((*The OOC Thread/Guestbook))

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/4/1999 12:00 AM Central Daylight Time
From: LordRannos

I'd like to make an OOC comment about mods...

So here goes..... (A few of you may remember this one..)

Let's say you had a Glass dueler with no experience... Someone like Bobcat Goldthwait. And you pitted him up against and experienced and skilled Emerald... Let's say Bruce Lee.

It would be reasonable to think that Bruce would certainly be able to defeat Bob, right?.. Why?...

Because Bruce has experience and skill that are far, far superior to Bob.

Would you tell Bruce to flail and twitch like an idiot just so Bob could have a "fair" shot at beating him? I certainly wouldn't. Bruce earned those skills and experience that make him the master that he is(was).

Why do we have feints and fancies?... To reflect the increased skill and experience a dueler gets as they progress in rank, i.e. win duels.

Every time you step into the ring, just as in real life, you are expected to do your best. To do anything less diminishes what you were trying to accomplish in the first place.

I will say, however, that I think Emeralds probably shouldn't duel Glass duelers. Especially not newcomers. It's not worth the headache.... (as Dalamar learned)

::goes back to his self-imposed exile::

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/4/1999 5:54 AM Central Daylight Time
From: DalamarMaj

::he reads the post and can't help but laugh::Some people will never know just how true those words are.::he returns to his vacation::

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/4/1999 10:32 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Roland Sal

The only problem with saying that mods reflect skill is this:

What if it was Bruce Lee that was the glass and Bobcat Goldthwait was the Emerald? Bobcat, if he's ever heard of the legendary Lee, would probably mod the poor sucker to death. And in a game where you score at least an advantage nearly every time you use a mod, that really sucks.

The player of:




R

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/4/1999 11:46 PM Central Daylight Time
From: LordRannos

>What if it was Bruce Lee that was the glass and Bobcat Goldthwait was the
>Emerald? Bobcat, if he's ever heard of the legendary Lee, would probably mod
>the poor sucker to death. And in a game where you score at least an
>advantage nearly every time you use a mod, that really sucks.

Roland,
I was trying to make a real-life analogy to reflect what feints and fancies represent in DoF. When you reverse Bob and Bruce I think you miss my point.

When I step into the ring, I expect my opponent to fight to the best of their ability. And if they're of a higher rank, then I know that they have mods that reflect their greater skill and experience. And I expect them to use them.

Defeating someone despite their mods should be the goal. Defeating someone because they "came down to your rank" is like them saying "I let you win".

I don't want someone to let me win. I want to beat them when they are at their best, mods and all. I want to say, "I'm a Glass and you're an Emerald and I beat you anyway!"

The challenge is to win despite the mods. That is what is truly fair and honorable.

Rannos' mun

P.S. It should be standard Outback ettiquette that Emeralds not take duels with Glass and avoid this whole mess in the first place.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/5/1999 1:07 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Roland Sal

"Roland,
I was trying to make a real-life analogy to reflect what feints and fancies represent in DoF. When you reverse Bob and Bruce I think you miss my point.

When I step into the ring, I expect my opponent to fight to the best of their ability. And if they're of a higher rank, then I know that they have mods that reflect their greater skill and experience. And I expect them to use them.

Defeating someone despite their mods should be the goal. Defeating someone because they "came down to your rank" is like them saying "I let you win".

I don't want someone to let me win. I want to beat them when they are at their best, mods and all. I want to say, "I'm a Glass and you're an Emerald and I beat you anyway!"

The challenge is to win despite the mods. That is what is truly fair and honorable."

I didn't miss any point. I was offering what I believe the problem was with that assumption.

Not everyone is an Emerald in the DoF. There are characters who are Masters of Unarmed combat, yet don't have the rank or mods in the DoF to prove it.

So when Bruce Lee comes in to fight your average Joe, who happens to be an Emerald, then poor Bruce is left to cope with the fact that he has no mods to reflect his well-known skill, while someone who merely "bashes him ded" is sitting there dancing circles around him.

