From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 16 Apr 2000 22:42:19 EDT
"I never said I was the most powerful man in Rhydin."
Then you're lying.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
Challenge Me.
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 16 Apr 2000 23:06:11 EDT
>Also, just to avoid this line of counter argument, the instance involving
>Cletus's challenge to Dalamar is irrelevant
Precisely, the two situations are entirely different.
Cletus
Date: 16 Apr 2000 23:06:11 EDT
>Also, just to avoid this line of counter argument, the instance involving
>Cletus's challenge to Dalamar is irrelevant
Precisely, the two situations are entirely different.
Cletus
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From: gunthrodw@aol.com (Gunthr ODW)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 00:01:04 EDT
With all do respect, I fully agree with Mark's statement that this is much more complicated than it appears. If a person holds the ability to win a ring, then immediately head upstairs and duel with the added fancy, then with unspoken words it is already confirmed that s/he is a baron. As if not, the official would not allow the fifth fancy, should it be used. The fact the results are not placed in the standings is inane
regarding whether or not s/he is a baron. Should officials and the community not recognize the person as a baron until posted, then, and only then, would it be fully in stride with the stated rules. As, according to the rules, they are not a baron until so.
There will always be loopholes, this matter should be turned over to higher authority to be looked over. Regardless of what personal feelings are felt to the newest 'soon to be baron,' I feel at least we could look this over.
Loopholes are fun aren't they? Now then, I am just waiting for the overlord to place himself up as his own champion, that will be interesting.
Gunthar
Date: 17 Apr 2000 00:01:04 EDT
With all do respect, I fully agree with Mark's statement that this is much more complicated than it appears. If a person holds the ability to win a ring, then immediately head upstairs and duel with the added fancy, then with unspoken words it is already confirmed that s/he is a baron. As if not, the official would not allow the fifth fancy, should it be used. The fact the results are not placed in the standings is inane
regarding whether or not s/he is a baron. Should officials and the community not recognize the person as a baron until posted, then, and only then, would it be fully in stride with the stated rules. As, according to the rules, they are not a baron until so.
There will always be loopholes, this matter should be turned over to higher authority to be looked over. Regardless of what personal feelings are felt to the newest 'soon to be baron,' I feel at least we could look this over.
Loopholes are fun aren't they? Now then, I am just waiting for the overlord to place himself up as his own champion, that will be interesting.
Gunthar
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From: gunthrodw@aol.com (Gunthr ODW)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 00:16:27 EDT
::just after posting his own thoughts, he receives note of Val's judgement, a pleased smile passes his lips as he reads it over. Regardless of his distaste toward the new baron, the final word passed by Val seems quite fair::
Date: 17 Apr 2000 00:16:27 EDT
::just after posting his own thoughts, he receives note of Val's judgement, a pleased smile passes his lips as he reads it over. Regardless of his distaste toward the new baron, the final word passed by Val seems quite fair::
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 01:50:29 EDT
To all.
My statement was made in frustration at the situation. I believe a Baron should know better than to issue an invalid challenge.
I apologize for my harshness.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 17 Apr 2000 01:50:29 EDT
To all.
My statement was made in frustration at the situation. I believe a Baron should know better than to issue an invalid challenge.
I apologize for my harshness.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 02:12:07 EDT
Ok. I've discussed a few things with a few people, and I now see the argument of precedent. I apologize completely for a comment made in the heat of anger and indignation, and which brought on harsh comments by a couple of friends, that frankly, actually hurt. Let me state I have no wish to abuse Baronial power that I may gain in the future of any sort. Again, I apologize for my statement.
Drey Starke has the right to challenge. So it has been ruled. Regardless, he could have showed enough respect to at least wait a week, but as ruled..there is nothing to punish him for that.
I do want to ask the Community if this is someone they want as their Overlord, however.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 17 Apr 2000 02:12:07 EDT
Ok. I've discussed a few things with a few people, and I now see the argument of precedent. I apologize completely for a comment made in the heat of anger and indignation, and which brought on harsh comments by a couple of friends, that frankly, actually hurt. Let me state I have no wish to abuse Baronial power that I may gain in the future of any sort. Again, I apologize for my statement.
Drey Starke has the right to challenge. So it has been ruled. Regardless, he could have showed enough respect to at least wait a week, but as ruled..there is nothing to punish him for that.
I do want to ask the Community if this is someone they want as their Overlord, however.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: andrevermillion@aol.com (Andre Vermillion)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 03:16:55 EDT
I am not well known here. I teach classes at the Ohtori Academy on dueling and ethics.
Those who use the rights and privileges of rank before such things are officially recorded are breaking the ethical strictures of the sport.
A Baron may not be challenged before their possession of the title is recorded on the standings, yet some would say that they should have access to all their rights without any of the dangers of rank.
