From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 21 Nov 1998 08:52:18 EST
> is the insane amount of attack Jonalyn has been under simply because she
>finds the matter of boldly breaking a rule to be so distasteful.
::The warlord thinks for a second about this statement then mutters to himself::
Hm...didn't Dal break a rule? She didn't find that so distasteful...hm....
Time in Question
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From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 21 Nov 1998 12:43:58 EST
::reads Jeff's words and smile very satisfied with herself and her life. Beckon's Hubie over and gives him a gold piece - one from Collies most generous pile. Winks::
An' they say me Jeff just be a brawny man wi' a wicked way o' slashin' his ax. Mayhaps they best note how well he slash wi' words.
::Saunters off whistling, just because the world is grand and her table at home all ways bountiful with love::
Date: 21 Nov 1998 12:43:58 EST
::reads Jeff's words and smile very satisfied with herself and her life. Beckon's Hubie over and gives him a gold piece - one from Collies most generous pile. Winks::
An' they say me Jeff just be a brawny man wi' a wicked way o' slashin' his ax. Mayhaps they best note how well he slash wi' words.
::Saunters off whistling, just because the world is grand and her table at home all ways bountiful with love::
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 21 Nov 1998 17:16:26 EST
In my opinion,
There could have been a note left for Jaycy's servant stating to not send the letter until when the standings were out. This is, of course, if that happened. I don't know what really happened.
The last three peer wins, number ten, eleven, and twelve were not posted the week it was submitted, thus the challenge was reasonably invalid.
What I also know is that Jaycy and Luc were both going to challenge Evan, and it can be assumed both knew. I commend Luc for waiting; it's too bad though that people can now approach the coordinator and get some sort of loophole. That seems to be fact.
There have been too many stories said here as to why the challenge was submitted early. Maybe some animal thought it was a newspaper and brought the challenge to everyone, I don't know. To be blunt, I would almost not care, except for the fact that there was someone else who was going to challenge. I am sure if nobody else was challenging, it could be safely assumed that the challenge could be rescinded and postponed till the standings came
out.
Jaycy directly broke the rules, in my opinion. She had the opportunity to rectify her mistake, but she didn't. It wasn't Helix's consent, her servant's presumptuous submitting of challenge, or the gust of wind that blew the notice everywhere by some freak of nature; it was Jaycy's "as long as I get the ring" attitude.
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 21 Nov 1998 17:16:26 EST
In my opinion,
There could have been a note left for Jaycy's servant stating to not send the letter until when the standings were out. This is, of course, if that happened. I don't know what really happened.
The last three peer wins, number ten, eleven, and twelve were not posted the week it was submitted, thus the challenge was reasonably invalid.
What I also know is that Jaycy and Luc were both going to challenge Evan, and it can be assumed both knew. I commend Luc for waiting; it's too bad though that people can now approach the coordinator and get some sort of loophole. That seems to be fact.
There have been too many stories said here as to why the challenge was submitted early. Maybe some animal thought it was a newspaper and brought the challenge to everyone, I don't know. To be blunt, I would almost not care, except for the fact that there was someone else who was going to challenge. I am sure if nobody else was challenging, it could be safely assumed that the challenge could be rescinded and postponed till the standings came
out.
Jaycy directly broke the rules, in my opinion. She had the opportunity to rectify her mistake, but she didn't. It wasn't Helix's consent, her servant's presumptuous submitting of challenge, or the gust of wind that blew the notice everywhere by some freak of nature; it was Jaycy's "as long as I get the ring" attitude.