I suggested earlier that mods ARE an in-character thing. Since the caller obviously recognizes it when a brawler fancies or feints. It might not be refered to as such, but it is recognized in an in-character manner when the scores are tallied.

I could do the same sidestep twice but get different scores each time since I ran out fancies. Then the only in-character assumption left would be that I was going easy on the person simply because of their rank.

Which is never the case with Rol. He will brawl his heart out, mods or no. I think it takes the fun out of it when you are fancied or feinted every other round and have no way of fighting back.

Just because someone comes down to your rank doesn't mean they went easy on you. It just means they didn't want to overflow you with a pointless amount of mods just because they can.

That is honorable and fair.

PS: To date, I have never seen a Glass defeat an Emerald who used all of his mods.

The player of:





R

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/5/1999 8:23 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Drakewyn I

Hey Rol... I'll let you in on a little secret.

I saw a glass who beat one of the Opals so quick, he didn't have time to use all his mods, though he did use a few of them.
It can be done, it's just brutally difficult.

Drake's boss, who currently works for Drake... odd, isn't it?

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/5/1999 10:45 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Deuce Mack

::flails:: Hey, guys? This was part of the reason I asked my question in the first place. I did it to see if there was any RL backup to this idea, but even if not, we can use it anyway.

So... Let's say DoF is sort of its own form of anything-goes martial arts (Ranma anyone?). For ease of figuring this out as far as how this relates to the RL belts of various fighting styles, I'll put it this way for now.. change the colors if you want, but the idea is the same.

Glass = White Belt
Jade = Yellow
Ruby = Orange
Sapphire = Blue (Fitting!)
Emerald = Brown
Opal = Brown w/benefits
Diamond = Black

So Bruce Lee gets warped from the set of "Enter The Dragon" and winds up here. He's still gotta prove himself on this world, so even though he could kick the ass of just about anyone he saw, poor Bruce still starts as a Glass. Doesn't mean he can't go nuts on his opponent, just that it won't count for points.

Meanwhile, Bobcat Goldthwait, who happened on in two years previous, managed to earn that Emerald. Despite that, it's obvious Bruce would kick his ass in a dark alley or anywhere else, and might easily kick his ass while losing a duel with him. But Bobcat earned the right to score with those flailing idiot dodge-'n'-swings.

That's why I asked if there were rules in RL competition forbidding a blue belt from scoring with black belt moves. Even if not, that could be assumed to be the rule here. And if Bruce was the Emerald, and Bobcat the Glass, Bruce could control himself and not use the really vicious stuff in order to give Bobcat a fighting chance and, in turn, make the whole experience more fun and less of a foregone conclusion. Everyone knows if Bruce tried, Mr.
Comedian would be meat, but isn't it more entertaining to see the Emerald say (in essence), "I can whip you without trying"?

Spiffy

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/8/1999 10:00 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Kretoo

<<P.S. It should be standard Outback ettiquette that Emeralds not take duels with Glass and avoid this whole mess in the first place.>>When I was first dueling, I dueled regularly with a past-and-future-Diamond. He played without mods--not because he was trying to let me win--but because he was attempting to encourage me and let me enjoy the sport, not just beat the crap out of me because he could. I learned a lot dueling with someone far above my skill level that I would not have learned from another glass. I also learned what sportsmanship was about from this person.Take what you will from that.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/8/1999 1:24 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Roland Sal

Exactly what most of us, those that don't use mods on the lower ranks, are shooting for.

Let's face it. The Outback doesn't have much in way of numbers. Which decreases the number of glasses actually dueling on one night. By modding people new to the forum we're just going in a cycle. Glass duels once, gets beaten horribly, gives up with the thought that the game is too hard.

I mean, you can't expect someone who is new to this entire scene to march in and whoop someone who uses his mods freely. It would take someone with experience and first hand knowledge of the mod's effects and the matrix... and even then it is tough.

