From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 28 Feb 1999 22:07:12 EST
Marshall Moonwalker.
As you were not there, you must be careful on what you comment. According to eye witnesses, Lord Eros did call Billy Ray to task for his insults, and received only more insults.
He did not call Baron Uziel to task for laughing, but for refusing to offer an apology to Lady Topaz for said laughter.
According to the faithfully recorded conversations I have reveiwed, Baron Uziel was not called to task for finding Billy Ray's comments funny... he was called to task for refusing to say something so simple as, "I'm sorry, it was the comments I found funny, not the target of those comments."
I hope that makes things clearer to you all.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Honor, Unsatisfied.
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From: lorduziel@aol.com (Lord Uziel)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 05:36:22 EST
Drake,
M'lady, and friend of many years now ,I must correct you in one area here and one alone.
Lady Eludes and I have no issue or misunderstanding between us. Her and I have had a respectful friendship for as long as you and I have now. And she, unlike her firebrand husband, has thicker skin and knew I wasn't laughing -directly- at her. Apology to Lady Eludes is an issue that Marzan believes is the problem.....when essentially...there never was an issue to start with. Unless....of course, I stand -grossly- misinformed.
I respect your opinion m'lady, and do not seek to discredit or malign you at all. But this was something I thought that would need clarification.
Mayhaps taking this further is beyond honor, I am still undecided in my course. I stand in the valley between action and acceptance. Either is within my means as a noble and duelist of this realm. I shall of course work this out on my own. Your opinions, while appreciated, of course do not override my own. And when I have made a decision......to reach for the crown again to set things right, or to accept my alignment as a Renegade to the
Crown and work within its realm of influence, I will of course be sure to let the public know.
For all. Many conclusions were drawn from my posting. As conclusions usually are. I am the only one that knows my mind, and I am undecided. Do not immediately run for dry wood and torches merely because I feel keeping the public informed is a titleholders responsibility.
Respectfully,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of Rhydin
~Twice Baron of the Seventh
Date: 01 Mar 1999 05:36:22 EST
Drake,
M'lady, and friend of many years now ,I must correct you in one area here and one alone.
Lady Eludes and I have no issue or misunderstanding between us. Her and I have had a respectful friendship for as long as you and I have now. And she, unlike her firebrand husband, has thicker skin and knew I wasn't laughing -directly- at her. Apology to Lady Eludes is an issue that Marzan believes is the problem.....when essentially...there never was an issue to start with. Unless....of course, I stand -grossly- misinformed.
I respect your opinion m'lady, and do not seek to discredit or malign you at all. But this was something I thought that would need clarification.
Mayhaps taking this further is beyond honor, I am still undecided in my course. I stand in the valley between action and acceptance. Either is within my means as a noble and duelist of this realm. I shall of course work this out on my own. Your opinions, while appreciated, of course do not override my own. And when I have made a decision......to reach for the crown again to set things right, or to accept my alignment as a Renegade to the
Crown and work within its realm of influence, I will of course be sure to let the public know.
For all. Many conclusions were drawn from my posting. As conclusions usually are. I am the only one that knows my mind, and I am undecided. Do not immediately run for dry wood and torches merely because I feel keeping the public informed is a titleholders responsibility.
Respectfully,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of Rhydin
~Twice Baron of the Seventh
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From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 09:19:17 EST
Honour is a strange thing. One of us can act as he feels is completely honourable and find that the public disagrees with him, calling him dishonourable. I am minded of something that was placed here on the cork long ago by Melanie Polanski on the subject. She quoted something from a dictionary from her home. I can't remember all of what she said, but the jist of it was that a man's honour is his own.
He does what he feels is right, and sticks to it as long as he believes it to be the right thing. Shown that he was in err, if he believes it, he changes. He grows as a person.... hopefully for the better. There is no dishonour in that change, only in refusing it if his beliefs have changed.
I wish to, at this time, offer an apology to Eros. I forgot this lesson and implied to all that because he didn't do something as I feel he should have, I found him dishonorable. My way of doing things in this situation, had I been in Eros's position, would have been different. That does not mean that he acted without honor. He believes in what he did, and why. I can not find fault in that. I do, however, still disagree with it, but I should
not have made the implication. I apologize for that.... to Eros, to Topaz and to all of DoS. Apologies.
Khrys
Date: 01 Mar 1999 09:19:17 EST
Honour is a strange thing. One of us can act as he feels is completely honourable and find that the public disagrees with him, calling him dishonourable. I am minded of something that was placed here on the cork long ago by Melanie Polanski on the subject. She quoted something from a dictionary from her home. I can't remember all of what she said, but the jist of it was that a man's honour is his own.
He does what he feels is right, and sticks to it as long as he believes it to be the right thing. Shown that he was in err, if he believes it, he changes. He grows as a person.... hopefully for the better. There is no dishonour in that change, only in refusing it if his beliefs have changed.
