
(See, Drakewyn? I am equal opportunity.)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 01:00:21 EST
Announcing intentions to challenge are worth about as much as the ink used to write them. In other words, they are worth very little and generate more yawns than interest.
Challenge, or do not challenge; what you do means much more than what you say you intend to do.
(See, Drakewyn? I am equal opportunity.)
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From: foxxgrrl@aol.com (Foxxgrrl)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 11:26:11 EST
>>> To the public, friendship is seen as key in Dragoon Talanador, politics
>were seen as key in Llewys-Lathadoscia.<<
Sid, I didn't mean to say that Llewys-Lathadoscia was simply about politics, merely that it was seen that way by members of the public. I remember when a bid was made for a majority on the council (this may have been purely House Lathadoscia then, I'm not entirely positive of the specifics) and I do remember that the public did not view such a majority warmly.
~Ally
Date: 17 Jan 1999 11:26:11 EST
>>> To the public, friendship is seen as key in Dragoon Talanador, politics
>were seen as key in Llewys-Lathadoscia.<<
Sid, I didn't mean to say that Llewys-Lathadoscia was simply about politics, merely that it was seen that way by members of the public. I remember when a bid was made for a majority on the council (this may have been purely House Lathadoscia then, I'm not entirely positive of the specifics) and I do remember that the public did not view such a majority warmly.
~Ally
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 11:32:24 EST
The point that no-one has brought up yet is the numerical equation that represents a majority of the council.
In the days of Baphelocutis and Elijah's joint venture with House Llewys-Lathadoscia and Valmion's House Questrion, there were only 9 baronies to be held. Accordingly, the controlling number was 5 rings*(see footnote). Assuming one of these groups held three and there was either rumor or stated intention to acquire a majority, opposition is reasonable because they needed only 2 more.
In today's arena, there are 13 baronies. Hence, the majority number is 7*. If HDT has 3 rings. They aren't even half way there yet. To be lumped in with the Houses of the past they would need two more before opposition began to build.
I find all the arguments about stated intentions and the direction of the house to be interesting, but I can tell you this about my own thoughts. I get along well with G'nort, respect him as a duelist and have no issue with his politics (or lack thereof)... however.. I will be one of the first duelists in the arena lined up to opposed HDT the day they acquire a 6th ring. Honestly, I do not believe that this house would abuse the power associated
with holding a majority of the council, but I'm also unwilling to sit idly by, waiting to see if the power corrupts. No offense intended G'nort.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
Footnote:
In a 9 baron setup, the actual power number is six. If House ABC holds six baronies and 1 of the members is challenged, then that leaves them a majority of the votes if said baron doesn't answer the challenge. (5 ABC votes to 3 non-ABC - with only 5 barons it would be 4-4 with the Overlord casting the decision maker). Effectively making it so that no member of ABC ever need answer challenge again.
That said, I say 5 is the majority number because once 5 seats are held a 6th may be obtained without a fight. A 6th member of ABC may challenge Baron X and then fail to show for the duel. The matter goes to the council composed of 5 ABC Barons and 3 non.... hence the 5 hold a majority and award the ring to the 6th.
In the case of our current 13 baorn setup the numbers shift to 7 and 8. With 7 on the council, the 8th would be easilly gained and 8 is the true power number.
Date: 17 Jan 1999 11:32:24 EST
The point that no-one has brought up yet is the numerical equation that represents a majority of the council.
In the days of Baphelocutis and Elijah's joint venture with House Llewys-Lathadoscia and Valmion's House Questrion, there were only 9 baronies to be held. Accordingly, the controlling number was 5 rings*(see footnote). Assuming one of these groups held three and there was either rumor or stated intention to acquire a majority, opposition is reasonable because they needed only 2 more.
In today's arena, there are 13 baronies. Hence, the majority number is 7*. If HDT has 3 rings. They aren't even half way there yet. To be lumped in with the Houses of the past they would need two more before opposition began to build.
I find all the arguments about stated intentions and the direction of the house to be interesting, but I can tell you this about my own thoughts. I get along well with G'nort, respect him as a duelist and have no issue with his politics (or lack thereof)... however.. I will be one of the first duelists in the arena lined up to opposed HDT the day they acquire a 6th ring. Honestly, I do not believe that this house would abuse the power associated
with holding a majority of the council, but I'm also unwilling to sit idly by, waiting to see if the power corrupts. No offense intended G'nort.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
Footnote:
In a 9 baron setup, the actual power number is six. If House ABC holds six baronies and 1 of the members is challenged, then that leaves them a majority of the votes if said baron doesn't answer the challenge. (5 ABC votes to 3 non-ABC - with only 5 barons it would be 4-4 with the Overlord casting the decision maker). Effectively making it so that no member of ABC ever need answer challenge again.