Ck

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/8/1999 9:45 PM Central Daylight Time
From: DalamarMaj

Not all true. My first night in the Outback, I was 2-0. One Glass and one Ruby. The next several days I dueled, I beat an Opal and an Emerald and several of the other ranks. I let them all use there mods as much as they wanted to. I still did good even though I had never been in Fists before. You don't need experence and a compleate matrix when you duel the higher ranks, you just need to out think your opponent. If you can't ohwell, try again. If you can, Good for you. Why complain just because you loose? Who cares if you use your mods. You earned them. If you want your opponent to duel without them, let them know. Don't just expect them to go easy on you because you are new.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/8/1999 11:56 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Goldglo

I'll stick my thoughts (briefly) in on this subject. When I fight with Glo, he'll go by the Diamond rules (one more modifier than his opponent) but I will rarely, rarely ever use one if my opponent is a glass. I'm not saying I never do it, but I don't make it a habit. Another character of mine won't ever use them, because I play him that way. Modifiers are all fine and good, they add an extra element to the game
which is cool. But, power is power and like most power this type can be abused. What's the fun (or challenge) in an Emerald busting out five or six modifiers on a glass? Some glasses like it because they feel it teaches them to adapt to a more advanced level of fighting. Others believe it's unfair because they can be quickly overwhelmed by a flurry of fancied or feinted moves. Sure, it's fairly easy to sit back and fancy this and feint that and
beat up on a Glass or Jade or even a Ruby without a whole lot of trouble, simply because you can outmaneuver them. But because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.
Personally, I don't see the point in pumping out all or even half of my modifiers. Yes, I earned them; yes, every other Emerald and Sapphire and Ruby and Jade did too. So why hold back? Personal choice. Folks can be beaten even when they use a lot of their modifiers; it can be done but it's quite difficult and rare and nearly impossible for a newcomer (by that I mean someone in their first few weeks). I understand why people who don't hold
back do so, I just don't happen to agree or follow the same logic as they do.
As far as what Rann's player said, about Emerald not being allowed to fight folks of Glass rank, I don't agree. Saying X cannot fight Y just doesn't seem fair. I'll quote this line:
"Defeating someone despite their mods should be the goal. Defeating someone because they "came down to your rank" is like them saying "I let you win"."
Again, I disagree. Modifiers or no, I fight my damnedest every match. I don't need to use everything in my arsenal to do that…and sometimes I have to fight that much harder to win without 'em. But the other side of the coin is that if they do fight, the Glass risks facing a ton of modifiers that he or she may not be ready to deal with. If a person (of any rank) asks that their match with me will be without modifiers, I will happily agree. To
me, a no modifier match is greater fun than one filled with them. Again, that's personal preference. I do enjoy landing the fancy dodge as much as the next guy (or gal) but making the effort 6 times in one match, well, it ain't for me. My advice? If you're a Glass, or Jade, or whatever, work it out with your opponent on if you want to use modifiers or not. Sometimes people will break their word (I've seen it happen) but if your opponent has
integrity, they *should* keep their word.
And I'd be real interested to hear the answer to Goon's original question about the blue/black belt scenario.

--Matt

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/9/1999 1:34 AM Central Daylight Time
From: AndrewFrcr

Ok, first of all, I love Spif's idea...

