Date: 9/4/97 11:54 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: LdyAja
::wanders up still forming idea in her head::
Fellow DoS members,
Just a thought, new duelers don't read the rules..that has been said over and over. I have seen new duelers come in, attempt to learn how to duel..some of the more conscientious duelers point them in the direction of the rules, but answer no questions these new ones have. We were all new to this at one time. Who answered your questions? Please, think about this.
I've heard complaints about newbies coming to duel, I've even been amoung those complaining. But I thought seriously as to why I was annoyed. I haven't been here long, but long enough to see many things people complain about that could be fixed if they took the time. Are you somehow above this act of kindness?
I try to help out those that come to the arena, who obviously need the direction. Yes, it can be trying at times, but for the sanity of everyone involved with the arena, I believe it's worth the time. Don't you?
Thanks for listening.
~Lady Aja~
~Sister of AJaybird~
~Commoner with not so common thoughts~
Valid thought
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Date: 9/4/97 6:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: KayneRune
Aja, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. It is my personal opinion that the newer duelists, be they new to the -realms- or not, are not treated with the calibur of respect that I feel should be endowed upon them. Although it is hard to discuss this without breaking the dimensional barrier ((OOC barrier)), I will say this: Those who treat the new duelists like scum and who complain about the lack of enjoyment in the rings are choking themselves upon their own pride. I constantly see
interesting people being ignored and/or insulted due to the fact that they are new, via the older duelists, whose experience in the DoS ranges from a month to five years.
This sickens me. Some never even get a chance to participate because they are deemed "unworthy". Just tonight I watched a duelist, whose name I will keep anonymous, be disrespected by EVERYONE. The poor guy was standing there requesting a duel for fifteen minutes or so before being picked up by one new to the room. Although this happens alot, this particular person was a very interesting newer duelist, as opposed to a newer duelists who remain quiet during the match, and who would have been a ball to
duel. I was disgusted with this lack of respect. To make it worse, though all whom he challenged ignored him----IGNORED him. They would not even aknowledge his presence. Am I the only one who sees fault in this?
I personally try and help all who I can, as to avoid conflict between the two groups---but I cannot make all the difference. Others need to -en-courage the newer duelist, not -dis-courage him or her. If my theory holds true, I believe the rings would be a more satisfactory place if everyone was treated equally.....but then again, what do I know?
~Kayne
~Still wondering about the toast..
From: KayneRune
Aja, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. It is my personal opinion that the newer duelists, be they new to the -realms- or not, are not treated with the calibur of respect that I feel should be endowed upon them. Although it is hard to discuss this without breaking the dimensional barrier ((OOC barrier)), I will say this: Those who treat the new duelists like scum and who complain about the lack of enjoyment in the rings are choking themselves upon their own pride. I constantly see
interesting people being ignored and/or insulted due to the fact that they are new, via the older duelists, whose experience in the DoS ranges from a month to five years.
This sickens me. Some never even get a chance to participate because they are deemed "unworthy". Just tonight I watched a duelist, whose name I will keep anonymous, be disrespected by EVERYONE. The poor guy was standing there requesting a duel for fifteen minutes or so before being picked up by one new to the room. Although this happens alot, this particular person was a very interesting newer duelist, as opposed to a newer duelists who remain quiet during the match, and who would have been a ball to
duel. I was disgusted with this lack of respect. To make it worse, though all whom he challenged ignored him----IGNORED him. They would not even aknowledge his presence. Am I the only one who sees fault in this?
I personally try and help all who I can, as to avoid conflict between the two groups---but I cannot make all the difference. Others need to -en-courage the newer duelist, not -dis-courage him or her. If my theory holds true, I believe the rings would be a more satisfactory place if everyone was treated equally.....but then again, what do I know?
~Kayne
~Still wondering about the toast..
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Date: 9/4/97 9:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: DukeUzieI
::smiles::
As always we think alike M'Lady. Same as always folks.....if ya can't adapt to the new your gonna get run over...I was new once and now I am who I am.......be thoughtful and friendly to those that come among us that we do not know....for they could be you...or me...we have all stood there....I find the true problem within this sport is not that it is going downhill.....its that the ones that must set the example have no mind to do so.
