From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 27 Sep 1998 20:08:38 EDT
Lupton,
if you wish to go into it, on my peer win list I have listed as follows...
07-08-98, HumaDragbn def. RLupton, 5-0.5 in 8 rounds.
Since you feel the need to mention besting me on that occasion. Might I also remind you, I defended the 4th one time more than you were able Lupton. I think that is enough said.
Huma
Pushing for change...
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From: rixfavre@aol.com (Rix Favre)
Date: 27 Sep 1998 22:18:39 EDT
Neither listing someone as a peer win nor defending more times than another is a show of superior skill.
In addition, the histories are quite biased and unfair to many people.
-Rix
Date: 27 Sep 1998 22:18:39 EDT
Neither listing someone as a peer win nor defending more times than another is a show of superior skill.
In addition, the histories are quite biased and unfair to many people.
-Rix
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From: rdiscad@aol.com (RDI Scad)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 00:39:49 EDT
Verra true, Lupton. As is Huma's response. Bu' one duel, either way, dinnae show much.
I took some spare time ta compile some statistics from the Histories, strictly countin' those matches as were actually fough', as forfeits dinnae tell us annathin' o' the dueler's skill, an' neither ye ner Huma has e'er forfeited yerselves.
In challenges:
Lupton-
challenges won (fighting) -2
challenges lost (fighting) - 7
Winning percentage- 22%
Huma-
challenges won (fighting) -1
challenges lost (fighting) - 3
Winning percentage- 25%
In defenses:
Lupton-
defenses won (fighting) - 5
defenses lost (fighting) - 2
Winning percentage - 71%
record defense streak - 3, with the 4th
Huma-
defenses won (fighting) - 4
defenses lost (fighting) - 1
Winning percentage - 80%
record defense streak - 4, with the 4th
I'd say the lad be holdin' his own...
Turienal Lodrelhai Castle
Historian, Duel of Swords
Date: 28 Sep 1998 00:39:49 EDT
Verra true, Lupton. As is Huma's response. Bu' one duel, either way, dinnae show much.
I took some spare time ta compile some statistics from the Histories, strictly countin' those matches as were actually fough', as forfeits dinnae tell us annathin' o' the dueler's skill, an' neither ye ner Huma has e'er forfeited yerselves.
In challenges:
Lupton-
challenges won (fighting) -2
challenges lost (fighting) - 7
Winning percentage- 22%
Huma-
challenges won (fighting) -1
challenges lost (fighting) - 3
Winning percentage- 25%
In defenses:
Lupton-
defenses won (fighting) - 5
defenses lost (fighting) - 2
Winning percentage - 71%
record defense streak - 3, with the 4th
Huma-
defenses won (fighting) - 4
defenses lost (fighting) - 1
Winning percentage - 80%
record defense streak - 4, with the 4th
I'd say the lad be holdin' his own...
Turienal Lodrelhai Castle
Historian, Duel of Swords
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:36:45 EDT
People of the arena,
I'm sorry m'lady Turienal, in uniform, has begun this childish and insignificant debate for ye all to read. I apologize further for having continued it. I, personally, refuse to further quibble on who beat who when in what way by which luck. I'm through with it. If Huma becomes Overlord, I'm sure we'll see who the better duelist is.
~Lupton est Dracoern
Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:36:45 EDT
People of the arena,
I'm sorry m'lady Turienal, in uniform, has begun this childish and insignificant debate for ye all to read. I apologize further for having continued it. I, personally, refuse to further quibble on who beat who when in what way by which luck. I'm through with it. If Huma becomes Overlord, I'm sure we'll see who the better duelist is.
~Lupton est Dracoern
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:54:44 EDT
"I'm sorry m'lady Turienal, in uniform, has begun this childish and insignificant debate for ye all to read."
Congratulations, Baron Lupton, on a selective memory second only to Adonai's. If I remember correctly, and I am sure I do and that most of the rest of us can remember it as well, It was you who started this line of discussion with a snide remark regarding Huma's impression of his own skill. Or have you forgotten that already? Huma then continued this discussion with his own remarks about his skill and yours.
It was only after you and Huma had exchanged words in more than one such post, if I remember correctly, that Turi put her two cents in. She did so, it seemed, to settle the argument. It would seem to me, Baron, that you started it, Huma replied, and Turi tried to finish it.