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: noellemg@aol.com (Noelle MG)
Date: 21 Nov 1998 19:49:52 EST
::smiles softly as she agrees with Var, though a bit more tolerant than her dear husband::
One would think her servant would not be allowed, nor procure her peer wins without Jaycy's expressed consent. A mistress is responsible for her servant's actions. Simply, is a sent messenger...responsible for the written content carried? The fault lies with Lady Jaycy, in that she had an invalid win. It matters not, if twas innocent or knowingly. One fact remains, rules need to be strictly adhered to, for the sake of fair play, thus not to slight
others. When one allows themselves to benefit from a wrong, it is an injustice to all. I wish to say that I mean no personal disrespect to the lady Jaycynda. And I believe that none should dare question that this lady in donning the uniform, be taken to task as *knowing better*...for not one among us is free from error. (awaits Agrenish's response to that comment) Tis how we rectify and right our errors that is meaningful. Rules are of the utmost
importance, and should not go lapsed...past, present nor future.
Respectfully,
Lady Noelle Medici-Giovanni
[deeply in love with the 10th Baron]
Date: 21 Nov 1998 19:49:52 EST
::smiles softly as she agrees with Var, though a bit more tolerant than her dear husband::
One would think her servant would not be allowed, nor procure her peer wins without Jaycy's expressed consent. A mistress is responsible for her servant's actions. Simply, is a sent messenger...responsible for the written content carried? The fault lies with Lady Jaycy, in that she had an invalid win. It matters not, if twas innocent or knowingly. One fact remains, rules need to be strictly adhered to, for the sake of fair play, thus not to slight
others. When one allows themselves to benefit from a wrong, it is an injustice to all. I wish to say that I mean no personal disrespect to the lady Jaycynda. And I believe that none should dare question that this lady in donning the uniform, be taken to task as *knowing better*...for not one among us is free from error. (awaits Agrenish's response to that comment) Tis how we rectify and right our errors that is meaningful. Rules are of the utmost
importance, and should not go lapsed...past, present nor future.
Respectfully,
Lady Noelle Medici-Giovanni
[deeply in love with the 10th Baron]
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 21 Nov 1998 20:51:17 EST
I love the support from Fellow House members.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
Date: 21 Nov 1998 20:51:17 EST
I love the support from Fellow House members.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 21 Nov 1998 23:07:48 EST
Amen, G-man.
Collie
Colleen Lasher
House Dragoon Talanador
Member of Dracoern Highlands TDL - Journeyman
Commoner - Duel of Swords
Date: 21 Nov 1998 23:07:48 EST
Amen, G-man.
Collie
Colleen Lasher
House Dragoon Talanador
Member of Dracoern Highlands TDL - Journeyman
Commoner - Duel of Swords
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From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 03:06:00 EST
Makes you wonder sometimes don't it G..
Gim
Date: 22 Nov 1998 03:06:00 EST
Makes you wonder sometimes don't it G..
Gim
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 05:35:32 EST
To the members of DoS,
This is a copy of a missive I have sent to the House Dragoon Talanador, and in it includes the reasons for Noelle and I leaving the house. This is just for informational purposes, and this is all I'm saying regarding the subject.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Holder of the Tenth_–¯
---------------------------------------------------------------
To the members of House Dragoon Talanador,
It's clear the policies of the house happen to be things my wife and I don't agree with. Now some feel as a house should be unity, for unity sake alone. My views conflict with this notion.
G spoke up against Heath (an alleged friend), when Heath made a comment regarding Dal's father's death. Why did G do that? Because he disagreed, nothing wrong with that. Noelle and I disagree with how Jaycy has refused to accept responsibility in her quest for the ring she wears. Noelle and I waited patiently, hoping she would do some soul searching. When a reasonable time passed, we needed to speak honestly.
One of the apparent policies of this house is formation of a line and standing together without question and individual opinion. We view this as an act of dishonor. If that's what you have to be, then that is perfectly okay for some, but it's something I'd rather not do.
Gimm doesn't have to "wonder" anymore, as he has posted, and G doesn't have to worry about house members refusing to stand quietly as Jaycy lacks the ability to stand honorably and forthright, because the two who are viewed as "antagonists" here, are leaving House Dragoon Talanador.