I wish to, at this time, offer an apology to Eros. I forgot this lesson and implied to all that because he didn't do something as I feel he should have, I found him dishonorable. My way of doing things in this situation, had I been in Eros's position, would have been different. That does not mean that he acted without honor. He believes in what he did, and why. I can not find fault in that. I do, however, still disagree with it, but I should
not have made the implication. I apologize for that.... to Eros, to Topaz and to all of DoS. Apologies.
Khrys
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From: alyxz@aol.com (Alyxz)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 10:15:41 EST
This makes me wonder what some people would have Eros do.
It would be an interesting train of thought:
'Some cocksure braggart is insulting my wife. I suppose I should let it slide. Wouldn't be fitting for the overlord to be goaded into a fight.'
'..but one of my friends is laughing at her too..I guess he's not really my friend. Lets say it openly: "You don't seem to be my friend.'
'Maybe I was rash to do that. I should apologize.'
'Rash or not, my friend just challenged me, regardless of my apology. Now, after besting him in the ring, he states that he still openly oposes me...maybe he really is my friend after all?'
Sorry. Eros would have to be king idiot to think Adonai should be loyal now. I'd have to be king idiot to think there's no reason for him to be made renegade whether he wants it or not.
Date: 01 Mar 1999 10:15:41 EST
This makes me wonder what some people would have Eros do.
It would be an interesting train of thought:
'Some cocksure braggart is insulting my wife. I suppose I should let it slide. Wouldn't be fitting for the overlord to be goaded into a fight.'
'..but one of my friends is laughing at her too..I guess he's not really my friend. Lets say it openly: "You don't seem to be my friend.'
'Maybe I was rash to do that. I should apologize.'
'Rash or not, my friend just challenged me, regardless of my apology. Now, after besting him in the ring, he states that he still openly oposes me...maybe he really is my friend after all?'
Sorry. Eros would have to be king idiot to think Adonai should be loyal now. I'd have to be king idiot to think there's no reason for him to be made renegade whether he wants it or not.
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 15:32:19 EST
You have a good point, whoever wrote about what Eros was expected to do, but some people wait until after they take what they want to try to patch a friendship. It's like saying, "You're the best friend I'll ever have," after they pummel you down to unconsciousness to satisfy some sadistic desire they possess. Not that I'm saying Adonai's like this, but it sounds to me like he won't be happy until he has the crown. Oh well, I
guess only time will tell.
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 01 Mar 1999 15:32:19 EST
You have a good point, whoever wrote about what Eros was expected to do, but some people wait until after they take what they want to try to patch a friendship. It's like saying, "You're the best friend I'll ever have," after they pummel you down to unconsciousness to satisfy some sadistic desire they possess. Not that I'm saying Adonai's like this, but it sounds to me like he won't be happy until he has the crown. Oh well, I
guess only time will tell.
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: keirinelf@aol.com (KeirinElf)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 17:20:36 EST
M'Lords and Ladies,
It seems that I expressed an unfounded opinion. I apologize openly and publically for forming and expressing an opinion prior to gathering all of the facts.
I still have not gathered all of the facts, but until and unless Baron Uziel wishes to express his side of the events to me, I shall have to go with what I was recently informed by the Lady DeBurgo.
While my opinion that the matter could have been handled better by all concerned remains unchanged, I must agree with Lady Wûlfgar once more. Lord DeBurgo did nothing dishonorable, so long as what he did he felt was the correct action at the time.
I have spoken with Lord and Lady DeBurgo and have expressed my regret that my earlier writing caused them to be upset with me. I believe that we have once more the friendship which I have treasured since meeting both of them.
Simply put, I apologize for the poor phrasing of my earlier opinion, and shall endeavor to express myself better in the future. Or simply refrain from posting to this cork.
Keirin Moonwalker
Commoner of Swords
Co-Captain, Team Atrebla
Grand Marshall
Guardians of Truth
Date: 01 Mar 1999 17:20:36 EST
M'Lords and Ladies,
It seems that I expressed an unfounded opinion. I apologize openly and publically for forming and expressing an opinion prior to gathering all of the facts.
I still have not gathered all of the facts, but until and unless Baron Uziel wishes to express his side of the events to me, I shall have to go with what I was recently informed by the Lady DeBurgo.
While my opinion that the matter could have been handled better by all concerned remains unchanged, I must agree with Lady Wûlfgar once more. Lord DeBurgo did nothing dishonorable, so long as what he did he felt was the correct action at the time.
I have spoken with Lord and Lady DeBurgo and have expressed my regret that my earlier writing caused them to be upset with me. I believe that we have once more the friendship which I have treasured since meeting both of them.
Simply put, I apologize for the poor phrasing of my earlier opinion, and shall endeavor to express myself better in the future. Or simply refrain from posting to this cork.
