From: jehannehealer@aol.com (Jehanne Healer)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 14:28:15 EDT
One can easily acquire the rank of warlord and defeat fifteen peers without being worthy to fight a practice dummy, let alone whoever the current overlord is. I'm living proof.
~JS
Results of the Overlord Challenge (Face vs. Blindfold Proxy)
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:04:16 EDT
Del,
I have no idea what individiual members of the DoS value. I know what I value and have stated it. Personally I think the Test of Worthiness is not an honorable thing.
What the staff was thinking when the rule was implemented I do not know, nor do I greatly care. Wrong decisions are made daily by lots of people.
If people are insulted by what I have said or believe that is unfortunate but does not alter what I believe. Less you think I am wavering on this I say again. Hiding behind the Test of Worthiness is an act of cowardice.
It is also an aspect of cronyism at its worse when some people are hit with the Test and others are not.
Sgt. Sneggle
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:04:16 EDT
Del,
I have no idea what individiual members of the DoS value. I know what I value and have stated it. Personally I think the Test of Worthiness is not an honorable thing.
What the staff was thinking when the rule was implemented I do not know, nor do I greatly care. Wrong decisions are made daily by lots of people.
If people are insulted by what I have said or believe that is unfortunate but does not alter what I believe. Less you think I am wavering on this I say again. Hiding behind the Test of Worthiness is an act of cowardice.
It is also an aspect of cronyism at its worse when some people are hit with the Test and others are not.
Sgt. Sneggle
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:13:15 EDT
Collie,
<< I wonder, Deluthan, if this means Sneggle thinks all are worthy to wear the crown of Overlord.
>>
Yes I do if they have earned the right.
Since were talking about worthiness, consider the free shot that someone gets at the Overlord at the end of the WLT. The person then has a chance for an unencumbered shot at the Overlord. Various people's concept of worthiness does not even enter into it. Is that a bad rule? A good rule? The way it is? What?
Sgt. Sneggle
The person who gets that shot could be the worst person in the DoS under popular opinion yet he/she could become Overlord.
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:13:15 EDT
Collie,
<< I wonder, Deluthan, if this means Sneggle thinks all are worthy to wear the crown of Overlord.
>>
Yes I do if they have earned the right.
Since were talking about worthiness, consider the free shot that someone gets at the Overlord at the end of the WLT. The person then has a chance for an unencumbered shot at the Overlord. Various people's concept of worthiness does not even enter into it. Is that a bad rule? A good rule? The way it is? What?
Sgt. Sneggle
The person who gets that shot could be the worst person in the DoS under popular opinion yet he/she could become Overlord.
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:15:49 EDT
Del,
Please do not presume to know what I think. If you had to make a list who would be these honorless cowards you speak of?
Sgt. Sneggle
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:15:49 EDT
Del,
Please do not presume to know what I think. If you had to make a list who would be these honorless cowards you speak of?
Sgt. Sneggle
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:17:51 EDT
Arane,
I did not speak for Cletus I said ...."I don't believe...."
Sgt. Sneggle
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:17:51 EDT
Arane,
I did not speak for Cletus I said ...."I don't believe...."
Sgt. Sneggle
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:22:04 EDT
Cas,
<< And each new generation of duelists fails to grasp the politics and community factor of the Duel of Swords >>
So your agreeing that the Test of Worthiness is based on politics and some sort of fuzzily defined community factor? Would that factor be the "haves" and "have nots?"
I truly never thought that you would agree with me on anything but I was wrong,
Sgt. Sneggle
Date: 19 Oct 2002 19:22:04 EDT
Cas,
<< And each new generation of duelists fails to grasp the politics and community factor of the Duel of Swords >>
So your agreeing that the Test of Worthiness is based on politics and some sort of fuzzily defined community factor? Would that factor be the "haves" and "have nots?"
I truly never thought that you would agree with me on anything but I was wrong,
Sgt. Sneggle
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 21:11:52 EDT
Lorance,
Siera Redwin, Gnimish Gninoi, Athlstan, Duke Leto Covington, Kalamere Ar'Din, Dalamar Ar'Daumon, Condextint Montoya, Unagi Miyamoto, Avery Shiv Blade, Taylara Locklorn Tyree, Lucian, Jaycynda Ashleana, Seamus Mac Donnaugh, and Sartan. All are past Overlords who at some point utilized the Test of Worthiness against a challenger, according to recorded history. Were they all acting like cowards?
It is called a Test of Worthiness. Worthiness, Lorance. If the Overlord doesn't think a challenger has proven him or herself worthy of candidacy for the crown, the Test is there for the Overlord to use. It is not called a Test of Honor--it is not a test that the Overlord fails by shrinking toward using the option.
