From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:17:22 EDT
Khyrs
Lass, Marius challenge wast indeed met. It wast met by being voided for being improperly presented.
Jona
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.
Marius Challenge: Take 2
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From: mariusix@aol.com (Marius IX)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:18:03 EDT
As I have already outlined, and it feels repeated ad nauseum; in a private letter Drake told me that my PWs were sound.
After Drake's official reply was posted I sent a private letter to the Lady Drakewyn. This letter apologized for my ignorance and offered two alternate Peerwins in their stead, hoping that my challenge to the 13th could proceed. Lady Drakewyn told me in her reply that her decision on the challenge was irreversable but I could save the 8 peerwins that were good for my next challenge, next cycle. I am positive that the Lady Drake will recall these
events as I have outlined them. And I would ask that you all try to withhold judgement until such a time as she can make a fair decision.
Exhasperatively yours,
Gaius Marius Colestae'
Magnus Centurion of Imperial Rome.
Commander of Legions at Lugdunum, Carthago, Capua, & Ravenna.
Warlord of the DoS.
Civus Romanus.
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:18:03 EDT
As I have already outlined, and it feels repeated ad nauseum; in a private letter Drake told me that my PWs were sound.
After Drake's official reply was posted I sent a private letter to the Lady Drakewyn. This letter apologized for my ignorance and offered two alternate Peerwins in their stead, hoping that my challenge to the 13th could proceed. Lady Drakewyn told me in her reply that her decision on the challenge was irreversable but I could save the 8 peerwins that were good for my next challenge, next cycle. I am positive that the Lady Drake will recall these
events as I have outlined them. And I would ask that you all try to withhold judgement until such a time as she can make a fair decision.
Exhasperatively yours,
Gaius Marius Colestae'
Magnus Centurion of Imperial Rome.
Commander of Legions at Lugdunum, Carthago, Capua, & Ravenna.
Warlord of the DoS.
Civus Romanus.
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:24:00 EDT
I will certainly be sure to discuss this with Lady Drake. Worry not.
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:24:00 EDT
I will certainly be sure to discuss this with Lady Drake. Worry not.
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:48:34 EDT
Gentles,
I hae called upon Master Evermeadow t' agin look inta' th' matter an' th' 'andlin' 'o challenges by Madame Silvertree. Tis gettin' t' be a 'abit 'o Madame Silvertree's t' botch simple matters. Th' community an' anna warlord wh' dost wish t' present challenge be bein' done a disservice. Tis 'ow manna times shall th' community needs mus' be subjected t' such afore somethin' ist done?
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 04 Sep 1999 19:48:34 EDT
Gentles,
I hae called upon Master Evermeadow t' agin look inta' th' matter an' th' 'andlin' 'o challenges by Madame Silvertree. Tis gettin' t' be a 'abit 'o Madame Silvertree's t' botch simple matters. Th' community an' anna warlord wh' dost wish t' present challenge be bein' done a disservice. Tis 'ow manna times shall th' community needs mus' be subjected t' such afore somethin' ist done?
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 20:02:34 EDT
Jona,
Yeh seem teh beh jumping the gun. You're all set and ready to denounce Lady Drake as being misfit for her job when the details of the incident have not been verified, and the public is without fact; Drakewyn hasn't even spoken of the matter to the public yet, and therefore, you shouldn't judge Drake yet.
Coron.
Date: 04 Sep 1999 20:02:34 EDT
Jona,
Yeh seem teh beh jumping the gun. You're all set and ready to denounce Lady Drake as being misfit for her job when the details of the incident have not been verified, and the public is without fact; Drakewyn hasn't even spoken of the matter to the public yet, and therefore, you shouldn't judge Drake yet.
Coron.
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From: mariusix@aol.com (Marius IX)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 20:09:23 EDT
Whys is it that in DoS everyone is always ready to leap at shadows. Coron is right. Everyone keep a clear head. If the challenge must be voided it will be so. If not it will proceed. Why stir up such comotion?
Gaius Marius Colestae'
Magnus Centurion of Imperial Rome.
Commander of Legions at Lugdunum, Carthago, Capua, & Ravenna.
Warlord of the DoS.
Civus Romanus.
Date: 04 Sep 1999 20:09:23 EDT
Whys is it that in DoS everyone is always ready to leap at shadows. Coron is right. Everyone keep a clear head. If the challenge must be voided it will be so. If not it will proceed. Why stir up such comotion?
Gaius Marius Colestae'
Magnus Centurion of Imperial Rome.
Commander of Legions at Lugdunum, Carthago, Capua, & Ravenna.
Warlord of the DoS.
Civus Romanus.
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 04 Sep 1999 23:12:58 EDT
Why stir up such comotion?
Uh..Uh... da... Ya...You... You challenged with invalid peer wins... Duh.
Helpfully yours, I love you,
- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
Date: 04 Sep 1999 23:12:58 EDT
Why stir up such comotion?
