From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 05 Oct 1998 00:51:18 EDT
My dear Colleen,
To castigate thee wast nae my intent, I must wonder that thou took it thusly. The tutors hired to train my own bairns do not simply teach the mechanics of weapons' use. Both myself and my husband insist upon only the finest, most professional tutors, as would any loving, caring parent.
There are vast differences between being taught by private tutors well skilled in all manner of not only weapons but of the various disciplines of combat including the discipline of not only giving but of withstanding pain and learning in the chaos of the arena. Only the very best of tutors take not only the physical but the psychological into consideration when beginning the training of a child. Certes that is manifestly apparent to any
discerning personage.
I cannot but consider that thee, ast Rhiannon's mother, would most naturally spring to her defense. Yet I must comment that I find those adults with the sense and the sensibility to choose to eschew dueling children as young as Rhiannon show a high degree of responsibility.
Far be it from me to tell thee how to raise thine large brood. Yet I would trust thou would not castigate those who express reticence at drawing steel against a mere child. As to Jesse, I myself dueled the young man in the TDL, in fact, if memory serves, young Rhiannon was present as was dear Aislain. If Jesse's behavior is, as thou comment, a consequence of dueling in the arena, that would seem to prove the point that the arena is not the
best environment for wee one. Thine objection is duly noted, yet I contend that the cliche "childish behavior" may be applied to adults without casting aspersions upon any child in particular, or for that matter, children in general.
Cordially,
Jona.
Annoying people in DoS
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From: aislainuzl@aol.com (AislainUzl)
Date: 05 Oct 1998 14:05:45 EDT
Why Children Should Duel
by Aislain Dulce Uziel
Children are as good Duelers are anyone else because they are people too. They have legs and arms and heads and hearts and blood and guts and feet and noses and eyes and fingers - except for some children because they lose their fingers because they use the sharp knife that Marme said never ever ever use to cut the bread. I know this because Ellen told me about one little girl who did not listen to her
Marme and cut off all her fingers and she bled all over her sparkle dress and they could not get the stains out! Really truly!
Children are good Duelers because Dueling is an art, not a brawl. That is what Papa told me. See Papa and Marme told me to duel with a wooden sword. That way I can touch my points but I don't break skin which would be very messy and hurt! Some grown-ups like to use sharp pointy things, and when I grow-up and am a Pirate I am going to use a Cutlass and a Razor!!! But now I am only a little girl so I use the wooden sword and practice swords. That
way I can practice my art and not brawl which is very rude and you should never be done unless you are at war or you are drunk or you are in a guild or you like pain which makes you a mustache kiss. I know all about mustache kissing because Uncle Jeff has a beard and when he kisses you its scratchy and leaves big red marks! So people who like to kiss mustaches like to duel with whips and chains. I KNOW this because I am 8. So I suppose Children
should not be allowed to duel with people who like to kiss Mustaches or who say Dis.
So, Marme and Papa let me duel because they say its a skill and an art and I have a gift! I don't remember getting this present; I am sure I would because Marme always makes me write thank you notes and I never wrote a thank you note for being able to duel. In fact, at my Birthday I got FOUR gifts and I had to write SIX thank you notes because two of them came from two people! I thought this was really unfair, but Marme told me to write them
anyway.
Anyway, if dueling is a skill and an art: touching points and thinking much faster than your opponent, then children should duel. If dueling is hacking and sawing and skewering people so their guts spill out all over the sand and you slip in them and fall down bonking your head with green spleen juice all over you new shiny boots, then children should not duel. It's too messy and their Marmes would be very cross having to buy them new boots all the
time.
Furthermore, I am a Valheru which means I get to grow very old and powerful and not die until I want to. Papa and Marme promised to go with me when I die so I won't be scared. And Papa magicked me so Garion could not cut off my leg because I wanted a peg leg. That means no one can cut me unless they broke through Papa, and to do that would have to be very very very intentional I suppose. Maybe someone could do that in the ring, but they would
really have to want to - and then I suppose it doesn't matter where I was. But that is scary so I am not allowed to think about that because I have nightmares and then I have to sleep with Marme and then Prudence gets jealous and she has to sleep with Marme and then Aggy gets mean because he wants to sleep with Marme too, but he won't because he is a baby and says he is too OLD. So he pokes me while I am in bed and I yell at him and then Prudence
starts to cry and we wake Marme up because we are all in her bed and she is very very grouchy and she doesn't let us eat corn cake for a whole week!