That said, I say 5 is the majority number because once 5 seats are held a 6th may be obtained without a fight. A 6th member of ABC may challenge Baron X and then fail to show for the duel. The matter goes to the council composed of 5 ABC Barons and 3 non.... hence the 5 hold a majority and award the ring to the 6th.
In the case of our current 13 baorn setup the numbers shift to 7 and 8. With 7 on the council, the 8th would be easilly gained and 8 is the true power number.
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From: rolandsal@aol.com (Roland Sal)
Date: 16 Jan 1999 23:52:42 EST
Togetherness while retaining individuality has always been a major goal within the House, and it is a place which allows and encourages growth, both in
skill and in personal areas.
Sorry, I have to be bitter for the sake of the new people. Safe to say that no true dueling house that is currently standing offers that. Now, before you go saying that your experience with Houses have been just wonderful and great, allow me to shed some light on it, from my view and opinions ONLY. Got any sort of problem with they way I have experienced things, I will gladly sit you down and fill you
in with all of the details. Say on Saturday night, during dueling hours? We won't duel, just talk, and talk, and talk....
Anyway.
Not one House standing suits me, not one house standing could suit my needs as a political duelist within these rings.
Why?
House Phoenix, while containing some of the best men I have never known, lacks in the regard that I wish not to make an enemy of the current loyals, whom I likewise consider friends.
House Oakenshield, led by a fine duelist. What House DT says they offer, House Oakenshield provides in full. They do support Dalamar but they tend to be overly family oriented for my tastes.
House Dragoon-Talandor, possibly the biggest dueling house in the arena. Why? The popularity of the duelists. Drakewyn and G'nort could pull in a great number of people all by themselves, and have. However, they lack order, or lacked order when I was around. And the individuality they offered was the down fall of my perception of them. It was a learning experience for me, one of uncomfortable situations and smudged truths. Granted, many have
come to love this House, and I hold know ill will to them, some of them are good friends. However, their policies tend to be too vague for me, and the promise of being an equal among them just wasn't a reality for me.
Let's see, what is left?
I think I covered all of the current ones, so I will comment on one's I have seen in my time here.
House Rising, a group of newer duelists (with a few vets thrown in) whom were eager to get their feet wet in the politics of the ring. Whom were also eager to get as many members as possible. Whether inner problems or some other mess that caused the House's downfall, I believe the House was nothing but a learning experience for all of them.
House Questrion (the second time around), was something worth looking into. Strong history with a solid group of leaders. Granted, they weren't the current stars but they had the pull to get almost anyone should they wish. However, they did have a history of opposing the loyals, as well as an etched in stone leadership it appeared.
My solution to all of this? If you wish to be apart of something grander than just the duels. Join one of the three dueling houses, a dueling team, come stay in the Praxeum, or just gather up a group of your friends, cobble together ideas and views and make your own dueling house. There is no law saying you can't and I believe it is a good way to express unity and togetherness in the rings. More than any group of individuals meeting for a
tournament or special event.
Okay, done rambling and done with House talk. Huma, insult someone so I can have reason to get out of the house more.
Rol
Date: 16 Jan 1999 23:52:42 EST
Togetherness while retaining individuality has always been a major goal within the House, and it is a place which allows and encourages growth, both in
skill and in personal areas.
Sorry, I have to be bitter for the sake of the new people. Safe to say that no true dueling house that is currently standing offers that. Now, before you go saying that your experience with Houses have been just wonderful and great, allow me to shed some light on it, from my view and opinions ONLY. Got any sort of problem with they way I have experienced things, I will gladly sit you down and fill you
in with all of the details. Say on Saturday night, during dueling hours? We won't duel, just talk, and talk, and talk....
Anyway.
Not one House standing suits me, not one house standing could suit my needs as a political duelist within these rings.
Why?
House Phoenix, while containing some of the best men I have never known, lacks in the regard that I wish not to make an enemy of the current loyals, whom I likewise consider friends.
House Oakenshield, led by a fine duelist. What House DT says they offer, House Oakenshield provides in full. They do support Dalamar but they tend to be overly family oriented for my tastes.