Uh..Uh... da... Ya...You... You challenged with invalid peer wins... Duh.
Helpfully yours, I love you,
- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
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From: rdigryphn@aol.com (RDI Gryphn)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 06:23:37 EDT
To avoid further debate, and with the full permission of the Supervisor, I post the following letter.
(( Subj: Re: Challenge for the 13th
Date: 8/17/99 9:30:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: RDI Golden
To: RDI Gryphn ))
Drake,
I didn't want to do this in front of everyone involved in this matter, so I'll simply explain to you. The punishment to be set down upon Marius is not as strict as you wrote. The rules state:
In the case of a voided challenge, the challenger will have his or her right to challenge stripped for the remainder of the cycle as a penalty.
While he does lose his right to challenge, he does retain all of his peer wins. Please drop him a note to correct this matter. Thanks.
Golden
I simply fulfill my duties as the Standing's Keeper without making final rulings as to my interpretation of the rules. I leave all final rulings to the Supervisor, as the above letter indicates.
Lady Drake, aka The Gryphon...
Standing's Keeper for the Duel of Swords.
( AOL Dueling Center Volunteer )
Date: 05 Sep 1999 06:23:37 EDT
To avoid further debate, and with the full permission of the Supervisor, I post the following letter.
(( Subj: Re: Challenge for the 13th
Date: 8/17/99 9:30:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: RDI Golden
To: RDI Gryphn ))
Drake,
I didn't want to do this in front of everyone involved in this matter, so I'll simply explain to you. The punishment to be set down upon Marius is not as strict as you wrote. The rules state:
In the case of a voided challenge, the challenger will have his or her right to challenge stripped for the remainder of the cycle as a penalty.
While he does lose his right to challenge, he does retain all of his peer wins. Please drop him a note to correct this matter. Thanks.
Golden
I simply fulfill my duties as the Standing's Keeper without making final rulings as to my interpretation of the rules. I leave all final rulings to the Supervisor, as the above letter indicates.
Lady Drake, aka The Gryphon...
Standing's Keeper for the Duel of Swords.
( AOL Dueling Center Volunteer )
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From: rdigryphn@aol.com (RDI Gryphn)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 06:26:01 EDT
A final addition.
Having seen this list of peers presented once before, the verification of this challenge will come swiftly.
Lady Drake, aka The Gryphon...
Date: 05 Sep 1999 06:26:01 EDT
A final addition.
Having seen this list of peers presented once before, the verification of this challenge will come swiftly.
Lady Drake, aka The Gryphon...
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:31:50 EDT
Okay, at least Drake's not at fault for this.
But I have to disagree with the ruling. As far as I always knew, when you issue an improper challenge, you lose all your gathered peer wins.
If this isn't the case, then issuing challenges improperly is never truly punished.
Also, I move that all of Elijah's peer wins be restored as well, with exception to the ones that weren't on the standings when he issued the challenge.
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:31:50 EDT
Okay, at least Drake's not at fault for this.
But I have to disagree with the ruling. As far as I always knew, when you issue an improper challenge, you lose all your gathered peer wins.
If this isn't the case, then issuing challenges improperly is never truly punished.
Also, I move that all of Elijah's peer wins be restored as well, with exception to the ones that weren't on the standings when he issued the challenge.
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:43:03 EDT
After going over the rule book I have copied a passage verbatem.
<<Challenges, if not properly served, will be voided by the Standings Keeper. In the case of a voided challenge, the challenger will have his or her right to challenge stripped for the remainder of the cycle as a penalty. This penalty will *not* take effect if the challenge is withdrawn before voided.>>
I strongly recommend that RDI Golden make an appology to Elijah and all others who have lost there peer wins do to an invalid challenge also reinstate the peer wins stripped from them for there invalid challenge's.
Even though I have not been here a long time it does seem to me that I did once read from this rule book that peer wins were also stripped, but I could be mistakin'.if it was once there I would like to know when it was changed and why the public was not notified of a change in the rules.A change in the rules should be posted.If this has always been the rules, then why was Elijah's peer wins stripped from him or why did any have the peer wins
stripped for having placed an invalid challenge?
Marius,
I have no problems toward you in anyway and look forward to your challenge.This post is to help those that where wronged by having the peer wins stripped from them.
Once the verifacations are made I shall contact you and arrange the particulars.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:43:03 EDT
After going over the rule book I have copied a passage verbatem.
<<Challenges, if not properly served, will be voided by the Standings Keeper. In the case of a voided challenge, the challenger will have his or her right to challenge stripped for the remainder of the cycle as a penalty. This penalty will *not* take effect if the challenge is withdrawn before voided.>>
I strongly recommend that RDI Golden make an appology to Elijah and all others who have lost there peer wins do to an invalid challenge also reinstate the peer wins stripped from them for there invalid challenge's.
