Date: 8/21/97 6:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: HumaDragbn
I am reminded of a saying, "Just because the mountain is there is not sufficient reason to climb it." Just because you have enough PW's is not a good reason to challenge. BUT, it is thy right and nobody can refuse that right. To some of the younger duelers, the oppertunity to hold a position such as baron is a great oppertunity. Like myself challenging for the Overlordship, just because i have peerwins enough is not why challenged. I have something to prove, and this is one way for me to do it, and the
title is attractive to me and i want it. Weather anybody likes this or not it's my right. Nobody has to like all these challenges, but they should still be accepted without an argument.
Huma
Ramblings of the Overlord
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Date: 8/21/97 8:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: SidarthaE
Aye, I agree with Huma.
Just because you have the right, within the rules, to challenge, it doesn't mean you just go challenging whenever you choose. Maybe if people thought they're challenges out more often, the rings would be changing hands a bit more.
But, since I'm only a Commoner, and always have been, I probably have no clue what I'm talking about, right? Just my ever humble opinion. ;>
~Sid
From: SidarthaE
Aye, I agree with Huma.
Just because you have the right, within the rules, to challenge, it doesn't mean you just go challenging whenever you choose. Maybe if people thought they're challenges out more often, the rings would be changing hands a bit more.
But, since I'm only a Commoner, and always have been, I probably have no clue what I'm talking about, right? Just my ever humble opinion. ;>
~Sid
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Date: 8/21/97 9:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: SpifyMcBng
::rubs his eyes:: ::blinks:: ::starts to write sloppily::
Overlord, Baron people, they leader people. What lead? Be Baron, Overlord person, mean lot good fighter. Best fighter not all time smart leader. Want smart leader, got find other way get smart leader than fight.
Goon
From: SpifyMcBng
::rubs his eyes:: ::blinks:: ::starts to write sloppily::
Overlord, Baron people, they leader people. What lead? Be Baron, Overlord person, mean lot good fighter. Best fighter not all time smart leader. Want smart leader, got find other way get smart leader than fight.
Goon
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Date: 8/22/97 2:45 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: Drakewynx
While I support what you say, I find I don't support the way you said it. You, Dalamar, are the Overlord... If you feel a challenge is lacking, at least to a Loyal Baron or to yourself, then you institute a "Test of Worthiness"
I am more than willing to act as a champion, even if I can't duel worth a dran half the time. I'm sure that there are dozens of duelists who would jump at the chance to be involved in a "Test of Worthiness."
Once, in a semi-serious discussion, I told a friend of mine, a perrinial commoner, that if I ever made it to the rank of "OverLady" that I would always let her be my champion.
It is my ardent wish that one day a Renagade Baron will challenge an OverLord and be put to a "Test of Worthiness" against a commoner. After all, if the commoner wins, he/she gets a free challenge at said Renagade and may even manage to get a ring... now wouldn't -that- be a hoot.
To put it simply, "A test of one's skills" is a fairly valid reason to challenge, as is "I think I'd make a good Baron." Now, "That Ring would go good with my new fur cloak", "I'm gonna challenge before so-and-so does", or "Heck, <insert appropriate Baron here> hasn't been challenged in a few months." These are all poor reasons to challenge.
The Grand Duchess Drakewyn Alabaster the Tenth.
::Goes to find that spiked club again, intent on having a "discussion" with her husband about the use of vugarity in his postings.::
From: Drakewynx
While I support what you say, I find I don't support the way you said it. You, Dalamar, are the Overlord... If you feel a challenge is lacking, at least to a Loyal Baron or to yourself, then you institute a "Test of Worthiness"
I am more than willing to act as a champion, even if I can't duel worth a dran half the time. I'm sure that there are dozens of duelists who would jump at the chance to be involved in a "Test of Worthiness."
Once, in a semi-serious discussion, I told a friend of mine, a perrinial commoner, that if I ever made it to the rank of "OverLady" that I would always let her be my champion.
It is my ardent wish that one day a Renagade Baron will challenge an OverLord and be put to a "Test of Worthiness" against a commoner. After all, if the commoner wins, he/she gets a free challenge at said Renagade and may even manage to get a ring... now wouldn't -that- be a hoot.
