Formal Acceptance of Demand for Challenge

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 16:16:51 EST

Jeffrey,

If memory serves, Leto was challenging the Lady Alais d Nitesong Sidhe ast a Baron, nae ast the result of a warlord tourney. Had thee pressed thine challenge, thine challenge would hae indeed taken precedence o'er the challenge made unto Alais by Leto.

Jona

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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 16:52:59 EST

Jonalyn, it is my thinking that there must be an Overlord in order to have a viable prize.

Perhaps a Baron Tourney could determine who the new Overlord will be for the prizeholder to redeem his right of challenge.

Or perhaps a challenge to the senior baron/volunteer baron could be offered instead.

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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 17:42:49 EST

Lord Medici:

As is so often the case, your facts are incorrect.

THE OVERLORD HAD NOTIFIED THE COUNCIL BEFORE BARON UZIEL EVER POSTED HIS MESSAGE STATING SUCH HERE.

The entire line of argument stating that Adonai is "getting by on a technicality" is specious, slanderous, and little more than gossip. Eros made a public proclamation in front of over thirty witnesses, then set that proclamation in writing to the council before Adonai ever touched pen to paper, and those of you spreading information to the contrary owe apologies.

Ian Rex.

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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:17:47 EST

>Lord Medici:
>
>As is so often the case, your facts are incorrect.
>
Do I get a prize for being consistent?

>THE OVERLORD HAD NOTIFIED THE COUNCIL BEFORE BARON UZIEL EVER POSTED HIS
>MESSAGE STATING SUCH HERE.
>

I recall reading Adonai's notification that his alignment is changed, before I turned it over and saw Eros'. Let's see what the very first post is in this pile of papers?

"Patrons,


In a fit of frustrated anger last night, Lord Eros made the intention of realigning my Barony known to the public in scorn to me for my laughing at the antics and insults passed from William Ray Karnafexx to him and his wife.
All three are friends, or were. And I have always found William to be highly humorous....no matter his bent or tone.
While the insulting of ladies is not something I often take lightly. William is well known to dish it out to those he likes....as well as dislikes. This is something that those of us that know him well enough know. So I found the situation humorous to say the least.
I will not take such insult to my support of his reign lightly.
From this day forth, until such time as Lord Eros has passed the crown of this sport to another. The Seventh is now aligned Renegade. As he would realign my Barony....so it shall be.
And should Lord Ero's best the winner of this Warlords Tourney and retain his crown. Let it be known that I will, twenty four days after this Tourney is done, press challenge to him for his crown in a duel of honor to recompense my public humiliation."

The standings keeper later wrote:
Lords and Ladies.

To save the Supervisor much grief on this matter, and acting according the the rules as written, I propose the following.
As far as I have been able to determine, no Warlord is re-instated until a letter is sent to the Standing's Keeper and the change is noted in the Standings.
In addition, every other instance indicates that a letter to the Standing's Keeper is required before a matter is official... to wit, "4. Loyal Barons may change their alignment at anytime, in writing, to all Barons, the Overlord and the Standings Keeper."
As Baron Uziel did not send me a letter indicating his change of alignment, and as the Overlord did send me a letter indicating his re-aligning of the Baron, it appears that the matter of the alignment of the Seventh Ring should be closed... the Baron has the right to immediate challenge.
On the question of the word "immediate." I agree that Baron Uziel's challenge holds precedent over the challenge right gained by the winner of the Warlord's Tournament. The simple reasoning of this is that the challenge of the winner does not exist until a winner is declared. And, as Baron Jeff has pointed out, it is no longer prior to the Tournament.
Should Lord Evermeadow wish to overturn my decision on this matter, I will willingly bow to his expertese in these matters.
The only reason I am getting involved at all is that the Rules of Engagement mention the Standing's Keeper multiple times, and I felt I was required to answer.

From what I read, it sounds like Adonai did notify the council. If he didn't, then I stand corrected.

>The entire line of argument stating that Adonai is "getting by on a
>technicality" is specious, slanderous, and little more than gossip. Eros
>made a public proclamation in front of over thirty witnesses

What a pity. Only seems official wordings are letters to the council and to the standings keeper. If you were around during my second reign as a baron, you would see that Drake posted an intent to challenge on the boards. That's far more than thirty people. Like I said, if Adonai didn't notify the supervisor and council, then I'll accept the correction. When I read otherwise, though, then I shall state otherwise. If someone else wrote it
already and I missed it, then I'll admit that I missed it.

