Date: 8/22/97 12:43 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: DukeUzieI
::has a definatively perturbed look on his face::
This whole friggin string is makin me sick....including the original post, I fer one am all for challenges...be they to the Barons or the guy with the friggin pointy hat. Challenges, whether spurious er due to blood feud are just that...challenges....if'n ya have a problem with em....1.) Don't friggin challenge. 2.) Don't friggin win a challenge and have to defend.
If'n ya feel ya have something in yerself that you JUST have to become one of da helmsman of the friggin Duels...then by all means do it........If ya are doing it to test yerself....do it also...Whatever jerks yer chain...cause thats what all dis crap is about annaway.
To see those that do hold the damn titles...scream hysterically about the way they are beening assaulted is absolute nonsense.....cheapen the title? Aye it does when those with the title attempt to make it unassailable with words. And it does little ta impress those that would respect the damn title in the first place......If Newbie X makes Warlord and decides to be the friggin Overlord and wins....good on him...but he must be ready to defend that title at all times at any friggin cost...cause
thats what the title means....*Welcomes all Challengers*...If ya don't feel that you want ta do that refer to that refer to guideline #2 in the friggin first paragraph.
I'm sorry ta be an arse, and I'm sure my friggin opinion has as much worth to these people as a friggin bucket of bull dung....but as well worded as all this crap I have read is...it still says one friggin thing to me...... *::whiney like:: But......you haven't been here long enough, your new, *I* have been here since the beginning* Hey I have friggin said it before and I will say it again...this barely veiled *upperclassman* crap is just that, crap. What would you friggin do if BRK was new?? And
he stomped on in and whooped the living hell outta all of ya and took the friggin Crown? Whine just the same? I dunna care who has been here the longest...or knows the most about the DoS and such......titles are up for friggin grabs....if someone wants it their gonna try for it and dats friggin dat.
Until something is changed I am gonna take an Iain like stance on this and say this....you got no friggin right at all to tell annaone how to conduct themselves in the friggin DoS, you can whine and chastise and look down upon all you want because that is yer right, but its simple......10 PWs and I can challenge any Baron I damn well please......15 Dal and I can go for the friggin Crown.....I personally at this time choose not to do so...but others have their own ideas and they are friggin allowed
to persue them.....you Dal...if you feel they ain't worthy can't test them or step in for a loyal Baron...but I would love ta see dat after yer stance against Athlstan and his policy of always steppin in....might even make me start counting my PWs again...but who cares about dat.
Drop the crap and duel I say....dats what yer here for all of ya. But I will say this....me and quite a few friggin others are tired of being treated like *freshmen* and sittin around waitin fer the friggin *Upperclassmen* to decide if we're friggin worthy ta be something in the DoS......my blade says what I am worthy of...not ANY of you. Get it? Got it? Good.
~Adonai~
Ramblings of the Overlord
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Date: 8/22/97 1:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: LexaQuinn
Geez, are the finals for the "How To Be a Cocksure Braggart Like Me" taught by BRK, coming up?
Seems like some of the students are going for extra credit.
Adonai,
Your entire post made me sick. Tone down your language -- you make a lot more sense when you aren't being foul mouthed. I might AGREE with you if there wasn't so much bile mixed in with the opinions.
From: LexaQuinn
Geez, are the finals for the "How To Be a Cocksure Braggart Like Me" taught by BRK, coming up?
Seems like some of the students are going for extra credit.
Adonai,
Your entire post made me sick. Tone down your language -- you make a lot more sense when you aren't being foul mouthed. I might AGREE with you if there wasn't so much bile mixed in with the opinions.
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Date: 8/22/97 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: DukeUzieI
Lexa~
Seems ya forget I have always been like this....but thats typical since I dunna know who ya are and you obviously dunna know me.......like I said....ain't you or no one tellin me how to be and dats it.
But dis...of course has nothing ta do with what I was friggin pointin out...figures...everyone just stays quiet and lets da other hypocrites say what ever dey want...but if someone stands up and points out hes tired of the crap and ain't gonna take it annamore....hes attacked.
But enough of this cause it ain't a post about ME. ::smirks::
~Adonai~
[~¥~]
From: DukeUzieI
Lexa~
Seems ya forget I have always been like this....but thats typical since I dunna know who ya are and you obviously dunna know me.......like I said....ain't you or no one tellin me how to be and dats it.
But dis...of course has nothing ta do with what I was friggin pointin out...figures...everyone just stays quiet and lets da other hypocrites say what ever dey want...but if someone stands up and points out hes tired of the crap and ain't gonna take it annamore....hes attacked.
