From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 21:57:23 EDT
>Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would
>she pursue the matter with such vigor?
Here's a better question. If a friend of Jona's whom you deem dishonorable makes an invalid challenge, would you not hope the arena tars and feathers the person?
I don't think it's wise to point out or hint that Jona is being a hypocrite, because if it weren't your former teacher being scrutinized, and it were someone you disliked, you'd be hoping justice be done to them.
I can't speak for Jona, this is just my view. I don't think Jona would stand by silently and let an invalid challenge go through.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Issue of Dueler's Rights
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 22:41:59 EDT
>>Here's a better question. If a friend of Jona's whom you deem dishonorable makes an invalid challenge, would you not hope the arena tars and feathers the person?<<
Now we tar and feather people for making mistakes? Mistakes happen. Consequences exist, of course, depending on the decisions of the sport's authorities. However, community assault on someone who makes a mistake is not precisely a reasonable consequence.
The decision should be made by the authorities of the sport, not the community. If the authorities decide to hang someone, it is an execution. If the community takes it upon themselves, it is a lynching. Think about it.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 29 Jun 1999 22:41:59 EDT
>>Here's a better question. If a friend of Jona's whom you deem dishonorable makes an invalid challenge, would you not hope the arena tars and feathers the person?<<
Now we tar and feather people for making mistakes? Mistakes happen. Consequences exist, of course, depending on the decisions of the sport's authorities. However, community assault on someone who makes a mistake is not precisely a reasonable consequence.
The decision should be made by the authorities of the sport, not the community. If the authorities decide to hang someone, it is an execution. If the community takes it upon themselves, it is a lynching. Think about it.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 00:29:02 EDT
Madame Elgarette,
Tis only in thine narrow and senile mind that thee wouldst ask such a foolish question to whit: "Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would she pursue the matter with such vigor? "
If thee hae nae the wit nor the intelligence ta be aware I hae questioned anna what hae issued improper challenge 'o which I hae become aware, tis more be the pity for thine blindness an' ignorance.
I find if utterly disgusting that such flouting of the long established and well known rules of engagement by anna warlord be treated ast a mere mistake. If thee aire too simple minded to realize that such a flouting of the rules of engagement ist a detriment to the integrity of the duels ast well ast a slap in the face to every single duelist in this community, more indeed be the pity.
T'was indeed Ecore himself what decried repeatedly the precipitous and flawed issuances of challenges, yet whined like a whipped cur when he wast caught out and in a fit of pique and fear didst nae hae the courage ta face the Council.
A more logical and interesting question wouldst be why thee wouldst question mine motives, when in point of fact, t'was Cletus Ganderfald and Var Medici-Giovanni what didst first question the validity of the challenge. Or perhaps more interesting that thee dinna question Madame Silvertree whose duty it was to see that challenges be proper. Tis amusing thee dinna make such utterly ignorant and childish comments unto either of those gentleman or ask
of Madame Silvertree her motives, that ist presuming there be anna motive atall. How utterly pitiable though nae a surprise coming from thee.
Tis more to the point that thee dinna seem ta consider the integrity of the rings but only thineself in thine comments made unto Huma in answer to his question unto thee. Much ast Ecore hast made plain his selfish desires, thee make thine own plain. Perhaps thee teach thine bairns that ast long ast they aire nae 'caught' with their hands in the cookie jar but only seen with the crumbs upon their chins tis all well and fione. Ast well, Ecore's hand
wast nae caught in the cookie jar, but the crumbs be upon his chin.
Ecore ta this verra day denies that he didst take the Eighth Ring by the use of an unearned maneuver. Yet the history of that eve and the missives upon this cork ast well ast witnesses to that event know elsewise. If he canna admit to that well witnessed 'mistake' I hae nae doubt he hae hoped this 'mistake' with few ta witness it wouldst permit him to hold that which wast nae rightly earned. Thee may wish that all hae stood silently by whilst this
travesty wast committed. Tis well that there be those of courage what stood forth and didst investigate the matter. Tis a pity, Madame, thee aire so shallow a person that thee canna see that.
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 30 Jun 1999 00:29:02 EDT
Madame Elgarette,
Tis only in thine narrow and senile mind that thee wouldst ask such a foolish question to whit: "Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would she pursue the matter with such vigor? "
If thee hae nae the wit nor the intelligence ta be aware I hae questioned anna what hae issued improper challenge 'o which I hae become aware, tis more be the pity for thine blindness an' ignorance.