You obviously feel that fifteen peer wins is enough to prove your worth; I am sure there are many who are not so convinced by such a list. How you measure worthiness is an individual choice. To say that you feel that providing fifteen peer wins is worthy enough is your expressing an opinion, which is fine. To say that and that anyone who doesn't feel the same way and who chooses to utilize the Test of Worthiness is a coward, is an insult to
many a person's character.
I grant that there may be times when the Test of Worthiness is not used with its intended purpose--when the Overlord is scared of a challenger, or simply doesn't like the challenger, even though the Overlord feels strongly that the challenger has proven his or her worth. Such instances are skeptical to cowardice or lack of honor. However, in most of these cases very few individuals other than the Overlord know to what purpose the Test was executed,
and when an uninformed someone begins accusing the Overlord of cowardice or lack of honor only comments poorly on the accusor.
I believe that the intercession-free prize offered in the Warlord Tournament is enough to prove a challenger's worth, and obviously the Duel of Swords staff who first offered the prize felt that way, also. Not only to defeat your peers in perhaps the most competitive atmosphere found at any time in the Arena, but also to do so duel after duel, requires a great deal of skill and endurance. But, there may be some who feel that even this is not
enough, that the only way to prove yourself as a worthy challenger is to pass a Test of Worthiness. Even they are entitled to their opinion, even if they cannot act upon it, and I would not consider them cowards, or honorless.
Deluthan
Date: 19 Oct 2002 21:11:52 EDT
Lorance,
Siera Redwin, Gnimish Gninoi, Athlstan, Duke Leto Covington, Kalamere Ar'Din, Dalamar Ar'Daumon, Condextint Montoya, Unagi Miyamoto, Avery Shiv Blade, Taylara Locklorn Tyree, Lucian, Jaycynda Ashleana, Seamus Mac Donnaugh, and Sartan. All are past Overlords who at some point utilized the Test of Worthiness against a challenger, according to recorded history. Were they all acting like cowards?
It is called a Test of Worthiness. Worthiness, Lorance. If the Overlord doesn't think a challenger has proven him or herself worthy of candidacy for the crown, the Test is there for the Overlord to use. It is not called a Test of Honor--it is not a test that the Overlord fails by shrinking toward using the option.
You obviously feel that fifteen peer wins is enough to prove your worth; I am sure there are many who are not so convinced by such a list. How you measure worthiness is an individual choice. To say that you feel that providing fifteen peer wins is worthy enough is your expressing an opinion, which is fine. To say that and that anyone who doesn't feel the same way and who chooses to utilize the Test of Worthiness is a coward, is an insult to
many a person's character.
I grant that there may be times when the Test of Worthiness is not used with its intended purpose--when the Overlord is scared of a challenger, or simply doesn't like the challenger, even though the Overlord feels strongly that the challenger has proven his or her worth. Such instances are skeptical to cowardice or lack of honor. However, in most of these cases very few individuals other than the Overlord know to what purpose the Test was executed,
and when an uninformed someone begins accusing the Overlord of cowardice or lack of honor only comments poorly on the accusor.
I believe that the intercession-free prize offered in the Warlord Tournament is enough to prove a challenger's worth, and obviously the Duel of Swords staff who first offered the prize felt that way, also. Not only to defeat your peers in perhaps the most competitive atmosphere found at any time in the Arena, but also to do so duel after duel, requires a great deal of skill and endurance. But, there may be some who feel that even this is not
enough, that the only way to prove yourself as a worthy challenger is to pass a Test of Worthiness. Even they are entitled to their opinion, even if they cannot act upon it, and I would not consider them cowards, or honorless.
Deluthan
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 21:47:21 EDT
Del,
I do not agree with you or your arguments on this issue. I do sincerely believe that the use of the Test of Worthiness is cowardice. I further believe that the Test is used almost primarily against unpopular challengers. When it is used so it is a matter of honor being defeated and cowardice exhibited.
Sgt. Sneggle
Date: 19 Oct 2002 21:47:21 EDT
Del,
I do not agree with you or your arguments on this issue. I do sincerely believe that the use of the Test of Worthiness is cowardice. I further believe that the Test is used almost primarily against unpopular challengers. When it is used so it is a matter of honor being defeated and cowardice exhibited.
Sgt. Sneggle
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 23:59:47 EDT
You sound like a broken record, Lorance. I may be able to respect your opinions if you at least elaborated on them, but right now you just sound stubborn.
Del
Date: 19 Oct 2002 23:59:47 EDT
You sound like a broken record, Lorance. I may be able to respect your opinions if you at least elaborated on them, but right now you just sound stubborn.
