From: elijahbasiauhr@aol.com (Elijah Basia Uhr)
Date: 09 Jul 2000 05:16:54 EDT
Greetings my fellow dueling comrades,
By the title of this posting to the corkboard you can assume the topic of this thread of dialogue I am interested in starting. I sometimes find it frustrating to see someone hurry up and use their challenge ability before an end of the cycle, and as well enter the end of cycle Warlord's tournement, trying to play the odds as best they can with opportunity to achieve title. I find this slightly annoying for several reasons. For instance say their
challenge isn't scheduled until after the Warlord's tourney would conclude, and yet they win a prize in the tourney. They have wasted the time that someone else could have used to challenge the paritcular title in question in which the challenge has now become voided since the challenger got title by other means. Or the confusion and the disrespect of the officials time and effort they put into organizing a Warlord's tourney and seeding entrants,
then have to listen to someone who just won a title by challenge who still wants to particpate in the tournement. For instance Lupton won a Barony and still wanted to particpate in the Warlord's tourney he was registered and confirmed to partcipate in but was denied because he won the ring already. Or for instance the fact that Ellisa was allowed to partcipate in the recent tag-team tourney even though she just won a Barony the night before. Two
similiar instances, too different allowal of partcipation. Some would say Ellisa wasn't officially a Baron because the Standings weren't released yet, but still she showed up to the tourney wearing her newly earned Baron's ring. Yet, I remember when Xenograg, or perhaps someone else, was allowed to be involved in an Intercession utilizing their new Baron rights before the Standings were released. It seems there is no consistency in how this
situation is handled, which can be frustrating and seem unfair to other duelers not directly involved. Though that is another issue from my main interest to debate here.
I think it might be an interesting concept if the officials allowed a single dueler to hold multiple titles at once. I think the idea would be interesting if it were allowed to happen the following way. A dueler could only challenge for one title, however, they could still enter tourneys while holding a title and if they won a prize, they could still hold their orignal title plus hold the prize title. With some slight adjustments. For instance
if a Baron won an Intercession free shot at Overlord, if they beat the Overlord, they would still trade titles as per normal rules. If the Overlord won the Intercession free shot, then they could negate the threat to their holding of the crown. If let's say the 8th Baron's ring were vacant and the holder of the 5th Baron's won the prize to choose the 8th ring, they would then be considered to hold both the 8th and 5th Baron rings. If the Overlord
won the choice of holding the 8th Baron's he would hold both the Overlord crown and the 8th Baron's ring. So if a Warlord entered a tourney and challenged for title at the same time, similiar to Lupton and Ellisa, and they were successful in both conditions, why not let them hold multiple titles? Have they not earned the prowess of such accomplishment?
I think this would work in a way that didn't promote title hungary duelers from challenging as many titles as soon as possible. Even with challenging only once per cycle per Barony, a dueler would take a long time to grab hold of all the titles to themselves. However, I think the uniqueness of only being able to challenge for one title, and then only being allowed to enter tourneys for the additional titles would make the value of such
accomplishment more special. For instance, in the time Dalamar was Overlord, for I believe a period that spanned 5 or 6 different cycles, and with the potential vacanies he experienced of Barons during his reign, he might have been able to get as much as maybe four Baron rings to hold while he held the crown. Or for instance in Lupton and Ellisa's case, a dueler might end up with two titles suddenly, but wouldn't get another chance for a third till
the next end of cycle Warlord's Tourney if there was even a vacancy and they still held their titles by then. This is of course assuming a dueler could have such excellent success in both challenges and tournements, and repeatedly.
Now then of course the question becomes what happens when the multiple title holder is challenged. I think it could be handled in a couple of different possibilities. A dueler could challenge stating which particular title they are going for, and if they win they get the one title they wanted. To follow suit with the one challenge rule, a dueler couldn't challenge for all the titles a dueler holds, and multiple titles shouldn't be being passed
based on one duel. Perhaps the challenged if they lost could keep the other titles they held, or I think more appropriately, the other titles if they lose all become vacancies for the next tourney. So let's say the holder of the 5th has also the 8th and 2nd Baron rings, and is challenged by someone who wants the 8th ring. If the title holder loses, the challenger gets the 8th, while the 5th and 2nd rings become prizes for the next tourney.