I find if utterly disgusting that such flouting of the long established and well known rules of engagement by anna warlord be treated ast a mere mistake. If thee aire too simple minded to realize that such a flouting of the rules of engagement ist a detriment to the integrity of the duels ast well ast a slap in the face to every single duelist in this community, more indeed be the pity.
T'was indeed Ecore himself what decried repeatedly the precipitous and flawed issuances of challenges, yet whined like a whipped cur when he wast caught out and in a fit of pique and fear didst nae hae the courage ta face the Council.
A more logical and interesting question wouldst be why thee wouldst question mine motives, when in point of fact, t'was Cletus Ganderfald and Var Medici-Giovanni what didst first question the validity of the challenge. Or perhaps more interesting that thee dinna question Madame Silvertree whose duty it was to see that challenges be proper. Tis amusing thee dinna make such utterly ignorant and childish comments unto either of those gentleman or ask
of Madame Silvertree her motives, that ist presuming there be anna motive atall. How utterly pitiable though nae a surprise coming from thee.
Tis more to the point that thee dinna seem ta consider the integrity of the rings but only thineself in thine comments made unto Huma in answer to his question unto thee. Much ast Ecore hast made plain his selfish desires, thee make thine own plain. Perhaps thee teach thine bairns that ast long ast they aire nae 'caught' with their hands in the cookie jar but only seen with the crumbs upon their chins tis all well and fione. Ast well, Ecore's hand
wast nae caught in the cookie jar, but the crumbs be upon his chin.
Ecore ta this verra day denies that he didst take the Eighth Ring by the use of an unearned maneuver. Yet the history of that eve and the missives upon this cork ast well ast witnesses to that event know elsewise. If he canna admit to that well witnessed 'mistake' I hae nae doubt he hae hoped this 'mistake' with few ta witness it wouldst permit him to hold that which wast nae rightly earned. Thee may wish that all hae stood silently by whilst this
travesty wast committed. Tis well that there be those of courage what stood forth and didst investigate the matter. Tis a pity, Madame, thee aire so shallow a person that thee canna see that.
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: agrenish@aol.com (Agrenish)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 01:07:04 EDT
>>Societies, in general, frown upon those who break reasonable rules to get ahead.<<
Then why does the "Test Of Worthness" exisit, little lady?
>>Fine, whatever, you all can think what you want, cause I give up. While you may think I being self-centered...<<
If you gave up, why did you continue to write?
Silly people write silly things, and they're on seperate sides.
Agrenish Preescott
~It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him~
Date: 30 Jun 1999 01:07:04 EDT
>>Societies, in general, frown upon those who break reasonable rules to get ahead.<<
Then why does the "Test Of Worthness" exisit, little lady?
>>Fine, whatever, you all can think what you want, cause I give up. While you may think I being self-centered...<<
If you gave up, why did you continue to write?
Silly people write silly things, and they're on seperate sides.
Agrenish Preescott
~It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him~
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 01:39:20 EDT
To whom it may concern...
To say I had any motives in validating the Warlord Ecore's challenge other than the Baron Dragonsblade's request that I do so swiftly... is sheer folly.
I realize that no one is accusing me of such, but I am writing this to put paid to any rumors before they start.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 30 Jun 1999 01:39:20 EDT
To whom it may concern...
To say I had any motives in validating the Warlord Ecore's challenge other than the Baron Dragonsblade's request that I do so swiftly... is sheer folly.
I realize that no one is accusing me of such, but I am writing this to put paid to any rumors before they start.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:06:10 EDT
Ecore,
Grow up. Ya blew it. Live and die with it love.
Summer
Date: 30 Jun 1999 02:06:10 EDT
Ecore,
Grow up. Ya blew it. Live and die with it love.
Summer
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From: karnafexx@aol.com (Karnafexx)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 06:07:39 EDT
My old Special Forces commander would have called this whole mess one big Charlie Foxtrot. If you know what it means in the military, then you know exactly my thoughts on how this whole discussion has gone.
Lets give it up, get drunk, and get on with our lives.
BRK
Date: 30 Jun 1999 06:07:39 EDT
My old Special Forces commander would have called this whole mess one big Charlie Foxtrot. If you know what it means in the military, then you know exactly my thoughts on how this whole discussion has gone.
Lets give it up, get drunk, and get on with our lives.
BRK
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 10:39:25 EDT
"Then why does the "Test Of Worthness" exisit, little lady?"
Don't be obtuse, future cabana boytoy o'mine. I know you are brighter than that comment shows you to be.
Love and kisses,
M.
Date: 30 Jun 1999 10:39:25 EDT
"Then why does the "Test Of Worthness" exisit, little lady?"
