From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 17:53:12 EST
Cletus,
Though I can nae speak for me Jeff as ta why he may think ta Magnus nae a good candidate for ta Over Lord, I can speak ta ya question. Why do ya think ta Magnus would be a good Over Lord?
That be a missing thought in this sludge. Being Over Lord is nae just about whupping everra one in sight, it also be about performing ta duties: and that me friend take much time and much putting up with people who ya rather show ta door then ya face.
Dal hae done spoiled us all, I suspect. But if ya live under ta reign of an absent Over Lord, who be more enchanted with his name on lists then with ta people who duel, then ya appreciate just what ta Dal bring with him each time he steps inta ta Arena.
Summer
And Lucian and Morgan - well put, well written.
Hipocracy
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 18:01:16 EST
"Dal's words to the community have no meaning, right Morgan?"
Dal's words to the community hold no sway in the matter of the agreement between Kal and Dal. I know this is difficult for you to grasp, but just because Dal let you in on the nature of the agreement doesn't mean you get a say in how the agreement is followed through with.
Say I agreed to let you live on my land in exchange for you paying me 3000 gold pieces a week. This made you very happy and you told everyone, "guess what, if I pay Morgan 3000 gold pieces a week, she'll let me live on her land! Yippee!" What if you lost your job and were unable to pay me the money. Do you think I should let you live there if you stop paying me the agreed upon amount? Or, what if I chose to evict you from my land, do you think
you should still pay me 3000 gold pieces simply because you told a few people that you lived on my land?
Go ahead, keep talking, Var. It is immensely enjoyable witnessing how stupid you are. Already I see a line of people forming; all of them interested in making some great deals with you.
Date: 04 Jan 1999 18:01:16 EST
"Dal's words to the community have no meaning, right Morgan?"
Dal's words to the community hold no sway in the matter of the agreement between Kal and Dal. I know this is difficult for you to grasp, but just because Dal let you in on the nature of the agreement doesn't mean you get a say in how the agreement is followed through with.
Say I agreed to let you live on my land in exchange for you paying me 3000 gold pieces a week. This made you very happy and you told everyone, "guess what, if I pay Morgan 3000 gold pieces a week, she'll let me live on her land! Yippee!" What if you lost your job and were unable to pay me the money. Do you think I should let you live there if you stop paying me the agreed upon amount? Or, what if I chose to evict you from my land, do you think
you should still pay me 3000 gold pieces simply because you told a few people that you lived on my land?
Go ahead, keep talking, Var. It is immensely enjoyable witnessing how stupid you are. Already I see a line of people forming; all of them interested in making some great deals with you.
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 18:34:59 EST
>Also, I'd like everyone ta recognize Dalamar has defend himself more dan ANY
>other Overlord in da history of DoS.
Jeff,
I was gonna stay out of this, but this quote makes me say something. I believe when I challenged, you told everyone to stop stating how I defended my ring many times. Yet, you go and do the same about Dal defending.
And, please, I don't wanna start a fight over this, just trying to point something out.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 04 Jan 1999 18:34:59 EST
>Also, I'd like everyone ta recognize Dalamar has defend himself more dan ANY
>other Overlord in da history of DoS.
Jeff,
I was gonna stay out of this, but this quote makes me say something. I believe when I challenged, you told everyone to stop stating how I defended my ring many times. Yet, you go and do the same about Dal defending.
And, please, I don't wanna start a fight over this, just trying to point something out.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 18:58:34 EST
Tom,
Hipocracy is not a word, I agree. It is *not* as far as I know "a slang term referring to hipocrite." Perhaps you're thinking of h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y, or pretending to believe or be something you aren't. Also, I believe the word you are thinking of in the final end of your statement is "hypocrite." Which is, as one could deduce, one who practices hypocrisy.
- Lucian
Date: 04 Jan 1999 18:58:34 EST
Tom,
Hipocracy is not a word, I agree. It is *not* as far as I know "a slang term referring to hipocrite." Perhaps you're thinking of h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y, or pretending to believe or be something you aren't. Also, I believe the word you are thinking of in the final end of your statement is "hypocrite." Which is, as one could deduce, one who practices hypocrisy.
- Lucian
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:19:18 EST
Magnus, it is really very simple.
It is considered gauche to "toot your own horn."
It is perfectly acceptable for others to laud your accomplishments.
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:19:18 EST
Magnus, it is really very simple.
It is considered gauche to "toot your own horn."
It is perfectly acceptable for others to laud your accomplishments.