In Conclusion, Children are people too.
Date: 05 Oct 1998 14:05:45 EDT
Why Children Should Duel
by Aislain Dulce Uziel
Children are as good Duelers are anyone else because they are people too. They have legs and arms and heads and hearts and blood and guts and feet and noses and eyes and fingers - except for some children because they lose their fingers because they use the sharp knife that Marme said never ever ever use to cut the bread. I know this because Ellen told me about one little girl who did not listen to her
Marme and cut off all her fingers and she bled all over her sparkle dress and they could not get the stains out! Really truly!
Children are good Duelers because Dueling is an art, not a brawl. That is what Papa told me. See Papa and Marme told me to duel with a wooden sword. That way I can touch my points but I don't break skin which would be very messy and hurt! Some grown-ups like to use sharp pointy things, and when I grow-up and am a Pirate I am going to use a Cutlass and a Razor!!! But now I am only a little girl so I use the wooden sword and practice swords. That
way I can practice my art and not brawl which is very rude and you should never be done unless you are at war or you are drunk or you are in a guild or you like pain which makes you a mustache kiss. I know all about mustache kissing because Uncle Jeff has a beard and when he kisses you its scratchy and leaves big red marks! So people who like to kiss mustaches like to duel with whips and chains. I KNOW this because I am 8. So I suppose Children
should not be allowed to duel with people who like to kiss Mustaches or who say Dis.
So, Marme and Papa let me duel because they say its a skill and an art and I have a gift! I don't remember getting this present; I am sure I would because Marme always makes me write thank you notes and I never wrote a thank you note for being able to duel. In fact, at my Birthday I got FOUR gifts and I had to write SIX thank you notes because two of them came from two people! I thought this was really unfair, but Marme told me to write them
anyway.
Anyway, if dueling is a skill and an art: touching points and thinking much faster than your opponent, then children should duel. If dueling is hacking and sawing and skewering people so their guts spill out all over the sand and you slip in them and fall down bonking your head with green spleen juice all over you new shiny boots, then children should not duel. It's too messy and their Marmes would be very cross having to buy them new boots all the
time.
Furthermore, I am a Valheru which means I get to grow very old and powerful and not die until I want to. Papa and Marme promised to go with me when I die so I won't be scared. And Papa magicked me so Garion could not cut off my leg because I wanted a peg leg. That means no one can cut me unless they broke through Papa, and to do that would have to be very very very intentional I suppose. Maybe someone could do that in the ring, but they would
really have to want to - and then I suppose it doesn't matter where I was. But that is scary so I am not allowed to think about that because I have nightmares and then I have to sleep with Marme and then Prudence gets jealous and she has to sleep with Marme and then Aggy gets mean because he wants to sleep with Marme too, but he won't because he is a baby and says he is too OLD. So he pokes me while I am in bed and I yell at him and then Prudence
starts to cry and we wake Marme up because we are all in her bed and she is very very grouchy and she doesn't let us eat corn cake for a whole week!
In Conclusion, Children are people too.
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From: dukeuziei@aol.com (Duke UzieI)
Date: 06 Oct 1998 02:34:39 EDT
::will never understand humans sometimes::
The most amazing thing to me is all this concern for the welfare of children comes from people that wouldn't urinate on a burning adult if they were on fire.
A Valheru....in ancient times, at birth a sword was made for him or her, and as soon as that child could wield it training began in earnest. Training of the body....and the will....to make them like unto their brothers and sisters....warriors of unsurpassed skill.
It is different now...and not so many cling to these old ways. But still, my children, young as they may be....are warriors. If you don't wish them to duel...thats your right, and your wasted wish. They will duel...and they will become what they truly are. Warriors of unsurpassed skill.
All in all its pretty simple people.....if you don't like your children dueling...then don't let them duel....those are YOUR children. Try and not tell the rest of us how to raise ours. You all take this...and yourselves....far to seriously.
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of RhyDin
Date: 06 Oct 1998 02:34:39 EDT
::will never understand humans sometimes::
The most amazing thing to me is all this concern for the welfare of children comes from people that wouldn't urinate on a burning adult if they were on fire.
