From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 00:41:05 EST
>>Perhaps thou might ponder the wherefores and reasons some have chosen to question me upon family matters, rather than addressing the issue of the Baroness.<<
I have to respond to this. Several people have addressed the issue of the Baroness. The facts have been made public, and the public record of the facts jibes against your version of them. Despite this, you continue to slander a good woman.
It comes down to this. The facts of this case are not on your side. Continuing to misrepresent them will not change them. I see no need to repeat the statements made by Jola, Jaycy, or Collie regarding facts, nor my own. It basically comes down, as I said, to one thing.
Helix made a mistake. Helix and Golden chose to correct this mistake by allowing Jaycy's challenge to go ahead. If you really have to blame someone, blame the officials. They made the decision. It is that simple.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 14:19:24 EST
Percival,
The facts are that Madame Ashleana, knowingly, didst present improper challenge. The fact is that the challenge was ruled invalid by he that had the duty to so rule. The fact is that Madame Ashleana hast stated her servant did seek to have that proper ruling overturned. The fact is Madame Ashleana has pleaded ignorance of her servants actions as well as pleading that he had no knowledge of the rules of engagement. The fact is Madame Ashleana was
at the time a warlord and an official of this "sport". The fact is, Madame Ashleana's servant had access to the rules of engagement as reported by Hubie and Aloysius. Both lads are still recovering. Wandering back in time through portals is rather wearing on the lads. Servants gossip, not withstanding, those are the facts.
Decry and declaim as thee will. Percival, one must accept responsibility for one's own actions. The error was made by Madame Ashleana. Bonafide challenges could not be made due to her machinations. Thee hast more oft than nae declaimed that sportsmanship is paramount. Where be the sportsmanship in this matter, Percival? If that be thine definition of sportsmanship, honesty and honor, do declaim more oft for I am sure everyone would be pleased to
know thou hast rewritten the meaning of such words. Was it nae thee who so decried during the matter of Dalamar and Huma that the "rules" should be followed? Tis seeming in this case what was good for the gander, thou wouldst nae have applied to the goose.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.
Date: 20 Nov 1998 14:19:24 EST
Percival,
The facts are that Madame Ashleana, knowingly, didst present improper challenge. The fact is that the challenge was ruled invalid by he that had the duty to so rule. The fact is that Madame Ashleana hast stated her servant did seek to have that proper ruling overturned. The fact is Madame Ashleana has pleaded ignorance of her servants actions as well as pleading that he had no knowledge of the rules of engagement. The fact is Madame Ashleana was
at the time a warlord and an official of this "sport". The fact is, Madame Ashleana's servant had access to the rules of engagement as reported by Hubie and Aloysius. Both lads are still recovering. Wandering back in time through portals is rather wearing on the lads. Servants gossip, not withstanding, those are the facts.
Decry and declaim as thee will. Percival, one must accept responsibility for one's own actions. The error was made by Madame Ashleana. Bonafide challenges could not be made due to her machinations. Thee hast more oft than nae declaimed that sportsmanship is paramount. Where be the sportsmanship in this matter, Percival? If that be thine definition of sportsmanship, honesty and honor, do declaim more oft for I am sure everyone would be pleased to
know thou hast rewritten the meaning of such words. Was it nae thee who so decried during the matter of Dalamar and Huma that the "rules" should be followed? Tis seeming in this case what was good for the gander, thou wouldst nae have applied to the goose.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 14:31:12 EST
>>Thee hast more oft than nae declaimed that sportsmanship is paramount. Where be the sportsmanship in this matter, Percival?<<
Where is the sportsmanship in forcing the challenger to suffer for erroneous information given to them by an official? Where is the sportsmanship in slandering the name of a good woman despite being contradicted by all the actual facts? Where is the sportsmanship in trying to blame someone for the actions and errors of others? Most of all, where is the sportsmanship in personally insulting those who support the facts and are doing their best to
inform you of the real circumstances, of which you were so obviously ignorant at first.
When people try to help you it is a bad policy to attack them.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 20 Nov 1998 14:31:12 EST
>>Thee hast more oft than nae declaimed that sportsmanship is paramount. Where be the sportsmanship in this matter, Percival?<<
Where is the sportsmanship in forcing the challenger to suffer for erroneous information given to them by an official? Where is the sportsmanship in slandering the name of a good woman despite being contradicted by all the actual facts? Where is the sportsmanship in trying to blame someone for the actions and errors of others? Most of all, where is the sportsmanship in personally insulting those who support the facts and are doing their best to
inform you of the real circumstances, of which you were so obviously ignorant at first.
When people try to help you it is a bad policy to attack them.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 15:14:32 EST
Comes upon Percival's reply, noting as usual his complete disregard for the actual events, just laughs softly.
Percival,
Tis so grand to know that thou dost consider cheating, flouting and disregarding the rules of engagement, sportsmanlike and honorable with nae regard at all to who hast done so. I do thank thee for apprising the community of thine stance. I am come to consider that, in future, shouldst thou deign to challenge for title, thou wouldst think nae a thing of behaving in the manner thou hast so heartily condoned.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.
Date: 20 Nov 1998 15:14:32 EST
Comes upon Percival's reply, noting as usual his complete disregard for the actual events, just laughs softly.
Percival,
Tis so grand to know that thou dost consider cheating, flouting and disregarding the rules of engagement, sportsmanlike and honorable with nae regard at all to who hast done so. I do thank thee for apprising the community of thine stance. I am come to consider that, in future, shouldst thou deign to challenge for title, thou wouldst think nae a thing of behaving in the manner thou hast so heartily condoned.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 15:25:29 EST
>>Percival,
Tis so grand to know that thou dost consider cheating, flouting and disregarding the rules of engagement, sportsmanlike and honorable with nae regard at all to who hast done so. I do thank thee for apprising the community of thine stance. I am come to consider that, in future, shouldst thou deign to challenge for title, thou wouldst think nae a thing of behaving in the manner thou hast so heartily condoned.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.<<
The White Duke reads this thoughtfully and carefully. He laughs to himself and shakes his head. He ponders a reply, then shakes his head again. After consideration he does tack up a post.
*****************************************************
Jona,
I thought about saying something to this, but there is no need to do so. As all know I have challenged before, and as all know I will most likely do so again. I would argue with you, but there is no need. Every time you post, you do more to argue the case of Jaycynda than anyone else possibly could do so. I see no need to defend myself or anyone elsee, anymore, against someone who obviously does not know the facts at all and does not care to
know them. You insult yourself better than I ever could, so why should I sink to your level?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
To all,
I see no need for myself or anyone else to continue to post to this thread unless someone posts an intelligent argument. If all Jona is going to do is shovel manure, we have no reason to put it into baskets.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 20 Nov 1998 15:25:29 EST
>>Percival,
Tis so grand to know that thou dost consider cheating, flouting and disregarding the rules of engagement, sportsmanlike and honorable with nae regard at all to who hast done so. I do thank thee for apprising the community of thine stance. I am come to consider that, in future, shouldst thou deign to challenge for title, thou wouldst think nae a thing of behaving in the manner thou hast so heartily condoned.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.<<
The White Duke reads this thoughtfully and carefully. He laughs to himself and shakes his head. He ponders a reply, then shakes his head again. After consideration he does tack up a post.
*****************************************************
Jona,
I thought about saying something to this, but there is no need to do so. As all know I have challenged before, and as all know I will most likely do so again. I would argue with you, but there is no need. Every time you post, you do more to argue the case of Jaycynda than anyone else possibly could do so. I see no need to defend myself or anyone elsee, anymore, against someone who obviously does not know the facts at all and does not care to
know them. You insult yourself better than I ever could, so why should I sink to your level?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
To all,
I see no need for myself or anyone else to continue to post to this thread unless someone posts an intelligent argument. If all Jona is going to do is shovel manure, we have no reason to put it into baskets.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 16:28:20 EST
" Where is the sportsmanship in trying to blame someone for the actions and errors of others?"
