The Question of Intent

[DoS Archive]

From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 13:45:42 EST

Recent arguments and events being what they are, I thought I would take the time to do some writing. As everyone here knows, I have an opinion on just about everything. Likewise, as everyone knows, that opinion is usually considered radical or extreme by at least a few. Since I know how much you all love to hear these little tidbits of mine, I thought I would post my opinion on an issue that has
recently come to pass. The statement of intent to challenge, what does it mean? Is it merely a way to blow off steam? Is it an attempt to goad someone into looking foolish? Is it, quite simply, a simple statement of one's intent for the purposes of public information?
These questions are rather simply answered. In my opinion, the notice of intent to challenge is a device used to inform. Its purpose is twofold. The first is to inform the target of the planned challenge that, when the required conditions for a challenge are met, he or she will be challenged. The second is to inform the public of this same intent, and to politely request that other potential challengers respect this intent. Very simple really,
neh? Very logical too.
This brings up another question. More specifically, two, at least. First, should we take such a statement of intent to be binding. Second, how should other potential challengers see said letter? I will answer the latter question first. Others who are considering a challenge to the title-holder named in the letter of intent have several choices. All of them are, technically, perfectly legitimate. Their first option is to go ahead and challenge
anyway. After all, a notice of intent is not official or binding in any way. It is merely a statement of preference. Secondly, they could choose to bide their time and wait for an official challenge to be made. This is quite a polite, courteous, even noble gesture. It shows patience, clear thinking, and sportsmanship. However, how many people are truly this forbearing and patient? It is slightly unrealistic, though certainly ideal. This brings up a
third choice. We, being rational men and women, should be able to communicate with each other. Someone who desires to challenge the title holder whom another has stated they intend to challenge could approach that would-be challenger and communicate. Rational individuals are capable of negotiating. Something can be worked out, and this also shows the etiquette and sportsmanship that always honors both a challenge match itself and the community and
sport in general.
Which brings us back to the first question. Are we to see a statement of intent as binding the warlord to challenge that title holder and that title holder only? To use myself as an example, I posted, at the end of the last cycle, my intent to challenge Baron Damon Black. At the beginning of this cycle I was approached by my friend Daelin Dragonsblade, a member of my house and a man I had seconded in his previous challenge. He said that he also
wished to challenge Damon Black, and asked if something could be worked out. Something was worked out. I, as a friend, stepped aside so he could make his challenge. Thus, intentions changed.
These are my opinions. What do all of you think?



Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
Member of House Dragoon-Talanador

[DoS Archive]

From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 14:15:46 EST

>We, being rational men and women, should be able to communicate with each
>other.

::chuckles a little as he comes across this line, but decides it best to hold his tounge and not make any sarcastic remarks::

((Author's note: Not a post))

[DoS Archive]

From: faxfallen@aol.com (Faxfallen)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 15:13:31 EST

::writes::

Your thoughts are appreiated and your insight suberb. I agree with you. We should be able to work things out without going behind others backs.


Martafan Illusion Faxfallen

Grandmaster of DoS.

[DoS Archive]

From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 15:57:46 EST

I believe posting formal intents of challenge are a waste of everyone's time. As Drakewyn has learned, her intention behind posting the formal intent has been disregarded and in fact, encouraged the opposite and spurred another to make challenge.

[DoS Archive]

From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 15:58:47 EST

As the person who wrote the Letter of Intent that is causing so much controversy, I feel I should make a remark here.

In my Letter of Intent, as well as my subsiquent letter to answer many of the comments and questions brought up by it, I stated that... 1) I did not expect the Letter to disuade anyone from challenging the Baron. 2) I will not take exception to anyone's reasons or wishes to challenge the Baron.

Lord Lupton and I -have- spoken on this subject, and personally... I wish him well in his challenge.
It would be hypocritical in the extreme to say that I don't wish Baron Var would win, so that I may go ahead with my own challenge... but I will not wish Lord Lupton to loose, as that would be unsportmanlike.
I thank you for your time.


Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon (On vacation.)

[DoS Archive]

From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 16:20:53 EST

Simply,
I can't imagine myself writing an intent to challenge to anyone, but that doesn't mean I find fault with it. It's being honest. I'd rather see someone be honest then write on the boards, "I will never challenge you, even though I don't appreciate what you said." then turn around and challenge a couple days later.

Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|

[DoS Archive]

From: foxxgrrl@aol.com (Foxxgrrl)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 16:52:18 EST

"As Drakewyn has learned, her intention behind posting the formal intent has been disregarded and in fact, encouraged the opposite and spurred another to make challenge."

Morgan~
I realize that Lupton has in fact challenged Var, but when I read his letter I didn't see any reference to Drake's letter of intent. Perhaps I missed it, but all I saw was "[Noelle] guides me to this day challenge the Baron she did specifically name to be an inferior swordsman, Baron Var Medici-Giovanni." If he has stated elsewhere that Drake's letter influenced his decision, then this letter is clearly meaningless, but I have not heard anything
from him regarding Drake's announcement.
I would appreciate any information regarding this claim, since as far as I see Drake's letter of intent has had no significant negative effects. As far as we now know, Lupton would have challenged Var with or without Drake's intent of challenging being made public, and I believe the same people would have objected to Drake whether her challenge was announced yesterday or officially registered at the appropriate time.
Personally, I think announcing your intent to challenge is an honorable move, though in most cases it shouldn't come as a surprise to the "target". And the debate about Drake using her pregnancy to gain sympathy is, frankly, ridiculous. Had she merely posted an intent to challenge and failed to explain her reasons for not issuing challenge now, numerous fingers would be pointing at her, claiming she was a coward. She is a mother and she
naturally wishes to keep her children safe. Can any of you honestly fault her for not wanting to bring harm to her daughter? This is not a situation where immediate challenge is necessary...though Drake has a problem with Var, he is not mistreating anyone through the power of his Baron's ring, and it will make no difference if she removes the ring from his finger today or three months from now.
~Ally