Don't be obtuse, future cabana boytoy o'mine. I know you are brighter than that comment shows you to be.
Love and kisses,
M.
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:07:38 EDT
>>Here's a better question. If a friend of Jona's whom you deem dishonorable makes an invalid challenge, would you not hope the arena tars and feathers the person?
I don't think it's wise to point out or hint that Jona is being a hypocrite, because if it weren't your former teacher being scrutinized, and it were someone you disliked, you'd be hoping justice be done to them.
I can't speak for Jona, this is just my view. I don't think Jona would stand by silently and let an invalid challenge go through.<<
Var~
I make no innuendos or subtle hints, I am simply asking the question, knowing each person who makes a statement, yea or nay, will also post their reasons for coming to the conclusion. As I stated, I am still pondering the question myself and I felt the need to ask the question to hear all reasons and then come up with my own.
Take that as an attack, if you will. I assure you, until I form an opinion on this, I have not yet made one.
~Sidartha Elgarette
Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:07:38 EDT
>>Here's a better question. If a friend of Jona's whom you deem dishonorable makes an invalid challenge, would you not hope the arena tars and feathers the person?
I don't think it's wise to point out or hint that Jona is being a hypocrite, because if it weren't your former teacher being scrutinized, and it were someone you disliked, you'd be hoping justice be done to them.
I can't speak for Jona, this is just my view. I don't think Jona would stand by silently and let an invalid challenge go through.<<
Var~
I make no innuendos or subtle hints, I am simply asking the question, knowing each person who makes a statement, yea or nay, will also post their reasons for coming to the conclusion. As I stated, I am still pondering the question myself and I felt the need to ask the question to hear all reasons and then come up with my own.
Take that as an attack, if you will. I assure you, until I form an opinion on this, I have not yet made one.
~Sidartha Elgarette
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:10:56 EDT
Jonalyn~
In response to your lengthy missive, I will repeat the words I wrote to Var.
I make no innuendos. I simply ask questions. Take that as an insult if you wish, but you should well know by now that I do not use subtlety when I make insult.
Patienly waiting to honest, unassuming answers to the query,
~Sidartha Elgarette
Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:10:56 EDT
Jonalyn~
In response to your lengthy missive, I will repeat the words I wrote to Var.
I make no innuendos. I simply ask questions. Take that as an insult if you wish, but you should well know by now that I do not use subtlety when I make insult.
Patienly waiting to honest, unassuming answers to the query,
~Sidartha Elgarette
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:12:54 EDT
>>Lets give it up, get drunk, and get on with our lives.<<
Sounds like a decently good idea to me. After I get more than one answer, that is.
With much humor,
~Sid
Date: 30 Jun 1999 20:12:54 EDT
>>Lets give it up, get drunk, and get on with our lives.<<
Sounds like a decently good idea to me. After I get more than one answer, that is.
With much humor,
~Sid
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 01 Jul 1999 01:47:33 EDT
>I make no innuendos or subtle hints, I am simply asking the question, knowing
>each person who makes a statement, yea or nay, will also post their reasons
>for coming to the conclusion. As I stated, I am still pondering the question
>myself and I felt the need to ask the question to hear all reasons and then
>come up with my own.
I will be blunt when I say I still question your motives.
Of all the people who have written about this, you seem to single out Jona. Then again, why would you care as to whether or not Jona would pursue this if it were a friend of hers? If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking the community if you think she's a hypocrite?
I've read many posts back and forth between you and Jona. It's no secret there is bad blood between you two.
I simply have a feeling the question was asked with bad blood. If you wish to insist you meant no attack and hold no opinion, then I guess only time will tell. I'm going to let this poor horse rest in peace, though. I've said my thoughts.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 01 Jul 1999 01:47:33 EDT
>I make no innuendos or subtle hints, I am simply asking the question, knowing
>each person who makes a statement, yea or nay, will also post their reasons
>for coming to the conclusion. As I stated, I am still pondering the question
>myself and I felt the need to ask the question to hear all reasons and then
>come up with my own.
I will be blunt when I say I still question your motives.
Of all the people who have written about this, you seem to single out Jona. Then again, why would you care as to whether or not Jona would pursue this if it were a friend of hers? If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking the community if you think she's a hypocrite?
I've read many posts back and forth between you and Jona. It's no secret there is bad blood between you two.
I simply have a feeling the question was asked with bad blood. If you wish to insist you meant no attack and hold no opinion, then I guess only time will tell. I'm going to let this poor horse rest in peace, though. I've said my thoughts.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: agrenish@aol.com (Agrenish)
Date: 01 Jul 1999 02:17:09 EDT
>>Societies, in general, frown upon those who break reasonable rules to get ahead.<<
Morgan said that.