Of course, if you would rather be the victim, I am sure I could find a few people in RhyDin would be willing to victimize you.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:54:44 EDT
"I'm sorry m'lady Turienal, in uniform, has begun this childish and insignificant debate for ye all to read."
Congratulations, Baron Lupton, on a selective memory second only to Adonai's. If I remember correctly, and I am sure I do and that most of the rest of us can remember it as well, It was you who started this line of discussion with a snide remark regarding Huma's impression of his own skill. Or have you forgotten that already? Huma then continued this discussion with his own remarks about his skill and yours.
It was only after you and Huma had exchanged words in more than one such post, if I remember correctly, that Turi put her two cents in. She did so, it seemed, to settle the argument. It would seem to me, Baron, that you started it, Huma replied, and Turi tried to finish it.
Of course, if you would rather be the victim, I am sure I could find a few people in RhyDin would be willing to victimize you.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
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From: genperri@aol.com (Gen Perri)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:56:08 EDT
Exactly, Rix:
After all, the histories recall my adroit shutting out of Adonai in six rounds "a duel where only two attacks connected."
Moreover, the histories are sometimes incompletely done. Under the history of Dalamar's reign, it fails to mention that my challenge to the crown was out of right by tourney prize.
If anyone is about to whine "Perri, why didn't you say something to the History Keeper(whoever it is right now)," I reply: I'm busy.
Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:56:08 EDT
Exactly, Rix:
After all, the histories recall my adroit shutting out of Adonai in six rounds "a duel where only two attacks connected."
Moreover, the histories are sometimes incompletely done. Under the history of Dalamar's reign, it fails to mention that my challenge to the crown was out of right by tourney prize.
If anyone is about to whine "Perri, why didn't you say something to the History Keeper(whoever it is right now)," I reply: I'm busy.
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:05:41 EDT
It is unfortunate ye wish to further drag our sport through meaningless debate, Percival. My comment was a side-comment. Turi actually started the debate, using her uniform as reinforcement of her opinions, I might add. Such is life. Can we please move on to perhaps something even slightly productive?
~Lupton
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:05:41 EDT
It is unfortunate ye wish to further drag our sport through meaningless debate, Percival. My comment was a side-comment. Turi actually started the debate, using her uniform as reinforcement of her opinions, I might add. Such is life. Can we please move on to perhaps something even slightly productive?
~Lupton
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:19:59 EDT
"My comment was a side-comment. Turi actually started the debate, using her uniform as reinforcement of her opinions, I might add."
Baron, in a word or two, horse hockey. You and Huma were already arguing quite vehemently before Turi ever ventured her own opinion. If you are going to be dishonest, you will have to come up with a better way to do it. Perhaps if you told lies when no one knew the truth, instead of being so obvious?
Percival
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:19:59 EDT
"My comment was a side-comment. Turi actually started the debate, using her uniform as reinforcement of her opinions, I might add."
Baron, in a word or two, horse hockey. You and Huma were already arguing quite vehemently before Turi ever ventured her own opinion. If you are going to be dishonest, you will have to come up with a better way to do it. Perhaps if you told lies when no one knew the truth, instead of being so obvious?
Percival
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:28:46 EDT
Percival,
Of all the things I am, I am not a liar. May ye die a slow and awful death by the teeth of rats and diseased infestations.
~Lupton
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:28:46 EDT
Percival,
Of all the things I am, I am not a liar. May ye die a slow and awful death by the teeth of rats and diseased infestations.
~Lupton
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:31:26 EDT
...Reads Lupton's post and carefully considers all the implications, then bursts out laughing...
He obviously knows I am right.
((Not a Post))
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:31:26 EDT
...Reads Lupton's post and carefully considers all the implications, then bursts out laughing...
He obviously knows I am right.
((Not a Post))
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:54:03 EDT
Lupton.. if ye've a complaint on Turi as a member of the staff take it up wit' Helix..
As to the histories.. remember that she is only responsible for what was added during her tenure.
I notice that the history reflects this..
The next morning the Overlord found a missive awaiting him, a challenge from Lord Draven Altruis. Incessed by the lack of respect in so swift an action on the heels of his match, he prepared to meet this latest challenger. This time Baroness Ellisa Morgan was the Overlord's chosen champion, and in 15 grueling rounds defeated the would-be usurper 5-4.
==
It doesn't however reflect that Dal agreed to give Draven an Intercession free challenge by agreement with Valmion. Upon breakage of the agreement with Valmion neither had the decency to inform him of the change.