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:27:21 EST
>>I just want him to start acting like the good dueler, and Overlord he is.<<
Tom~
All you need to do is look at his record and look under his name in the Overlord histories, not to mention just watching him on normal dueling nights. There you will see just how good of a dueler he is.
~Sid
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:27:21 EST
>>I just want him to start acting like the good dueler, and Overlord he is.<<
Tom~
All you need to do is look at his record and look under his name in the Overlord histories, not to mention just watching him on normal dueling nights. There you will see just how good of a dueler he is.
~Sid
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:37:51 EST
Hipocrisy isn't a weird either, I believe. (Online dictionary)
~Tom
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:37:51 EST
Hipocrisy isn't a weird either, I believe. (Online dictionary)
~Tom
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:40:57 EST
Let me ask you this, sid. Say I had a record of 750-0-2.. but I acted like a jerk, and hid behind intercessions. Dalamars Record is Irrelevant.
In response to: >All you need to do is look at his record and look under his name in the
>Overlord histories, not to mention just watching him on normal dueling
>nights. There you will see just how good of a dueler he is.
>
~Tom
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:40:57 EST
Let me ask you this, sid. Say I had a record of 750-0-2.. but I acted like a jerk, and hid behind intercessions. Dalamars Record is Irrelevant.
In response to: >All you need to do is look at his record and look under his name in the
>Overlord histories, not to mention just watching him on normal dueling
>nights. There you will see just how good of a dueler he is.
>
~Tom
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From: jakemheart@aol.com (JakeMHeart)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:42:09 EST
All I have to say... My only thing to right in this matter...
I don't dislike Dal nor do I like him. I think it to be wrong of him to let Jeff have that chance of beating on, Magnus. But it's the overlord's choice. He can do whatever he will. He earned that spot as over lord and he has very right to take advantage of it. Yes, yes... I am against him breaking his oath. It all offends our thoughts on "holier than thou." But he can do *whatever he wants, just about*. Can't he? Yes, he's the overlord.
Not to be again'st you or anything, Magnus. I'm totally on your side the WhOlE way. But, didn't you have a interceder? Even if Jeff interceded, didn't you get Huma (Er... :) ) to intercede? What is that? Good job, beating Jeff, I didn't even phase the man, but you broke your own thoughts or rules. Just my opinion.
The hobbler,
-------)> Jake Heart :)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:42:09 EST
All I have to say... My only thing to right in this matter...
I don't dislike Dal nor do I like him. I think it to be wrong of him to let Jeff have that chance of beating on, Magnus. But it's the overlord's choice. He can do whatever he will. He earned that spot as over lord and he has very right to take advantage of it. Yes, yes... I am against him breaking his oath. It all offends our thoughts on "holier than thou." But he can do *whatever he wants, just about*. Can't he? Yes, he's the overlord.
Not to be again'st you or anything, Magnus. I'm totally on your side the WhOlE way. But, didn't you have a interceder? Even if Jeff interceded, didn't you get Huma (Er... :) ) to intercede? What is that? Good job, beating Jeff, I didn't even phase the man, but you broke your own thoughts or rules. Just my opinion.
The hobbler,
-------)> Jake Heart :)
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:21:27 EST
>>The overlord is to be considered the best dueler in the land, I ask all of you, does the best dueler have to appoint somebody to defend himself? Yes it's his right, and due to events, he did defend himself, but the point is, he tried to avoid the duel all together. How can anyone to expect him to remain the best dueler if other people fight his battles for him?<<
I'm going to ramble a bit, and the majority of this is not directed at Huma, but at the Community as a whole.
To say the above is to ignore the fact that Magnus chose a champion as well. Are we to hold Dal to higher standards because we don't like him? I know what some will say.."but Magnus isn't the Supreme Dueler". No, he's not, but in challenging Dal, he showed that he had every intention of *being* the Supreme Dueler. What makes him have more of a right to use the rights given to him than Dalamar? Because you guys like him? Because you hate Dal?
I will confess one thing, I do not completely agree with Dal's use of the Test this time (it's a point that we do not always agree on), nor do I agree with Magnus' use of a champion. However, unlike many people in this community, I am not about to have an all-out fit about it and demand that Magnus retire his ring.
When you truly think about it, whether or not Dal broke his oath about the Test is irellevant. One, Kalamere made the oath null and void and two, Dal never *had* to make the oath in the first place. He owes nothing to you people. His job is to be the Supreme *Dueler*. His job is *not* to cowtow to every whim of each and every dueler that demands something of him. He'd go nuts if he tried to make all of you happy all of the time. It's like the saying
goes, "your damned if you do and damned if you don't". If he tries to make one group happy, another group will decry his as some devil to be dealt with. If he tries to appease the latter group, the former will call him a hypocrite and an "Oathbreaker".