A Valheru....in ancient times, at birth a sword was made for him or her, and as soon as that child could wield it training began in earnest. Training of the body....and the will....to make them like unto their brothers and sisters....warriors of unsurpassed skill.
It is different now...and not so many cling to these old ways. But still, my children, young as they may be....are warriors. If you don't wish them to duel...thats your right, and your wasted wish. They will duel...and they will become what they truly are. Warriors of unsurpassed skill.
All in all its pretty simple people.....if you don't like your children dueling...then don't let them duel....those are YOUR children. Try and not tell the rest of us how to raise ours. You all take this...and yourselves....far to seriously.
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of RhyDin
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 06 Oct 1998 04:19:14 EDT
Community Members,
First, I would like to thank Drake for addressing my original point about how the children behave and for having the class to respect the ways in which others chose to raise their children.
She is right, our kids are safer among people they know in the arena. I for one would defend any child I saw in trouble. They are probably safer there than anywhere else they could be.
I applaud young Aislain for speaking her mind and note well that the lass has spoken her heart without offending. Children are indeed people too.
Adonai, I was also born of a warrior people. Some people do not hold to the old ways as we apparently do with our children. As you point out.. it is their choice just as it is ours.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
Date: 06 Oct 1998 04:19:14 EDT
Community Members,
First, I would like to thank Drake for addressing my original point about how the children behave and for having the class to respect the ways in which others chose to raise their children.
She is right, our kids are safer among people they know in the arena. I for one would defend any child I saw in trouble. They are probably safer there than anywhere else they could be.
I applaud young Aislain for speaking her mind and note well that the lass has spoken her heart without offending. Children are indeed people too.
Adonai, I was also born of a warrior people. Some people do not hold to the old ways as we apparently do with our children. As you point out.. it is their choice just as it is ours.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 06 Oct 1998 05:37:43 EDT
I will go ahead and speak my piece.
First, on the debate about children dueling. I don't duel them. The reason is actually relatively simple. I would feel bad, win or lose. This is not, however, the fault of the parents ort he children. It is my own problem. If the kids want to duel, let them. Just teach them what they need to know.
As for behaviour, I agree with Collie. Riley, Rhiannon, Slainie, and Aggy are better behaved than many adult duelists. Agrenish, Skyler, Lupton, and Jesse all come to mind. Though to call them adults is a stretch too.
I have said my piece. Flame away.
The White Duke
Date: 06 Oct 1998 05:37:43 EDT
I will go ahead and speak my piece.
First, on the debate about children dueling. I don't duel them. The reason is actually relatively simple. I would feel bad, win or lose. This is not, however, the fault of the parents ort he children. It is my own problem. If the kids want to duel, let them. Just teach them what they need to know.
As for behaviour, I agree with Collie. Riley, Rhiannon, Slainie, and Aggy are better behaved than many adult duelists. Agrenish, Skyler, Lupton, and Jesse all come to mind. Though to call them adults is a stretch too.
I have said my piece. Flame away.
The White Duke
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 06 Oct 1998 20:39:58 EDT
::chuckles to herself, writing::
Lupton~
No doubt Lorran will be disappointed to hear your position. Our son has taken a great intrest in stepping into the rings as soon as possible (luckily he knows that 3 is just too young), as you might have noticed. I do believe you're going to have a pouting 3-year-old on your hands if you tell him.
Everyone else~
You all have valid opinions, but I believe this is something that should be handled on an individual basis. If you feel your child is capable of handling themselves in the ring, have at. If not, don't. Just take to heart the consequences of each side before jumping to conclusions.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
Date: 06 Oct 1998 20:39:58 EDT
::chuckles to herself, writing::
Lupton~
No doubt Lorran will be disappointed to hear your position. Our son has taken a great intrest in stepping into the rings as soon as possible (luckily he knows that 3 is just too young), as you might have noticed. I do believe you're going to have a pouting 3-year-old on your hands if you tell him.
Everyone else~
You all have valid opinions, but I believe this is something that should be handled on an individual basis. If you feel your child is capable of handling themselves in the ring, have at. If not, don't. Just take to heart the consequences of each side before jumping to conclusions.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 06 Oct 1998 21:53:19 EDT
> The most amazing thing to me is all this concern for the welfare of children
>comes from people that wouldn't urinate on a burning adult if they were on
>fire.