Del
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From: cassiusmaxim@aol.com (Cassius Maxim)
Date: 20 Oct 2002 00:19:07 EDT
"Del, I do not agree with you or your arguments on this issue. I do sincerely
believe that the use of the Test of Worthiness is cowardice. I further
believe that the Test is used almost primarily against unpopular challengers."
Oftentimes, Lorance, there is a reason they are unpopular.
Seems to me that you don't like the fact that you fall in this camp. Well, life sucks, eh?
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 20 Oct 2002 00:19:07 EDT
"Del, I do not agree with you or your arguments on this issue. I do sincerely
believe that the use of the Test of Worthiness is cowardice. I further
believe that the Test is used almost primarily against unpopular challengers."
Oftentimes, Lorance, there is a reason they are unpopular.
Seems to me that you don't like the fact that you fall in this camp. Well, life sucks, eh?
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 20 Oct 2002 00:39:37 EDT
>>Please do not presume to know what I think. If you had to make a list who would be these honorless cowards you speak of?
<<
Sneggle,
Does this mean only you are allowed to express your opinions and others are not?
>>Yes I do if they have earned the right. <<
So simply earning the title of Warlord, getting 15 peer wins and challenging is enough? I'm sorry... that's like saying because Hadrian built a wall, the Scots should have never crossed it.
>>Since were talking about worthiness, consider the free shot that someone gets at the Overlord at the end of the WLT. <<
Worthy or not, that's a prize in a tournament. You are mixing apples and oranges.
>>It is called a Test of Worthiness. Worthiness, Lorance. If the Overlord doesn't think a challenger has proven him or herself worthy of candidacy for the crown, the Test is there for the Overlord to use. It is not called a Test of Honor--it is not a test that the Overlord fails by shrinking toward using the option.<<
Presicely, Del, thank you!
Date: 20 Oct 2002 00:39:37 EDT
>>Please do not presume to know what I think. If you had to make a list who would be these honorless cowards you speak of?
<<
Sneggle,
Does this mean only you are allowed to express your opinions and others are not?
>>Yes I do if they have earned the right. <<
So simply earning the title of Warlord, getting 15 peer wins and challenging is enough? I'm sorry... that's like saying because Hadrian built a wall, the Scots should have never crossed it.
>>Since were talking about worthiness, consider the free shot that someone gets at the Overlord at the end of the WLT. <<
Worthy or not, that's a prize in a tournament. You are mixing apples and oranges.
>>It is called a Test of Worthiness. Worthiness, Lorance. If the Overlord doesn't think a challenger has proven him or herself worthy of candidacy for the crown, the Test is there for the Overlord to use. It is not called a Test of Honor--it is not a test that the Overlord fails by shrinking toward using the option.<<
Presicely, Del, thank you!
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 20 Oct 2002 01:44:04 EDT
Lorance,
You think it is dishonorable to have an Overlord use the test, even though it is his right, do you not? Would you not do what you can to stop that Overlord from doing what is "dishonorable?" If yes, then keep in mind you would be fighting someone else's fight, which is why I'm surprised you're so staunch on this issue, since you let me stand in for you when you challenged Cas and Dalamar stepped in for him. Why is it unacceptable to have one
side have someone step in for him but it's acceptable for the other side?
You seem to be under this misconception that they are worthy just because the rules say they have done enough. Yes, sometimes it is a popularity contest, but that's the glory of the duels; the rules are set up so you can beat someone at his own game - get someone else to stand in for you to duel against an unpopular champion/overlord.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 20 Oct 2002 01:44:04 EDT
Lorance,
You think it is dishonorable to have an Overlord use the test, even though it is his right, do you not? Would you not do what you can to stop that Overlord from doing what is "dishonorable?" If yes, then keep in mind you would be fighting someone else's fight, which is why I'm surprised you're so staunch on this issue, since you let me stand in for you when you challenged Cas and Dalamar stepped in for him. Why is it unacceptable to have one
side have someone step in for him but it's acceptable for the other side?
You seem to be under this misconception that they are worthy just because the rules say they have done enough. Yes, sometimes it is a popularity contest, but that's the glory of the duels; the rules are set up so you can beat someone at his own game - get someone else to stand in for you to duel against an unpopular champion/overlord.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 20 Oct 2002 14:10:51 EDT
Collie,
<<
Sneggle,
Does this mean only you are allowed to express your opinions and others are not? >> Not at all, I was speaking to Del about a remark he made which stated I thought a particular way. Indeed the boards exist for all to comment on topics that interest them.
<<
So simply earning the title of Warlord, getting 15 peer wins and challenging is enough? I'm sorry... that's like saying because Hadrian built a wall, the Scots should have never crossed it. >> The rules of this game set forth the requirements to challenge that is the way it is.
As far as the Overlord using the Test of Worthiness nothing has changed my opinion that it is cowardice and cronyism.
