O'erlord Challenge Results...

[DoS Archive]

From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 13 Sep 2000 20:05:02 EDT

"Can you possibly think it was self-sacrifice that led him to keep fighting?"

Allow me to postulate.

Let us, for the moment, pretend that I am Overlord. The deciding match of a challenge has slipped into overtime. My challenger is someone who in my eyes, as well as many, many others, wraps all the very worst qualities possible into one package.

Now, I could give in, and let this challenger take my title... or I can fight to my death to defend it from him. Would you call that self-serving, or self-sacrificing, Lady Silvertree?

I'll take the latter... which means, yes, it's most certainly possible to think so, and still be a reasonable being.

Regards,
Ian Rex.

[DoS Archive]

From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 13 Sep 2000 21:01:53 EDT

Laird MacKenzie.

At no time was it suggested that Dalamar forfiet the duel to stop it... Only to pause the duel long enough for him to receive what aid could be administered.

Twice the man who, in your words "wraps all the very worst qualities possible into one package", stepped away after an exchange of blows to offer a pause in the duel... clearly concerned for Dalamar's health.
Dalamar refused.

I do not call that self-sacrifice.

Too many people blamed Eros DeBurgo for Dalamar's death... The only one to blame is Dalamar himself.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 13 Sep 2000 21:54:44 EDT

Madame Silvertree,

Ast for Eros de Burgo bein' clearly concerned fer Dalamar's 'ealth, balderdash. Eros wast nigh oblivous ta Dalamar's pain e'en ta nae noticin' th' Dalamar hae fallen at 'is verra feet.

Ast much ast thee certes wouldst wish ta laud th' drunken lout Eros, Madame, kindly dinna attempt ta denigrate Dalamar Ar'Daumon's courage in th' match.

Thee wh' hae shown thineself ta hae nae anna cognizance 'o ta meanin' 'o self sacrifice an' hast done naught bu' spew yuir own self servin' comments 'ither an' yon, tis nae surprisin' thee wouldst so continue yuir scurrilous drivel.

Jonalyn Starfare

[DoS Archive]

From: sartanz@aol.com (Sartan Z)
Date: 13 Sep 2000 22:38:21 EDT

>">I would not put the self serving actions of your former lover in the same
>>league as Pru
>
>Yes because, as everyone knows, suffering through a vicious match and being
>unhealed by the Ward of Gondor is completely and utterly self-serving.
>
>Sartan"
>
> You were the one who compared Dalamar's death, which by the testemony of
>Morgan Le Fay did not occur in the ring itself, to Prudence's death.
> By your sarcastic phrasing, you imply that what Dalamar did was in no
>way self-serving.
> I believe that it was. Perhaps not conciously, but it served his pride.
> I fully believe that Dalamar knew, late in the duel, that if he did not
>stop the stress and wounds would cause his death.
> Can you possibly think it was self-sacrifice that led him to keep
>fighting?

Drake,

I'll again repeat that my comment doesn't relate to Prudence at all. As you copied for me, my comment is in regards to Seamus's comment about Dalamar's actions that night being self-serving, which I believe to be utterly ridiculous and still have yet to hear from him in specific as to otherwise.

Since you seem insistent on discussing this though, let's. I personally don't think it's any more self-serving to finish a duel for a title than it is to continue going to your job every day. Each of those is a responsibility you have and following through on either of them isn't self-serving; it's fulfilling a committment.

In regards to Dalamar's injuries, no amount of rest short of a matter of weeks or months even would have been enough for Dalamar to receive any "medical attention" since he would have been totally unaffected by any magical attempts to heal him. His injuries were that serious, obviously.

Sartan

[DoS Archive]

From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 13 Sep 2000 23:37:24 EDT

"Twice the man who, in your words "wraps all the very worst qualities possible into one package", stepped away after an exchange of blows to offer a pause in the duel... clearly concerned for Dalamar's health."

Some might call it insult rather than concern. I won't say I'm necessarily one of them, but in a test of battle, certainly, there are those who ask and give no quarter, and consider asking or giving quarter to be dishonorable.

Regards,
Ian Rex.

[DoS Archive]

From: gunthrodw@aol.com (Gunthr ODW)
Date: 13 Sep 2000 23:55:06 EDT

::stumbling apon the board, he happens to catch the results of the OL match. Not even about to bore himself with all the attached, he skips to the first open page and writes::

Lord Daegarth,
Did you ever know that you are my hero? Well, you are. Well done my friend, well done.

Sincerely,
Gunthar O'dwyer

[DoS Archive]

From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 03:37:17 EDT

Lady Starfare,

You are a bald-faced liar. Your claims regarding Eros DeBurgo's behavior that night are complete lies.
You seem to forget that I was there and I witnessed the entire match.

Laird MacKenzie,

Were the Duel of Swords a venue where death was normally considered possible, your assertation might hold some validity.
However, the Duel of Swords is a Sport. A venue in which death was not something that was desired.

Sartan,

Many deaths in battle are not due to the blows being struck, but to the shock and bloodloss which follows.
I believe that, given the skilled non-magical healing that was available that night, a pause in the fighting to tend to Dalamar's injuries would have saved his life.

In closing,

It should be noted that Morgan Le Fay, Sartan and Roland Sal Roa took Dalamar from the Annex while claiming he still lived. When questioned on the subject, only Sartan has ever said that Dalamar was dead.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

[DoS Archive]

From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 13:13:42 EDT

"Were the Duel of Swords a venue where death was normally considered possible, your assertation might hold some validity.
However, the Duel of Swords is a Sport. A venue in which death was not something that was desired."

In light of the fact that were are more than perfectly aware that the Ward of Gondar is not a precise nor perfect instrument for the prevention of death or injury, this statement is rather insensitive.

Furthermore, given that not only DID Dalamar die in the defense, but that you're responding to one other such person upon whom the Ward is ineffective, the statement then becomes fairly illogical, pointless, and borders on the asinine.

Rest assured that if I held title and saw fit to die in its defense, it would be because I was THAT intent on the opponent NOT gaining the title. If someone who quite frankly is a poster child for self-absorption wishes to consider that self-serving, I suppose we oughtn't be surprised.

Regards,
Ian Rex.

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 16:59:20 EDT

Madame Silvertree,

Since tis well known th' yuir abilities 'o recall mayest be deemed faulty at bes', tis little more th' amusin' fer thee ta fling 'bout ta accusation th' Ah am a liar. Tis thou hast shown thineself ta hae a penchant fer false statements, Madame, therefore for ye ta make so scurrilous an assertion ist ta be expected.

Tis amusin' ast well th' thou makest claim ta hae witnessed ta match yet thou canst make such ignorant nae ta mention inaccurate statements ast ta th' 'appenin's th' eve. Tis a penchant 'o yuirs, Madame, though one wh' ist nae likely ta be soon remedied.

Assuredly thou art ast well ignorant 'o th' fact th' within mere moments 'o garnerin' ta mantle th' eve, Eros wast hastenin' 'bout attemptin' ta secure support fer 'is reign, an' assuredly showin' little concern fer ta wellbeing 'o Dalamar.

Madame Silvertree, death hast always been a possibility within these ancient rings. Assuredly, Death hast claimed 'is share 'o souls wh' hae lifted blade o'er th' years. For anna ta opine th' death ist nae ta be normally considered ast bein' possible when liftin' blade be little more th' a foolish assertion, an' one wh' may be givin' a false sense 'o security ta those wh' enter inta th' lists.

Jonalyn Starfare

[DoS Archive]

From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 17:27:16 EDT

Laird MacKenzie,

As one such person upon whom the Ward is ineffective, I can say that if someone does not take what steps they can to secure other healing or protection... they are being overly cavalier with their life.
Second; I state again that the Duel of Swords is a Sport. Do you honestly expect me to believe it is better to die trying to keep a title that you or some other person could simply win back at a later date?
Thirdly; explain again how pausing the duel long enough to, at the minimum, bandage wounds to prevent further blood loss, could be considered dishonorable in a Sport.

Lastly; simply because the Ward does not function for you or I, does that mean that everyone must expect that death in the rings is something to be expected... much less desired?
Should we not, instead, do what we can to prevent such an event from happening again?
And, before someone says it, I am not saying that we should not allow those whom the Ward does not heal to duel. I am saying that we should work to prevent more deaths.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

[DoS Archive]

From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 17:39:28 EDT

Lady Starfare.