What incited my anger was and still is not the revocation of the promise, but the failure of both of these men to inform the challenger of it.
The histories are a bit biased.. however, I suppose bias depends on who is reading, no?
Just for note.. it should be
Incensed 1 archaic : to cause (a passion or emotion) to become aroused
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:54:03 EDT
Lupton.. if ye've a complaint on Turi as a member of the staff take it up wit' Helix..
As to the histories.. remember that she is only responsible for what was added during her tenure.
I notice that the history reflects this..
The next morning the Overlord found a missive awaiting him, a challenge from Lord Draven Altruis. Incessed by the lack of respect in so swift an action on the heels of his match, he prepared to meet this latest challenger. This time Baroness Ellisa Morgan was the Overlord's chosen champion, and in 15 grueling rounds defeated the would-be usurper 5-4.
==
It doesn't however reflect that Dal agreed to give Draven an Intercession free challenge by agreement with Valmion. Upon breakage of the agreement with Valmion neither had the decency to inform him of the change.
What incited my anger was and still is not the revocation of the promise, but the failure of both of these men to inform the challenger of it.
The histories are a bit biased.. however, I suppose bias depends on who is reading, no?
Just for note.. it should be
Incensed 1 archaic : to cause (a passion or emotion) to become aroused
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
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From: lordovdale@aol.com (LordovDale)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 19:08:17 EDT
Collie,
Firstly, it is unfair to cite the histories as being biased in that instance, because very few people were privy to the information you are referring to. There is no *bias* taking place; at worst, it would be considered an uninformed passage. Although, considering the varying opinion on what you've brought up, that can hardly be considered the case.
Secondly, it is again absurd to insinuate a bias in this instance because, if you'll notice, the histories never make any claims about why or why not the I utilized the test, the best of three, or neither. In fact, there are very few (and I stress this; I am not trying to say there are *none*) things mentioned in the Overlord History that are anything but fact, scores, or clear public knowledge. So not discussing the dealing of Lord Valmion and me
in this instance is hardly bias. Rather, you should call it by what it truly is: objective. I just felt it necessary to correct the notion that, in this instance, the histories were biased.
-Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon
Overlord of the Duel of Swords
Lord of the Dale
Guardian of the Oldest House
Date: 28 Sep 1998 19:08:17 EDT
Collie,
Firstly, it is unfair to cite the histories as being biased in that instance, because very few people were privy to the information you are referring to. There is no *bias* taking place; at worst, it would be considered an uninformed passage. Although, considering the varying opinion on what you've brought up, that can hardly be considered the case.
Secondly, it is again absurd to insinuate a bias in this instance because, if you'll notice, the histories never make any claims about why or why not the I utilized the test, the best of three, or neither. In fact, there are very few (and I stress this; I am not trying to say there are *none*) things mentioned in the Overlord History that are anything but fact, scores, or clear public knowledge. So not discussing the dealing of Lord Valmion and me
in this instance is hardly bias. Rather, you should call it by what it truly is: objective. I just felt it necessary to correct the notion that, in this instance, the histories were biased.
-Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon
Overlord of the Duel of Swords
Lord of the Dale
Guardian of the Oldest House
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From: valmion@aol.com (Valmion)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 20:57:13 EDT
Collie,
I must add my comments here also, since it is my name being drug into this conversation. Lets let history recall correctly;
1) I did approach the Overlord, Dalamar, about an intercession free challenge for your then consort, Lord Draven. I did this because, at the time, Lord Draven was a member of House Questrion. I came away from that meeting with an verbal agreement from the Overlord that Lord Draven would have an intercession free challenge.
2) Lord Draven resigns from House Questrion, in a not so pleasent manner.
3) I approached the Overlord once more about, not only interceeding against Lord Draven, but to let me be the one to intercede. History will note that the Overlord declined my offer of intercession.
Now Collie, I will also add, that in the six plus years that I have known Lord Dalamar, this request for your consort strained my friendship with him like no other event in that time period. I am sure the Overlord will back up these words of truth.
Sincerely,
Lord Valmion
Date: 28 Sep 1998 20:57:13 EDT
Collie,
I must add my comments here also, since it is my name being drug into this conversation. Lets let history recall correctly;
1) I did approach the Overlord, Dalamar, about an intercession free challenge for your then consort, Lord Draven. I did this because, at the time, Lord Draven was a member of House Questrion. I came away from that meeting with an verbal agreement from the Overlord that Lord Draven would have an intercession free challenge.