A very good question. One could make the argument that Jaycynda should not be blaming her servant for issuing the challenge improperly or blaming Helix for allowing it to go through.
At this point, the best thing, in my opinion, is for those involved to take responsibility for what they did. So far, all I have seen is Jaycynda placing responsibility first on Helix, then her servant. Perhaps if the proper chain of command had been employed, this never would have happened. However, we do not live in a world of woulds, coulds, shoulds, do we?
Perhaps Jonalyn is not looking for continued rationalizations of actions. Perhaps she is looking for Jaycynda to take responsibility for whatever part she took in breaking the rules and going over heads to push her challenge through and denying others the chance to serve challenge legally. Perhaps Jonalyn would like to see Jaycynda recognize that what she did was wrong and illegal and admit to it publicly.
It may not bother you that this happened, but I question what looks like a double standard on your part. I do not understand why you harped on and on about the alleged illegality of something that was never clearly defined in the rules just because you find yourself in opposition to the Overlord, but yet you will disregard a very obvious violation of a very clearly defined rule just because you happen to be fond of Jaycynda.
Date: 20 Nov 1998 16:28:20 EST
" Where is the sportsmanship in trying to blame someone for the actions and errors of others?"
A very good question. One could make the argument that Jaycynda should not be blaming her servant for issuing the challenge improperly or blaming Helix for allowing it to go through.
At this point, the best thing, in my opinion, is for those involved to take responsibility for what they did. So far, all I have seen is Jaycynda placing responsibility first on Helix, then her servant. Perhaps if the proper chain of command had been employed, this never would have happened. However, we do not live in a world of woulds, coulds, shoulds, do we?
Perhaps Jonalyn is not looking for continued rationalizations of actions. Perhaps she is looking for Jaycynda to take responsibility for whatever part she took in breaking the rules and going over heads to push her challenge through and denying others the chance to serve challenge legally. Perhaps Jonalyn would like to see Jaycynda recognize that what she did was wrong and illegal and admit to it publicly.
It may not bother you that this happened, but I question what looks like a double standard on your part. I do not understand why you harped on and on about the alleged illegality of something that was never clearly defined in the rules just because you find yourself in opposition to the Overlord, but yet you will disregard a very obvious violation of a very clearly defined rule just because you happen to be fond of Jaycynda.
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 16:43:29 EST
>> Perhaps Jonalyn would like to see Jaycynda recognize that what she did was wrong and illegal and admit to it publicly.<<
Morgan, Jaycy did nothing wrong or illegal. A mistake was made by Helix, which harmed Jaycy. Helix then chose to correct that mistake, in a way that undid the harm. If you have a problem with Helix's decision, take it up with Helix and Golden, who together made the decision. Do not blame Jaycy for it.
These are the facts. Actions taken while Jaycynda was out of RhyDin by others are not her fault. People made mistakes, and the OFFICIALS of the Sport took steps to correct the errors.
More importantly, I object to people insulting others for no reason than they disagree with them. You and Jonalyn have both called others liars and questioned their ethics and/or honour, for no reason other than they disagreed with you. In many cultures the act of calling someone else a liar is an invitation to a combat to the death. It is certainly a deadly insult that both you and Jonalyn seem to toss about much too easily.
In response, people have tried to show the facts of the case. Facts that Jonalyn only knows about second hand, and which she has badly misstated in several isntances. People with first hand knowledge have attempted to show the truth to someone with second hand knowledge, to correct her mistakes. In response we have been called liars and worse by people who do not know the facts of the case.