Valid also,
~Adonai~
From: DukeUzieI
::smiles::
As always we think alike M'Lady. Same as always folks.....if ya can't adapt to the new your gonna get run over...I was new once and now I am who I am.......be thoughtful and friendly to those that come among us that we do not know....for they could be you...or me...we have all stood there....I find the true problem within this sport is not that it is going downhill.....its that the ones that must set the example have no mind to do so.
Valid also,
~Adonai~
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Date: 9/5/97 4:04 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: EllisaMrgn
Personally, someone sent me to where the rules were, I read them; watched others in the arena, I *paid* attention, rather than *demand* it.. that is what older duelers do not respect about newer ones. Why should I have to baby sit and spoon feed someone? Stop, look, listen, that is all you need to do to learn.
~Ellisa~
From: EllisaMrgn
Personally, someone sent me to where the rules were, I read them; watched others in the arena, I *paid* attention, rather than *demand* it.. that is what older duelers do not respect about newer ones. Why should I have to baby sit and spoon feed someone? Stop, look, listen, that is all you need to do to learn.
~Ellisa~
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Date: 9/5/97 9:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: LdyAja
::sighs::
Collie, sorry if you felt offended. That was never the intention. I do know there are several that take the time to try and teach. Kayne, I have witnessed the same..I stop it if I can.But unlike Dae, I'm not Superman (not meant as insult Dae).
Ellisa, I'm truely sorry you see it as babysitting. But ya know, DoS is becoming more popular and simply pointing out the rules is fine and dandy...but like Kayne pointed out..even if they do that on their own, Everyone still ignores them...So much for stop, look and listen.
I don't know, maybe I'm talking to deaf ears...or maybe simply uncaring ones. I hope I am wrong about that.
~Aja~
From: LdyAja
::sighs::
Collie, sorry if you felt offended. That was never the intention. I do know there are several that take the time to try and teach. Kayne, I have witnessed the same..I stop it if I can.But unlike Dae, I'm not Superman (not meant as insult Dae).
Ellisa, I'm truely sorry you see it as babysitting. But ya know, DoS is becoming more popular and simply pointing out the rules is fine and dandy...but like Kayne pointed out..even if they do that on their own, Everyone still ignores them...So much for stop, look and listen.
I don't know, maybe I'm talking to deaf ears...or maybe simply uncaring ones. I hope I am wrong about that.
~Aja~
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Date: 9/5/97 9:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: KYSdeMorte
::tacks up her two cents worth::
I have seen new duelers calling for duels too, and have not replied to them. I am a commoner..and could duel them, however....I remember clearly getting whipped up on by commoners who knew wha tthey were doing and enjoyed humiliating a new dueler. I swore I would never do that to another. However, I do tell the new ones to come and practice, and then I *show* them how to duel. I explain the mindset and the strategy of the moves. But I will not duel an obvious newbie when it counts...I am not in this for
easy wins.
Kys deMorte
From: KYSdeMorte
::tacks up her two cents worth::
I have seen new duelers calling for duels too, and have not replied to them. I am a commoner..and could duel them, however....I remember clearly getting whipped up on by commoners who knew wha tthey were doing and enjoyed humiliating a new dueler. I swore I would never do that to another. However, I do tell the new ones to come and practice, and then I *show* them how to duel. I explain the mindset and the strategy of the moves. But I will not duel an obvious newbie when it counts...I am not in this for
easy wins.
Kys deMorte
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Date: 9/5/97 11:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: XxLucianxX
I'm in the same position as Lady Ellisa, there. When I became interested in DoS, I went, read the rules carefully, and walked into the arena, sat around a bit watching people, and then just copied them in asking for a duel and the ceremony involved. I will not make a generalization by saying that none of the newer duelists do this, but several come in and ask for a duel, not knowing what they're doing, and I would bet that even though people tell them where to go to read the rules, they do not give
them the attention they deserve. Again, as Ellisa said, the key is *paying* attention to those around you, and not *demanding* it. Forgive me for borrrowing those words, M'Lady.
As to ignoring requests for duels from the newer duelists, again, a vast majority that I have seen do not present themselves in a respectful manner. If someone "requests" a duel with my by telling me they're going to kill me, call me a coward, or whatnot, unless they're one of my friends who does it frequently :
: I will be very upset. I'd bet that there are plenty of new duelists out there that we don't even notice as being "new" because they carry themselves with the proper dignity suited
to our sport and blend in very well.