Regarding the Jade Gryphons... It's safe to assume G wouldn't want me on the team even if I did want to take part of it still. Either way, I'm not staying on the team, and Noelle stands proudly beside me.
Maybe there's a dueling house large enough to hold *thinking* people. When Noelle and I find another house, if a member does something we strongly feel is wrong, perhaps the head of the house will be reasonable enough to not expect us to voice no opinion and follow as blind sheep.
On a final note... There are people in the house whom Lady Noelle and I hold in high regard. They know who they are, and they probably know how Noelle and I feel on this subject (and hopefully they know the words above were not directed toward them). Noelle and I send those people our heartfelt best wishes. To the others, Noelle and I do not wish you ill will, for we're not vindictive. We just wish to say farewell.
Simply,
Lord Var and Lady Noelle Medici-Giovanni
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 22 Nov 1998 05:35:32 EST
To the members of DoS,
This is a copy of a missive I have sent to the House Dragoon Talanador, and in it includes the reasons for Noelle and I leaving the house. This is just for informational purposes, and this is all I'm saying regarding the subject.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
¯–_Proud Father, Proud Husband_–¯
¯–_Holder of the Tenth_–¯
---------------------------------------------------------------
To the members of House Dragoon Talanador,
It's clear the policies of the house happen to be things my wife and I don't agree with. Now some feel as a house should be unity, for unity sake alone. My views conflict with this notion.
G spoke up against Heath (an alleged friend), when Heath made a comment regarding Dal's father's death. Why did G do that? Because he disagreed, nothing wrong with that. Noelle and I disagree with how Jaycy has refused to accept responsibility in her quest for the ring she wears. Noelle and I waited patiently, hoping she would do some soul searching. When a reasonable time passed, we needed to speak honestly.
One of the apparent policies of this house is formation of a line and standing together without question and individual opinion. We view this as an act of dishonor. If that's what you have to be, then that is perfectly okay for some, but it's something I'd rather not do.
Gimm doesn't have to "wonder" anymore, as he has posted, and G doesn't have to worry about house members refusing to stand quietly as Jaycy lacks the ability to stand honorably and forthright, because the two who are viewed as "antagonists" here, are leaving House Dragoon Talanador.
Regarding the Jade Gryphons... It's safe to assume G wouldn't want me on the team even if I did want to take part of it still. Either way, I'm not staying on the team, and Noelle stands proudly beside me.
Maybe there's a dueling house large enough to hold *thinking* people. When Noelle and I find another house, if a member does something we strongly feel is wrong, perhaps the head of the house will be reasonable enough to not expect us to voice no opinion and follow as blind sheep.
On a final note... There are people in the house whom Lady Noelle and I hold in high regard. They know who they are, and they probably know how Noelle and I feel on this subject (and hopefully they know the words above were not directed toward them). Noelle and I send those people our heartfelt best wishes. To the others, Noelle and I do not wish you ill will, for we're not vindictive. We just wish to say farewell.
Simply,
Lord Var and Lady Noelle Medici-Giovanni
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 07:08:14 EST
((Author's note: Please be advised that this letter is being posted for informational purposes only and was sent only to House D-T members. At the time I read the mail I was not aware Var's player had placed it up for public viewing, so Collie's answer isn't.))
Var and Noelle,
You have every right to leave the house and team as you see fit, however, few have been more outspoken than myself on these issues. Unless I need to go back and reread, I saw nothing where personal attacks were made on either of you.
Soul searching? How dare you presume to know what thoughts are in Jaycynda's mind. That is something not even Jonalyn Starfare has done in her quest to discredit Jaycy. Perhaps you should speak to her directly instead of making assumptions of what is in her heart. You are apparently allowed by your wife to speak on her behalf, Var, but do not assume you have the right to speak for someone outside of your family.
House policy? I beg your pardon, but when I was invited by Gnort to join this house there was one thing he believed in... that a dueling house is a group of friends united in their friendship and their love of dueling. I'm am as anti-Dal for OverLord as they come, but does that taint my friendship with Gnort? No, not that he has informed me.