I think you get the jist of what I am proposing and I am interested to hear feedback from both my fellow comrades at arms, and of course the officials of the sport. No offense or other negative conentations are meant towards Lupton or Ellisa in the above examples, it was used specifically for example reasons to relate the scenerio only.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
Holding Multiple Titles at Once Debate
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From: cptellisamorgan@aol.com (Cpt EllisaMorgan)
Date: 09 Jul 2000 14:23:53 EDT
Elijah, and the rest of the community,
I would state that my case was indeed very different, as from the outset Lord Evermeadow stated that if my team were to win, Bishop would have gotten the ring by default. In a regular Warlord Tourney, if Lupton won, he won, there would be no default partner to hand the title.
This Tourney was not the norm, it was an experiment, one that although well meaning, I still am unsure if that gives it merit.
As for the rest of Elijahs' post, I would only state that his instances mentioning me in relation to bearing two rings was based upon an ill-informed situation, as the matter of it was settled before I set forth in the ring.
The rest, as with any community discussion, has its merits. Simply put, I do not believe that any one person should hold more than one title.
As a side note, there have been rumors that the age of peer wins is nigh over, and that letters of mark ((challenge rights)) shall be distributed to all ranks, by standing members of the community, to allow them to challenge. That is an idea that I fully support, it bespeaks a powerful character in a man or woman of a lower rank to be given enough letters to challenge.
But that is a discussion for another day.
Ellisa
Date: 09 Jul 2000 14:23:53 EDT
Elijah, and the rest of the community,
I would state that my case was indeed very different, as from the outset Lord Evermeadow stated that if my team were to win, Bishop would have gotten the ring by default. In a regular Warlord Tourney, if Lupton won, he won, there would be no default partner to hand the title.
This Tourney was not the norm, it was an experiment, one that although well meaning, I still am unsure if that gives it merit.
As for the rest of Elijahs' post, I would only state that his instances mentioning me in relation to bearing two rings was based upon an ill-informed situation, as the matter of it was settled before I set forth in the ring.
The rest, as with any community discussion, has its merits. Simply put, I do not believe that any one person should hold more than one title.
As a side note, there have been rumors that the age of peer wins is nigh over, and that letters of mark ((challenge rights)) shall be distributed to all ranks, by standing members of the community, to allow them to challenge. That is an idea that I fully support, it bespeaks a powerful character in a man or woman of a lower rank to be given enough letters to challenge.
But that is a discussion for another day.
Ellisa
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 09 Jul 2000 15:37:22 EDT
It was a Commoner to Warlord tournament. Whether or not Ellisa would be allowed to take the prize or not is irrelevant.
The point is, people sought non-baron and non-overlord partners because they were disallowed. If they had known baron and overlord partners were allowed, then perhaps some of the barons would have taken part in it as well.
Holding multiple titles is something I definitely don't want to see. If one baron's ring isn't good enough for you, then perhaps you should run home and raid your toy box to ease your boredom.
Regarding the tournament, I feel that allowing Ellisa and Drey to partake in it after she won the ring was a sloppy decision. Not that I have an issue with Ellisa, Drey, Zen, or Bishop because of it, but leading people to a false premise and then making "exceptions" is unfair to everyone, and leaves a sloppy marking upon this tournament.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 09 Jul 2000 15:37:22 EDT
It was a Commoner to Warlord tournament. Whether or not Ellisa would be allowed to take the prize or not is irrelevant.
The point is, people sought non-baron and non-overlord partners because they were disallowed. If they had known baron and overlord partners were allowed, then perhaps some of the barons would have taken part in it as well.
Holding multiple titles is something I definitely don't want to see. If one baron's ring isn't good enough for you, then perhaps you should run home and raid your toy box to ease your boredom.
Regarding the tournament, I feel that allowing Ellisa and Drey to partake in it after she won the ring was a sloppy decision. Not that I have an issue with Ellisa, Drey, Zen, or Bishop because of it, but leading people to a false premise and then making "exceptions" is unfair to everyone, and leaves a sloppy marking upon this tournament.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
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From: elijahbasiauhr@aol.com (Elijah Basia Uhr)
Date: 09 Jul 2000 18:00:53 EDT
This thread of debate is not because of the recent tag-team tourney, or the people involved in it. It is about some thoughts that came to mind during the situation for possible future potential. I made it clear I wasn't trying to insult or or otherwise make people feel like they were being attacked for how things happened. I was merely
suggesting the possibilities of allowing situations in the future for holding multiple titles.
