From: simini@aol.com (Simini)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 13:52:08 EDT
After finishing reading the stack of Council letters, Simini went to the cork. As expected, there were quite a few comments regarding the latest hot situation.
Reading, she "Hmmm..."d here and there, then quickly penned a few random thoughts.
1) I would ask Aspen why he chose to Challenge just before he would be unavailable from the rings for an extended period of time?
2) I was not aware that a match had to be in progress before a Second would be allowed to duel during a Challenge. It was my understanding that a Second was to serve if for any reason the scheduled duelist could not perform - although since the Universal Terms of Challenge do not even mention Seconds, I have always privately wondered how a Second's performance would actually be regarded.
In any case, this issue is something that obviously we do not "all know," and I would ask that the Staff take this into consideration at the next appropriate time.
~ Simini
Regarding the 8th Ring. A letter to the Council
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 14:21:42 EDT
>>2) I was not aware that a match had to be in progress before a Second would be allowed to duel during a Challenge. It was my understanding that a Second was to serve if for any reason the scheduled duelist could not perform - although since the Universal Terms of Challenge do not even mention Seconds, I have always privately wondered how a Second's performance would actually be regarded.<<
No, the rules do not mention seconds. The only rulings we have on the matter are precedents. What would be called in many countries, "Common Law". This being the unwritten laws formed by previous decisions regarding matters outside the written law.
The current "Common Law" on the subject is that the second *may* finish a duel his principle started should the principle be prevented from dueling by circumstance or an outside agency. A second has not, to this date, been allowed to duel should his principle not appear. The times this has been requested, the second has not taken been allowed to enter the ring with his principle;s opponent.
The matter of seconds *is* something, you are correct, that should possibly be taken up in discussion by the lawmakers. "Common Law" is all well and good, but written law is clearer and easier to understand.
Percy
Date: 19 Aug 1999 14:21:42 EDT
>>2) I was not aware that a match had to be in progress before a Second would be allowed to duel during a Challenge. It was my understanding that a Second was to serve if for any reason the scheduled duelist could not perform - although since the Universal Terms of Challenge do not even mention Seconds, I have always privately wondered how a Second's performance would actually be regarded.<<
No, the rules do not mention seconds. The only rulings we have on the matter are precedents. What would be called in many countries, "Common Law". This being the unwritten laws formed by previous decisions regarding matters outside the written law.
The current "Common Law" on the subject is that the second *may* finish a duel his principle started should the principle be prevented from dueling by circumstance or an outside agency. A second has not, to this date, been allowed to duel should his principle not appear. The times this has been requested, the second has not taken been allowed to enter the ring with his principle;s opponent.
The matter of seconds *is* something, you are correct, that should possibly be taken up in discussion by the lawmakers. "Common Law" is all well and good, but written law is clearer and easier to understand.
Percy
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 19:31:13 EDT
Taylara,
If you gonna list all this out list it all...
Aspen did not have time to duel the challenge match after the scheduled time frame, but he had time to duel and unofficial duel afterwards to prove he could take the ring....if he had time to do that why did he not just duel the challenge....pretty pethetic also...he should have dueled when he had the chance and not wasted the councils time with this garbage.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
Date: 19 Aug 1999 19:31:13 EDT
Taylara,
If you gonna list all this out list it all...
Aspen did not have time to duel the challenge match after the scheduled time frame, but he had time to duel and unofficial duel afterwards to prove he could take the ring....if he had time to do that why did he not just duel the challenge....pretty pethetic also...he should have dueled when he had the chance and not wasted the councils time with this garbage.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 20:05:37 EDT
Folks,
From everything I have seen so far, there is one thing that just leaps out at me. Methous had no business wearing the ring in the first place, and Aspen had no business challenging for it in the second. I don't think either one of them deserves it. The whole challenge has been a disgusting farcical facade from start to finish. I find the whole series of events disturbing in the extreme.