Think about it. Pretend that you are the Overlord, and practically everyone wants something different from you. Test as you wish, Test when it's right, Test always, Never Test, no matter the situation. If you Interceed for your Loyals, your a bad person who just wants to keep Loyals around you. If you *don't* Interceed for your Loyals, you've abandoned them and you hate them. The list goes on and on, ad nauseum. Personally I would be insane if I said
that I envy his position.
Never (with the *possible* exception of Siera Redwin) has there been an Overlord that everyone was pleased with. Whoever takes up the mantle after Dalamar will also take up his problems as well. Think about this, the next time you feel like you should Challenge Dal for his title. When you take on the title of Overlord, sooner or later you will also take on the titles of Hypocrite, Oathbreaker and Liar.
Thank you for your time
~Sidartha Elgarette
Voice of Reason ::chuckles and draws a happy face next to the title::
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:21:27 EST
>>The overlord is to be considered the best dueler in the land, I ask all of you, does the best dueler have to appoint somebody to defend himself? Yes it's his right, and due to events, he did defend himself, but the point is, he tried to avoid the duel all together. How can anyone to expect him to remain the best dueler if other people fight his battles for him?<<
I'm going to ramble a bit, and the majority of this is not directed at Huma, but at the Community as a whole.
To say the above is to ignore the fact that Magnus chose a champion as well. Are we to hold Dal to higher standards because we don't like him? I know what some will say.."but Magnus isn't the Supreme Dueler". No, he's not, but in challenging Dal, he showed that he had every intention of *being* the Supreme Dueler. What makes him have more of a right to use the rights given to him than Dalamar? Because you guys like him? Because you hate Dal?
I will confess one thing, I do not completely agree with Dal's use of the Test this time (it's a point that we do not always agree on), nor do I agree with Magnus' use of a champion. However, unlike many people in this community, I am not about to have an all-out fit about it and demand that Magnus retire his ring.
When you truly think about it, whether or not Dal broke his oath about the Test is irellevant. One, Kalamere made the oath null and void and two, Dal never *had* to make the oath in the first place. He owes nothing to you people. His job is to be the Supreme *Dueler*. His job is *not* to cowtow to every whim of each and every dueler that demands something of him. He'd go nuts if he tried to make all of you happy all of the time. It's like the saying
goes, "your damned if you do and damned if you don't". If he tries to make one group happy, another group will decry his as some devil to be dealt with. If he tries to appease the latter group, the former will call him a hypocrite and an "Oathbreaker".
Think about it. Pretend that you are the Overlord, and practically everyone wants something different from you. Test as you wish, Test when it's right, Test always, Never Test, no matter the situation. If you Interceed for your Loyals, your a bad person who just wants to keep Loyals around you. If you *don't* Interceed for your Loyals, you've abandoned them and you hate them. The list goes on and on, ad nauseum. Personally I would be insane if I said
that I envy his position.
Never (with the *possible* exception of Siera Redwin) has there been an Overlord that everyone was pleased with. Whoever takes up the mantle after Dalamar will also take up his problems as well. Think about this, the next time you feel like you should Challenge Dal for his title. When you take on the title of Overlord, sooner or later you will also take on the titles of Hypocrite, Oathbreaker and Liar.
Thank you for your time
~Sidartha Elgarette
Voice of Reason ::chuckles and draws a happy face next to the title::
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From: idysarana@aol.com (IdySarana)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:23:15 EST
<<Dal's words to the community hold no sway in the matter of the agreement between Kal and Dal. I know this is difficult for you to grasp, but just because Dal let you in on the nature of the agreement doesn't mean you get a say in how the agreement is followed through with.>>
This argument would hold a lot more weight, if Dal had actually stated that his policy change was nothing more than an agreement with one single person. Since he did not make any such public statement, but he did make public his change of policy ... it shows Dal, himself to be a man who's word is not worth the paper it is written upon.
<<Say I agreed to let you live on my land in exchange for you paying me 3000 gold pieces a week. This made you very happy and you told everyone, "guess what, if I pay Morgan 3000 gold pieces a week, she'll let me live on her land! Yippee!" What if you lost your job and were unable to pay me the money. Do you think I should let you live there if you stop paying me the agreed upon amount? Or, what if I
chose to evict you from my land, do you think
you should still pay me 3000 gold pieces simply because you told a few people that you lived on my land?>>
Again, this is a very strong example of a point you are trying to make...unfortunately it is not exactly an example of the events that have occurred. Dal did not run about claiming to have made an agreement with one person. Instead, he led the public to believe that he had simply opted to, as is his right, change his policy on testing Baron's.