Lady Colleen MacLeod Lasher of Navarra
House Dragoon Talanador
Dracoern Highlands - Journeyman
Duel of Swords - Commoner
Date: 22 Nov 1998 07:08:14 EST
((Author's note: Please be advised that this letter is being posted for informational purposes only and was sent only to House D-T members. At the time I read the mail I was not aware Var's player had placed it up for public viewing, so Collie's answer isn't.))
Var and Noelle,
You have every right to leave the house and team as you see fit, however, few have been more outspoken than myself on these issues. Unless I need to go back and reread, I saw nothing where personal attacks were made on either of you.
Soul searching? How dare you presume to know what thoughts are in Jaycynda's mind. That is something not even Jonalyn Starfare has done in her quest to discredit Jaycy. Perhaps you should speak to her directly instead of making assumptions of what is in her heart. You are apparently allowed by your wife to speak on her behalf, Var, but do not assume you have the right to speak for someone outside of your family.
House policy? I beg your pardon, but when I was invited by Gnort to join this house there was one thing he believed in... that a dueling house is a group of friends united in their friendship and their love of dueling. I'm am as anti-Dal for OverLord as they come, but does that taint my friendship with Gnort? No, not that he has informed me.
Lady Colleen MacLeod Lasher of Navarra
House Dragoon Talanador
Dracoern Highlands - Journeyman
Duel of Swords - Commoner
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 07:08:34 EST
As Var has decided to post his letter to the House, I will respond with counter points.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Now some feel as a house should be unity, for unity sake alone. My views conflict with this notion.
Never once did I state that the entire House should be unified for the sake of unity alone. I have more than once stated that House Members are free to their own opinions. Such as Collie's standing against Dal where I stand for him.
Noelle and I disagree with how Jaycy has refused to accept responsibility in her quest for the ring she wears.
Now, I freely admit I have no problem with disagreeing with anyone. What I had a problem with was the fact that a Fellow House member speaking out against another member. Jaycy has indeed admitted her mistakes on the matter, and it wasn't nessacery for anyone else to join in on pretty much bashing her for something she knows she was in error on.
One of the apparent policies of this house is formation of a line and standing together without question and individual opinion.
This House as few policies as it stands, and it's far from standing together in a line and all agreeing without question or indivdual opinion. It's widely known that there are many who disagree with each other in our House. Percy, Collie, Myself, Gimm, many of us have unaligned issues concerning a great many things. Var, himself has been one of the most vocal people of the House, and never once was he critisized by other members for his views.
I have always supported everyones right to have their own views.
My problem comes with the fact that since this is something that directly concerns another member, I cannot approve of another member speaking out on an already beat on subject negatively torwards that member.
G doesn't have to worry about house members refusing to stand quietly as Jaycy lacks the ability to stand honorably and forthright, because the two who are viewed as "antagonists" here, are leaving House Dragoon Talanador.
I know better than to think Var would stand by quietly, I've known him far too long to think that. Nor have I, and as far as I know, anyone else viewed Var and Noelle as "Antagonists". Jaycy, as I have said, has indeed admitted her fault in the matter. I disagree with the fact of fellow House members adding fuel to an already large fire. Jaycy has not stood by quietly, and calling her
Dishonorable is grossly incorrect, as I find her to be one of the most honorable and finest individual this sport has seen in quite some time.
Regarding the Jade Gryphons... It's safe to assume G wouldn't want me on the team even if I did want to take part of it still.
The Jade Gryphons may be a part of the House teams, but Drake has full control over who is a member of that team, regardless of the person. If she wanted Lupton or Agrenish or anyone else who I am on less then friendly terms on that team, it's her call, not mine. So that part is entirely up to you. (Keeping in mind that I am -not- comparing Var to either of those people. I would still like to
consider him a friend.)