Tell me, why is it necessary to personally slander those who know and willingly share the truth? Especially when neither you, nor Jonalyn know all the particulars of the event? You, especially, seem to be completely basing your arguments on Jonalyn's statements. Jonalyn only knows what she has pieced together, and refuses to accept the facts when they are presented.
It makes me wonder why we are even having this discussion? Until you have spoken with Helix, Golden, Evan, and Jaycy who know everything, or myself, who knows most of it, at length, about what really happened, do not presume to tell the rest of us.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 20 Nov 1998 16:43:29 EST
>> Perhaps Jonalyn would like to see Jaycynda recognize that what she did was wrong and illegal and admit to it publicly.<<
Morgan, Jaycy did nothing wrong or illegal. A mistake was made by Helix, which harmed Jaycy. Helix then chose to correct that mistake, in a way that undid the harm. If you have a problem with Helix's decision, take it up with Helix and Golden, who together made the decision. Do not blame Jaycy for it.
These are the facts. Actions taken while Jaycynda was out of RhyDin by others are not her fault. People made mistakes, and the OFFICIALS of the Sport took steps to correct the errors.
More importantly, I object to people insulting others for no reason than they disagree with them. You and Jonalyn have both called others liars and questioned their ethics and/or honour, for no reason other than they disagreed with you. In many cultures the act of calling someone else a liar is an invitation to a combat to the death. It is certainly a deadly insult that both you and Jonalyn seem to toss about much too easily.
In response, people have tried to show the facts of the case. Facts that Jonalyn only knows about second hand, and which she has badly misstated in several isntances. People with first hand knowledge have attempted to show the truth to someone with second hand knowledge, to correct her mistakes. In response we have been called liars and worse by people who do not know the facts of the case.
Tell me, why is it necessary to personally slander those who know and willingly share the truth? Especially when neither you, nor Jonalyn know all the particulars of the event? You, especially, seem to be completely basing your arguments on Jonalyn's statements. Jonalyn only knows what she has pieced together, and refuses to accept the facts when they are presented.
It makes me wonder why we are even having this discussion? Until you have spoken with Helix, Golden, Evan, and Jaycy who know everything, or myself, who knows most of it, at length, about what really happened, do not presume to tell the rest of us.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 17:19:13 EST
Percival,
Thou seems to fail to notice that thou hast thrown deadly insult upon both mineself and upon the Baroness Morgan. Thou hast done little save cast insult upon me for stating the information that both I and Jaycynda do well know is the truth. The Baroness Ashleana hast nae the effrontery to call me a liar. M'lord Evermeadow has nae called me a liar. The former Baron Evan Rush Lynth hast nae had the effrontery to call me a liar. Madame Helix hast
nae had the effrontery to call me a liar. And thee, sirrah, presume to dare state that thee object to people insulting others for no reason other than that they disagree? Thou art a hypocrite, sirrah. Thou hast slandered mine good name, thou hast made baseless and slanderous accusations, the likes of which come as no surprise, considering their source. I do pity those under thine boot, Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont.
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.
Date: 20 Nov 1998 17:19:13 EST
Percival,
Thou seems to fail to notice that thou hast thrown deadly insult upon both mineself and upon the Baroness Morgan. Thou hast done little save cast insult upon me for stating the information that both I and Jaycynda do well know is the truth. The Baroness Ashleana hast nae the effrontery to call me a liar. M'lord Evermeadow has nae called me a liar. The former Baron Evan Rush Lynth hast nae had the effrontery to call me a liar. Madame Helix hast
nae had the effrontery to call me a liar. And thee, sirrah, presume to dare state that thee object to people insulting others for no reason other than that they disagree? Thou art a hypocrite, sirrah. Thou hast slandered mine good name, thou hast made baseless and slanderous accusations, the likes of which come as no surprise, considering their source. I do pity those under thine boot, Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont.
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare.
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 19:31:11 EST
"Jaycy did nothing wrong or illegal."