On the one hand, we have a Baron who sends a cancellation at the last possible minute only to be seen dueling officially a bit later when he thereupon offers to fight the challenge then and there. This same Baron also destroys or attempts to destroy his ring. He behaves like a child and then proceeds to blame his challenger and his challenger's second for the whole mess.
On the other hand we have a challenger who when the cancellation is sent and is asked if he can reschedule, waits awhile and then demands that his opponent be considered in forfeit. Whether this advice was given by his second or not is immaterial. He had the letter in his possession, he knew the situation, he made his decision. For anyone to blame it on the advice he was given is ridiculous. That doesn't make the advice any better, but the
responsibility for the decision still rests with the one who made it. This same challenger then announces that he will be leaving the realm for a period of weeks.
The whole situation strikes me as a terrible mess from start to finish. Both Baron and challenger made numerous immature, selfish, and just plain stupid decisions. Each wishes all the blame to be laid with his opponent. If the situation that resulted from their blunders and childish behavior were not so frightening, I would find the whole mess laughable.
If either one of these people ends up in possession of the ring when this is all over, I hope someone takes it from them. If no one tries or succeeds, I would try myself when I had the peer wins. Both parties should seriously reflect on their own errors in this matter and their seconds should ask themselves why they involved themselves in the first place. It isn't like no one knew the foibles of the principles in this challenge. I don't think anyone
can plead ignorance. Nor do I think anyone can really defend either principle very seriously or sincerely for very long.
What was everyone thinking?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Captain, Rising Stars
Duelist
Date: 19 Aug 1999 20:05:37 EDT
Folks,
From everything I have seen so far, there is one thing that just leaps out at me. Methous had no business wearing the ring in the first place, and Aspen had no business challenging for it in the second. I don't think either one of them deserves it. The whole challenge has been a disgusting farcical facade from start to finish. I find the whole series of events disturbing in the extreme.
On the one hand, we have a Baron who sends a cancellation at the last possible minute only to be seen dueling officially a bit later when he thereupon offers to fight the challenge then and there. This same Baron also destroys or attempts to destroy his ring. He behaves like a child and then proceeds to blame his challenger and his challenger's second for the whole mess.
On the other hand we have a challenger who when the cancellation is sent and is asked if he can reschedule, waits awhile and then demands that his opponent be considered in forfeit. Whether this advice was given by his second or not is immaterial. He had the letter in his possession, he knew the situation, he made his decision. For anyone to blame it on the advice he was given is ridiculous. That doesn't make the advice any better, but the
responsibility for the decision still rests with the one who made it. This same challenger then announces that he will be leaving the realm for a period of weeks.
The whole situation strikes me as a terrible mess from start to finish. Both Baron and challenger made numerous immature, selfish, and just plain stupid decisions. Each wishes all the blame to be laid with his opponent. If the situation that resulted from their blunders and childish behavior were not so frightening, I would find the whole mess laughable.
If either one of these people ends up in possession of the ring when this is all over, I hope someone takes it from them. If no one tries or succeeds, I would try myself when I had the peer wins. Both parties should seriously reflect on their own errors in this matter and their seconds should ask themselves why they involved themselves in the first place. It isn't like no one knew the foibles of the principles in this challenge. I don't think anyone
can plead ignorance. Nor do I think anyone can really defend either principle very seriously or sincerely for very long.
What was everyone thinking?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Captain, Rising Stars
Duelist
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From: aspenminds@aol.com (AspenMinds)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 20:50:21 EDT
::scowls:: I am not going to share what I have shared with the council with you. all would still pick at it and say it was stupid. There was no true way to win either way. The community doesn't ahve much of a vote as to what is to happen. Frankly I don't want the damn ring.
Aspen
Date: 19 Aug 1999 20:50:21 EDT
::scowls:: I am not going to share what I have shared with the council with you. all would still pick at it and say it was stupid. There was no true way to win either way. The community doesn't ahve much of a vote as to what is to happen. Frankly I don't want the damn ring.
Aspen
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 21:29:28 EDT
Aspen~
If you didn't want it, why did you challenge in the first place?