A Baron who uses the full range of skills against his or her opponents before their possession of the title is recorded is breaking the rules, just as a swordsman who attempts to use more than his allowed range of skills in a duel.
Andre Stannius Vermillion
Date: 17 Apr 2000 03:16:55 EDT
I am not well known here. I teach classes at the Ohtori Academy on dueling and ethics.
Those who use the rights and privileges of rank before such things are officially recorded are breaking the ethical strictures of the sport.
A Baron may not be challenged before their possession of the title is recorded on the standings, yet some would say that they should have access to all their rights without any of the dangers of rank.
A Baron who uses the full range of skills against his or her opponents before their possession of the title is recorded is breaking the rules, just as a swordsman who attempts to use more than his allowed range of skills in a duel.
Andre Stannius Vermillion
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From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 05:01:24 EDT
Mr. Race's comments are historically accurate. In point of fact, this discussion has been had before, and the community almost unanimously agreed that a Title takes effect the moment it is earned.
I don't have it within me to term Lady Silvertree's decision as incompetent, as this is a rules flaw. Still - and I should note without any desire to see the Overlord removed - I consider the decision to be wrong based on historical precedent and community decision, and would call for its reversal.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
Date: 17 Apr 2000 05:01:24 EDT
Mr. Race's comments are historically accurate. In point of fact, this discussion has been had before, and the community almost unanimously agreed that a Title takes effect the moment it is earned.
I don't have it within me to term Lady Silvertree's decision as incompetent, as this is a rules flaw. Still - and I should note without any desire to see the Overlord removed - I consider the decision to be wrong based on historical precedent and community decision, and would call for its reversal.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
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From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 05:05:51 EDT
"As for your first example, I can only see that as a mistake made by the officials of the time. I for one have never used my gained skill until it was shown I could. Should the person who makes Grandmaster immediately be able to use his skill? No, they have to wait. If Barons do slip through the cracks like this, then it is both their faults, and the officials at
the time. "
Then, Overlord, it is a mistake that has been made ever since the creation of titled ranks.
I must remind you that Baronies and the Overlordship are not ranks. They are titles. When you achieve the rank of Warlord, the verification of your record by the standings keeper is required, as your record is what determines the position. When you earn a titled rank, there is no verification necessary; your earning of the title has been witnessed clearly by an official and, presumably, a decent number of spectators.
I'll reiterate: in every other situation (save the one error Mr. Race mentioned) where the difference between "Warlord" and "Baron" or "Overlord" has mattered, the decision has been that the privilege falls to the new Baron or Overlord immediately.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
Date: 17 Apr 2000 05:05:51 EDT
"As for your first example, I can only see that as a mistake made by the officials of the time. I for one have never used my gained skill until it was shown I could. Should the person who makes Grandmaster immediately be able to use his skill? No, they have to wait. If Barons do slip through the cracks like this, then it is both their faults, and the officials at
the time. "
Then, Overlord, it is a mistake that has been made ever since the creation of titled ranks.
I must remind you that Baronies and the Overlordship are not ranks. They are titles. When you achieve the rank of Warlord, the verification of your record by the standings keeper is required, as your record is what determines the position. When you earn a titled rank, there is no verification necessary; your earning of the title has been witnessed clearly by an official and, presumably, a decent number of spectators.
I'll reiterate: in every other situation (save the one error Mr. Race mentioned) where the difference between "Warlord" and "Baron" or "Overlord" has mattered, the decision has been that the privilege falls to the new Baron or Overlord immediately.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
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From: shivblade@aol.com (SHIV BLADE)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 14:41:10 EDT
Then the simple question is this.
Is it right to allow them the opportunity to challenge, yet not be challenged? If their rights fall immediately, then it seems that they should no longer have this grace period of the standings to wait for a challenge themselves. We are only bending the rules one way to help us, and bending them the other way to help harm others.
Avery Shiv Blade
Date: 17 Apr 2000 14:41:10 EDT
Then the simple question is this.
Is it right to allow them the opportunity to challenge, yet not be challenged? If their rights fall immediately, then it seems that they should no longer have this grace period of the standings to wait for a challenge themselves. We are only bending the rules one way to help us, and bending them the other way to help harm others.
Avery Shiv Blade
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 15:15:11 EDT
I agree that a baron has the opportunity to use his skills as a baron as soon as he gains the ring. However, I do not think he should be allowed to challenge for the overlord until his win is noted in the standings.
If a baron can challenge an overlord as soon as he gains the ring, then he can be challenged as soon as he gains the ring. Fair, right?