"Then why does the "Test Of Worthness" exisit, little lady?"
I said that.
>>Don't be obtuse, future cabana boytoy o'mine. I know you are brighter than that comment shows you to be.<<
Morgan said that...
Allright, the explainable properties of frowing upon people who break reasonable rules to get ahead. This can be anything from simple stealing to a highly sophisticated take over of some castle. The reasonable rules are, no stealing (Because, it ain't yours) to not take over the form of government (Because, it ain't yours).
Of course, what happens when breaking a reasonable rule is suddenly allowed? This was the case I attempted to say in... (Counts) ten words.
If you don't steal because it ain't yours, then you don't defend something that ain't yours. Right?
Allright... moving along...
This could be used in a reverse case as well. The Overlord is the supposed leader. As much as we all know that this is a joke in this sport, we'll allow the illusion to sustain, in all of its weakness.
If you don't take over the goverment because you didn't build it, then why do you take it away from someone else? Is this nothing more than stealing? So, in this case, all challenges are nothing more than a fair act of theft. You are allowed to take something that ain't yours away from someone else, merely because the rules allow it.
So what happens when we push these two elements together?
Well, lets say someone challenges for the crown, since I am doing just that, we'll call this person... Humas. We'll call the Overlord... Liptin.
Now, the Lupton chooses the "Test of Wrothiness". We'll call that champion, Varro. And the Huma gets someone to step in for him, we'll call that guy Gnort Ball.
So this is what we have...
Humis is trying to take the Crown from Liptin, so in essence, he is trying to take over the government. Varro comes along and trys to stop Humis from stealing the title by interferance. He is defending something that is not his, so is stealing (By the virtue of; it ain't yours, don't (----) with it).
Gnort Ball comes along and interfers with this even further by stepping in, in the thieve's name by fighting another thief. And this is all for because Humis is tryng to steal a title that Liptin stole from someone else.
Now...
Someone might make the argument that since Liptin and Humis have to accept the intercessions from Varro and Gnort Ball, that there is no act of theft, it is in essence, borrowing.
But let us look at it from a differant angle. Have you ever been in an argument with someone, and that person's friend started arguing with you, and then one of your friend started arguing with that person's friend? Pretty annoying ain't it? Can't the two people who are fighting, fight themselves?
So if they are not thieves, then they are annoying boys who are trying to focus some attention on themselves because they havn't exerted enough energy that particular night.
This may be 'obtuse', but damnit, at least it's backed up by some sort of rational thought.
Of course, not that I find anything morally wrong with any of this crap, if I looked at it this way for long enough, I'd use the ToW if I'm ever the Overlord.
And Morgan... I like... I'm sorry, let me rephrase that... I love what the future is shaping up to be. ::Draws in a smily face::
See you when the sun shines in.
Your lord of dominance...
Agrenish Preescott
~It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him~
Date: 01 Jul 1999 02:17:09 EDT
>>Societies, in general, frown upon those who break reasonable rules to get ahead.<<
Morgan said that.
"Then why does the "Test Of Worthness" exisit, little lady?"
I said that.
>>Don't be obtuse, future cabana boytoy o'mine. I know you are brighter than that comment shows you to be.<<
Morgan said that...
Allright, the explainable properties of frowing upon people who break reasonable rules to get ahead. This can be anything from simple stealing to a highly sophisticated take over of some castle. The reasonable rules are, no stealing (Because, it ain't yours) to not take over the form of government (Because, it ain't yours).
Of course, what happens when breaking a reasonable rule is suddenly allowed? This was the case I attempted to say in... (Counts) ten words.
If you don't steal because it ain't yours, then you don't defend something that ain't yours. Right?
Allright... moving along...
This could be used in a reverse case as well. The Overlord is the supposed leader. As much as we all know that this is a joke in this sport, we'll allow the illusion to sustain, in all of its weakness.
If you don't take over the goverment because you didn't build it, then why do you take it away from someone else? Is this nothing more than stealing? So, in this case, all challenges are nothing more than a fair act of theft. You are allowed to take something that ain't yours away from someone else, merely because the rules allow it.
So what happens when we push these two elements together?
Well, lets say someone challenges for the crown, since I am doing just that, we'll call this person... Humas. We'll call the Overlord... Liptin.
Now, the Lupton chooses the "Test of Wrothiness". We'll call that champion, Varro. And the Huma gets someone to step in for him, we'll call that guy Gnort Ball.