Long Windedly Yours,
-- Lucian
From: XxLucianxX
I'm in the same position as Lady Ellisa, there. When I became interested in DoS, I went, read the rules carefully, and walked into the arena, sat around a bit watching people, and then just copied them in asking for a duel and the ceremony involved. I will not make a generalization by saying that none of the newer duelists do this, but several come in and ask for a duel, not knowing what they're doing, and I would bet that even though people tell them where to go to read the rules, they do not give
them the attention they deserve. Again, as Ellisa said, the key is *paying* attention to those around you, and not *demanding* it. Forgive me for borrrowing those words, M'Lady.
As to ignoring requests for duels from the newer duelists, again, a vast majority that I have seen do not present themselves in a respectful manner. If someone "requests" a duel with my by telling me they're going to kill me, call me a coward, or whatnot, unless they're one of my friends who does it frequently :
: I will be very upset. I'd bet that there are plenty of new duelists out there that we don't even notice as being "new" because they carry themselves with the proper dignity suitedto our sport and blend in very well.
Long Windedly Yours,
-- Lucian
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Date: 9/5/97 11:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: IainMacKnz
Personally...
As long as someone behaves in a respectful manner, then if they wish my attention, they need but ask. I am not so desperate for companionship that I actively seek newcomers out; nor am I so egotistical that I assume they wish my attention. Therefore, I do a lot of watching and waiting when it comes to those I do not know.
On the other hand, there are those who barely know me who have the gall to make rude noises, and can't be bothered to respond to respectful explanations of my position. As far as I'm concerned, until they learn respect, they can wallow in the deep end of the idiot pool.
There is a difference between being a decent individual, willing to be of assistance, and being a doormat for over-emotional, petulant children.
Iain MacKenzie
Lord Tynsdale
From: IainMacKnz
Personally...
As long as someone behaves in a respectful manner, then if they wish my attention, they need but ask. I am not so desperate for companionship that I actively seek newcomers out; nor am I so egotistical that I assume they wish my attention. Therefore, I do a lot of watching and waiting when it comes to those I do not know.
On the other hand, there are those who barely know me who have the gall to make rude noises, and can't be bothered to respond to respectful explanations of my position. As far as I'm concerned, until they learn respect, they can wallow in the deep end of the idiot pool.
There is a difference between being a decent individual, willing to be of assistance, and being a doormat for over-emotional, petulant children.
Iain MacKenzie
Lord Tynsdale
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Date: 9/5/97 1:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Alyxz
Then too, there's just being tired. I've always been one to welcome new comers. I'm a native of Rhydin, born and raised very near here. I see outsiders wander in everyday, just as I watch my own friends, and family, one by one, leave.
I welcome the outsiders, show them to the inn, teach them the local customs, and the honor that has been passed down among my people since the dawn of our race.
And I brought this attitude with me to the DoS. I watched, and learned. I had no teacher, save only myself. When others come, I try to tell them all I know, and show them where they may learn more, and teach themselves in the fashion that I did.
But I grow tired. I'm tired of kids telling me that I take myself too seriously when I try to explain simple things like honor, respect, and courtesy. I'm tired of kids who haven't the patience to learn, and think that being younger, stronger, and faster will get them what they want.
And I'm tired the fact that younger, faster, and stronger, usually does get them what they want; They don't think they need to learn the rules of this sport, for they do just fine without them. They don't think they need advice.
Those that listen, will hear all I know, and when I run out of knowledge, I will point them towards more. But those that have no time for me, will learn soon enough, the value of patience, and respect.
Alyxz Tydeides Taliesen
Grand Master of the DoS,
Prince of the Fallen Deinite Empire,
Sworn Brother to the House Amon,
Captain of the Lightbringer,
Commander of the GG mercenaries,
Chief of Security, of the Brotherhood of Light,
Father, Friend, and Gentleman.
(I'm not sure why, perhaps simply because my vanity, wounded of late, needed it, but for once, the first time in my memory, I have used my tittles. Forgive me the vanity, just this once ~A)
From: Alyxz
Then too, there's just being tired. I've always been one to welcome new comers. I'm a native of Rhydin, born and raised very near here. I see outsiders wander in everyday, just as I watch my own friends, and family, one by one, leave.
I welcome the outsiders, show them to the inn, teach them the local customs, and the honor that has been passed down among my people since the dawn of our race.
And I brought this attitude with me to the DoS. I watched, and learned. I had no teacher, save only myself. When others come, I try to tell them all I know, and show them where they may learn more, and teach themselves in the fashion that I did.