~Sidartha Elgarette
Date: 19 Aug 1999 21:29:28 EDT
Aspen~
If you didn't want it, why did you challenge in the first place?
~Sidartha Elgarette
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 22:44:38 EDT
>> Frankly I don't want the damn ring.<<
Even if I don't quite believe it, I would have to say that is the best thing I have heard for sometime. Now if only Methous will say the same thing I will be very happy.
Percy
Date: 19 Aug 1999 22:44:38 EDT
>> Frankly I don't want the damn ring.<<
Even if I don't quite believe it, I would have to say that is the best thing I have heard for sometime. Now if only Methous will say the same thing I will be very happy.
Percy
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From: methous45@aol.com (Methous45)
Date: 19 Aug 1999 22:59:58 EDT
::I don't want the Damn ring::
finnally me and Aspen agree
Date: 19 Aug 1999 22:59:58 EDT
::I don't want the Damn ring::
finnally me and Aspen agree
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From: falablah@aol.com (Falablah)
Date: 20 Aug 1999 00:16:57 EDT
"7. Nothing Aspen did caused Mehtous to act in the manner which followed, where upon a Baronial Ring of the DoS was literally destroyed."
Taylara,
soo...umm......why did Methous do it?
~Falablah Dalegate~
~Mage~
~Former Warlord~
~Former Emerald~
~Twice Holder of Pathfinder~
~Member of House Asgard~
Date: 20 Aug 1999 00:16:57 EDT
"7. Nothing Aspen did caused Mehtous to act in the manner which followed, where upon a Baronial Ring of the DoS was literally destroyed."
Taylara,
soo...umm......why did Methous do it?
~Falablah Dalegate~
~Mage~
~Former Warlord~
~Former Emerald~
~Twice Holder of Pathfinder~
~Member of House Asgard~
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 20 Aug 1999 00:50:08 EDT
<<Taylara,
soo...umm......why did Methous do it? ...>>
Because poor little godling Methous did not get his way.
Cor.
Date: 20 Aug 1999 00:50:08 EDT
<<Taylara,
soo...umm......why did Methous do it? ...>>
Because poor little godling Methous did not get his way.
Cor.
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From: aspenminds@aol.com (AspenMinds)
Date: 20 Aug 1999 00:52:04 EDT
I don't want it now...after all of what has transpired I don't want it. I did before though...
Aspen
Date: 20 Aug 1999 00:52:04 EDT
I don't want it now...after all of what has transpired I don't want it. I did before though...
Aspen
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From: taylara@aol.com (Taylara)
Date: 20 Aug 1999 01:00:20 EDT
Why don't you ask Methous..... Gheeze!
Date: 20 Aug 1999 01:00:20 EDT
Why don't you ask Methous..... Gheeze!
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 20 Aug 1999 01:54:45 EDT
Morgan
Lass, thee aire ast skilled ast anna in th' adept arts. Tis th' ring wast desecrated, damaged, nae destroyed. Tis somethin' ast magical ast th' Baron's rings canna be truly destroyed, though anna thin' crafted 'o matter, e'en th' mos' magical canst be damaged. Tis th' dust an' shards 'o th' desecrated Ring aire indeed in th' 'ands of Madame Silvertree. Tis I am ast adept ast anna mage an can assure thee th' ring wast nae irrevocably destroyed
though th' damage ta it wast indeed extensive.
I am indeed perusing ancient tomes searching fer th' name 'o th' original craftsman, though tis possible th' name hast been lost in th' mists of time. However, I do call upon thee, ast well ast th' sorceror, Xenograg kathu Darelir, and indeed ast well th' current Guardian of the Wards, Auritan the Meek, ast well seeking out the cleric, Athlstan, ast well as the Mage of Questrion, Moralitor, an' the Shadow Lord, Daegarth Mithmellon ast well ast ta
seek out a capable silversmith to aid Madame Silvertree in reforging and restoring the spells lain upon the Eighth Ring.