<<Go ahead, keep talking, Var. It is immensely enjoyable witnessing how stupid you are.>>
As stupid as you may think Var has been in his posts, is it really necessary to stoop to such a level as making that a closing statement on your otherwise well written post?
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:23:15 EST
<<Dal's words to the community hold no sway in the matter of the agreement between Kal and Dal. I know this is difficult for you to grasp, but just because Dal let you in on the nature of the agreement doesn't mean you get a say in how the agreement is followed through with.>>
This argument would hold a lot more weight, if Dal had actually stated that his policy change was nothing more than an agreement with one single person. Since he did not make any such public statement, but he did make public his change of policy ... it shows Dal, himself to be a man who's word is not worth the paper it is written upon.
<<Say I agreed to let you live on my land in exchange for you paying me 3000 gold pieces a week. This made you very happy and you told everyone, "guess what, if I pay Morgan 3000 gold pieces a week, she'll let me live on her land! Yippee!" What if you lost your job and were unable to pay me the money. Do you think I should let you live there if you stop paying me the agreed upon amount? Or, what if I
chose to evict you from my land, do you think
you should still pay me 3000 gold pieces simply because you told a few people that you lived on my land?>>
Again, this is a very strong example of a point you are trying to make...unfortunately it is not exactly an example of the events that have occurred. Dal did not run about claiming to have made an agreement with one person. Instead, he led the public to believe that he had simply opted to, as is his right, change his policy on testing Baron's.
<<Go ahead, keep talking, Var. It is immensely enjoyable witnessing how stupid you are.>>
As stupid as you may think Var has been in his posts, is it really necessary to stoop to such a level as making that a closing statement on your otherwise well written post?
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From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:32:24 EST
::decides that "final end of" is redundant and repetetive, so goes back and erases the word "final" from his post::
Date: 04 Jan 1999 19:32:24 EST
::decides that "final end of" is redundant and repetetive, so goes back and erases the word "final" from his post::
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From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 20:20:21 EST
"It is considered gauche to "toot your own horn. "
Morgan,
Magnus's post read:
"you told everyone to stop stating how I defended my ring many times."
Not, "You told me to stop stating how many times I defended my ring."
So, his post intended to say he wasn't tooting his own horn, other people were, and that's what Jeff objected to.
I think.
Zen Rising
Date: 04 Jan 1999 20:20:21 EST
"It is considered gauche to "toot your own horn. "
Morgan,
Magnus's post read:
"you told everyone to stop stating how I defended my ring many times."
Not, "You told me to stop stating how many times I defended my ring."
So, his post intended to say he wasn't tooting his own horn, other people were, and that's what Jeff objected to.
I think.
Zen Rising
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 20:02:13 EST
Morgan,
I know it is, but Jeff told people to stop saying that about me, yet he says the same about Dal. That is what I was asking about, and I believe only Jeff would be able to answer this question.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 04 Jan 1999 20:02:13 EST
Morgan,
I know it is, but Jeff told people to stop saying that about me, yet he says the same about Dal. That is what I was asking about, and I believe only Jeff would be able to answer this question.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 20:06:32 EST
<<.. you CAN change your mind, but he never really publicly gave a reason.>>
'e doesn't really 'ave to..wotever he does to retain his title is his business or actually, his right, however, you can just as easily see it as any "official agreements" or actions are public business, since it is a public title. Forever we will debate, nothing will come to a conclusion...personally, I believe no one can truly judge an action by Dalamar to be "unjust" until you've seen it from the point of view from one attempting to retain such a
title, kind of putting your feet in his shoes or wo'tever, though, you can raise a proper well thought argument.
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.
Date: 04 Jan 1999 20:06:32 EST
<<.. you CAN change your mind, but he never really publicly gave a reason.>>
'e doesn't really 'ave to..wotever he does to retain his title is his business or actually, his right, however, you can just as easily see it as any "official agreements" or actions are public business, since it is a public title. Forever we will debate, nothing will come to a conclusion...personally, I believe no one can truly judge an action by Dalamar to be "unjust" until you've seen it from the point of view from one attempting to retain such a
title, kind of putting your feet in his shoes or wo'tever, though, you can raise a proper well thought argument.
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.