But enough of this cause it ain't a post about ME. ::smirks::
~Adonai~
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Date: 8/22/97 1:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Kalamere
Adonai,
While you are more than welcome to your opinion and I will admit that Dalamar's missive comes off as a tad pompous, your response was nothing less than rude.
You mentioned that you wanted to take an "Iain like stance on this," but I believe you would be hard pressed to find a single writing from MacKenzie that either: (a) fell to such a level that a mere two obscenities needed to be used a total of 29 times. Iain would have, at the very least, made his response a bit more colorfull and more than likely, much more mannerly; or (b) Fought against the other side's right to have an opinion. Telling people to shut up and duel never strengthens one's argument.
It is a statement designed to halt the public discussion of a topic that others are obviously interested in. In other words.. censorship.
If none were interested in the topic, the thread would not continue and you, very likely, could have saved your reserve of those two obscenities for another day. Instead, you are here doing exactly what it is you have told others not to do, but on another subject.
>> .challenges....if'n ya have a problem with em....1.) Don't friggin
>> challenge. ...
Replace the word challenge in the above quote with the word argue and I believe you might see my point.
That said, I am not here to tell you to keep your opinion to yourself. Despite it's obvious flaws and uncouth wording, you are as entitled to place your opinion here as much as any other. Do have the courtesy of addressing others with a bit more respect next time, though. You claim to be a Duke, a title for which literacy and manners are generally prerequisites. Perhaps you could dazzle us with a bit of both next time instead of coming off as a street urchin.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
From: Kalamere
Adonai,
While you are more than welcome to your opinion and I will admit that Dalamar's missive comes off as a tad pompous, your response was nothing less than rude.
You mentioned that you wanted to take an "Iain like stance on this," but I believe you would be hard pressed to find a single writing from MacKenzie that either: (a) fell to such a level that a mere two obscenities needed to be used a total of 29 times. Iain would have, at the very least, made his response a bit more colorfull and more than likely, much more mannerly; or (b) Fought against the other side's right to have an opinion. Telling people to shut up and duel never strengthens one's argument.
It is a statement designed to halt the public discussion of a topic that others are obviously interested in. In other words.. censorship.
If none were interested in the topic, the thread would not continue and you, very likely, could have saved your reserve of those two obscenities for another day. Instead, you are here doing exactly what it is you have told others not to do, but on another subject.
>> .challenges....if'n ya have a problem with em....1.) Don't friggin
>> challenge. ...
Replace the word challenge in the above quote with the word argue and I believe you might see my point.
That said, I am not here to tell you to keep your opinion to yourself. Despite it's obvious flaws and uncouth wording, you are as entitled to place your opinion here as much as any other. Do have the courtesy of addressing others with a bit more respect next time, though. You claim to be a Duke, a title for which literacy and manners are generally prerequisites. Perhaps you could dazzle us with a bit of both next time instead of coming off as a street urchin.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
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Date: 8/22/97 2:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: DukeUzieI
:: is begining to feel a need to strangle someone ::
Okay let me draw yet another picture here :
o
/ | \ <~~~~~Uz.....a Warlord type gets ANGRY at the way people, particularly one, are telling
/ \ others how to be...and whining and threatening and basically showing their egos are bigger than their arses.
o o o o o o o o o
/ | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ <~~~~Many other people offer their opinions on
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ something that has no friggin bearing on what
Uz is trying to say, and basically show their
arses trying to insult him because they do
not agree with him. Silly since he doesn't give a
damn.
Respect for titles is in respect for those that hold them.........I have learned over time here that respect comes little to those that give it...and dats a friggin problem.....I have a very small list of Barons that I despise........and it hasna grown since they placed demselves on it. Me personally...I got no reason to challnge those I have no issue with...when I challenged AJ it was in friendship...because I felt at the time I wanted to participate in the DoS on a higher level..and he agreed to
the challenge.....when I challenged Jeff it was because I felt he had betrayed me and dats none of any of yer friggin business as far as I'm concerned.
Look at Dex.....I hold enormous respect for Dexter...I would never challenge him because of dat respect and what it means to ME...not ANY of you friggin people. I like what Dex does with his title so *I* personally see no reason to attempt to remove it from him.......thats where respect for titles come from.
Originally I did have a small misgiving about Huma's challenge for Overlord....I had no problem with Dal and could not see a reason for it...but Huma was my friend and I do not attempt to tell MY friends how to conduct themselves....cause it ain't none of MY friggin business.....now that all this has exploded....I got plenty of reason to want to see Huma challenge, even if its only on the basis that I dunna any longer agree with the way Dal conducts himself as Overlord.....Sheesh...a response
like that to anyone.....even if its a *general* post is insulting in the worst......to take someones ambition and call it wrong because you dunna like the rhyme or reason of it is adolescent. Yeah...go ahead...knock a few teeth out...scream *COWARD* at the top of yer friggin lungs if ya want......really makes me happy dat Ath fell to yer blade Dal.