House Dragoon-Talandor, possibly the biggest dueling house in the arena. Why? The popularity of the duelists. Drakewyn and G'nort could pull in a great number of people all by themselves, and have. However, they lack order, or lacked order when I was around. And the individuality they offered was the down fall of my perception of them. It was a learning experience for me, one of uncomfortable situations and smudged truths. Granted, many have
come to love this House, and I hold know ill will to them, some of them are good friends. However, their policies tend to be too vague for me, and the promise of being an equal among them just wasn't a reality for me.
Let's see, what is left?
I think I covered all of the current ones, so I will comment on one's I have seen in my time here.
House Rising, a group of newer duelists (with a few vets thrown in) whom were eager to get their feet wet in the politics of the ring. Whom were also eager to get as many members as possible. Whether inner problems or some other mess that caused the House's downfall, I believe the House was nothing but a learning experience for all of them.
House Questrion (the second time around), was something worth looking into. Strong history with a solid group of leaders. Granted, they weren't the current stars but they had the pull to get almost anyone should they wish. However, they did have a history of opposing the loyals, as well as an etched in stone leadership it appeared.
My solution to all of this? If you wish to be apart of something grander than just the duels. Join one of the three dueling houses, a dueling team, come stay in the Praxeum, or just gather up a group of your friends, cobble together ideas and views and make your own dueling house. There is no law saying you can't and I believe it is a good way to express unity and togetherness in the rings. More than any group of individuals meeting for a
tournament or special event.
Okay, done rambling and done with House talk. Huma, insult someone so I can have reason to get out of the house more.
Rol
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From: lorduziel@aol.com (Lord Uziel)
Date: 17 Jan 1999 17:17:08 EST
Morgan,
Pardon me for mentioning it, but you've been little but a petty, uppity, unsufferable bore since you gained your title. And while you hold it well, and are a well respected member of the community, you of all people should know that I do not require your superior school marmish instruction on the how, what and the when in this place.
Intentions mean much, and words are actions to some, as I rarely state anything that I do not intend to do. Should others have similar values...then mayhaps they responded with more than a yawn.
Do me the respect of not randomly flaming me on the boards because you have little else to do. One would hate to hold you in the same regard as do many hold Madame Starfare. And the pettiness and in fighting within this community is the one thing that I have grown highly overtired of. As Zen said in another post, and its something I agree with...this place wasn't like this not to long ago. And personally I'd rather get back to drinking and
dueling and adventuring with friends...than sitting around watching everyone play the *better than you* game.
That said, have a fine day,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of RhyDin
~Warlord and Once Baron of the Seventh
Date: 17 Jan 1999 17:17:08 EST
Morgan,
Pardon me for mentioning it, but you've been little but a petty, uppity, unsufferable bore since you gained your title. And while you hold it well, and are a well respected member of the community, you of all people should know that I do not require your superior school marmish instruction on the how, what and the when in this place.
Intentions mean much, and words are actions to some, as I rarely state anything that I do not intend to do. Should others have similar values...then mayhaps they responded with more than a yawn.
Do me the respect of not randomly flaming me on the boards because you have little else to do. One would hate to hold you in the same regard as do many hold Madame Starfare. And the pettiness and in fighting within this community is the one thing that I have grown highly overtired of. As Zen said in another post, and its something I agree with...this place wasn't like this not to long ago. And personally I'd rather get back to drinking and
dueling and adventuring with friends...than sitting around watching everyone play the *better than you* game.
That said, have a fine day,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of RhyDin
~Warlord and Once Baron of the Seventh
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 10:53:35 EST
One does not have to do you the respect of anything. You write your words publicly; be man enough to accept response to them even if they do not stroke your sensitive ego.
Date: 18 Jan 1999 10:53:35 EST
One does not have to do you the respect of anything. You write your words publicly; be man enough to accept response to them even if they do not stroke your sensitive ego.
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 16:06:47 EST
Adonai
Pardon me for mentioning it but, thee hae been little but petulant, insufferable, choleric, bilious, bombastic, much given to fustian, pompous to the brink of bathos. Thine epidermis wouldst seem to be exiguous, thine nescience, brobdingnagian, the cartilaginous framework resting atop thine vertebrae, grumous, and tis rumored thee aire parsimonious. Thine splenetic graniloquence since thee were removed ast wearer of the Seventh ast well ast thine
displays of parti pris, leads one to ponder wherefore annaone wouldst hae called thine identity into question. Thine piddling, piffling trumpery dost bring to mind the distinct sound of the braying of a four footed hoofed herbivore.
Not random at all,
Jonalyn Starfare.