It is, of course, why I was so angry at the decision based on Huma's second overlord challenge. He changed his mind when he made a promise, but he had the right to challenge for overlord taken away because of something he said in a room. There are no rules that restrict you to what you say, it's what you write.

>, then set that
>proclamation in writing to the council before Adonai ever touched pen to
>paper, and those of you spreading information to the contrary owe apologies.

Did he not use a pen or something, Ian? Maybe he cut his finger and wrote the very first letter of this pile with blood?

I will continue saying Adonai "got by on a technicality" until someone from the council states otherwise. I will admit I missed it if it was already said.


Var Medici-Giovanni

±

|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|

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From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:31:12 EST

> I will continue saying Adonai "got by on a technicality" until someone
>from the council states otherwise. I will admit I missed it if it was
>already said.

Adonai did not get by on a technicality.

Happy now Var? The descion was made by Lord Golden. Let it go.

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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:33:43 EST

Var,

Marzan sent his letter in ta da Officials, Overlord, and Baronial council statin' his desire ta realign Adonai. Perhaps ya read da messages on da board in da wrong order, fer Marzan did certainly make da first move.


~J

[DoS Archive]

From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:55:11 EST

>Adonai did not get by on a technicality.
>
>Happy now Var? The descion was made by Lord Golden. Let it go.

Actually, I was looking more on the lines of what Jeff said, Gimm. He at least said why Adonai didn't get by on a technicality, but I could swear that Adonai's first missive is on the top of this pile. How I read them in the wrong order, I don't know, but I'll accept the fact it was said.
Why do I prefer hearing from the council? Because they have been receiving the letters, and are more knowledgable with the situation.
In regards to letting it go, I did state my opinion and someone chose to say "As usual your facts are incorrect, because..." Basically, if there is a discrepancy in facts, I will maintain an opinion and will still have a certain opinion when the facts are cleared.
I will of course respect Golden's decision, but I do have a right to agree and disagree. If the council, the people who have received the information, says that Adonai did not send a letter before Eros, then that's fine. I admit then I must have read it wrong.
Either way, I'd still like to see Eric have priority, but I guess he won't. Those are my two gold pieces.
Simply,

Var Medici-Giovanni

±

|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|

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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:57:14 EST

Lord Medici:

Though Baron Stonecutter has already answered the burning question that keeps you from thinking logically, I feel the need to instruct you on basic concepts.

In which order YOU read Adonai's public statement and the Overlord's public statement is completely irrelevant. I was present with Adonai - BEFORE he posted his statement for the public - when he did receive, via messenger, the Overlord's official communication of his realignment.

Does this register with you now? Surely you are not so dense as to think the Overlord necessarily had to have sent his message to the council and IMMEDIATELY posted same to the cork?

"Did he not use a pen or something, Ian? Maybe he cut his finger and wrote the very first letter of this pile with blood?."

Are you doltish enough that you do not grasp the language? I did not say he never wrote a message. I said he had not touched pen to paper UNTIL the Overlord had sent his proclamation, in writing, TO THE COUNCIL.

This cork, lad, is not the Council. You would do well to understand this, and save yourself embarrassment.

Ian Rex.

[DoS Archive]

From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 22:00:24 EST

One final point, in case I still haven't made it clear:

"If the council, the people who have received the information, says that Adonai did not send a letter before Eros, then that's fine. I admit then I must have read it wrong."

The point I was getting at, which you are attempting to completely dodge, is that not ONLY did Eros send his letter before Adonai, but that Eros sent his letter before Adonai POSTED. It is WHY Adonai posted, and that is why I am so offended at the suggestion that Adonai somehow pushed Eros into the realignment by making the post.

Ian Rex.

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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 22:13:39 EST

One further point of information.

One of the persons who witnessed the Overlord state that he would align Baron Uziel to Renegade was, in fact, the Standing's Keeper.

Also, regarding my Letter of Intent to Challenge Var, I sent copies of that post to the Council, the Supervisor and the Standing's Keeper... thus to insure it would be an official Notice of Intent.
And yes, I know well enough that a Notice of Intent is not binding in any way... but to me, it is.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 22:50:24 EST

>In which order YOU read Adonai's public statement and the Overlord's public
>statement is completely irrelevant. I was present with Adonai - BEFORE he
>posted his statement for the public - when he did receive, via messenger, the
>Overlord's official communication of his realignment.

You were there? Good for you. I wasn't, so I can only make assumptions from what I read. And the order in which I read them is relevant to me. It's the only way I can sequence the facts when I was not there. From what I read, Adonai did not say he received a letter from Eros. If Eros was, indeed, the first one to write the letter, I would assume Adonai would write such in the first post. I assumed the first post I read was sent to the
council. When I was told from someone receiving every letter otherwise (aka, the council), then I accepted the correction.