And to the rest of ye I have dis to say, neither I nor ANYONE else needs yer friggin blessing ta do a thing.....if someone challenges and you disagree with their motives...if they win take it from them...if they don't, move on, next story please. Simple as dat.
And whether ya knew it or not....I have always been dis way...since the begining, just ask the people that have known me since den and you'll get a nod........yeah...I kin be diplomatic when the time calls for it.....but in my friggin opinion diplomacy shouldna be wasted on the deaf, dumb, and blind.
~Adonai~
[~¥~]
From: DukeUzieI
:: is begining to feel a need to strangle someone ::
Okay let me draw yet another picture here :
o
/ | \ <~~~~~Uz.....a Warlord type gets ANGRY at the way people, particularly one, are telling
/ \ others how to be...and whining and threatening and basically showing their egos are bigger than their arses.
o o o o o o o o o
/ | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ <~~~~Many other people offer their opinions on
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ something that has no friggin bearing on what
Uz is trying to say, and basically show their
arses trying to insult him because they do
not agree with him. Silly since he doesn't give a
damn.
Respect for titles is in respect for those that hold them.........I have learned over time here that respect comes little to those that give it...and dats a friggin problem.....I have a very small list of Barons that I despise........and it hasna grown since they placed demselves on it. Me personally...I got no reason to challnge those I have no issue with...when I challenged AJ it was in friendship...because I felt at the time I wanted to participate in the DoS on a higher level..and he agreed to
the challenge.....when I challenged Jeff it was because I felt he had betrayed me and dats none of any of yer friggin business as far as I'm concerned.
Look at Dex.....I hold enormous respect for Dexter...I would never challenge him because of dat respect and what it means to ME...not ANY of you friggin people. I like what Dex does with his title so *I* personally see no reason to attempt to remove it from him.......thats where respect for titles come from.
Originally I did have a small misgiving about Huma's challenge for Overlord....I had no problem with Dal and could not see a reason for it...but Huma was my friend and I do not attempt to tell MY friends how to conduct themselves....cause it ain't none of MY friggin business.....now that all this has exploded....I got plenty of reason to want to see Huma challenge, even if its only on the basis that I dunna any longer agree with the way Dal conducts himself as Overlord.....Sheesh...a response
like that to anyone.....even if its a *general* post is insulting in the worst......to take someones ambition and call it wrong because you dunna like the rhyme or reason of it is adolescent. Yeah...go ahead...knock a few teeth out...scream *COWARD* at the top of yer friggin lungs if ya want......really makes me happy dat Ath fell to yer blade Dal.
And to the rest of ye I have dis to say, neither I nor ANYONE else needs yer friggin blessing ta do a thing.....if someone challenges and you disagree with their motives...if they win take it from them...if they don't, move on, next story please. Simple as dat.
And whether ya knew it or not....I have always been dis way...since the begining, just ask the people that have known me since den and you'll get a nod........yeah...I kin be diplomatic when the time calls for it.....but in my friggin opinion diplomacy shouldna be wasted on the deaf, dumb, and blind.
~Adonai~
[~¥~]
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Date: 8/22/97 2:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: IainMacKnz
Interestingly, Adonai...
In this case, I may not agree with your presentation, and I may still look askance on people challenging just because they have ten peers in their pocket... but I agree with what I perceive to be your main point. Most certainly, if one holds a grudge or has some other problem with the holder of a title, that's more than valid enough reason to challenge... one of the best, actually.
In any case, my only objection to the recent spate of challenges is that... well, quite frankly, many of them are being issued by duelers who keep failing. Perhaps at a certain point, one should resign oneself to their position. And I say that regretfully, knowing I refer to friends for the most part.
~irm
From: IainMacKnz
Interestingly, Adonai...
In this case, I may not agree with your presentation, and I may still look askance on people challenging just because they have ten peers in their pocket... but I agree with what I perceive to be your main point. Most certainly, if one holds a grudge or has some other problem with the holder of a title, that's more than valid enough reason to challenge... one of the best, actually.
In any case, my only objection to the recent spate of challenges is that... well, quite frankly, many of them are being issued by duelers who keep failing. Perhaps at a certain point, one should resign oneself to their position. And I say that regretfully, knowing I refer to friends for the most part.
~irm
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Date: 8/22/97 2:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: IainMacKnz
Rad...