So this is what we have...
Humis is trying to take the Crown from Liptin, so in essence, he is trying to take over the government. Varro comes along and trys to stop Humis from stealing the title by interferance. He is defending something that is not his, so is stealing (By the virtue of; it ain't yours, don't (----) with it).
Gnort Ball comes along and interfers with this even further by stepping in, in the thieve's name by fighting another thief. And this is all for because Humis is tryng to steal a title that Liptin stole from someone else.
Now...
Someone might make the argument that since Liptin and Humis have to accept the intercessions from Varro and Gnort Ball, that there is no act of theft, it is in essence, borrowing.
But let us look at it from a differant angle. Have you ever been in an argument with someone, and that person's friend started arguing with you, and then one of your friend started arguing with that person's friend? Pretty annoying ain't it? Can't the two people who are fighting, fight themselves?
So if they are not thieves, then they are annoying boys who are trying to focus some attention on themselves because they havn't exerted enough energy that particular night.
This may be 'obtuse', but damnit, at least it's backed up by some sort of rational thought.
Of course, not that I find anything morally wrong with any of this crap, if I looked at it this way for long enough, I'd use the ToW if I'm ever the Overlord.
And Morgan... I like... I'm sorry, let me rephrase that... I love what the future is shaping up to be. ::Draws in a smily face::
See you when the sun shines in.
Your lord of dominance...
Agrenish Preescott
~It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him~
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 01 Jul 1999 02:47:25 EDT
>>I will be blunt when I say I still question your motives.<<
You are free to do so.
>>Of all the people who have written about this, you seem to single out Jona. Then again, why would you care as to whether or not Jona would pursue this if it were a friend of hers?<<
It had seemed to me that Jonalyn was the front runner of this, which is neither good nor bad in and of itself.
I care, because I care. I just want to know others' opinion on the subject.
>>If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking the community if you think she's a hypocrite?<<
Actually, I'm asking them what *they* think, not what I think.
>> I've read many posts back and forth between you and Jona. It's no secret there is bad blood between you two.<<
You'd also notice that I have used no innuendo before. Why should I now?
>>I simply have a feeling the question was asked with bad blood.<<
Understandable. I certainly haven't given you any different impression, other than my word.
>>If you wish to insist you meant no attack and hold no opinion, then I guess only time will tell.<<
I also said that I had yet to form an opinion on the matter, having decided to weigh the different sides of the situation. So, I hope this doesn't mean that when I make a decision later, should it be what you think it's going to be, that you'll be calling me a liar and a hypocrite after I said that I hadn't come to an opinion yet.
~Sidartha
Date: 01 Jul 1999 02:47:25 EDT
>>I will be blunt when I say I still question your motives.<<
You are free to do so.
>>Of all the people who have written about this, you seem to single out Jona. Then again, why would you care as to whether or not Jona would pursue this if it were a friend of hers?<<
It had seemed to me that Jonalyn was the front runner of this, which is neither good nor bad in and of itself.
I care, because I care. I just want to know others' opinion on the subject.
>>If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking the community if you think she's a hypocrite?<<
Actually, I'm asking them what *they* think, not what I think.
>> I've read many posts back and forth between you and Jona. It's no secret there is bad blood between you two.<<
You'd also notice that I have used no innuendo before. Why should I now?
>>I simply have a feeling the question was asked with bad blood.<<
Understandable. I certainly haven't given you any different impression, other than my word.
>>If you wish to insist you meant no attack and hold no opinion, then I guess only time will tell.<<
I also said that I had yet to form an opinion on the matter, having decided to weigh the different sides of the situation. So, I hope this doesn't mean that when I make a decision later, should it be what you think it's going to be, that you'll be calling me a liar and a hypocrite after I said that I hadn't come to an opinion yet.
~Sidartha
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 01 Jul 1999 04:41:23 EDT
::Hits himself in the forehead, very hard::
>If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking
>the community if you think she's a hypocrite?
::Crosses out the words, seeing how stupid the wording was, he tries to fix it:: If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking the community if THEY think she's a hypocrite?
::Wanting to let it rest, he just groans to himself:: I better check my words more carefully next time.
Date: 01 Jul 1999 04:41:23 EDT
::Hits himself in the forehead, very hard::
>If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking
>the community if you think she's a hypocrite?
::Crosses out the words, seeing how stupid the wording was, he tries to fix it:: If you are not hinting that you think she is a hypocrite, are you asking the community if THEY think she's a hypocrite?
::Wanting to let it rest, he just groans to himself:: I better check my words more carefully next time.