I take a Karate called Cuong Nhu (pronounced Koong No). It's a mixture of martial arts including Judo (hard style), Juditsu (don't know how to spell it, hard style), Wing Chung (soft style). Anyway, it's a mixture of the hard and soft styles of karates. At the beginning of each class, we go through our formal bowing and such, then we do warmups. After the warmups, or you can include them in the warmups are different moves. Now, everyone starts
at the same level (white belt) then every 30 or 40 of each move the higher belts do their advanced move of their belt and so on. When everyone splits off into groups, sometimes people who are just a bit higher than the white belts are mixed but only learn (or review for the higher rankers) at the lower rank. The white belts don't learn the higher ranking moves because they haven't even learned the main moves yet! The higher rankers join in
and don't argue (especially because you have to do pushups if you do), plus it's practice.
The belts and jewels of DoF are exactly the same, except some people don't see it that way. Andrew doesn't use mods on glasses at all. Or at least, not since July 18th For one, the control of my character comes from my feelings on the situation, not Andrew's, which isn't really true roleplaying, I admit, but I put some limits on Andrew Forcer. I play him like I would want to be played back by another character. For instance... if Andrew
fought JolaSavage (glass) in DoF, he would not use mods at all. But in DoS, Andrew would not be able to use fancies as Jola would not be able to use them in DoF. But Andrew is fighting as if he were fighting himself. He would not want to slam a fancy on a glass and he would not want to be slammed by one in DoS. (As some know, Andrew's the Emperor of Commoners...)
Now, as black belt (pun intended ::smiles to Spiffy::), Andrew does not use mods on a Jade unless he is behind by 3 points. That falls under my rules. Then it goes to Ruby the same way, except behind by 2 points then Sapphire, 1 point and Emerald, let's splurge That's just the way I fight with Andrew, it's what I consider fair and I'm sure some other probably do, too. Those are my ideas, play with them if ya'd like.

Black Belt in DoF
AU

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/17/1999 12:32 AM Central Daylight Time
From: SpifyMcBng

I probably should have posted one of these long ago, but better late than never, I guess. I'm sure a few of you are pretty hacked off at me that the SL isn't over yet, and I'm sorry. I just wanted to take this chance to bring everyone up to date on a few things.

First thing is the Opals, real and not-so-real. Right now, the only real one being held and used by someone in the Outback is the Yellow, Tarl's. Glo still has ShadoWeaver, but is off in space (if you've read this, I'm sure you've seen the posts), and the HoloGlo's is, obviously, a HoloOpal. The other three are fake.

This is the point of bringing it up... the way I've learned it to be, the known powers, IC, are the ones that are listed in the rules. For anyone who was frustrated because they couldn't RP the Opal powers at all- you can! The fakes are capable of performing what's on that list. Where the thought of them being fake might arise is if a skilled magic-user knows there is more to the real thing than the one they have. They don't simply sit there and
glitter, they DO perform.

Next.. I just posted another bit of story. I know I've spoken to some of you before about getting involved, and I know some of you have. I thank you for that, and I know it's been my bad on every end of those attempts to keep things flowing. Believe it or not (and I don't blame you if not), I have been trying to find a way to get a lot of people involved.

That's what this newest post is for. Maybe it's not completely true in RL, but I'm sure it is for RhyDin.. if you're not someone with access to "darker" info, you know someone who is, or you know someone who knows someone.

In any case, there is a general, low-key request going out for someone to bring back "the gauntlet of legend which resides in or around the land of Gothmorda." (No, I don't know exactly where it is, but I'm pretty sure it's at least ON RhyDin, so there's a start.) A healthy reward of 100,000 gold is being offered for its return. The top of the food chain for this info, so to speak, is NOT Khorien. What that means, in effect, is if a character
finds the person the info came from, that person won't go and say there's someone higher than them. (Threats backed by magic are intimidating.)

There will be a few people who this rumor "originates" from. They'd be difficult to find (high-ranking underworld figures), but not impossible, if you want your character to do that. Just keep in mind- if they go before they get the gauntlet to bargain, they'll be told to get the goods first; if they go after, they may get a *little* extra (no more than 10k more); and if they go for any other reason.. make it up. :) There should be no reason for them to think there's anyone besides said underworld figure running the search, and if there is, they WILL NOT find out who it is. (Extra note: high ranking underworld figures don't scare easy.)