To the Baron's Council and the Overlord
Gentles,
In light of the callous and blatant desecration of the Eighth Ring by the Baron Methous of Amber, I do humbly call upon thee to issue unto Methous the gravest of punishments. He hast continually and with malicious shown nothing but utter disregard for the community from commoner to the titled ranks. Considering his missives 'pon this ancient cork, wherein he hast one the one hand praised former holders of the Eighth Ring then, in nothing less than
a seeming fit of childish pique, he didst damage the verra ring he held tis such punishment that shall be meted out unto him canna e'er make amends for his behavior. His history within these halls hast been little but a sheer mockery of all that shouldst be honored, e'en by the most witless of louts. Stoning wouldst be too good fer him. Banishment to the Abyss forever, wouldst be too good fer 'im. Hanging wouldst be too good fer him. Were he to
be hanged, drawn and quartered and his bones left to rot upon the city gates, it would be too good fer 'im. Were he to be cast upon the planes to forever wander, outcast, it would be too good fer 'im. Were he to be blinded, his hands struck from his arms, his feet struck from his legs, his eardrums pierced with hot irons, and he to be placed upon a wheeled pallet in the center of the basement, to be spat upon by all who enter, it would be too good
fer 'im.
I do humbly call upon the Council to strip him of the title of Baron of the Eighth. I do further call upon the Council to pronounce a punishment upon him to fit the crime. Were it in the power of the Council to pronounce a sentence of banishment from the rings, I wouldst call upon them to do so. Were it within the power of the Council to strike his name from the Histories, I wouldst call upon them to do so.
Further I do here and now call upon every duelist from commoner to the Overlord to deny Methous the chance to regain his bonafides, aye, to refrain from dueling the godling. To permit one such as he the honor of crossing blades considering with what contempt he hast repeatedly declared that he dost hold for these ancient hallowed halls and for the mockery he hast made of the title of holder of the Eighth Ring, wouldst be but a further mockery and a
condoning of his behavior. In all mine days, none, none hast shown such utter contempt for the duels. None.
Jonalyn Starfare
Common as they come.
Date: 20 Aug 1999 01:54:45 EDT
Morgan
Lass, thee aire ast skilled ast anna in th' adept arts. Tis th' ring wast desecrated, damaged, nae destroyed. Tis somethin' ast magical ast th' Baron's rings canna be truly destroyed, though anna thin' crafted 'o matter, e'en th' mos' magical canst be damaged. Tis th' dust an' shards 'o th' desecrated Ring aire indeed in th' 'ands of Madame Silvertree. Tis I am ast adept ast anna mage an can assure thee th' ring wast nae irrevocably destroyed
though th' damage ta it wast indeed extensive.
I am indeed perusing ancient tomes searching fer th' name 'o th' original craftsman, though tis possible th' name hast been lost in th' mists of time. However, I do call upon thee, ast well ast th' sorceror, Xenograg kathu Darelir, and indeed ast well th' current Guardian of the Wards, Auritan the Meek, ast well seeking out the cleric, Athlstan, ast well as the Mage of Questrion, Moralitor, an' the Shadow Lord, Daegarth Mithmellon ast well ast ta
seek out a capable silversmith to aid Madame Silvertree in reforging and restoring the spells lain upon the Eighth Ring.
To the Baron's Council and the Overlord
Gentles,
In light of the callous and blatant desecration of the Eighth Ring by the Baron Methous of Amber, I do humbly call upon thee to issue unto Methous the gravest of punishments. He hast continually and with malicious shown nothing but utter disregard for the community from commoner to the titled ranks. Considering his missives 'pon this ancient cork, wherein he hast one the one hand praised former holders of the Eighth Ring then, in nothing less than
a seeming fit of childish pique, he didst damage the verra ring he held tis such punishment that shall be meted out unto him canna e'er make amends for his behavior. His history within these halls hast been little but a sheer mockery of all that shouldst be honored, e'en by the most witless of louts. Stoning wouldst be too good fer him. Banishment to the Abyss forever, wouldst be too good fer 'im. Hanging wouldst be too good fer him. Were he to
be hanged, drawn and quartered and his bones left to rot upon the city gates, it would be too good fer 'im. Were he to be cast upon the planes to forever wander, outcast, it would be too good fer 'im. Were he to be blinded, his hands struck from his arms, his feet struck from his legs, his eardrums pierced with hot irons, and he to be placed upon a wheeled pallet in the center of the basement, to be spat upon by all who enter, it would be too good
fer 'im.