But I grow tired. I'm tired of kids telling me that I take myself too seriously when I try to explain simple things like honor, respect, and courtesy. I'm tired of kids who haven't the patience to learn, and think that being younger, stronger, and faster will get them what they want.
And I'm tired the fact that younger, faster, and stronger, usually does get them what they want; They don't think they need to learn the rules of this sport, for they do just fine without them. They don't think they need advice.
Those that listen, will hear all I know, and when I run out of knowledge, I will point them towards more. But those that have no time for me, will learn soon enough, the value of patience, and respect.
Alyxz Tydeides Taliesen
Grand Master of the DoS,
Prince of the Fallen Deinite Empire,
Sworn Brother to the House Amon,
Captain of the Lightbringer,
Commander of the GG mercenaries,
Chief of Security, of the Brotherhood of Light,
Father, Friend, and Gentleman.
(I'm not sure why, perhaps simply because my vanity, wounded of late, needed it, but for once, the first time in my memory, I have used my tittles. Forgive me the vanity, just this once ~A)
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Date: 9/5/97 5:36 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: PKardinal
Aja,
I share the same views as you. I, personally, try my best to help out new duelers, but only to make them learn themselves, and not point every little detail out to them. It is hard to do that. And I feel it is the dueler's responsibilty to find out those little loopholes and guidlines on their own. That's half of what all the fun is about... tryin to make it on yer own.
~Phil
P.S.- Kayne... I'm jus wondering how the "toaster" got in *my* pants!!!
From: PKardinal
Aja,
I share the same views as you. I, personally, try my best to help out new duelers, but only to make them learn themselves, and not point every little detail out to them. It is hard to do that. And I feel it is the dueler's responsibilty to find out those little loopholes and guidlines on their own. That's half of what all the fun is about... tryin to make it on yer own.
~Phil
P.S.- Kayne... I'm jus wondering how the "toaster" got in *my* pants!!!
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Date: 9/6/97 8:20 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: Syra
I am new to the DoS arena and in all fairness I must say that it is a place of honor and respect and I hold it as such. I took the time to read the rules before I ever endeavored to have my first official match. There is much to learn, but I have come to believe that watching and experience itself will be the best of teachers, not that I wouldn't invite any and all advice from the most expereinced duelists. I yearn to learn and will take all advice to heart. I am not one to rush into anything without
taking the time to make myself knowledgeable first. I am in no hurry to reach any certain point, for I am still learning and with that in mind I will take the time needed to learn correctly. I would love to get more involved with others, but I am not one to interfere...so instead, I watch and listen alot. With time, I can only hope that I will meet and know more people and may be accepted. DoS is a slow, arduous journey but in my opinion, nothing easy is worthwhile.
In any event, I'm having fun learning and I've never complained yet. I watch, listen and learn. A good friend told me once, if you're not having fun then don't do it. I found his advice sound and live by it. I wish to thank the few who do acknowledge my presence...but I don't expect all to do so. It takes time and patience to form acquaintances and friendships. Respect and honor, above all, is the mainstay of this realm. Learn it....then live it. The rewards are well worth the efforts.
Lady Syra Dracor
One of the "new" ones
From: Syra
I am new to the DoS arena and in all fairness I must say that it is a place of honor and respect and I hold it as such. I took the time to read the rules before I ever endeavored to have my first official match. There is much to learn, but I have come to believe that watching and experience itself will be the best of teachers, not that I wouldn't invite any and all advice from the most expereinced duelists. I yearn to learn and will take all advice to heart. I am not one to rush into anything without
taking the time to make myself knowledgeable first. I am in no hurry to reach any certain point, for I am still learning and with that in mind I will take the time needed to learn correctly. I would love to get more involved with others, but I am not one to interfere...so instead, I watch and listen alot. With time, I can only hope that I will meet and know more people and may be accepted. DoS is a slow, arduous journey but in my opinion, nothing easy is worthwhile.
In any event, I'm having fun learning and I've never complained yet. I watch, listen and learn. A good friend told me once, if you're not having fun then don't do it. I found his advice sound and live by it. I wish to thank the few who do acknowledge my presence...but I don't expect all to do so. It takes time and patience to form acquaintances and friendships. Respect and honor, above all, is the mainstay of this realm. Learn it....then live it. The rewards are well worth the efforts.