That should be it as far as ground rules go. Not much there, either. If you want some background, check out this link: http://www.redgoblin.com/jakethrash/opals/index.htm Otherwise, jump in as early and as often as you'd like, let your imagination roam, and above all else- make it interesting! Legendary equipment was never found in a week. (Now a few weeks.. a month.. and can you imagine if Harris and Bane and Janella and Jesse and Fala and Andrew and whoever else all wound up working together or fighting each other for it? I daresay it might be.. interesting. ::grin;:)

Spiffy

...the somewhat inspired

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/18/1999 1:44 AM Central Daylight Time
From: JakeThrash

<< ... the land of Gothmorda." (No, I don't know exactly where it is, but I'm pretty sure it's at least ON RhyDin, so there's a start.)
>>

I guess that's my cue...

About Gothmorda

Gothmorda is my creation. Anyone who needs/wants details or answers to specific questions please feel free to contact me. I'm open to suggestions, but since I created it, I do request the courtesy of control.

Gothmorda being in Rhydin? It depends on how you perceive Rhydin. Accessible from Rhydin? Yes. Most conceptions of Rhydin have it able to touch all times and places, so in theory anyplace can be reached from Rhydin, but I've never actually put Gothmorda into a map of Rhydin. However, whenever I have made reference to where Jake came from, the Orc Lands have always been "someplace to the north."

Gothmorda is in the northwestern quadrant of an area called Shargoth. Shargoth, as I normally write it, is a land north of the humans, and largely occupied by Orcs, Trolls, Ogres, and assorted humanoids. The land southern-most in Shargoth and the border between the lands of the humans and the orcs is referred to as the "Plains of Blood."

Climate and Terrain

Scattered throughout Shargoth are active volcanos. The climate of Shargoth is hot and dry. The landscape is mostly barren, with small scrub. Animal and plant life is scarce, with a high frequency of reptillians. The sky in Shargoth is always overcast, possibly due to magical influences. This is even more true in Gothmorda.

Magic

Shargoth is generally mana-poor. Which means there is not much power available to spellcasters to make use of in casting spells. The energy for more powerful spells will have to come from other sources. e.g. the spellcaster themselves, magic items they carry or other planes/dimensions/dieties/etc...

General Setting Notes & History

Gothmorda in particular is the site of an ancient spell which began feeding upon the land. As the spell grew, and took in a larger and larger area, it killed anything that was within its area of effect. Those that die within the area of effect become undead zombies, skeletons, etc.

Several races banded together to halt the spread of the spell effect. Pylons, obelisks, and other stone structures were built throughout the land of Gothmorda, and enchanted with powerful wards, to contain the effect. Essentially they drain off power, preventing the growth of the spell. Side effects of this gigantic ward: 1) Teleportation and other similar means of "point to point" transportation are not possible from outside of the ward into the area referred to as Gothmorda. 2) Gothmorda is even more mana-poor than Shargoth. Local mana is drained off into the wards and therefore spellcasting must come from internal sources of power, or carried magic items. Connections to alternate planes/or other sources of power will be interferred with by the wards. (This is why Morgan le Fay and Jake were not able to be transported directly into Gothmorda)

Yes, this was all a story device to prevent "quick movement" into or out of Gothmorda. It is several days travel, on foot, from the outskirts of Gothmorda into the center of the land.

When I created Gothmorda it was for a strictly fantasy setting, however if technology becomes an issue, I'd say that the wards will also drain anything like a battery or similar power source, making most technology all but useless within hours of entering Gothmorda's confines. The wards, and the peculiar dynamics of them, will also confound devices that rely upon magnetics e.g. compasses.

Inhabitants

Roaming the land are miscellaneous zombies, skeletons, shadows (that will attempt to possess the unwary), and other forms of undead. They will always be hostile to anything that still lives. These lesser undead cannot leave Gothmorda due to the wards. Vampires and other forms of higher undead are not native to Gothmorda, but some may have emigrated there from other locations.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 2/18/1999 2:31 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Drakewyn I

Just one thought... Every map I've seen of RhyDin, there's only one continent... it is possible that Shargoth is the northern half of a second continent on the same world? It would certainly simplify certain matters.Karen, the real one.