2) Lord Draven resigns from House Questrion, in a not so pleasent manner.
3) I approached the Overlord once more about, not only interceeding against Lord Draven, but to let me be the one to intercede. History will note that the Overlord declined my offer of intercession.
Now Collie, I will also add, that in the six plus years that I have known Lord Dalamar, this request for your consort strained my friendship with him like no other event in that time period. I am sure the Overlord will back up these words of truth.
Sincerely,
Lord Valmion
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 28 Sep 1998 21:05:06 EDT
Lupton, Percival, Turi et. al.
Firstly to Lupton - It is unfortunate that you continue to emphasize Turi's "in uniform" status at having written her missive. Since it makes little difference what she was or was not wearing while penning the missive, I must assume that your issue with the signature line of "Historian, Duel of Swords." I would imagine that she is as entitled to use that title as Percival is to using "the white duke." Again, I must assume that your issue further
is that she be a member of the staff. DoS, fortunately for us, is staffed by volunteers however, each of them having their own involvement with the sport and volunteering out of their love of it. I would offer that these people should not be censured for doing us the favor of volunteering their time.
That said, I must address Percival and those who claim Lupton began this debate. It was not his words that brought about the historical comparisons, but rather the desire of those arguing against him to not only prove him wrong but embarrass him in the process. Lupton mentioned that he found Huma's claim of being one of the best to be humorous and in defense of such statement offered evidence from the Histories. The historical note, in itself,
cannot affect Huma's impression, but as written it can be seen how one would draw the opposite viewpoint from it... as Lupton has.
Never, that I saw, did Lupton claim to be better than Huma. As such, the in depth comparison of Lupton's record to Huma's record is baseless and does nothing to further the discussion. Rather, it appears to be a cheap shot aimed at demeaning the Baron, rather than defending the warlord's claim of being one of the best.
Percival, you've been fond of saying we should debate issues, not people. I'm curious as to just what you thought the issue of the current argument to be, for this certainly appears to be a string of attacks on Lupton.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
Date: 28 Sep 1998 21:05:06 EDT
Lupton, Percival, Turi et. al.
Firstly to Lupton - It is unfortunate that you continue to emphasize Turi's "in uniform" status at having written her missive. Since it makes little difference what she was or was not wearing while penning the missive, I must assume that your issue with the signature line of "Historian, Duel of Swords." I would imagine that she is as entitled to use that title as Percival is to using "the white duke." Again, I must assume that your issue further
is that she be a member of the staff. DoS, fortunately for us, is staffed by volunteers however, each of them having their own involvement with the sport and volunteering out of their love of it. I would offer that these people should not be censured for doing us the favor of volunteering their time.
That said, I must address Percival and those who claim Lupton began this debate. It was not his words that brought about the historical comparisons, but rather the desire of those arguing against him to not only prove him wrong but embarrass him in the process. Lupton mentioned that he found Huma's claim of being one of the best to be humorous and in defense of such statement offered evidence from the Histories. The historical note, in itself,
cannot affect Huma's impression, but as written it can be seen how one would draw the opposite viewpoint from it... as Lupton has.
Never, that I saw, did Lupton claim to be better than Huma. As such, the in depth comparison of Lupton's record to Huma's record is baseless and does nothing to further the discussion. Rather, it appears to be a cheap shot aimed at demeaning the Baron, rather than defending the warlord's claim of being one of the best.
Percival, you've been fond of saying we should debate issues, not people. I'm curious as to just what you thought the issue of the current argument to be, for this certainly appears to be a string of attacks on Lupton.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 29 Sep 1998 03:35:49 EDT
Valmion.. Dal..
Simple straight forward question.. Did either of you tell Draven the bargain was broken?
Regardless of his leaving Questrion or other factors.. did one of you tell him?
If I am wrong and one of you did inform him, personally, i.e. not tell someone else to do so, I will stand corrected and publically appologize.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
Date: 29 Sep 1998 03:35:49 EDT
Valmion.. Dal..
Simple straight forward question.. Did either of you tell Draven the bargain was broken?
Regardless of his leaving Questrion or other factors.. did one of you tell him?
If I am wrong and one of you did inform him, personally, i.e. not tell someone else to do so, I will stand corrected and publically appologize.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher