Petition to Lady Girvin (Summer)

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 11:22:10 EDT

Dear Lady Helix Deverrey Girvin,

I, Summer Oakenshield, do hereby request that me husband of over a year, be allowed ta bestow as many wins as he sees fit ta his loving wife. I have been here for a bit of time, and have studies ta ways and means of ta officials, and ta people that make this such a grand place it seem only fitting and right that a man, such as me husband, be allowed ta follow his heart.

Patrons gift wins ta their spouses would promote community harmony and family values within the arena. A marriage be more than about just love and honoring. It be about sharing. If ta DoS see fit ta fine one partner of all her worldly goods, that would make ta spouse a pauper as well. So if we share ta trials of ta DoS, should we nae be allowed ta share ta wins he won with his own sweat and
skill?

Seventy-seven percent of the patrons of Duel of Swords approve of such a gift. They be understading it be about honor, about being able ta dedicate your heart ta those ya love and cherish above all: Ya wife or husband.

After careful perusal of the rules and study of ta History, there is none that would disallow such a gift. As I know ya be a woman who prefers ta be modest in ya interpretation of ta rule, I be suprised if ya would want ta make a new one, just ta prevent me husband from doing what he earned ta right ta do.


Respectfully,


Summer Rose Oakenshield

[DoS Archive]

From: falablah@aol.com (Falablah)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 12:11:53 EDT

::reads through the post and looks to the sky in a stupified way::
::looks back to the board and gets a piece of paper out of back pocket and pens a note::

Lady Oakenshield,
How does sharing wins with a loved one "promote community harmony and family vaules"? This is a society fueled by wars and senseless fighting. If we started to share wins this would make dueling here more popular (if thats possible) and add on to the fighting outside of the rings. I can honestly say that i learned my way with the sword here and i bet i'm not the only one. If people are having problems with their loved ones fix it outside of the ring
(not implying that you are). Thats all the rambling I'll let myself do for now but just reconsider how stupid this sounds.

~Falablah Dalegate~

~Emerald, Mage,ex-Warlord~

~Resident of the Outback~

~Whoha kinda guy~

[DoS Archive]

From: rdihelix@aol.com (RDI Helix)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 12:39:28 EDT

::reads the crisp parchment, surprised to see her own name written so boldly, and pens a reply, leaving it tacked to Summer's original note::

Lady Oakenshield,

Though I do indeed honor family values, honorin' them and somehow makin' rulin's with regard to them are different matters. I'm the Duel of Swords Supervisor, not a marital referee, aye?

I have to deny yer request for two reasons:

First, yer correct in pointin' out that it would be against my nature to create some sort of rule that would outlaw such a transfer, however, bein' the conservative you pointed me out as bein', I also need to point out there is no rule to *allow* such a transfer.

Secondly, though I think the fact that ye and Jeffrey are willin' to share what's between ye is a wonderful thin', I have to point out that it has the potential to be a double edged sword. Though yer and Jeffrey's intentions might well be good, allowin' such transfers also opens the door to people with less than honorable intentions. Suddenly I'm seein' pictures of pre-nuptial agreements, divorce agreements, accusations of infidelity or other
dishonorable behavior and why that should overturn or a gift and other manners of bickerin' I *really* don't want to get involved in. The amount of effort invested to simply run the sport each week should be enough, aye?

My very best to ye and yer husband, notwithstandin' the views pointed out above.

~Helix

[DoS Archive]

From: qnluthien@aol.com (QnLuthien)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 13:42:23 EDT

On the Topic of Gifting Wins:

Indeed... never allow the seed of doubt to be planted. Especially these questions of... "Do you love me for my WoL record?"

A perfect example of the problems win-transfers could cause is a look at Roland and myself.
While I could lose my next 50-some duels before getting nervous about losing rank-Warlord, Roland's situation is a bit more precarious. Roland and I are engaged. I'm perfectly content not to be lift'n a brow and wondering if he is covertly 'after my money' so to speak. Such a gifting rule would plant seeds of doubt.

Also, my record looks good on paper, yes... 82-11-0. Not among the most impressive records, but it is a secure one. But that record took me no less than 4 years to build. Taking that into consideration, it is alot less attractive. AND... "sorry Roland, love you to pieces, but I'm not about to gift over any of my wins." I fought tooth-nail see-saw'n my record gradually upward. Caaan't do'er. Now that'd promote unity and family
values eh!?


Queen Luthien Tinuviel
New Mountainside
Willhalmett
&RhyDin

[DoS Archive]

From: shivblade@aol.com (SHIV BLADE)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 14:03:21 EDT

::Listening to the boy read the latest of the messages concerning this topic::

Thank God this did not go through.

::pen this for me::

DoS patrons,

This is the way i see this matter. The WoL are not to give for a simple reason. They are not physical. your WoL ratio implies skill. How is it that in a matter of seconds your skill could jump up like that? It cant. Now... i do see the points you are making Summer...and of course i mean no disrespect to you or Jeff in this matter. Yet think of it like how i just said. How is it that you could transfer this skill?Now you might say....."well what if he
was to teach me for a certain length of time, and that is how i got the skill." Okay...now you have a point.... but then how does the teacher lose skill? You cannot transfer skill like this....and that is pure and simple what the WoL ratio is...Skill. You yourself said that he it is won with his own seat and skill....so i just wonder how you obtain this. It like saying....that Jeff could shot an arrow and always hit the bullseye. This is a great
skill that he has earned by practice. Now how is it that he could just give you this skill? He can't!! It doesn't matter how much you love each other, or how much he wants to give it to you.... he plain and simply can't. The same goes for WoL. I really don't see how this would promot harmony either. It might promote it within a few people...the married people, but the rest.....The way i see it, people would be mighty pissed that others(men/women)
were getting higher ranks/skill, just cause they were married. Thats wrong. You earn your skills by fighting..not by marrying into them. If ya want to promote harmony why not start a Poker...or card night? So i hope the 77% of the people ya found to agree with ya will take a hard look at this and see what i am talking about. I know love is a tremendous thing between two people. And that in love both are willing to give the world to the other. Yet
there are some things that just can't be given...like Ones blue eyes, ones crooked fingers, one abilites, and WoL.

Avery Shiv Blade
Baron of the 6th
Young Grasshopper

[DoS Archive]

From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 14:35:32 EDT

::Slaps up a note::

Nice try Summer, I think this'll go about as far as the time you asked me to speak for you trying to be able to thrust twice in a row.

Humster


::snickers and wanders off::

[DoS Archive]

From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 15:09:49 EDT

I gotta say somethin' about this. I can't believe this was even taken seriously.

I agree totally with Avery on this matter. WoLs are a measure of your skill, or if not your skill, then at least your ability to win. They are earned by you and no one else, and as such should not be available to anyone else.

It's just like you said, "he won [the WoLs] with his own sweat and skill". The key here is his own skill. The WoLs are a measure of his skill, not yours, and they are a statistic, not "worldly goods" as you imply.

I just have two questions: How did you come up with "seventy-seven percent of the patrons" approving this? I am genuinely curious, and do not mean to be insulting-- but it does not seem to me that nearly that many approve it.

Also, just why do you want Jeff's WoLs?

That is all I have to say about this matter. I am glad Helix has ruled the way she did, for this proposal does not have very firm roots.

Of course, I mean no insult to you or anyone, but this is an idea which simply cannot be allowed. I merely wished to debate it.

Zen

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 15:57:41 EDT

::checks the status of her open petition and is startled by the summary dismissal. Thinks for a moment and pens her reply, tacking it as an addendum to Helix's reply::



Lady Girvin,

Mayhaps you should reconsider, for why would this leave ya a Marital referee? Once bestowed, it would be up to the parties to determine if they should be given back. For is not possession 9/10s of ta law?

Furthermore, because there be no rule sayin' ya can bestow wins does nae mean ya can't. There be no rule saying that ya can morph in ta ring and become a dragon, for instance. Now, for someone like me, who mayhaps thinks I challenged a regular ole bloke, changing inta a dragon mid duel be verra verra unfair. I be no more than 5' 4" an am seriously out weighed. Should I tell ta RDI that it does nae say ya can become a dragon in ta rules, and
therefor ta match be mine because Helix has declared that it if aint a rule it cant be done?

Finally, as I stated afor - ya only need ta oversee ta transfer, once done what else be there ta do? Ta pettiness of some be thier own headache, no need ta make it ya own.

Respectfully,


Summer

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:00:57 EDT

::glances through Falablah's note, and quickly pens at the bottom::

Why would this cause anymore discord then there already be? It be a simple gift, and it be mine belief that ta decision ta have a babe, or where ya live, or how ya spend ya gold be far more important than if ya choose to share ya wins with ya loved one.


Summer

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:04:44 EDT

::smiles reading about Roland and Luth and whispers to herself:: Aye, they be a fine couple.
::quickly pens at the bottom of Luth's thoughts::

Luth,

If ya hae reason ta think any would but love ya for nutting but your record - then ya should nae even consider marrying them. Marriage be about trust luv, and if ta thought crossed ya mind, then ya should nae step afor ta world and take ta man to ya heart.

Mayhaps it do some good, make people think a bit harder afor they marry.


S

[DoS Archive]

From: rolandsal@aol.com (Roland Sal)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:11:43 EDT

The point being to this whole thing? Rank? Why else would you need wins? I mean, Dalamar could start fresh, claim he wishes to fall in rank to Commoner and people wouldn't think less of his skill. So if its rank you want, and 'sharing' between the loved ones... why not just average the standings as "The Oakenshields 430: 10: 2 7/23/98", they'd fall under the rank... "happily married". Now there's a thought, eh? We've got
a Warlord's Corner... why not a Couple's Corner?


Roland



::supresses a snicker as he tacks up the post, wandering
off for a moment peace within the basement::

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:12:23 EDT

::takes a long time to read through Avery's thoughts. Hesitates, having to think a bit longer in her response, then quickly scrawls::

Baron Shiv,

There be one error in considering wins ta be a measure of skill; that be they are nae. I give ya ta Jonalyn, one of ta most feared duelists in ta Arena, yet look at her record. Or mayhaps ya think one who hae stalked ta Arena for ta fresh ones, and garnered ta wins off those that do nae even know how ta duel equal ta yaself, who hae faced many a fine duelists and beaten them fairly?

Nae, it nae be ta only mark of skill - it also be ta mark of luck and of time spent in ta Arena. Mayhaps being able ta share ta winnings of ta time spent out of ta arms of ta one ya love be a part of marriage.

If some do nae like it, well - there be much some don't like. That just be ta way of ta world.


S

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:13:41 EDT

::reads Huma's quick note and bursts into laughter, her memory serving her well::

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:17:13 EDT

::reads through Zen's concerns carefully and thinks that she answered many of them in her scrawl to Avery. Writes carefully at the bottom of Zen's note::

Look to ta left, there be a stack of yeas and naes on ta matter. That be where I got me statistics. And I be wantin' ta wins 'cause me Jeff be wanting ta give them ta me.


S

[DoS Archive]

From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:21:20 EDT

Summer glances up catching sight of another note as someone snickers away behind her. Her eyes light up seeing Roland's suggestion, a soft warm fuzzy feeling curling up inside her.

"Now I do hope ta Helix think about this!"

Yawns, suddenly tired from all the writing and saunter off whistling a soft romatic ballad.