What a sweeping generalization. "All" the concern from people? I think you mistake the fact that some would not save *you* from the fire rather than just having a general apathy toward adults.
Date: 06 Oct 1998 21:53:19 EDT
> The most amazing thing to me is all this concern for the welfare of children
>comes from people that wouldn't urinate on a burning adult if they were on
>fire.
What a sweeping generalization. "All" the concern from people? I think you mistake the fact that some would not save *you* from the fire rather than just having a general apathy toward adults.
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 06 Oct 1998 21:53:19 EDT
> The most amazing thing to me is all this concern for the welfare of children
>comes from people that wouldn't urinate on a burning adult if they were on
>fire.
What a sweeping generalization. "All" the concern from people? I think you mistake the fact that some would not save *you* from the fire rather than just having a general apathy toward adults.
Date: 06 Oct 1998 21:53:19 EDT
> The most amazing thing to me is all this concern for the welfare of children
>comes from people that wouldn't urinate on a burning adult if they were on
>fire.
What a sweeping generalization. "All" the concern from people? I think you mistake the fact that some would not save *you* from the fire rather than just having a general apathy toward adults.
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From: dukeuziei@aol.com (Duke UzieI)
Date: 07 Oct 1998 03:28:10 EDT
And what a stunning observation that is.
Amazingly though...as general as it seems. Its my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Maybe not just me eh Morgan? Maybe everyone eh?
~Adonai
The buttons are gone quit poking me in the forehead
Date: 07 Oct 1998 03:28:10 EDT
And what a stunning observation that is.
Amazingly though...as general as it seems. Its my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Maybe not just me eh Morgan? Maybe everyone eh?
~Adonai
The buttons are gone quit poking me in the forehead
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From: guyysavage@aol.com (GuyySavage)
Date: 07 Oct 1998 17:14:51 EDT
<<... All in all its pretty simple people.....if you don't like your children dueling...then don't let them duel....those are YOUR children. Try and not tell the rest of us how to raise ours. You all take this...and yourselves....far to seriously. ...>>
A comment in response to the assertion that it is not anyone's place to determine how other people's kids are raised.
Whether or not it is appropriate for kids to be training with arms and at what age their training should begin is certainly a subject of debate. There are studies that suggest that beginning some forms of athletic activity too young can be very hard on the child body which was not intented to withstand that sort of punishment.
Regardless of the opinions about what the correct age is for training to begin, there is a community responsibility to protect the welfare of the community.
It may not be within the rights of the community to say that you cannot train your child to be a warrior starting from age 3, but it is certainly within the rights and responsibilities of that community to prohibit that child from participating in a public activity the community deems too violent or too dangerous for them.
Children are people too, but until such time as they have the mental maturity to understand, weigh, and respect the consequences of their actions, it is beholden upon their elders, as their guardians, to make decisions in their best interests. Allowing children within the rings to face adult opponents is certainly something about which the community should have a voice.
Guy Savage
Assistant Editor
Duely Noted
Date: 07 Oct 1998 17:14:51 EDT
<<... All in all its pretty simple people.....if you don't like your children dueling...then don't let them duel....those are YOUR children. Try and not tell the rest of us how to raise ours. You all take this...and yourselves....far to seriously. ...>>
A comment in response to the assertion that it is not anyone's place to determine how other people's kids are raised.
Whether or not it is appropriate for kids to be training with arms and at what age their training should begin is certainly a subject of debate. There are studies that suggest that beginning some forms of athletic activity too young can be very hard on the child body which was not intented to withstand that sort of punishment.
Regardless of the opinions about what the correct age is for training to begin, there is a community responsibility to protect the welfare of the community.
It may not be within the rights of the community to say that you cannot train your child to be a warrior starting from age 3, but it is certainly within the rights and responsibilities of that community to prohibit that child from participating in a public activity the community deems too violent or too dangerous for them.
Children are people too, but until such time as they have the mental maturity to understand, weigh, and respect the consequences of their actions, it is beholden upon their elders, as their guardians, to make decisions in their best interests. Allowing children within the rings to face adult opponents is certainly something about which the community should have a voice.
Guy Savage
Assistant Editor
Duely Noted
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 07 Oct 1998 20:38:07 EDT
Guy,
I have two questions. Do you have children? Do you plan to raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials?