Maybe there's a dueling house large enough to hold *thinking* people. When Noelle and I find another house, if a member does something we strongly feel is wrong, perhaps the head of the house will be reasonable enough to not expect us to voice no opinion and follow as blind sheep.
I find that remark highly insulting. You are inferring that HDT is made up of non thinking people. And that's not something I would take lightly. A formal reply to the House would be acceptable, in my opinion. For I know that there are many, if not all, who are far more capable of intellegent thought. And at no point does anyone "Follow as blind sheep" in this House. Everyone is free to think
and speak their own mind as much as they always have been. Drake, Collie, Percy, and everyone who are constantly posting their thoughts are prime examples of this. And they most times differ in opinion.
Again, what my main disagreement has been is the fact that Var, while a member, had spoken out against Jaycy, a fellow member, concerning an incedent that has been brought up by others. There was not a need for him to publicly speak out against her in this way, especially when it would have been best left to private mailings had the need been there. Jaycy has before admitted her mistake.
I am sure there will be numerous responses to this post, likely from Var, I'd expect nothing less on the subject. And I hold no ill will torwards him as a friend.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
Date: 22 Nov 1998 07:08:34 EST
As Var has decided to post his letter to the House, I will respond with counter points.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Now some feel as a house should be unity, for unity sake alone. My views conflict with this notion.
Never once did I state that the entire House should be unified for the sake of unity alone. I have more than once stated that House Members are free to their own opinions. Such as Collie's standing against Dal where I stand for him.
Noelle and I disagree with how Jaycy has refused to accept responsibility in her quest for the ring she wears.
Now, I freely admit I have no problem with disagreeing with anyone. What I had a problem with was the fact that a Fellow House member speaking out against another member. Jaycy has indeed admitted her mistakes on the matter, and it wasn't nessacery for anyone else to join in on pretty much bashing her for something she knows she was in error on.
One of the apparent policies of this house is formation of a line and standing together without question and individual opinion.
This House as few policies as it stands, and it's far from standing together in a line and all agreeing without question or indivdual opinion. It's widely known that there are many who disagree with each other in our House. Percy, Collie, Myself, Gimm, many of us have unaligned issues concerning a great many things. Var, himself has been one of the most vocal people of the House, and never once was he critisized by other members for his views.
I have always supported everyones right to have their own views.
My problem comes with the fact that since this is something that directly concerns another member, I cannot approve of another member speaking out on an already beat on subject negatively torwards that member.
G doesn't have to worry about house members refusing to stand quietly as Jaycy lacks the ability to stand honorably and forthright, because the two who are viewed as "antagonists" here, are leaving House Dragoon Talanador.
I know better than to think Var would stand by quietly, I've known him far too long to think that. Nor have I, and as far as I know, anyone else viewed Var and Noelle as "Antagonists". Jaycy, as I have said, has indeed admitted her fault in the matter. I disagree with the fact of fellow House members adding fuel to an already large fire. Jaycy has not stood by quietly, and calling her
Dishonorable is grossly incorrect, as I find her to be one of the most honorable and finest individual this sport has seen in quite some time.
Regarding the Jade Gryphons... It's safe to assume G wouldn't want me on the team even if I did want to take part of it still.
The Jade Gryphons may be a part of the House teams, but Drake has full control over who is a member of that team, regardless of the person. If she wanted Lupton or Agrenish or anyone else who I am on less then friendly terms on that team, it's her call, not mine. So that part is entirely up to you. (Keeping in mind that I am -not- comparing Var to either of those people. I would still like to
consider him a friend.)
Maybe there's a dueling house large enough to hold *thinking* people. When Noelle and I find another house, if a member does something we strongly feel is wrong, perhaps the head of the house will be reasonable enough to not expect us to voice no opinion and follow as blind sheep.