Date: 20 Oct 2002 14:10:51 EDT
Collie,
<<
Sneggle,
Does this mean only you are allowed to express your opinions and others are not? >> Not at all, I was speaking to Del about a remark he made which stated I thought a particular way. Indeed the boards exist for all to comment on topics that interest them.
<<
So simply earning the title of Warlord, getting 15 peer wins and challenging is enough? I'm sorry... that's like saying because Hadrian built a wall, the Scots should have never crossed it. >> The rules of this game set forth the requirements to challenge that is the way it is.
As far as the Overlord using the Test of Worthiness nothing has changed my opinion that it is cowardice and cronyism.
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From: sgtsneggle@aol.com (SgtSneggle)
Date: 20 Oct 2002 14:21:51 EDT
Var,
I reacted to what I perceived to be a slap in the face from Dalamar and Cas. I did and do appreciate the fact that you did fight for me nothing can change that.
If it were to happen again, I would not allow anyone to step in for me if it was in my power to prevent it from happening.
I guess seeing the way Face was treated in all this crystalized my feelings on the subject and my position has hardened to what it is.
Sgt. Sneggle
Date: 20 Oct 2002 14:21:51 EDT
Var,
I reacted to what I perceived to be a slap in the face from Dalamar and Cas. I did and do appreciate the fact that you did fight for me nothing can change that.
If it were to happen again, I would not allow anyone to step in for me if it was in my power to prevent it from happening.
I guess seeing the way Face was treated in all this crystalized my feelings on the subject and my position has hardened to what it is.
Sgt. Sneggle
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From: averyshivblade@aol.com (Avery Shiv Blade)
Date: 21 Oct 2002 04:15:12 EDT
I left this venue a while back, so many of the newer faces, if there are some might not know me. Some of the older might have forgotten. I wondered off to other areas to earn my living, and have since retired from them too.
When I left this area I was the Overlord, among other things. I sure as hell tested people.
Why?
Because I was a coward? I doubt it.
Because I was afraid of losing? Not likely.
Simply put, it's because they were inferior to me. All that challenged were. All that didn't challenge were too, but then again that was my opinion.
Of course the title alone says that all below you are inferior. Lets face it, that's a joke. There have only been a handful of Overlords in history that have held the title with some sense of power. Where, people honestly felt that they would stay for a long time, and wanted nothing more than to have their chance to beat the best.
Granted I don't know half the people here, but I'll go out on a limb and say they don't come close to a Jeff, or a Dal, or sure as hell me.
Give any yahoo time and they can come up with the wins. You could win one percent of your duels, and still get fifteen. The great fighters are the ones that beat you time and time again. Or someone like Ajay, who never had the best of records, but kicked your ass in the important ones.
Yeah I tested. Only because the person coming against me wasn't good enough to beat me. They didn't deserve to face me. And in Damien's case I just hated him, and wanted to make his life hell. While I never gave him credit here in my youth, in later days I did.
Anyway, I tested, and I aint a coward is my point.
If you think I am, look around. My picture is on every wall, and in every book. I left when I had nothing left to prove, so you might want to rethink your opinion. Cause calling me a coward is like saying Cas has skills with women.
Avery Shiv Blade
Date: 21 Oct 2002 04:15:12 EDT
I left this venue a while back, so many of the newer faces, if there are some might not know me. Some of the older might have forgotten. I wondered off to other areas to earn my living, and have since retired from them too.
When I left this area I was the Overlord, among other things. I sure as hell tested people.
Why?
Because I was a coward? I doubt it.
Because I was afraid of losing? Not likely.
Simply put, it's because they were inferior to me. All that challenged were. All that didn't challenge were too, but then again that was my opinion.
Of course the title alone says that all below you are inferior. Lets face it, that's a joke. There have only been a handful of Overlords in history that have held the title with some sense of power. Where, people honestly felt that they would stay for a long time, and wanted nothing more than to have their chance to beat the best.
Granted I don't know half the people here, but I'll go out on a limb and say they don't come close to a Jeff, or a Dal, or sure as hell me.
Give any yahoo time and they can come up with the wins. You could win one percent of your duels, and still get fifteen. The great fighters are the ones that beat you time and time again. Or someone like Ajay, who never had the best of records, but kicked your ass in the important ones.
Yeah I tested. Only because the person coming against me wasn't good enough to beat me. They didn't deserve to face me. And in Damien's case I just hated him, and wanted to make his life hell. While I never gave him credit here in my youth, in later days I did.
Anyway, I tested, and I aint a coward is my point.
If you think I am, look around. My picture is on every wall, and in every book. I left when I had nothing left to prove, so you might want to rethink your opinion. Cause calling me a coward is like saying Cas has skills with women.
Avery Shiv Blade