I would also like to point out that you and Sonya, who are so quick to voice opinions here are not noted in the standings as having even raised a blade in the arena. No, you will not at present find my name there, but it has been in the past.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
Date: 07 Oct 1998 20:38:07 EDT
Guy,
I have two questions. Do you have children? Do you plan to raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials?
I would also like to point out that you and Sonya, who are so quick to voice opinions here are not noted in the standings as having even raised a blade in the arena. No, you will not at present find my name there, but it has been in the past.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 07 Oct 1998 20:38:07 EDT
Guy,
I have two questions. Do you have children? Do you plan to raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials?
I would also like to point out that you and Sonya, who are so quick to voice opinions here are not noted in the standings as having even raised a blade in the arena. No, you will not at present find my name there, but it has been in the past.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
Date: 07 Oct 1998 20:38:07 EDT
Guy,
I have two questions. Do you have children? Do you plan to raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials?
I would also like to point out that you and Sonya, who are so quick to voice opinions here are not noted in the standings as having even raised a blade in the arena. No, you will not at present find my name there, but it has been in the past.
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher
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Date: 07 Oct 1998 22:23:03 EDT
Collie wrote: << I have two questions. Do you have children? Do you plan to raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials?
>>
Ms. MacLeod-Lasher,
Do I have kids? Nope. Nor does my sister, Sonja.
Will I raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials? Again, no. Of course that's probably because I didn't say what my stance was with regard to children in the dueling rings. It's my contention that the community has a right and responsibility to decide at what age children should be allowed in the rings. I did not attempt to speak for that community and say what the age should be. I apologize if my earlier words were not
clear.
After weighing the dangers and risks, if the community elects to allow kids of some age in the rings, then the community will have fulfilled its responsibilities to watch out for the welfare of children.
If you want my opinion about whether kids belong in the rings, and/or at what age, you will have to read it in Duely Noted.
-Guy Savage
Assistant Editor
Duely Noted
http://www.redgoblin.com/duelynoted
P.S. To my knowledge, this is only the second or third time I have posted to any of the DoS boards. Additionally, I think this is the first time I have expressed anything close to an opinion. So, to state that I am "quick to voice an opinion" is erroneous. My sister on the other hand, Sonja (with a J not a Y), has a mind of her own and if she jumps in with both feet that is her perogative.
As for not being noted in the standings of this sport, that much is true, though I am not certain why that would invalidate my opinion (had I expressed one).
Collie wrote: << I have two questions. Do you have children? Do you plan to raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials?
>>
Ms. MacLeod-Lasher,
Do I have kids? Nope. Nor does my sister, Sonja.
Will I raise the issue of age to the Duel of Swords officials? Again, no. Of course that's probably because I didn't say what my stance was with regard to children in the dueling rings. It's my contention that the community has a right and responsibility to decide at what age children should be allowed in the rings. I did not attempt to speak for that community and say what the age should be. I apologize if my earlier words were not
clear.
After weighing the dangers and risks, if the community elects to allow kids of some age in the rings, then the community will have fulfilled its responsibilities to watch out for the welfare of children.
If you want my opinion about whether kids belong in the rings, and/or at what age, you will have to read it in Duely Noted.
-Guy Savage
Assistant Editor
Duely Noted
http://www.redgoblin.com/duelynoted
P.S. To my knowledge, this is only the second or third time I have posted to any of the DoS boards. Additionally, I think this is the first time I have expressed anything close to an opinion. So, to state that I am "quick to voice an opinion" is erroneous. My sister on the other hand, Sonja (with a J not a Y), has a mind of her own and if she jumps in with both feet that is her perogative.
As for not being noted in the standings of this sport, that much is true, though I am not certain why that would invalidate my opinion (had I expressed one).
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From: jheartman1@aol.com (JHeartMan1)
Date: 07 Oct 1998 22:27:59 EDT
ok!! ok... people... this is a record for me!! stop with the replies!! I got 43, guys... stop!
Jake M. Heart...sincerely
DoS's Warlord Dude
Date: 07 Oct 1998 22:27:59 EDT
ok!! ok... people... this is a record for me!! stop with the replies!! I got 43, guys... stop!
Jake M. Heart...sincerely
DoS's Warlord Dude