I find that remark highly insulting. You are inferring that HDT is made up of non thinking people. And that's not something I would take lightly. A formal reply to the House would be acceptable, in my opinion. For I know that there are many, if not all, who are far more capable of intellegent thought. And at no point does anyone "Follow as blind sheep" in this House. Everyone is free to think
and speak their own mind as much as they always have been. Drake, Collie, Percy, and everyone who are constantly posting their thoughts are prime examples of this. And they most times differ in opinion.
Again, what my main disagreement has been is the fact that Var, while a member, had spoken out against Jaycy, a fellow member, concerning an incedent that has been brought up by others. There was not a need for him to publicly speak out against her in this way, especially when it would have been best left to private mailings had the need been there. Jaycy has before admitted her mistake.
I am sure there will be numerous responses to this post, likely from Var, I'd expect nothing less on the subject. And I hold no ill will torwards him as a friend.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
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From: noellemg@aol.com (Noelle MG)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 08:06:36 EST
::softly:: Lady Jaycynda admitting her error is not the same as taking responsibility for that error. The ring was falsely won, for she had no right to press the challenge. And where is the honor in that? An honorable person would not keep the title and the ring. I've stood quietly and silent long time, praying the lady would see her wrongdoing and right it. Did you think this was a witch hunt or attack upon
her personally? I've no quarrel with her personally. Only a small person would hurt another for personal gain. Had it been anyone else...other than Jaycy, I'd feel this strongly. Rules are to benefit all and it was not fair to the man who previously and proudly wore that ring upon his finger, nor to the one who might have challenged, but for the lady's haste and error. Please understand I mean no ill upon you, Lady Jaycynda...under different
circumstances we might have been friends.
Sincerely,
Lady Noelle
Date: 22 Nov 1998 08:06:36 EST
::softly:: Lady Jaycynda admitting her error is not the same as taking responsibility for that error. The ring was falsely won, for she had no right to press the challenge. And where is the honor in that? An honorable person would not keep the title and the ring. I've stood quietly and silent long time, praying the lady would see her wrongdoing and right it. Did you think this was a witch hunt or attack upon
her personally? I've no quarrel with her personally. Only a small person would hurt another for personal gain. Had it been anyone else...other than Jaycy, I'd feel this strongly. Rules are to benefit all and it was not fair to the man who previously and proudly wore that ring upon his finger, nor to the one who might have challenged, but for the lady's haste and error. Please understand I mean no ill upon you, Lady Jaycynda...under different
circumstances we might have been friends.
Sincerely,
Lady Noelle
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From: silentcris@aol.com (SilentCris)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 14:22:37 EST
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.
I believe this has truly gotten ridiculous now.
If what Jaycynda Ashleana has done is so morally corrupt that she should give up her "illgotten" ring, then perhaps we should ask for the heads of the officials who allowed the challenge to go forward in the first place as well. And, while we're at it, why not demand the head of the former Baron whose ring she won, since I can't seem to find any form of argument from him as to the legality of the challenge at any time before the challenge occured.
For as much as the Baroness could be considered in the "wrong", there is a process every challenge goes through before it enters the rings and there were countless times within this process where the legality could have been called into question. In effect, the statute of limitations ran out long ago.
It has been stated that her servant issued the challenge without her knowledge because she had prewritten it... to me, it seems she is about as much at fault as the Overlord was for missing one of his challenges. Degree of fault notwithstanding, Baroness Ashleana has every right to wear her ring and wear it proudly. Anyone that says otherwise can either a) stop moaning about the wheretofores and moral standards and challenge for the ring to put it
in more "honorable" hands or b) just accept the fact that the woman isn't going to relinquish her ring and find more pressing matters to attend to or c) keep bellyaching and issuing the same arguments over and over and over again. If she does relinquish her ring and give in to the demands of the obviously moral and upstanding citizens of the DoS, I will be truly disappointed.
This argument has gone on long enough. The day people part ways with friends over the case of a silly little trinket and valid peer wins is the day this sport is officially in trouble. I think perhaps it's time to let this case drop before this idiocy goes any farther.