Also, when I read the tourney rules it seemed pretty clear to me that the non-Warlord didn't automatically forfeit the prize to the Warlord of the team. It stated pretty clearly that the team who won would face each other regardless of rank for the chance to hold the 11th ring. That is why I think Ellisa and Drey should not even been allowed to even partcipate in the tourney, because no dueler should attain title simply by default. however, I
was merely suggesting that Barons and the Overlord, should be allowed to enter tourneys to claim additional prizes. So with that reasoning then I would have favored Ellisa and Drey in being in the tourney.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
Date: 09 Jul 2000 18:00:53 EDT
This thread of debate is not because of the recent tag-team tourney, or the people involved in it. It is about some thoughts that came to mind during the situation for possible future potential. I made it clear I wasn't trying to insult or or otherwise make people feel like they were being attacked for how things happened. I was merely
suggesting the possibilities of allowing situations in the future for holding multiple titles.
Also, when I read the tourney rules it seemed pretty clear to me that the non-Warlord didn't automatically forfeit the prize to the Warlord of the team. It stated pretty clearly that the team who won would face each other regardless of rank for the chance to hold the 11th ring. That is why I think Ellisa and Drey should not even been allowed to even partcipate in the tourney, because no dueler should attain title simply by default. however, I
was merely suggesting that Barons and the Overlord, should be allowed to enter tourneys to claim additional prizes. So with that reasoning then I would have favored Ellisa and Drey in being in the tourney.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
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From: sircetran@aol.com (Sir Cetran)
Date: 10 Jul 2000 01:33:03 EDT
What I am unclear about is how people feel difficulty in the current system. It is simple, it is easy, it is effective and it doesn't force favorites in the community such as a beauty or popularity contest. If such were the case, we would have the same roaming Barons and Overlords for years to come with no harvest of the threats of unpopularity that make this game interesting.
Having titles open to all ranks is laughably ludicrous in its foolishness. It would eradicate the sole purposes to duel, which is to win. This is a sport, not a kingdom. Whatever essence the duel of swords would have after such a change would dissolve by the constant nonsense and childish yammering over who-likes-who more than he-likes-her.
If you want no purpose for competition in combat, you might enjoy leading an election for your favorite candidate for the latest local barony. Then may we rise one morning like a group of capitalists and elect our new ruler without the pride and glory of achieving the rank through a feat of physical prowess. I feel like the idea is to deceive our morals, the idea of tyrants and betrayers.
Multiple titles are an interesting idea, with Elijah's presentation. It posses merit, and perhaps it might be one to pursue. I thoroughly enjoyed my one match in last nights special tournament, and maybe this could be another spice to add flavor to the stew. The way Elijah resented it showed that one man could not own the ranks. If others do not see it the same way, no matter. I believe that all it would do is to add a bit of interest.
Ellisa,
>>I would state that my case was indeed very different, as from the outset Lord Evermeadow stated that if my team were to win, Bishop would have gotten the ring by default. In a regular Warlord Tourney, if Lupton won, he won, there would be no default partner to hand the title.<<
Except of course for the second place winner. Call it a cadence of pride for Lupton in that scenario.
To make myself clear, you had no place in last night tournament since had you won, you would have been invalidated. Lupton was no different. Had he won, he would have been invalidated just as you, and all would have for it is a cadence of pride, such as you would of had. Not perfectly parallel, but honestly, close enough.
~^~ Sir Damien Cetran ~^~
Date: 10 Jul 2000 01:33:03 EDT
What I am unclear about is how people feel difficulty in the current system. It is simple, it is easy, it is effective and it doesn't force favorites in the community such as a beauty or popularity contest. If such were the case, we would have the same roaming Barons and Overlords for years to come with no harvest of the threats of unpopularity that make this game interesting.
Having titles open to all ranks is laughably ludicrous in its foolishness. It would eradicate the sole purposes to duel, which is to win. This is a sport, not a kingdom. Whatever essence the duel of swords would have after such a change would dissolve by the constant nonsense and childish yammering over who-likes-who more than he-likes-her.
If you want no purpose for competition in combat, you might enjoy leading an election for your favorite candidate for the latest local barony. Then may we rise one morning like a group of capitalists and elect our new ruler without the pride and glory of achieving the rank through a feat of physical prowess. I feel like the idea is to deceive our morals, the idea of tyrants and betrayers.
Multiple titles are an interesting idea, with Elijah's presentation. It posses merit, and perhaps it might be one to pursue. I thoroughly enjoyed my one match in last nights special tournament, and maybe this could be another spice to add flavor to the stew. The way Elijah resented it showed that one man could not own the ranks. If others do not see it the same way, no matter. I believe that all it would do is to add a bit of interest.