[DoS Archive]

From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 17:18:44 EST

"I realize that Lupton has in fact challenged Var, but when I read his letter I didn't see any reference to Drake's letter of intent. Perhaps I missed it, but all I saw was "[Noelle] guides me to this day challenge the Baron she did specifically name to be an inferior swordsman, Baron Var Medici-Giovanni." If he has stated elsewhere that Drake's letter influenced his decision, then this letter is clearly meaningless,
but I have not heard anything
from him regarding Drake's announcement."

Coincidence? Perhaps. Nonetheless, posting the intent was a waste of time as Lupton challenged Drake's intended challengee near immediately. Certainly he has his own reasons for making challenge. I think Drakewyn did him a favor, honestly, having him realize that if he wished to challenge Var, he must do it soon.

"Personally, I think announcing your intent to challenge is an honorable move, though in most cases it shouldn't come as a surprise to the "target"."

That is nice to know. I still think it is a waste of everyone's time. In my opinion, honor has little to do with it.

The rest of your note to me leaves me baffled for I have yet to offer opinion on Drakewyn's pregnancy or anything relating to it. The only opinion I offered was what was asked and that is, as this pile of notes is titled "The Question of Intent."

[DoS Archive]

From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 17:44:57 EST

The rest of your note to me leaves me baffled for I have yet to offer opinion on Drakewyn's pregnancy or anything relating to it. The only opinion I offered was what was asked and that is, as this pile of notes is titled "The Question of Intent."<<

If I may interject here, I'd just like to say that I don't believe Ally meant that you in particular made that accusation.

~Sid

[DoS Archive]

From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 17:54:12 EST

My personal philosophy puts me to state my "intent" to challenge when I have the proper credentials and a ready blade to support my words.



~Lup

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 24 Dec 1998 19:50:13 EST

Morgan,

Indeed, I most heartily agree, tis a waste of time.



Percival,

I dinna consider thine opinions either radical or extreme, I consider them for what they are, somewhat lacking in logic. Though thee makes claim to having been some time in the realms, I must say thou seems to have forgotten that the issue of placing notices of intents to challenge ist nae a recent occurance. It fell by the wayside, for in that it wast indeed simply a waste of time ast well ast being, upon occasion, cause for unneeded dissension
among the warlords.

For one warlord to place the onus upon another, indeed, placing one of his peers in a position to chose or nae chose to respect the "intent" of another to challenge, shows little regard or respect for his peers. By thine words, it wouldst seem thou wouldst then infer that anna warlord which dinna "respect" this "intent", to be lacking in patience, politeness and courtesy, e'en to infering that shouldst they nae deign to "respect" such "intent", they
wouldst be failing to offer a "noble" gesture.

Ideally, de Clermont, a warlord wouldst issue challenge, properly and publicly when he or she wast prepared to do so. Ideally, de Clermont, a warlord would nae fear to present his or her bona fides before the community. Ideally, a warlord would not infer that by refraining from placing his bona fides upon this ancient cork, he wast seeking nae to embarrass his peers. Honorable warlords hae rarely taken umbrage at finding their names listed, and
few warlords of my acquaintance wouldst consider such ast gloating, lest, of course, the one who didst place their names upon his list of bona fides wast indeed in the habit of gloating.

Jonalyn Starfare
Common as they come.

[DoS Archive]

From: foxxgrrl@aol.com (Foxxgrrl)
Date: 25 Dec 1998 06:37:45 EST

"The rest of your note to me leaves me baffled for I have yet to offer opinion on Drakewyn's pregnancy or anything relating to it. The only opinion I offered was what was asked and that is, as this pile of notes is titled "The Question of Intent." "

My apologies, Morgan. Sid's right...I didn't specifically mean you, as the letter began in response to your comment and then took on greater meaning to apply to others who have written on this corkboard. Sorry for the confusion.

~Ally

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 25 Dec 1998 16:20:44 EST

Ally,

If Madame Silvertree wast so intent upon preventing harm to her unborn, perhaps thee might ponder why, knowing her condition, the Lady didst enter the ring at all, once she became aware she wast carrying a child.

Jona.
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.

[DoS Archive]

From: foxxgrrl@aol.com (Foxxgrrl)
Date: 25 Dec 1998 23:26:13 EST

Personally, I have not seen Drake duel in quite some time. I do admit I have not seen every duel that has taken place, so Drake may have been dueling without my being aware of it...but as far as I knew, she was on vacation.

~Ally

[DoS Archive]

From: andrered@aol.com (Andre Red)
Date: 27 Dec 1998 16:16:11 EST

Baroness.

>"Personally, I think announcing your intent to challenge is an honorable move, though in most cases it shouldn't come as a surprise to the "target"."
>
>That is nice to know. I still think it is a waste of everyone's time. In my opinion, honor has little to do with it.
>

Would you please clairify your statement? I had thought that honor had everything to do with a proper challenge.

Andre Stannius Vermillion