Even though I have not been here a long time it does seem to me that I did once read from this rule book that peer wins were also stripped, but I could be mistakin'.if it was once there I would like to know when it was changed and why the public was not notified of a change in the rules.A change in the rules should be posted.If this has always been the rules, then why was Elijah's peer wins stripped from him or why did any have the peer wins
stripped for having placed an invalid challenge?
Marius,
I have no problems toward you in anyway and look forward to your challenge.This post is to help those that where wronged by having the peer wins stripped from them.
Once the verifacations are made I shall contact you and arrange the particulars.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:55:02 EDT
>>If this isn't the case, then issuing challenges improperly is never truly punished.<<
G,
It could be argued, by some, that loss of the right to challenge for a cycle might be a proper punishment. Especially if the individual giving challenge were possessed of a specific reason to challenge a specific opponent. I don't know if this would really be a real punishment or not, but I am sure there are more than few people who would think so. Huma, after all, felt terribly punished when he merely lost his right to challenge the Overlord for a
cycle.
All in all, however, I think the real issue is the definition of the term 'met'. Jonalyn argued that a challenge is 'met' when the Standings Keeper verifies or disallows it. I don't agree with this, however. Where I come from, a challenge of any sort is 'met' only after it has been fought, i.e. when the two principles have 'met' in the contest of arms. By sch a definition, it would be impossible for a dismissed challenge to be 'met'.
There are some who would argue, possibly, (as I know there are some lands that follow this practice) that a challenge is 'met' when the one challenged answers the said challenge. Once again, we are running into areas of opinion. In such a case the opinion that matters is that of the Supervisor of the sport. We might be able to gather his definition of the word 'met' in regard to challenges from his letter to Drake. Or we might not.
I would, therefore, ask Golden to give us his official opinion of when a challenge has been 'met'.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:55:02 EDT
>>If this isn't the case, then issuing challenges improperly is never truly punished.<<
G,
It could be argued, by some, that loss of the right to challenge for a cycle might be a proper punishment. Especially if the individual giving challenge were possessed of a specific reason to challenge a specific opponent. I don't know if this would really be a real punishment or not, but I am sure there are more than few people who would think so. Huma, after all, felt terribly punished when he merely lost his right to challenge the Overlord for a
cycle.
All in all, however, I think the real issue is the definition of the term 'met'. Jonalyn argued that a challenge is 'met' when the Standings Keeper verifies or disallows it. I don't agree with this, however. Where I come from, a challenge of any sort is 'met' only after it has been fought, i.e. when the two principles have 'met' in the contest of arms. By sch a definition, it would be impossible for a dismissed challenge to be 'met'.
There are some who would argue, possibly, (as I know there are some lands that follow this practice) that a challenge is 'met' when the one challenged answers the said challenge. Once again, we are running into areas of opinion. In such a case the opinion that matters is that of the Supervisor of the sport. We might be able to gather his definition of the word 'met' in regard to challenges from his letter to Drake. Or we might not.
I would, therefore, ask Golden to give us his official opinion of when a challenge has been 'met'.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:59:40 EDT
<<Th' rules 'o engagement aire clear, an' th' challenge shouldst be set aside ast illegal>>
Jona,
Maybe you should tryv this once.Read the rules before you try and qoute them.Just an idea.If you dont have an actuall copy I will be glad to send you one just ask.
<<T'would seem th' th' Standin's Keeper hast erred agin, an' be ast usual, applyin' th' rules 'o engagement willy nilly>>
How so?
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the first
Date: 05 Sep 1999 13:59:40 EDT
<<Th' rules 'o engagement aire clear, an' th' challenge shouldst be set aside ast illegal>>
Jona,
Maybe you should tryv this once.Read the rules before you try and qoute them.Just an idea.If you dont have an actuall copy I will be glad to send you one just ask.
<<T'would seem th' th' Standin's Keeper hast erred agin, an' be ast usual, applyin' th' rules 'o engagement willy nilly>>
How so?
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the first
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 14:08:26 EDT
As others have said; either we give back every peer of everyone who has lost them in an invalid challenge, or Marius' challenge is invalid.
And may I suggest we reword the rules so it is much clearer as to when the Standings Keeper is supposed to take away peers and when not to?
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Magician of DoM
Date: 05 Sep 1999 14:08:26 EDT
As others have said; either we give back every peer of everyone who has lost them in an invalid challenge, or Marius' challenge is invalid.
And may I suggest we reword the rules so it is much clearer as to when the Standings Keeper is supposed to take away peers and when not to?
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Magician of DoM
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 05 Sep 1999 14:34:02 EDT
So,
If a warlord challenges on the last week of the cycle with invalid peer wins, he pretty much gets no punishment at all? Just gets to wait a week and keep the peer wins he had? It doesn't seem like a punishment.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 05 Sep 1999 14:34:02 EDT
So,
If a warlord challenges on the last week of the cycle with invalid peer wins, he pretty much gets no punishment at all? Just gets to wait a week and keep the peer wins he had? It doesn't seem like a punishment.
~Magnus~
Overlord of Swords
Guardian of Polaris