Ellisa,
>>I would state that my case was indeed very different, as from the outset Lord Evermeadow stated that if my team were to win, Bishop would have gotten the ring by default. In a regular Warlord Tourney, if Lupton won, he won, there would be no default partner to hand the title.<<
Except of course for the second place winner. Call it a cadence of pride for Lupton in that scenario.
To make myself clear, you had no place in last night tournament since had you won, you would have been invalidated. Lupton was no different. Had he won, he would have been invalidated just as you, and all would have for it is a cadence of pride, such as you would of had. Not perfectly parallel, but honestly, close enough.
~^~ Sir Damien Cetran ~^~
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From: cptellisamorgan@aol.com (Cpt EllisaMorgan)
Date: 10 Jul 2000 14:32:31 EDT
>To make myself clear, you had no place in last night tournament since had you
>won, you would have been invalidated.
Sir Cetran,
I do hope that you meant to say, "In my opinion" in that statement, as the Supervisor of the sport made clear specifically that I did indeed have a place in the Tourney.
It was not I that pressed for that place, but rather Valentine came to me to state that I would still be eligible. I remained in the Tourney because at that late date, my partner, Fandral Kurgan, had no other dueler he wished to be partnered, and I that was the sole purpose of my remaining.
Not perfect in parallel, as stated about the Supervisor of the sport, whether your opinion differs from his or not, specifically told me that I had a place still in the Tourney. Whether or not Lupton also had such an endorsement, I do not know and I would not venture to guess.
I hope this clears either your misunderstanding, and or the fact that it was indeed your opinion. Upon the second, please do not mistake me, I fully believe in ones right to state an opinion upon any community matter, so long as you are aware it is just that.
Sincerely,
Ellisa
Date: 10 Jul 2000 14:32:31 EDT
>To make myself clear, you had no place in last night tournament since had you
>won, you would have been invalidated.
Sir Cetran,
I do hope that you meant to say, "In my opinion" in that statement, as the Supervisor of the sport made clear specifically that I did indeed have a place in the Tourney.
It was not I that pressed for that place, but rather Valentine came to me to state that I would still be eligible. I remained in the Tourney because at that late date, my partner, Fandral Kurgan, had no other dueler he wished to be partnered, and I that was the sole purpose of my remaining.
Not perfect in parallel, as stated about the Supervisor of the sport, whether your opinion differs from his or not, specifically told me that I had a place still in the Tourney. Whether or not Lupton also had such an endorsement, I do not know and I would not venture to guess.
I hope this clears either your misunderstanding, and or the fact that it was indeed your opinion. Upon the second, please do not mistake me, I fully believe in ones right to state an opinion upon any community matter, so long as you are aware it is just that.
Sincerely,
Ellisa
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From: vielune@aol.com (Vie Lune)
Date: 16 Jul 2000 06:23:03 EDT
I also think it would be interesting, and would support, the idea of Barons/Overlords holding multiple prizes. I myself will probably never be so much as a Grand-Master, but I think that this would be a most intruiguing twist . . . I also remember someone mentioning something once about "supply and demand", or something to that effect. I
believe this would have a positive impact on that concept.
~Kurnous Jai~
"Possibly the best commoner you'll ever duel"
((My normal SN is "The Jade Knight"))
Date: 16 Jul 2000 06:23:03 EDT
I also think it would be interesting, and would support, the idea of Barons/Overlords holding multiple prizes. I myself will probably never be so much as a Grand-Master, but I think that this would be a most intruiguing twist . . . I also remember someone mentioning something once about "supply and demand", or something to that effect. I
believe this would have a positive impact on that concept.
~Kurnous Jai~
"Possibly the best commoner you'll ever duel"
((My normal SN is "The Jade Knight"))
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 18 Jul 2000 00:33:40 EDT
"Whether or not Lupton also had such an endorsement, I do not know and I would not venture to guess."
The Warlord Tourney Coordinator came to me and informed me I could still participate because the Standings declaring my victory were yet to be published. I inquired if she was positive. She was. I showed up. She changed her mind.
~ Lupton
Date: 18 Jul 2000 00:33:40 EDT
"Whether or not Lupton also had such an endorsement, I do not know and I would not venture to guess."
The Warlord Tourney Coordinator came to me and informed me I could still participate because the Standings declaring my victory were yet to be published. I inquired if she was positive. She was. I showed up. She changed her mind.
~ Lupton