Lady Syra Dracor
One of the "new" ones
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Date: 9/8/97 9:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Drakewynx
And now my own two pffenigs worth...
As more than one of our newer duelists will attest, I have plenty of patience and have often been willing to help those new to the duels. I -prefer- to offer that assistance during the off-dueling nights, but admittedly I am not around the Arena quite as often as I used to be.
I only have two real complaints. The first is with a variety of duelist known as the "Sandbagger".
I have personally known more than a few so-called "new" duelists who were actually very experienced duelers who's names were not known here in the Arena. In fact, when I first came to the Arena, I was thought to be one of these types of people. I have also seen other duelists who are new faces, but are more than willing to admit to the fact that they have received training from more experienced duelers.
My other complaint is with those who act like they know the rules, receive an acceptance on their duel request, then turn around and waste both the duelist's and the RDI's time by refusing to admit to the fact that they don't know how to duel until well after the duel was to commence.
Admitedly, this is fairly rare, but I'm sure that this has happened to many of us.
I am currently determining whether or not to offer instruction in the duels, as I am unwilling to bring any further risk to my unborn child and may discontinue dueling for a short time soon.
If there are any willing to assist me in this, or would seek instruction from a WarLady who freely admits to not being one of the best to ever duel, please write me or respond here.
The Grand Duchess, Lady Drakewyn Alabaster the Tenth.
From: Drakewynx
And now my own two pffenigs worth...
As more than one of our newer duelists will attest, I have plenty of patience and have often been willing to help those new to the duels. I -prefer- to offer that assistance during the off-dueling nights, but admittedly I am not around the Arena quite as often as I used to be.
I only have two real complaints. The first is with a variety of duelist known as the "Sandbagger".
I have personally known more than a few so-called "new" duelists who were actually very experienced duelers who's names were not known here in the Arena. In fact, when I first came to the Arena, I was thought to be one of these types of people. I have also seen other duelists who are new faces, but are more than willing to admit to the fact that they have received training from more experienced duelers.
My other complaint is with those who act like they know the rules, receive an acceptance on their duel request, then turn around and waste both the duelist's and the RDI's time by refusing to admit to the fact that they don't know how to duel until well after the duel was to commence.
Admitedly, this is fairly rare, but I'm sure that this has happened to many of us.
I am currently determining whether or not to offer instruction in the duels, as I am unwilling to bring any further risk to my unborn child and may discontinue dueling for a short time soon.
If there are any willing to assist me in this, or would seek instruction from a WarLady who freely admits to not being one of the best to ever duel, please write me or respond here.
The Grand Duchess, Lady Drakewyn Alabaster the Tenth.
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Date: 9/9/97 5:36 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: JolaFici
Another angle:
Rather than pointing a new duelist to the rules of DoS, I usually try to talk to them privately ((IM)) or engage them in some kind of conversation ((role play)) and point them to the Etiquette Guides. ((ffgf etiquette)) From my perspective, DoS is more than just learning the rules for dueling, and having a grasp of simple conversation and etiquette seems to help out newbies.
Once they know how to behave, they usually turn out pretty well.
... Jola Fici ....
Wife of Ulath Fici, DarkAxe.
No other titles, yet.
From: JolaFici
Another angle:
Rather than pointing a new duelist to the rules of DoS, I usually try to talk to them privately ((IM)) or engage them in some kind of conversation ((role play)) and point them to the Etiquette Guides. ((ffgf etiquette)) From my perspective, DoS is more than just learning the rules for dueling, and having a grasp of simple conversation and etiquette seems to help out newbies.
Once they know how to behave, they usually turn out pretty well.
... Jola Fici ....
Wife of Ulath Fici, DarkAxe.
No other titles, yet.
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Date: 9/9/97 3:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: Shadowrun
Warlady Drakewyn,
Having read your statement, I would be interested in receiving instruction in the duels from you.
I am most interested in your theory of the duels, as might be articulated through correspondence. You see, I am recovering from a bit of an illness, and cannot promise overly spirited attendance at sparring sessions in the rings.
Sincerely,
Fandral Kurgan
From: Shadowrun
Warlady Drakewyn,
Having read your statement, I would be interested in receiving instruction in the duels from you.
I am most interested in your theory of the duels, as might be articulated through correspondence. You see, I am recovering from a bit of an illness, and cannot promise overly spirited attendance at sparring sessions in the rings.
Sincerely,
Fandral Kurgan