Yes, she did, if you had taken the time to read the rules and understand them, you would know this. Helix made a decision to allow the improper challenge to go forth. That does not render the challenge legal, it merely says an exception was made.
"Helix then chose to correct that mistake, in a way that undid the harm."
Undid the harm to whom? What you refuse to acknowledge is that it harmed the person who's challenge was ignored, though properly served, who has the misfortune to not be an official, and who may or may not have a special relationship with the then-Supervisor to press his grievance. It harmed the baron, who was illegally challenged and was not afforded the opportunity to press a grievance. It harmed Golden, who invalidated the challenge, then had
to abide by Helix ignoring the rules, second-guessing him, then allowing the challenge to commence despite its illegality without affording him an opportunity to press his grievance at such blatant mistreatment and disregard for his position.
"You and Jonalyn have both called others liars and questioned their ethics and/or honour, for no reason other than they disagreed with you."
I call you a liar and question your "ethics" because you fabricate rules that are not there to support your emotional and irrational arguments then turn around and blatantly disregard a very clearly written rule in order to bolster your belief that to "pass the buck" is quite acceptable when your friends are involved. I most certainly DO disagree with such tactics and unreasonable stances and take steps to be crystal clear exactly WHY I find such
behavior despicable. I need no other reason to disagree with someone other than I find the attitude, tactics, and actions supporting the lies no less than contemptible.
"Tell me, why is it necessary to personally slander those who know and willingly share the truth?"
I would only be able to answer this question if I believed this to be true. I do most earnestly believe that Jaycynda is responsible for the actions of her servants and do most earnestly believe that Jaycynda was allowed to challenge despite it being illegal. It does not matter who allowed it, really, the fact that it was illegal by the very writ of the rules, is the fact and the truth applicable to this situation. It is not Jaycynda's fault that
she was granted permission to pursue a tainted challenge, however, because she chose to continue with her challenge with Helix's approval, it is her responsibility to own up to the fact that her ring was attained by disregarding the rules and own up to what her servant did to bring that about. That, Percival, is Jonalyn's complaint.
"Especially when neither you, nor Jonalyn know all the particulars of the event?"
Let me see if I know the particulars: Jaycynda (either herself or via a personal servant) issued challenge for the Third Ring using peer wins that had not been yet posted in the standings. The timestamp on her letter is 10/6/98 7:28:03 AM ((Eastern Daylight Time, taken directly from email sent to Morgan and others)). Golden ruled the challenge invalid as he had not posted the standings prior to the issue of the challenge letter. Someone, either
Jaycynda or her servant or someone else, approached Helix, then-Supervisor, about the situation, and Helix, who may or may not have known the particulars that Golden would have known, overturned Golden's ruling that the challenge was invalid. Jaycynda pursued the challenge and won.
It is precisely those particulars I am using to ask questions regarding and then formulating my opinions, If you have a problem with my method of extracting as many of the particulars as I am able and then further forming my own opinion on the matter and then discussing such with as much reason and as little emotion as I am able to muster, then I do not know what else to tell you except "grow up." I find very few of your stances and methods of
voicing such to be appealing, wise, or even remotely sound, so forgive me for refusing to be silent in the face of your illogical, emotional, and groundless ramblings. I do not suffer ignorance and lies lightly, especially when couched in vocabulary that tries feebly to disguise its very baseness. Though you may think your thinly veiled threats of violence and your specious debate tactics to be clever enough to detract attention from your weak
argument, it does not make it so, and, simply, you are gravely mistaken to presume I will ignore your diatribes simply because you like to hear yourself talk.
Morgan du Cornwall
Baron, 5th Ring
Date: 20 Nov 1998 19:31:11 EST
"Jaycy did nothing wrong or illegal."
Yes, she did, if you had taken the time to read the rules and understand them, you would know this. Helix made a decision to allow the improper challenge to go forth. That does not render the challenge legal, it merely says an exception was made.