If a warlord wins a challenge for the title of baron, then they are allowed to use skills as a baron immediately. Countering this, if a baron has dropped to 1 WoL and loses a challenge, he is considered a commoner when he duels those nights. I believe this has always been the case, and I see it as something fair until the rules are finally cleared up in that regard. I have always understood this to be the case.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 17 Apr 2000 15:15:11 EDT
I agree that a baron has the opportunity to use his skills as a baron as soon as he gains the ring. However, I do not think he should be allowed to challenge for the overlord until his win is noted in the standings.
If a baron can challenge an overlord as soon as he gains the ring, then he can be challenged as soon as he gains the ring. Fair, right?
If a warlord wins a challenge for the title of baron, then they are allowed to use skills as a baron immediately. Countering this, if a baron has dropped to 1 WoL and loses a challenge, he is considered a commoner when he duels those nights. I believe this has always been the case, and I see it as something fair until the rules are finally cleared up in that regard. I have always understood this to be the case.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
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From: gunthrodw@aol.com (Gunthr ODW)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 17:27:50 EDT
This is simply a discrepancy in the rules. They will be fixed, and this will all blow over. This has happened before and gone unnoticed, Drake just happened to catch it in this particular instance. I myself was challenged for my right of overlord the morn following my gaining of the title. Yet I was not yet announced in the standings as overlord. It went unnoticed then, as well as I am sure other times. I would guess the
same happened in another particular overlord reign, though I cannot be certain. We just need to fix this flaw in the rules and move on. The ruling has been made and that is that.
Gunthar
Date: 17 Apr 2000 17:27:50 EDT
This is simply a discrepancy in the rules. They will be fixed, and this will all blow over. This has happened before and gone unnoticed, Drake just happened to catch it in this particular instance. I myself was challenged for my right of overlord the morn following my gaining of the title. Yet I was not yet announced in the standings as overlord. It went unnoticed then, as well as I am sure other times. I would guess the
same happened in another particular overlord reign, though I cannot be certain. We just need to fix this flaw in the rules and move on. The ruling has been made and that is that.
Gunthar
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From: novagreys@aol.com (Nova GreyS)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 18:57:51 EDT
"Cas,
Is this someone I want as Overlord? Sure, why the hell not. Makes no difference to me who the Overlord is ... thankfully, even though any peabrain with enough wins under their belt can get the Overlordship, the Overlord has about as much power as a janitor. They can choose to flush the toilet before they clean it (i.e. make a Baron Renegade to open them up to challenge queues) but they can't control whether or not it overflows (i.e. the Renegade
challenges for title). I could care less what kind of character they have. They can be a moron for all I care (we've had plenty of them lately) so long as they show up to actually fight.
That's what the title is all about. Fighting. Unfortunately, there's no mandatory IQ requirement, but some of the best fighters I've ever known have been dumber than dirt anyway (i.e. Rix). The day the Overlord has more power than a janitor is the day I'll care how much of an idiot they are.
-NGS"
Date: 17 Apr 2000 18:57:51 EDT
"Cas,
Is this someone I want as Overlord? Sure, why the hell not. Makes no difference to me who the Overlord is ... thankfully, even though any peabrain with enough wins under their belt can get the Overlordship, the Overlord has about as much power as a janitor. They can choose to flush the toilet before they clean it (i.e. make a Baron Renegade to open them up to challenge queues) but they can't control whether or not it overflows (i.e. the Renegade
challenges for title). I could care less what kind of character they have. They can be a moron for all I care (we've had plenty of them lately) so long as they show up to actually fight.
That's what the title is all about. Fighting. Unfortunately, there's no mandatory IQ requirement, but some of the best fighters I've ever known have been dumber than dirt anyway (i.e. Rix). The day the Overlord has more power than a janitor is the day I'll care how much of an idiot they are.
-NGS"
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 17 Apr 2000 22:25:24 EDT
If a baron can challenge an overlord as soon as he gains the ring, then he can be challenged as soon as he gains the ring.
I think Simini challenged me before the standings even came out, but I'm not totally sure about that.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
Date: 17 Apr 2000 22:25:24 EDT
If a baron can challenge an overlord as soon as he gains the ring, then he can be challenged as soon as he gains the ring.
I think Simini challenged me before the standings even came out, but I'm not totally sure about that.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
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From: verceterixfavre@aol.com (Verceterix Favre)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 00:19:29 EDT
Nova,
Your post reminded me that you owe me a dinner at your place. I would like to have the spiciest, most gaseous foods you can cook. If you don't have any, I can bring my own ingredients. And make sure you have plenty of reading material in your bathroom.
-Rix
Date: 18 Apr 2000 00:19:29 EDT
Nova,
Your post reminded me that you owe me a dinner at your place. I would like to have the spiciest, most gaseous foods you can cook. If you don't have any, I can bring my own ingredients. And make sure you have plenty of reading material in your bathroom.
-Rix