It means duelers who have sought a baron's ring repeatedly and failed, and continue to challenge as soon as they have accumulated the requisite victories.
It means duelers who throw themselves against a brick wall, oblivious to the pain being inflicted upon their face, and keep doing it over and over again.
There is perseverance, and then there is folly.
~irm
From: IainMacKnz
Rad...
It means duelers who have sought a baron's ring repeatedly and failed, and continue to challenge as soon as they have accumulated the requisite victories.
It means duelers who throw themselves against a brick wall, oblivious to the pain being inflicted upon their face, and keep doing it over and over again.
There is perseverance, and then there is folly.
~irm
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Date: 8/22/97 2:45 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: DukeUzieI
::reads, amazingly to some it might seem::
Iain,
So they fail......I have failed...you have probably lost one or two also along the road.....what is a challenge if someone doesna fail? Does it cheapen the baron for the defense of his ring? I think not......is the main reason you present a base fear that, somehow, someone might have to lose the coveted *most defenses* record?. Somehow I think not.
What if they didn't? What if every challenge on the board as of now won? Then what would happen? All the so called * Old School * duelists would rise up against them....and here we would stand......chewing over the same gruel as yesterday.
Now yer opinion isna wrong at all.......and as ya can see I am willing to debate things of merit if approached in a manner that isn't condescending, patriarchal, and insulting. But I feel that challenges are open territory.....I for one like to see the Barons I respect hold their titles and go on being who they are in the Duels....I also LOVE the fact that the Barons I do not respect must stay on their toes because a challenge is always around the corner and fate can strike at strange times.
Now if all the outcry is for the main fact that the challenges are too frequent and to often end in failure...then I say we are on precipitous ground here in the DoS then......cause there hasna been a challenge I was in yet that I walked into * Knowing * I would win or lose. And I dunna believe annaone else has either...so if we are to refrain from challenges till a great fiery omen in the sky presents itself and says * If you challenge you will win *, then we're gonna be waitin a long friggin
time...cause I don't know, and don't want to know, anyone THAT sure of themselves.
~Adonai~
[~¥~]
From: DukeUzieI
::reads, amazingly to some it might seem::
Iain,
So they fail......I have failed...you have probably lost one or two also along the road.....what is a challenge if someone doesna fail? Does it cheapen the baron for the defense of his ring? I think not......is the main reason you present a base fear that, somehow, someone might have to lose the coveted *most defenses* record?. Somehow I think not.
What if they didn't? What if every challenge on the board as of now won? Then what would happen? All the so called * Old School * duelists would rise up against them....and here we would stand......chewing over the same gruel as yesterday.
Now yer opinion isna wrong at all.......and as ya can see I am willing to debate things of merit if approached in a manner that isn't condescending, patriarchal, and insulting. But I feel that challenges are open territory.....I for one like to see the Barons I respect hold their titles and go on being who they are in the Duels....I also LOVE the fact that the Barons I do not respect must stay on their toes because a challenge is always around the corner and fate can strike at strange times.
Now if all the outcry is for the main fact that the challenges are too frequent and to often end in failure...then I say we are on precipitous ground here in the DoS then......cause there hasna been a challenge I was in yet that I walked into * Knowing * I would win or lose. And I dunna believe annaone else has either...so if we are to refrain from challenges till a great fiery omen in the sky presents itself and says * If you challenge you will win *, then we're gonna be waitin a long friggin
time...cause I don't know, and don't want to know, anyone THAT sure of themselves.
~Adonai~
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Date: 8/22/97 2:54 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: IainMacKnz
Adonai...
One failure is not a problem. Two failures... becomes one.
My problem, as I reiterated, is with duelers who challenge, lose, rack up their peer wins, and challenge again as soon as they are able.
As a matter of interest, in regard to your comment, I have never challenged for a Baron's ring and lost. I have challenged the Overlord once, for cause. I don't drop my peers in the well just because I have them, and that is the behaviour I am beginning to see which irks me. What it leads to is, "Well, I got this ring, now I've lost it again... I need another ring now, because I have to be a Baron....."
I have no problem with ambition, but doesn't it get tiring to see the same person challenging every time you turn around? And remember... I'm including close friends in on this. This isn't a gripe against any individual.
~irm
From: IainMacKnz
Adonai...
One failure is not a problem. Two failures... becomes one.
My problem, as I reiterated, is with duelers who challenge, lose, rack up their peer wins, and challenge again as soon as they are able.
As a matter of interest, in regard to your comment, I have never challenged for a Baron's ring and lost. I have challenged the Overlord once, for cause. I don't drop my peers in the well just because I have them, and that is the behaviour I am beginning to see which irks me. What it leads to is, "Well, I got this ring, now I've lost it again... I need another ring now, because I have to be a Baron....."