"Helix then chose to correct that mistake, in a way that undid the harm."
Undid the harm to whom? What you refuse to acknowledge is that it harmed the person who's challenge was ignored, though properly served, who has the misfortune to not be an official, and who may or may not have a special relationship with the then-Supervisor to press his grievance. It harmed the baron, who was illegally challenged and was not afforded the opportunity to press a grievance. It harmed Golden, who invalidated the challenge, then had
to abide by Helix ignoring the rules, second-guessing him, then allowing the challenge to commence despite its illegality without affording him an opportunity to press his grievance at such blatant mistreatment and disregard for his position.
"You and Jonalyn have both called others liars and questioned their ethics and/or honour, for no reason other than they disagreed with you."
I call you a liar and question your "ethics" because you fabricate rules that are not there to support your emotional and irrational arguments then turn around and blatantly disregard a very clearly written rule in order to bolster your belief that to "pass the buck" is quite acceptable when your friends are involved. I most certainly DO disagree with such tactics and unreasonable stances and take steps to be crystal clear exactly WHY I find such
behavior despicable. I need no other reason to disagree with someone other than I find the attitude, tactics, and actions supporting the lies no less than contemptible.
"Tell me, why is it necessary to personally slander those who know and willingly share the truth?"
I would only be able to answer this question if I believed this to be true. I do most earnestly believe that Jaycynda is responsible for the actions of her servants and do most earnestly believe that Jaycynda was allowed to challenge despite it being illegal. It does not matter who allowed it, really, the fact that it was illegal by the very writ of the rules, is the fact and the truth applicable to this situation. It is not Jaycynda's fault that
she was granted permission to pursue a tainted challenge, however, because she chose to continue with her challenge with Helix's approval, it is her responsibility to own up to the fact that her ring was attained by disregarding the rules and own up to what her servant did to bring that about. That, Percival, is Jonalyn's complaint.
"Especially when neither you, nor Jonalyn know all the particulars of the event?"
Let me see if I know the particulars: Jaycynda (either herself or via a personal servant) issued challenge for the Third Ring using peer wins that had not been yet posted in the standings. The timestamp on her letter is 10/6/98 7:28:03 AM ((Eastern Daylight Time, taken directly from email sent to Morgan and others)). Golden ruled the challenge invalid as he had not posted the standings prior to the issue of the challenge letter. Someone, either
Jaycynda or her servant or someone else, approached Helix, then-Supervisor, about the situation, and Helix, who may or may not have known the particulars that Golden would have known, overturned Golden's ruling that the challenge was invalid. Jaycynda pursued the challenge and won.
It is precisely those particulars I am using to ask questions regarding and then formulating my opinions, If you have a problem with my method of extracting as many of the particulars as I am able and then further forming my own opinion on the matter and then discussing such with as much reason and as little emotion as I am able to muster, then I do not know what else to tell you except "grow up." I find very few of your stances and methods of
voicing such to be appealing, wise, or even remotely sound, so forgive me for refusing to be silent in the face of your illogical, emotional, and groundless ramblings. I do not suffer ignorance and lies lightly, especially when couched in vocabulary that tries feebly to disguise its very baseness. Though you may think your thinly veiled threats of violence and your specious debate tactics to be clever enough to detract attention from your weak
argument, it does not make it so, and, simply, you are gravely mistaken to presume I will ignore your diatribes simply because you like to hear yourself talk.
Morgan du Cornwall
Baron, 5th Ring
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 20:36:29 EST
M'Lady du Cornwall.
I believe you left out one of the particulars in your list of the events that occured, though I am certainly not one who is privileged to know everything that happened.