To put it simply, "A test of one's skills" is a fairly valid reason to challenge, as is "I think I'd make a good Baron." Now, "That Ring would go good with my new fur cloak", "I'm gonna challenge before so-and-so does", or "Heck, <insert appropriate Baron here> hasn't been challenged in a few months." These are all poor reasons to challenge.
The Grand Duchess Drakewyn Alabaster the Tenth.
::Goes to find that spiked club again, intent on having a "discussion" with her husband about the use of vugarity in his postings.::
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Date: 8/22/97 6:11 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: SirCetran
>>I always have believed in the turn-over of titles, with those destined and talented to keep theirs. Those that keep their titles show they deserve them. Those that lose, showed they perhaps were not as deserving.<<
>>Billy Ray Karnafexx
* 4/5/97 - 7/8/97 *
The challenger was one Billy Ray Karnafexx, self proclaimed cocksure braggart. Once again Billy proved more than able to back up his words in the ring. Perhaps it was weakness from the weeks of enslavement or perhaps he was merely overmatched, but Raiyko could not maintain the pace of the match..falling to Billy's sapgloved fists.
It was a month before Billy faced his first challenge. The opponent was Verceterix Gavin Favre, warlord of House Llewys-Lathadoscia. The night belonged to Billy who, in eight fanciless rounds, defeated the would be baron 5.5-1
Billy continued to defend without fancies when Xyclone issued what was the second challenge for the ring. The duel was closer than was his first defense, Xyclone taking the lead for a stretch of 3 rounds in the middle, but the win would go to the Baron.
A renegade under Overlord Dalamar ArD'aumon, Billy went so far as to invite a queue of challenge. Three warlords took up the invitation and were scheduled to duel him in consecutive matches on the same evening...... The victims were, in order of challenge, Zaradda Eltorch, Verceterix Gavin 'ur Favre 'il Thorne and G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador. The combined score of all three matches was 15.5 - 6 and Billy walked away with the 5th ring still on his finger. The night was a spectacle
of skill and endurance put on by the sap gloved Baron.
One more defense would have pushed Billy over the record of the time, but the 6th was not to be. Challenger Draven Altruis II went 13 rounds with the Baron before taking a 5.5-3 victory.<<
I use Billy Ray as my exapmle for my point because many believe believe him to be one of the best duelists around. Now, if you have read the commenet I picked up from Steave and then read the insert from the "Meet The Baron's" I took from the fifth Ring, it will help you understand what I am saying.
If the turn over in titles is what you believe in, do you believe in the consistancy of duelists challenging Barons? What some call "Power Defending" is going through defence after defence after defence with hardly a rest. While you power defend, eventually, you must lose. Aside from Billy's "wanting" to be challenged often, he too eventually lost, only three months a four days after winning the Ring from Raiyko. Other exapmles would be Jeff and to a lesser extent, myself. Addena's reign as Baron lasted
an entire year and a half... but only saw five challenges (six if you include Sau's forfiet).
My point is, if many duelists Challenge Baron's for in my opinion, "Just for the heck of it" (Which I will not give my examples pubically), then we will have "Power Defending" to Baron's who should not be defending so much. With gaining the "Right" to challenge being so easy these days, any Commener Man with a Win Streak could come up, Challenge, be Challenged, Fall and that be the last heard of him. Before the shoping spree of Challenges, I myself thought of Challenging One of Two Baron's. I had
collected Twenty One Peers Wins, had my name near the top of the list of the "Warlord Ranks" this cycle and was in second place last cycle... so I wanted the Challenge of being Challenged as a Baron because I had shown my personal skill through Every way I could think of.
Mabye they should make Challenging more difficult... or mabye people should just Discipline themselves in deciding when they should Challenge. No Baron should be "Power Defending" unless that Baron requests it (Ex. Billy Ray).
Respectfully Submitted,
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
From: SirCetran
>>I always have believed in the turn-over of titles, with those destined and talented to keep theirs. Those that keep their titles show they deserve them. Those that lose, showed they perhaps were not as deserving.<<
>>Billy Ray Karnafexx
* 4/5/97 - 7/8/97 *
The challenger was one Billy Ray Karnafexx, self proclaimed cocksure braggart. Once again Billy proved more than able to back up his words in the ring. Perhaps it was weakness from the weeks of enslavement or perhaps he was merely overmatched, but Raiyko could not maintain the pace of the match..falling to Billy's sapgloved fists.