Disgustedly,
Cristian de Oro
Date: 22 Nov 1998 14:22:37 EST
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.
I believe this has truly gotten ridiculous now.
If what Jaycynda Ashleana has done is so morally corrupt that she should give up her "illgotten" ring, then perhaps we should ask for the heads of the officials who allowed the challenge to go forward in the first place as well. And, while we're at it, why not demand the head of the former Baron whose ring she won, since I can't seem to find any form of argument from him as to the legality of the challenge at any time before the challenge occured.
For as much as the Baroness could be considered in the "wrong", there is a process every challenge goes through before it enters the rings and there were countless times within this process where the legality could have been called into question. In effect, the statute of limitations ran out long ago.
It has been stated that her servant issued the challenge without her knowledge because she had prewritten it... to me, it seems she is about as much at fault as the Overlord was for missing one of his challenges. Degree of fault notwithstanding, Baroness Ashleana has every right to wear her ring and wear it proudly. Anyone that says otherwise can either a) stop moaning about the wheretofores and moral standards and challenge for the ring to put it
in more "honorable" hands or b) just accept the fact that the woman isn't going to relinquish her ring and find more pressing matters to attend to or c) keep bellyaching and issuing the same arguments over and over and over again. If she does relinquish her ring and give in to the demands of the obviously moral and upstanding citizens of the DoS, I will be truly disappointed.
This argument has gone on long enough. The day people part ways with friends over the case of a silly little trinket and valid peer wins is the day this sport is officially in trouble. I think perhaps it's time to let this case drop before this idiocy goes any farther.
Disgustedly,
Cristian de Oro
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 16:27:26 EST
I do not want Jaycy to retire her ring. I want Jaycy to stand up, with total sincerity, and take responsibility for what she did. It is not Helix's fault, it is not Jaycy's servant's fault. It is Jaycy's fault the challenge was improperly served.
Something else that bothers me is that so many are quite willing to disregard this fact and point fingers to blame everyone else but the person who started this in the first place. Perhaps it is because you do not want to admit you were wrong and were fighting for a very wrong cause?
Please, continue detracting from the issue to save face. Blame Jonalyn, blame me, blame everyone else but Jaycy. Try to make the case that this is not that important, it is only a trinket, only a few duels. Yes, a very clever detraction attempt. Those of us with any semblance of reason know the truth. The motivations, the rationalizations, the whispered machinations, the denials, the minimalizing -- none of it means anything except for the fact
that Jaycy issued her challenge early in the morning on October 6th using peer wins that were not considered binding until the standings came out no earlier than the evening of the 6th and as late as the 7th. I do not care who told her she could do it. I do not care why she did it. I care that she did do it and then refused to take responsibility for it. I do not buy the ignorance clause. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.
Jaycy, can you see that by not taking responsibility, you are allowing Jonalyn to draw the fire for something that you put the match to in the first place? You do your friends supporting you a great disservice by encouraging them to go after a blameless woman and use whatever tactics to taint her credibility. I cannot sit silent while aspersions are cast to Jonalyn for bringing up the truth simply because you have the luxury of popular opinion.
Date: 22 Nov 1998 16:27:26 EST
I do not want Jaycy to retire her ring. I want Jaycy to stand up, with total sincerity, and take responsibility for what she did. It is not Helix's fault, it is not Jaycy's servant's fault. It is Jaycy's fault the challenge was improperly served.
Something else that bothers me is that so many are quite willing to disregard this fact and point fingers to blame everyone else but the person who started this in the first place. Perhaps it is because you do not want to admit you were wrong and were fighting for a very wrong cause?
Please, continue detracting from the issue to save face. Blame Jonalyn, blame me, blame everyone else but Jaycy. Try to make the case that this is not that important, it is only a trinket, only a few duels. Yes, a very clever detraction attempt. Those of us with any semblance of reason know the truth. The motivations, the rationalizations, the whispered machinations, the denials, the minimalizing -- none of it means anything except for the fact
that Jaycy issued her challenge early in the morning on October 6th using peer wins that were not considered binding until the standings came out no earlier than the evening of the 6th and as late as the 7th. I do not care who told her she could do it. I do not care why she did it. I care that she did do it and then refused to take responsibility for it. I do not buy the ignorance clause. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.