You write: "Let me see if I know the particulars: Jaycynda (either herself or via a personal servant) issued challenge for the Third Ring using peer wins that had not been yet posted in the standings. The timestamp on her letter is 10/6/98 7:28:03 AM ((Eastern Daylight Time, taken directly from email sent to Morgan and others)). Golden ruled the challenge invalid as he had not posted the standings prior to the
issue of the challenge letter. Someone, either Jaycynda or her servant or someone else, approached Helix, then-Supervisor, about the situation, and Helix, who may or may not have known the particulars that Golden would have known, overturned Golden's ruling that the challenge was invalid. Jaycynda pursued the challenge and won."
According to what I have read from Lady Ashleana's own statement on this matter... Her servent first approached Helix, stating that, as Jaycynda was not in the Realm, nor expected to be in the Realm, would it be proper for him to send out the missives issuing her challenge for her -at that time-. And, at that time, he was told yes.
And before you bring up my stance of Neutrality, please note that only applies to the Crown. In this case, as in others, I am only attempting to see that all the facts are considered.
Thank you for your time.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
Date: 20 Nov 1998 20:36:29 EST
M'Lady du Cornwall.
I believe you left out one of the particulars in your list of the events that occured, though I am certainly not one who is privileged to know everything that happened.
You write: "Let me see if I know the particulars: Jaycynda (either herself or via a personal servant) issued challenge for the Third Ring using peer wins that had not been yet posted in the standings. The timestamp on her letter is 10/6/98 7:28:03 AM ((Eastern Daylight Time, taken directly from email sent to Morgan and others)). Golden ruled the challenge invalid as he had not posted the standings prior to the
issue of the challenge letter. Someone, either Jaycynda or her servant or someone else, approached Helix, then-Supervisor, about the situation, and Helix, who may or may not have known the particulars that Golden would have known, overturned Golden's ruling that the challenge was invalid. Jaycynda pursued the challenge and won."
According to what I have read from Lady Ashleana's own statement on this matter... Her servent first approached Helix, stating that, as Jaycynda was not in the Realm, nor expected to be in the Realm, would it be proper for him to send out the missives issuing her challenge for her -at that time-. And, at that time, he was told yes.
And before you bring up my stance of Neutrality, please note that only applies to the Crown. In this case, as in others, I am only attempting to see that all the facts are considered.
Thank you for your time.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
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From: rixfavre@aol.com (Rix Favre)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 22:19:32 EST
Morgan,
Certainly a good thing that if anyone has any problems with Jaycynda and how she earned her ring they can challenge her, right?
I do not see the need to continue to harp on and keep writing about her challenge on the boards. If it truly upsets you so much, I would suggest you retire your ring and issue challenge to Jaycy. Otherwise, continued posts about the subject are nothing but pointless attacks.
-Rix
Date: 20 Nov 1998 22:19:32 EST
Morgan,
Certainly a good thing that if anyone has any problems with Jaycynda and how she earned her ring they can challenge her, right?
I do not see the need to continue to harp on and keep writing about her challenge on the boards. If it truly upsets you so much, I would suggest you retire your ring and issue challenge to Jaycy. Otherwise, continued posts about the subject are nothing but pointless attacks.
-Rix
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 22:47:32 EST
Rix,
Thank ye for again being a sole intelligent comment amidst piles of worthless words. Let us all remember that we are duelists, and in this venue matters can be ended silently.
~Lupton
Date: 20 Nov 1998 22:47:32 EST
Rix,
Thank ye for again being a sole intelligent comment amidst piles of worthless words. Let us all remember that we are duelists, and in this venue matters can be ended silently.
~Lupton
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:16:13 EST
Rix and Lupton,
Are we such a savage community dat debate is no longer a useful tool fer settlin' arguments? Shutup and duel. Hmm, I tried dat with Huma and just look at da hornet's nest it stirred up. We are not just duelers, we are people, with inquistive and challengin' minds. Ta call fer a silence, ta ask all matters be decided by a duel is foolish. Some arguments can't be won with a blade, and some people will not be silenced by a sword. Da pen is
mightier dan da sword, sometimes dis statement rings more true dan ya could ever imagine.