It was a month before Billy faced his first challenge. The opponent was Verceterix Gavin Favre, warlord of House Llewys-Lathadoscia. The night belonged to Billy who, in eight fanciless rounds, defeated the would be baron 5.5-1
Billy continued to defend without fancies when Xyclone issued what was the second challenge for the ring. The duel was closer than was his first defense, Xyclone taking the lead for a stretch of 3 rounds in the middle, but the win would go to the Baron.
A renegade under Overlord Dalamar ArD'aumon, Billy went so far as to invite a queue of challenge. Three warlords took up the invitation and were scheduled to duel him in consecutive matches on the same evening...... The victims were, in order of challenge, Zaradda Eltorch, Verceterix Gavin 'ur Favre 'il Thorne and G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador. The combined score of all three matches was 15.5 - 6 and Billy walked away with the 5th ring still on his finger. The night was a spectacle
of skill and endurance put on by the sap gloved Baron.
One more defense would have pushed Billy over the record of the time, but the 6th was not to be. Challenger Draven Altruis II went 13 rounds with the Baron before taking a 5.5-3 victory.<<
I use Billy Ray as my exapmle for my point because many believe believe him to be one of the best duelists around. Now, if you have read the commenet I picked up from Steave and then read the insert from the "Meet The Baron's" I took from the fifth Ring, it will help you understand what I am saying.
If the turn over in titles is what you believe in, do you believe in the consistancy of duelists challenging Barons? What some call "Power Defending" is going through defence after defence after defence with hardly a rest. While you power defend, eventually, you must lose. Aside from Billy's "wanting" to be challenged often, he too eventually lost, only three months a four days after winning the Ring from Raiyko. Other exapmles would be Jeff and to a lesser extent, myself. Addena's reign as Baron lasted
an entire year and a half... but only saw five challenges (six if you include Sau's forfiet).
My point is, if many duelists Challenge Baron's for in my opinion, "Just for the heck of it" (Which I will not give my examples pubically), then we will have "Power Defending" to Baron's who should not be defending so much. With gaining the "Right" to challenge being so easy these days, any Commener Man with a Win Streak could come up, Challenge, be Challenged, Fall and that be the last heard of him. Before the shoping spree of Challenges, I myself thought of Challenging One of Two Baron's. I had
collected Twenty One Peers Wins, had my name near the top of the list of the "Warlord Ranks" this cycle and was in second place last cycle... so I wanted the Challenge of being Challenged as a Baron because I had shown my personal skill through Every way I could think of.
Mabye they should make Challenging more difficult... or mabye people should just Discipline themselves in deciding when they should Challenge. No Baron should be "Power Defending" unless that Baron requests it (Ex. Billy Ray).
Respectfully Submitted,
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
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Date: 8/22/97 6:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: SirRobS
::steps up to the postboard and tacks a message::
I for one think that there are many Warlords out there that are jumping into
challenging to fast. But on the other hand many duelists out there that have
dueled for a short amount of time but are very skilled in the sport and are looking
for a way to advance farther then a Warlord. Still, It took me myself a year to reach
Warlord from my first duel and another 3 months to attain 10 peer wins to challenge.
If I were a baron that had worked 2+ years to reach that baron title and it were taken
away from a duelist that had been dueling for only a few weeks or months I'm sure I
would be mad. But from the other duelists side the baron's ring is there way to advance.
It is hard on both sides for the older duelists who keep honor and respect at heart, and
for the younger duelists who see DoS as a sport. Just a thought.
-Rob
Warlord of 1 year
From: SirRobS
::steps up to the postboard and tacks a message::
I for one think that there are many Warlords out there that are jumping into
challenging to fast. But on the other hand many duelists out there that have
dueled for a short amount of time but are very skilled in the sport and are looking
for a way to advance farther then a Warlord. Still, It took me myself a year to reach
Warlord from my first duel and another 3 months to attain 10 peer wins to challenge.
If I were a baron that had worked 2+ years to reach that baron title and it were taken
away from a duelist that had been dueling for only a few weeks or months I'm sure I
would be mad. But from the other duelists side the baron's ring is there way to advance.