Date: 18 Jan 1999 16:06:47 EST
Adonai
Pardon me for mentioning it but, thee hae been little but petulant, insufferable, choleric, bilious, bombastic, much given to fustian, pompous to the brink of bathos. Thine epidermis wouldst seem to be exiguous, thine nescience, brobdingnagian, the cartilaginous framework resting atop thine vertebrae, grumous, and tis rumored thee aire parsimonious. Thine splenetic graniloquence since thee were removed ast wearer of the Seventh ast well ast thine
displays of parti pris, leads one to ponder wherefore annaone wouldst hae called thine identity into question. Thine piddling, piffling trumpery dost bring to mind the distinct sound of the braying of a four footed hoofed herbivore.
Not random at all,
Jonalyn Starfare.
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:07:18 EST
Err...ye fergot choleric...oh, wait..nae...check..
::continues downt he amusing list::
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:07:18 EST
Err...ye fergot choleric...oh, wait..nae...check..
::continues downt he amusing list::
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:47:50 EST
>>Sid, I didn't mean to say that Llewys-Lathadoscia was simply about politics, merely that it was seen that way by members of the public. I remember when a bid was made for a majority on the council (this may have been purely House Lathadoscia then, I'm not entirely positive of the specifics) and I do remember that the public did not view such a majority warmly. <<
Ah, I see and I understand. And frankly I look back on such a time with great sadness. The Community decided to place their judgement on the House, and apparantly felt that the feelings of those *within* the House were irrelevant. Were anyone to have asked me, or any other member of the former House then, they would have found out that politics was mainly a side venture (one participated in by the individuals and not necessarily the House on a
whole).
~Sidartha
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:47:50 EST
>>Sid, I didn't mean to say that Llewys-Lathadoscia was simply about politics, merely that it was seen that way by members of the public. I remember when a bid was made for a majority on the council (this may have been purely House Lathadoscia then, I'm not entirely positive of the specifics) and I do remember that the public did not view such a majority warmly. <<
Ah, I see and I understand. And frankly I look back on such a time with great sadness. The Community decided to place their judgement on the House, and apparantly felt that the feelings of those *within* the House were irrelevant. Were anyone to have asked me, or any other member of the former House then, they would have found out that politics was mainly a side venture (one participated in by the individuals and not necessarily the House on a
whole).
~Sidartha
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:55:12 EST
>>I tend to agree with this statement. In my previous stay here, Athlstan was overlord, and I don't remember any of the loyalist/renegade arguments, alleged conspiracies, verbal assaults based on alignment, etc.<<
You should have been here during Leto's reign. In some ways, it'd make Dal's reign look like a garden party.
~Sid
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:55:12 EST
>>I tend to agree with this statement. In my previous stay here, Athlstan was overlord, and I don't remember any of the loyalist/renegade arguments, alleged conspiracies, verbal assaults based on alignment, etc.<<
You should have been here during Leto's reign. In some ways, it'd make Dal's reign look like a garden party.
~Sid
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:52:09 EST
>>"If you support Dalamar, your actions will be explained, excused, forgiven, or outright ignored. If you oppose him, they will be condemned, scorned, submitted to the harshest scrutiny, and always seen in the worst possible light.<<
Strange, I seem to remember those who were for Dalamar being called blind, ignorant, and basically treated like the worst sort of scum to ever pass through the Arena. Anything coming out to Dal's favor has been seen as some sort of conspiracy, and anyone supporting Dal was seen as the conspirators.
If you call that being "excused, forgiven or outright ignored", I'll eat my sword.
~Sidartha Elgarette
Date: 18 Jan 1999 19:52:09 EST
>>"If you support Dalamar, your actions will be explained, excused, forgiven, or outright ignored. If you oppose him, they will be condemned, scorned, submitted to the harshest scrutiny, and always seen in the worst possible light.<<
Strange, I seem to remember those who were for Dalamar being called blind, ignorant, and basically treated like the worst sort of scum to ever pass through the Arena. Anything coming out to Dal's favor has been seen as some sort of conspiracy, and anyone supporting Dal was seen as the conspirators.
If you call that being "excused, forgiven or outright ignored", I'll eat my sword.
~Sidartha Elgarette
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From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 18 Jan 1999 20:40:41 EST
Sid~~~
I wouldn't consider myself a *supporter* of Dalamar, but I wanted to say......
Well and Truly Said.....
Khrys
Date: 18 Jan 1999 20:40:41 EST
Sid~~~
I wouldn't consider myself a *supporter* of Dalamar, but I wanted to say......
Well and Truly Said.....
Khrys