Jaycy, can you see that by not taking responsibility, you are allowing Jonalyn to draw the fire for something that you put the match to in the first place? You do your friends supporting you a great disservice by encouraging them to go after a blameless woman and use whatever tactics to taint her credibility. I cannot sit silent while aspersions are cast to Jonalyn for bringing up the truth simply because you have the luxury of popular opinion.
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 16:59:26 EST
Morgan,
I have always respected your opinion and thought highly of you. That hasn't changed. I think what I appreciate most about you is you address people with great civility until they attack you personally and then they deserve to be bitten and hard.
I believe my thinking on this matter goes back to when Jonalyn stated that Jaycy's reign began in deceit. She was asked to speak then and held her tongue, perhaps had she spoken then when she was called upon to this discussion wouldn't be happening. Jona refused, instead holding it until now to bring it up again.
I do not blame Jona for what happened. I have pointed out that some of her facts regarding the standings are incorrect such as her original statement that Jaycy was noted as having dueled on the sixth. I blame Jona for holding her tongue when she should not have. The issue could and should have been settled then.
Collie
Date: 22 Nov 1998 16:59:26 EST
Morgan,
I have always respected your opinion and thought highly of you. That hasn't changed. I think what I appreciate most about you is you address people with great civility until they attack you personally and then they deserve to be bitten and hard.
I believe my thinking on this matter goes back to when Jonalyn stated that Jaycy's reign began in deceit. She was asked to speak then and held her tongue, perhaps had she spoken then when she was called upon to this discussion wouldn't be happening. Jona refused, instead holding it until now to bring it up again.
I do not blame Jona for what happened. I have pointed out that some of her facts regarding the standings are incorrect such as her original statement that Jaycy was noted as having dueled on the sixth. I blame Jona for holding her tongue when she should not have. The issue could and should have been settled then.
Collie
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 22 Nov 1998 20:29:15 EST
The commoner breaks into merry peals of laughter as she peruses Madame Lasher's comments.
Colleen,
I dinna state that Madame Ashleana didst in fact duel 'pon the sixth day of the tenth moon, though tis recorded so in the standings lists. I merely pointed that out. Naturally it couldna hae happened for I dinna disbelieve Madame Ashleana's comments, yet, from the standings lists one could presume she had indeed been present in Rhydin 'pon the sixth day of the tenth moon. I have pointed out to you, quite simply, the fallacy thou wouldst
perpetuate ast to the date the standings didst become public.
Thou shalt pardon mine amusement if I find thine comments beyond droll. Madame Ashleana wast given every opportunity to speak yet she continued to hold her tongue, yet thou dost nae attach anna blame to her for doing such. Thou now comes and dost blame me for holding mine?
Amusedly,
Jona.
Date: 22 Nov 1998 20:29:15 EST
The commoner breaks into merry peals of laughter as she peruses Madame Lasher's comments.
Colleen,
I dinna state that Madame Ashleana didst in fact duel 'pon the sixth day of the tenth moon, though tis recorded so in the standings lists. I merely pointed that out. Naturally it couldna hae happened for I dinna disbelieve Madame Ashleana's comments, yet, from the standings lists one could presume she had indeed been present in Rhydin 'pon the sixth day of the tenth moon. I have pointed out to you, quite simply, the fallacy thou wouldst
perpetuate ast to the date the standings didst become public.
Thou shalt pardon mine amusement if I find thine comments beyond droll. Madame Ashleana wast given every opportunity to speak yet she continued to hold her tongue, yet thou dost nae attach anna blame to her for doing such. Thou now comes and dost blame me for holding mine?
Amusedly,
Jona.