It is hard on both sides for the older duelists who keep honor and respect at heart, and
for the younger duelists who see DoS as a sport. Just a thought.
-Rob
Warlord of 1 year
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Date: 8/22/97 10:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: Bapheloc
To the Duelers of the sport of Swords,
All that has been said is in fact, just opinion. The rules are the rules, though vague in some areas, but still they are simply the rules. The rules mean that you can and can not do certain things at certain times. No where in the rules does it say how one should implement them or why, and to check your astrological chart or the unwritten code of ethics that seem to be different in understanding from one group or individuals to another group or individuals. Popular opinion of what is
considered honorable or not honorable lies with who has the popular voice or popular power, though it still does not fall within any rules of Swords. Fancys, ranks versus ranks, challenges, it's all a very old debate that will never be solved, finished, or ever make everyone happy all the time, in fact continuing such debates at such ways will only spark more chaos and dissention among the community. No, I do not think they should be ignored, but by no means should a community be condemed for them.
In short summary, talk is cheap, opinions are cheaper, and the blade and the rules still decide how this sport is governed by who and when. If you don't like how someone uses the rules, then do your best to remove them from their position to use such rules, or just show fairness, generousity, and conservatism, and still defeat them in the ring by thy blade. Skill of the blade, not talent with the mouth and forming opinion is what remains the primary factor of the Fate of DoS.
This thread of conversation in my opinion is utterly useless to the concerns of the community. If it is your right to do something and you wish to do it, then do it, either you will succeed or fail. In the end to thyself be true, for you have only yourself and your gods to answer to in the end. Do not let thy comrades and peers pressure you with their opinions.
Baphelocutis est Lathadoscia
Holder of the 1st Baron Ring of DoS
From: Bapheloc
To the Duelers of the sport of Swords,
All that has been said is in fact, just opinion. The rules are the rules, though vague in some areas, but still they are simply the rules. The rules mean that you can and can not do certain things at certain times. No where in the rules does it say how one should implement them or why, and to check your astrological chart or the unwritten code of ethics that seem to be different in understanding from one group or individuals to another group or individuals. Popular opinion of what is
considered honorable or not honorable lies with who has the popular voice or popular power, though it still does not fall within any rules of Swords. Fancys, ranks versus ranks, challenges, it's all a very old debate that will never be solved, finished, or ever make everyone happy all the time, in fact continuing such debates at such ways will only spark more chaos and dissention among the community. No, I do not think they should be ignored, but by no means should a community be condemed for them.
In short summary, talk is cheap, opinions are cheaper, and the blade and the rules still decide how this sport is governed by who and when. If you don't like how someone uses the rules, then do your best to remove them from their position to use such rules, or just show fairness, generousity, and conservatism, and still defeat them in the ring by thy blade. Skill of the blade, not talent with the mouth and forming opinion is what remains the primary factor of the Fate of DoS.
This thread of conversation in my opinion is utterly useless to the concerns of the community. If it is your right to do something and you wish to do it, then do it, either you will succeed or fail. In the end to thyself be true, for you have only yourself and your gods to answer to in the end. Do not let thy comrades and peers pressure you with their opinions.
Baphelocutis est Lathadoscia
Holder of the 1st Baron Ring of DoS
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Date: 8/22/97 10:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: LdyAja
::wanders up and reads through the posts Shakes her head. posts her message::
Not more bickering. Who cares? ::shakes her headand rewrites:: Scartch that, someone cares but does it matter if So and so challenges a baron or not. Rarely does it make a difference to the commoners.
And all this bickering does is reinforce the thought that Baron/ess and such is just a title and nothing more. If they are good they will keep it, if not they will lose it. No big deal. I'm sorry Dal, I have nothin against you, but I'm afaid that very few look at this issue the way you do. I have no idea if that's a bad thing or not, all I know is I come to the arena to duel, make some friends, and have fun.
Sorry if I have offended you Dal, but that's the way I see it.
~Lady Aja~
From: LdyAja
::wanders up and reads through the posts Shakes her head. posts her message::
Not more bickering. Who cares? ::shakes her headand rewrites:: Scartch that, someone cares but does it matter if So and so challenges a baron or not. Rarely does it make a difference to the commoners.
And all this bickering does is reinforce the thought that Baron/ess and such is just a title and nothing more. If they are good they will keep it, if not they will lose it. No big deal. I'm sorry Dal, I have nothin against you, but I'm afaid that very few look at this issue the way you do. I have no idea if that's a bad thing or not, all I know is I come to the arena to duel, make some friends, and have fun.
Sorry if I have offended you Dal, but that's the way I see it.
~Lady Aja~
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Date: 8/22/97 11:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: WickedDeth
It seems all the lower ranks do not agree with Dalamar and the Warlords do.I for one am in total agreement with Dalamar the Baron rings change way too much and to me when I think of challenging again I don't want to because the thrill is gone it is a common thing to hold the Baron ring now.To the lower ranks,listen to your elders for we have been doing this a little longer then you have and I am sure in a year from now you will agree.Another thing if you wish to challenge yourself E-mail Karnafexx and
ask to duel if you can beat him your pretty damn good.You don't have to make a mockery of the Baron titles just cause you want to test yourself and I am sure you will find the title more fulfilling if you have a good reason to challenge.
WDeath
From: WickedDeth
It seems all the lower ranks do not agree with Dalamar and the Warlords do.I for one am in total agreement with Dalamar the Baron rings change way too much and to me when I think of challenging again I don't want to because the thrill is gone it is a common thing to hold the Baron ring now.To the lower ranks,listen to your elders for we have been doing this a little longer then you have and I am sure in a year from now you will agree.Another thing if you wish to challenge yourself E-mail Karnafexx and
ask to duel if you can beat him your pretty damn good.You don't have to make a mockery of the Baron titles just cause you want to test yourself and I am sure you will find the title more fulfilling if you have a good reason to challenge.
WDeath
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Date: 8/22/97 11:31 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: SirCetran
>>In short summary, talk is cheap, *opinions* are cheaper,<<
>>This thread of conversation in my *opinion* is utterly useless to the concerns of the community.<<
----Bapheloc
Enlighten me Baron, are you calling your own opinion(s) cheap?
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
From: SirCetran
>>In short summary, talk is cheap, *opinions* are cheaper,<<
>>This thread of conversation in my *opinion* is utterly useless to the concerns of the community.<<
----Bapheloc
Enlighten me Baron, are you calling your own opinion(s) cheap?
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
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Date: 8/22/97 11:36 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: Foxxgrrl
::laughs, sliding her duffel bag from her shoulder and rummaging through it for a pen::
I listen to my elders. That doesn't mean I let them brainwash me into agreeing with their opinions. I agree with who I agree with, I disagree with who I agree with, and the opinions generally matter more than who says them. Just because I don't agree with Dal on this one doesn't mean I think he's wrong forever.
I'll discuss any issue with anyone, up on the boards or over an ale or during a duel or anywhere else. But what I won't do is give someone's opinion more weight just because they can best me with a sword. Overlord/lady to first time dueler, baron/ess to commoner, I'll listen to what anyone has to say, and then agree or not as the case may be.
Some people may point out to me that the higher ranked duelers generally have more seniority and can form a better opinion. Well, they may have seen more than I have, and if they can argue their point with facts it could change my opinion. But just because someone's been dueling since the DoS began does not mean they're always right.
~Ally
::scribbles as an afterthought::
Respect people, respect that their opinions are different than yours, but don't shut up if you don't agree.
From: Foxxgrrl
::laughs, sliding her duffel bag from her shoulder and rummaging through it for a pen::
I listen to my elders. That doesn't mean I let them brainwash me into agreeing with their opinions. I agree with who I agree with, I disagree with who I agree with, and the opinions generally matter more than who says them. Just because I don't agree with Dal on this one doesn't mean I think he's wrong forever.
I'll discuss any issue with anyone, up on the boards or over an ale or during a duel or anywhere else. But what I won't do is give someone's opinion more weight just because they can best me with a sword. Overlord/lady to first time dueler, baron/ess to commoner, I'll listen to what anyone has to say, and then agree or not as the case may be.
Some people may point out to me that the higher ranked duelers generally have more seniority and can form a better opinion. Well, they may have seen more than I have, and if they can argue their point with facts it could change my opinion. But just because someone's been dueling since the DoS began does not mean they're always right.
~Ally
::scribbles as an afterthought::
Respect people, respect that their opinions are different than yours, but don't shut up if you don't agree.