I do humbly call upon the Council to strip him of the title of Baron of the Eighth. I do further call upon the Council to pronounce a punishment upon him to fit the crime. Were it in the power of the Council to pronounce a sentence of banishment from the rings, I wouldst call upon them to do so. Were it within the power of the Council to strike his name from the Histories, I wouldst call upon them to do so.
Further I do here and now call upon every duelist from commoner to the Overlord to deny Methous the chance to regain his bonafides, aye, to refrain from dueling the godling. To permit one such as he the honor of crossing blades considering with what contempt he hast repeatedly declared that he dost hold for these ancient hallowed halls and for the mockery he hast made of the title of holder of the Eighth Ring, wouldst be but a further mockery and a
condoning of his behavior. In all mine days, none, none hast shown such utter contempt for the duels. None.
Jonalyn Starfare
Common as they come.
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 20 Aug 1999 03:57:59 EDT
Let it be known.
The Warlord Aspen was seen in the Arena this very night by myself, as was Methous... who I shall never refer to as a Baron.
Amazing how things turn, isn't it?
Despite the Warlord Aspen having told Skall that the matter should be turned over to the Council, he was given numerous chances by myself, Skall, and the members of the Council who were there at the time, to change that decision and duel the match.
The actual letter from Methous, stating his inablity to attend the duel, was delivered to my office and to the Warlord's mailbox a full twenty minutes before the match, yet utterly disregarded by the Challenger.
Methous was advised by myself that the circumstances favored him, and he disregarded that by his willful destruction of the 8th.
This was called "the Challenge from Hell" because both men involved have shown an utter disregard of Honor, Respect and Integrity. Both men have shown reprehensible behavior in the past... which I have witnessed personally mind you, I am not voicing hear-say.
In closing...
Yes, there were a number of powerful practitioners of magick in the Arena at the time Methous crushed the 8th, I count myself among their number. However, I must also count Methous as a practitioner of powerful magicks and admit that my own magicks take time and concentration to work. I am certain that, had she been aware of his intentions in time to act, Lady Starfare would have acted to prevent Methous from doing what he did.
Such awareness was not there, and time to act was not their either. There is only so much a practitioner can be expected to do, magick is not the answer to every ill in the world.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 20 Aug 1999 03:57:59 EDT
Let it be known.
The Warlord Aspen was seen in the Arena this very night by myself, as was Methous... who I shall never refer to as a Baron.
Amazing how things turn, isn't it?
Despite the Warlord Aspen having told Skall that the matter should be turned over to the Council, he was given numerous chances by myself, Skall, and the members of the Council who were there at the time, to change that decision and duel the match.
The actual letter from Methous, stating his inablity to attend the duel, was delivered to my office and to the Warlord's mailbox a full twenty minutes before the match, yet utterly disregarded by the Challenger.
Methous was advised by myself that the circumstances favored him, and he disregarded that by his willful destruction of the 8th.
This was called "the Challenge from Hell" because both men involved have shown an utter disregard of Honor, Respect and Integrity. Both men have shown reprehensible behavior in the past... which I have witnessed personally mind you, I am not voicing hear-say.
In closing...
Yes, there were a number of powerful practitioners of magick in the Arena at the time Methous crushed the 8th, I count myself among their number. However, I must also count Methous as a practitioner of powerful magicks and admit that my own magicks take time and concentration to work. I am certain that, had she been aware of his intentions in time to act, Lady Starfare would have acted to prevent Methous from doing what he did.
Such awareness was not there, and time to act was not their either. There is only so much a practitioner can be expected to do, magick is not the answer to every ill in the world.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.