Keirin Moonwalker
Commoner of Swords
Co-Captain, Team Atrebla
Grand Marshall
Guardians of Truth
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From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 18:19:01 EST
::Steps to the board with quick, sure steps::
After reading my personal missives, I must say that I find it surprising how many have misunderstood both my words, and my intent in my apology. I have read everything from gratitude for a change of heart, to those who think that I'm *caving in*. Allow me to set the record straight, here and now.
M apology to Eros was for one thing, and one thing only.... I have not the right to judge another's honour by my own. A man's honour is his own. It is both his source of strength when he feels in the right, and his own harshest judge when he's done what he knows to be wrong. I have no place stepping into that, other than to stand by my convictions as well. If the two clash, so be it. Neither should change soley for the sake of the other. While
I have not had the opportunity to speak at length with Eros due to our conflicting schedules, we have written to each other regarding this. Also, I have spoken at great length with Topaz. I have made my thoughts clear to each of them. As I stated earlier, I disagree with Eros's behaviour, and by MY sense of honour what he did was wrong. As for what I would have him do.... I would have him do nothing if HE feels it dishonourable. As for what I
would have done.... Eros and I have discussed it. He knows my thoughts on the matter.
Khrys
Date: 01 Mar 1999 18:19:01 EST
::Steps to the board with quick, sure steps::
After reading my personal missives, I must say that I find it surprising how many have misunderstood both my words, and my intent in my apology. I have read everything from gratitude for a change of heart, to those who think that I'm *caving in*. Allow me to set the record straight, here and now.
M apology to Eros was for one thing, and one thing only.... I have not the right to judge another's honour by my own. A man's honour is his own. It is both his source of strength when he feels in the right, and his own harshest judge when he's done what he knows to be wrong. I have no place stepping into that, other than to stand by my convictions as well. If the two clash, so be it. Neither should change soley for the sake of the other. While
I have not had the opportunity to speak at length with Eros due to our conflicting schedules, we have written to each other regarding this. Also, I have spoken at great length with Topaz. I have made my thoughts clear to each of them. As I stated earlier, I disagree with Eros's behaviour, and by MY sense of honour what he did was wrong. As for what I would have him do.... I would have him do nothing if HE feels it dishonourable. As for what I
would have done.... Eros and I have discussed it. He knows my thoughts on the matter.
Khrys
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From: marzan@aol.com (Marzan)
Date: 01 Mar 1999 23:26:10 EST
~~~
~~Any Baron may petition the Overlord for Loyal status at any time.~~
~~~Blessings of Twilight~~~
Eros
Date: 01 Mar 1999 23:26:10 EST
~~~
~~Any Baron may petition the Overlord for Loyal status at any time.~~
~~~Blessings of Twilight~~~
Eros
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From: karnafexx@aol.com (Karnafexx)
Date: 02 Mar 1999 00:00:17 EST
Eros tried to take me to task?!
I dunno what that is but it sounds too kinky fer my blood.
Date: 02 Mar 1999 00:00:17 EST
Eros tried to take me to task?!
I dunno what that is but it sounds too kinky fer my blood.
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From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 02 Mar 1999 11:03:44 EST
Eros~~~
In doing this, you have done all you can do to rectify a bad situation. You can do no more. You've extended a sincere offer, not only to Adonai, but to all, which is the most you can do.
It takes a truly wise man to see the error in something he has done, and a truly strong man to try to correct it. You've shown to the community as a whole that you're not afraid to learn from a mistake and become a better man for it. Regardless of what anyone says or does, no one can take that away from you.
I think, my friend, that with this you have already made yourself into one of the best Overlords we could have.
Khrys
Date: 02 Mar 1999 11:03:44 EST
Eros~~~
In doing this, you have done all you can do to rectify a bad situation. You can do no more. You've extended a sincere offer, not only to Adonai, but to all, which is the most you can do.
It takes a truly wise man to see the error in something he has done, and a truly strong man to try to correct it. You've shown to the community as a whole that you're not afraid to learn from a mistake and become a better man for it. Regardless of what anyone says or does, no one can take that away from you.
I think, my friend, that with this you have already made yourself into one of the best Overlords we could have.
Khrys
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From: khrystawlf@aol.com (KhrystaWlf)
Date: 04 Mar 1999 09:37:01 EST
Actually, Jona, the true question in this issue was whether one man's sense of Honour is reliant upon another man's behaviour. Eros, in extending invitation to all Renegade Barons, has shown us that is not the case. I think it is a lesson we can all learn from.....
Khrys
Date: 04 Mar 1999 09:37:01 EST
Actually, Jona, the true question in this issue was whether one man's sense of Honour is reliant upon another man's behaviour. Eros, in extending invitation to all Renegade Barons, has shown us that is not the case. I think it is a lesson we can all learn from.....
Khrys