Let da debates continue so long as da people wish ta hold 'em. If ya don't like what's bein' said don't read it.
~J
Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:16:13 EST
Rix and Lupton,
Are we such a savage community dat debate is no longer a useful tool fer settlin' arguments? Shutup and duel. Hmm, I tried dat with Huma and just look at da hornet's nest it stirred up. We are not just duelers, we are people, with inquistive and challengin' minds. Ta call fer a silence, ta ask all matters be decided by a duel is foolish. Some arguments can't be won with a blade, and some people will not be silenced by a sword. Da pen is
mightier dan da sword, sometimes dis statement rings more true dan ya could ever imagine.
Let da debates continue so long as da people wish ta hold 'em. If ya don't like what's bein' said don't read it.
~J
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:44:17 EST
Drakewyn,
Thank you for the information you included. I found it helpful. Other than the order of incidents, would there be anything else incorrect about the particulars?
Sincerely,
Morgan
Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:44:17 EST
Drakewyn,
Thank you for the information you included. I found it helpful. Other than the order of incidents, would there be anything else incorrect about the particulars?
Sincerely,
Morgan
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:59:45 EST
What "truly upsets me so mjuch," Rix, is the insane amount of attack Jonalyn has been under simply because she finds the matter of boldly breaking a rule to be so distasteful.
Jona has a valid claim. She does not deserve the topic being turned to anything other than her point regarding Jaycynda's challenge, which is what has happened each time Jonalyn utters the slightest of opinions lately. I will not sit by while people cast insults to her rather than addressing her claims. I find that Jonalyn is one of the people under pointless attacks simply because she spoke up against a beloved dueler's actions.
To reiterate something I said earlier, I believe Jaycynda to do the best thing she can because she does know what she did was wrong. I do not think she is a "bad" person. I do not want to be in her position, however. I do have an opinion on the matter, and I do have a right to protest and commentary when someone circumvents the rules no matter how I feel toward them personally.
Having enough peer wins to issue challenge is not the only requirement to have a voice, Rix. Everyone should feel their voice carries equal weight when they use logic and reason to plead their case or argument. Having enough peer wins does not mean a person is right, nor does it mean that matters of intellect, reason, wisdom, or common sense must needs be decided upon a duel.
Having said that, let me say, for what it is worth, that otherwise, I believe I understand your intent behind your words and your convictions and I would have expected nothing less from you. Whether I agree with you or not, I do take your words and your convictions to heart.
Respectfully,
Morgan du Cornwall
Baron, 5th Ring
Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:59:45 EST
What "truly upsets me so mjuch," Rix, is the insane amount of attack Jonalyn has been under simply because she finds the matter of boldly breaking a rule to be so distasteful.
Jona has a valid claim. She does not deserve the topic being turned to anything other than her point regarding Jaycynda's challenge, which is what has happened each time Jonalyn utters the slightest of opinions lately. I will not sit by while people cast insults to her rather than addressing her claims. I find that Jonalyn is one of the people under pointless attacks simply because she spoke up against a beloved dueler's actions.
To reiterate something I said earlier, I believe Jaycynda to do the best thing she can because she does know what she did was wrong. I do not think she is a "bad" person. I do not want to be in her position, however. I do have an opinion on the matter, and I do have a right to protest and commentary when someone circumvents the rules no matter how I feel toward them personally.
Having enough peer wins to issue challenge is not the only requirement to have a voice, Rix. Everyone should feel their voice carries equal weight when they use logic and reason to plead their case or argument. Having enough peer wins does not mean a person is right, nor does it mean that matters of intellect, reason, wisdom, or common sense must needs be decided upon a duel.
Having said that, let me say, for what it is worth, that otherwise, I believe I understand your intent behind your words and your convictions and I would have expected nothing less from you. Whether I agree with you or not, I do take your words and your convictions to heart.
Respectfully,
Morgan du Cornwall
Baron, 5th Ring