>Does this register with you now? Surely you are not so dense as to think the
>Overlord necessarily had to have sent his message to the council and
>IMMEDIATELY posted same to the cork?

Actually, yes, Eros should have, and apparently has, informed the council before Adonai (which I assume Adonai did because of the first post), though the posting is optional. Like I said, I know what I read, and with the discrepancy of facts, I preferred hearing from a party directly involved that it was Eros who sent it first. You want to puff your chest out and say you were there, then puff your chest out and say you were there. You only said
that Eros told him face to face, you didn't say that there was a letter.

>Are you doltish enough that you do not grasp the language? I did not say he
>never wrote a message. I said he had not touched pen to paper UNTIL the
>Overlord had sent his proclamation, in writing, TO THE COUNCIL.
>
>This cork, lad, is not the Council. You would do well to understand this,
>and save yourself embarrassment.

I grasp the language quite well. You said Eros sent the message before Adonai put pen to paper. I had to guess then that he wrote the message in some other way. Like I said, I accept the correction from Jeff.
I agree the corks aren't the council. You said Eros told Adonai face to face, which is not a binding realignment.
I highlight some words you wrote, which are written over there ------>

::The arrow points to the pile of papers regarding "Realignment of the Seventh"::

"Lady Starfare:

Over thirty people did witness Marzan take this action against Baron Uziel verbally, face-to-face, well before either party did post in this matter.

If it is ruled that Adonai has changed his alignment voluntarily, I will personally protest the decision, and I won't shut up about it until I'm dead.

Ian Rex."
I darkened, underlined, and even slanted the three words that leads me to my logic of thinking (see below).
That lead to my logic of thinking, which is:
1) Eros told Adonai face to face
2) Adonai notified the council of alignment change
3) Eros notified council of realignment
4) Adonai changed his mind and chose to challenge
5) Blah blah
6) You stupid [censored]
7) Blah blah
8) Haha, hoho, heehee

I did not read anywhere prior stating Eros wrote to Adonai first. I assumed it was Adonai. If you can't accept the fact that there was a misinterpretation based on posts, then that's too bad, because I've outlined what I've read and the order.
Of course, I feel no embarassment when it's a misunderstanding. If I had my head high in the clouds as you seem to, maybe there would be reasonable embarassment. When it is a misunderstanding, why be embarassed?
Simply,

Var Medici-Giovanni

±

|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|

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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 25 Feb 1999 23:30:59 EST

To save further problems.

What letters the Council received are irrelivant, unless those letters are also sent to the Standing's Keeper.
"8. Can, at anytime, switch the alignment of a Baron with reason given in writing to all Barons and to the Standings Keeper provided a WoL record of 15 is maintained."
"4. Loyal Barons may change their alignment at anytime, in writing, to all Barons, the Overlord and the Standings Keeper."
Adonai was free to tell everyone in the universe that he was going to be a Renegade. Until the Standing's Keeper was told in writing, it did not matter and was not official.
The fact of the matter is that Eros notified the Council and the Standing's Keeper, Adonai only notified the Council. When he chose to issue challenge, -that- is when he notified the Standing's Keeper.

I am placing this here because sometimes people are too busy insulting each other to speak logically and clearly... meaning no offence to any party involved.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 26 Feb 1999 00:27:14 EST

Ian, Var, Gentles

To put the chronology in proper order, t'was that, in the basement, during the second eve of the Warlord's Tourney, Eros didst declare Uziel to be renegade, the circumstances of the altercation were indeed witnessed by those present, whereupon Uziel didst place a missive 'pon the cork, the first one. Tis then that Eros didst apprise the officials followed shortly thereafter by Uzie Poo's issurance of challenge.

I do trust that settles that matter.

Jonalyn Starfare

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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 26 Feb 1999 00:47:34 EST

Lord Medici:

My sincere apologies. After noting Lady Starfare's comment, and checking sources, I find I was incorrect... by about a quarter-hour. The Baron did indeed post prior to receiving the official notification; I assumed the message was such.

Ian Rex.

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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 26 Feb 1999 02:34:46 EST

Ian,
To be honest, I found some words harsh, but I know I say them occasionally, but not without reason. No apology is necessary, for it was a major confusion regarding the order of the events.
Your apology is appreciated, Lord MacKenzie, but none is necessary.

Var Medici-Giovanni

±

|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|