I have no problem with ambition, but doesn't it get tiring to see the same person challenging every time you turn around? And remember... I'm including close friends in on this. This isn't a gripe against any individual.
~irm
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Date: 8/22/97 3:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: DukeUzieI
Iain,
I have much the same opinion which is why personally I have chosen not to challenge anymore for awhile......but in response...wheres the well at Iain?? I have challenged twice....I still have roughly about 20 or so PWs just sitting around...all usuable....but ME personally...I'm working on me for awhile.
Let them throw themselves against a brick wall if they want Iain....like any semi cognizant being they will eventually learn and discontinue the behavior. To look down upon them because the believe in themselves enough to pick up and try again is a harsh view in my opinion......like you said there is perseverance and folly. Who are you...or I to say when they have reached folly.
~Adonai~
[~¥~]
From: DukeUzieI
Iain,
I have much the same opinion which is why personally I have chosen not to challenge anymore for awhile......but in response...wheres the well at Iain?? I have challenged twice....I still have roughly about 20 or so PWs just sitting around...all usuable....but ME personally...I'm working on me for awhile.
Let them throw themselves against a brick wall if they want Iain....like any semi cognizant being they will eventually learn and discontinue the behavior. To look down upon them because the believe in themselves enough to pick up and try again is a harsh view in my opinion......like you said there is perseverance and folly. Who are you...or I to say when they have reached folly.
~Adonai~
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Date: 8/22/97 5:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: MPolanski
:::grimaces, thinking that Adonai is beginning to sound more like Elijah, than Billy::::
To the community at large,
Having recently come to this land to report your news, I found myself in the position of needing to research the background of this sport and the land surrounding it. Through archive research and interview of several oldsters, I found a history richly steeped in tradition. I have heard such tales of bravery and honor, as to stagger the mind. I thought to myself then, that the golden days of Camelot had nothing on RhyDin. But, like Camelot, the golden days of RhyDin seem to lose their lustre to challenge
and arguement, each one more meaningless than the last. Will the rich history of RhyDin begin to read like the begatitudes of the bible, beginning with and so-and-so challenged so-and-so, who challenged so-and-so? Will there be no tales of honor and deed to tell our children? Will the true history end with, "and thus began the age of challenge", the eventual downfall of our land and sport? What a pity.
Overlord:
I shall personally endeavor to deliver a copy of "The Duly Noted" upon your stoop. At least *one* article within may explain a portion of the recent bevy of challenges.
Iain:
Well defended and done, as usual!
Uziel:
What a pity. :::shakes her head, sadly:::: Such potential.
(( In the event that you had not had the time to research, yourself, I should like to take this opportunity to enlighten you. The Duel of Swords, from it's inception, has been a vehicle for Role Playing, not a fantasy "Slingo" or blackjack game. Would it then not stand to reason that those who have participated for years hate to see it reduced to such? I say we newcomers have much to learn, and may do well to observe the masters a bit more closely.))
Just my *humble* opinion,
MPolanski
From: MPolanski
:::grimaces, thinking that Adonai is beginning to sound more like Elijah, than Billy::::
To the community at large,
Having recently come to this land to report your news, I found myself in the position of needing to research the background of this sport and the land surrounding it. Through archive research and interview of several oldsters, I found a history richly steeped in tradition. I have heard such tales of bravery and honor, as to stagger the mind. I thought to myself then, that the golden days of Camelot had nothing on RhyDin. But, like Camelot, the golden days of RhyDin seem to lose their lustre to challenge
and arguement, each one more meaningless than the last. Will the rich history of RhyDin begin to read like the begatitudes of the bible, beginning with and so-and-so challenged so-and-so, who challenged so-and-so? Will there be no tales of honor and deed to tell our children? Will the true history end with, "and thus began the age of challenge", the eventual downfall of our land and sport? What a pity.
Overlord:
I shall personally endeavor to deliver a copy of "The Duly Noted" upon your stoop. At least *one* article within may explain a portion of the recent bevy of challenges.
Iain:
Well defended and done, as usual!
Uziel:
What a pity. :::shakes her head, sadly:::: Such potential.
(( In the event that you had not had the time to research, yourself, I should like to take this opportunity to enlighten you. The Duel of Swords, from it's inception, has been a vehicle for Role Playing, not a fantasy "Slingo" or blackjack game. Would it then not stand to reason that those who have participated for years hate to see it reduced to such? I say we newcomers have much to learn, and may do well to observe the masters a bit more closely.))
Just my *humble* opinion,
MPolanski