You do a poor service with your words. Your clever wording states that, in your own words, "Madame Silvertree, death hast always been a possibility within these ancient rings. Assuredly, Death hast claimed 'is share 'o souls wh' hae lifted blade o'er th' years. For anna ta opine th' death ist nae ta be normally considered ast bein' possible when liftin' blade be little more th' a foolish
assertion, an' one wh' may be givin' a false sense 'o security ta those wh' enter inta th' lists." Name for me all the duelists who have died in the rings of the Duel of Swords.
Name for me how many duelists have dies outside the rings of the Duel of Swords.
As for giving a "false sense of security"... That comes from simply watching the duels take place.
To give the impression that death is to be expected is to give a false sense of dread to the Duel of Swords.

On your other statement, "Assuredly thou art ast well ignorant 'o th' fact th' within mere moments 'o garnerin' ta mantle th' eve, Eros wast hastenin' 'bout attemptin' ta secure support fer 'is reign, an' assuredly showin' little concern fer ta wellbeing 'o Dalamar." You cannot refute my statement that Eros twice gave Dalamar the chance to pause the
duel long enough to gain some form of medical attention.
I made no claim as to Eros' actions after the duel, though your penchant for exaggeration is obvious here.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

[DoS Archive]

From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 19:12:58 EDT

"Second; I state again that the Duel of Swords is a Sport. Do you honestly expect me to believe it is better to die trying to keep a title that you or some other person could simply win back at a later date?"

To some people, it is quite demonstrably much more than a sport. Do you deny this?

"Thirdly; explain again how pausing the duel long enough to, at the minimum, bandage wounds to prevent further blood loss, could be considered dishonorable in a Sport."

If you cannot deny the above, then you must understand that there will be those who consider anything short of fighting unaided unto the end to be less than honorable.

"Lastly; simply because the Ward does not function for you or I, does that mean that everyone must expect that death in the rings is something to be expected... much less desired?"

Of course not. However, that is not what you indicated. Your previous statement strongly implied that because the Powers That Be would desire that duelers not be killed, then questions of honor and such must be based on that desire. It's a patently silly notion. You cannot speak for others' honor, Lady Silvertree. If one's honor demands that one remain in the ring until the bitter end without accepting outside aid, it's rather presumptous and,
indeed, insulting for you to pooh-pooh the notion that they may have been acting in a sense of sacrifice and instead claim that they were merely being self-serving.

Regards,
Ian Rex.

[DoS Archive]

From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 21:32:19 EDT

Laird MacKenzie,

Quite simply, you and I have differing views on what the Duel of Swords is.
To throw one's life away for the sake of a single duel in a Sport is, in my opinion, a true waste.
To sacrifice one's life to protect countless others is, in my opinion, a noble act.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.

[DoS Archive]

From: sidarthax@aol.com (Sidartha x)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 22:10:43 EDT

Drakewyn~

How many times do you have to be told that nobody is trying to besmirch Pru's actions or even try to equate what happened to Dalamar with them?

~Sid

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 14 Sep 2000 23:19:01 EDT

Madame Silvertree,

The most recent demise in the ring wast of the man what chose to champion the now deceased Overlord. He gave what mayest only be presumed ta be an alias, Smith, ta be precise.

Madame, ast to those others what hae lain body an' blood upon the sands, their names be legion. Tis amusing, that thee what hae so oft made claim 'o so much knowledge wouldst make anna demand 'o me so shortly after offering yuir usual laughable insult.


Ast ta refuting yuir assertions, Madame, perhaps it ne'er entered inta yuir mind that t'was Eros seeking respite in the face 'o Vengence rather than that t'was Eros offering quarter unto Dalamar?

Doubtless, with thine recognized penchant fer less than accurate recall ast well ast thine recognized penchant fer being unable ta accurately understand e'en the simplest 'o magics let alone having anna understandin' 'o the spirits what yet haunt these ancient halls, one may quite easily opine tis bootless ta do ought but ta apprise anna an' all what hae a modicum 'o intellect ta take yuir comments with a verra large grain 'o salt.

Well do Ah also recall that Eros wast fearful that 'is challenge might nae find its way past yuir employee, one Karen Jansen, ast well, do Ah recall 'is attempts ta present himself ast ta savior 'o th' ancient sport.

Madame Silvertree, thou wouldst perhaps desire this ancient blood sport ta be naught but a bed 'o posies, an' perhaps wouldst that nae anna blood be shed. Yet, Madame, blood stains the sands, the blood of hero an' knave alike. Tis truly a pity that tis nae thee what lay spawled an' bleeding thine lifesblood away, Madame. I for one, shall shout praises to the very heavens upon the day thine demise ist reported.

Jonalyn Starfare