From: xvevan@aol.com (XvEvan)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 03:06:18 EDT
Var,
You thinking out that post was useless. I said it seemed. Try not to take this out of text next time.
-Evan Rush Rynth
Overlord Challenge Result
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 04:11:24 EDT
Evan~
Since when was being declared a Renegade banishment? You don't lose your Ring, you aren't forced out of the Arena, nothing of the sort. Don't like what happened? Either Challenge, or Retire.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Swordslady (again)
All-Star, TDL
Captain, Dracoern Highlands
Duchess of the Eastern Duchy
New Mountainside
Date: 01 Aug 1998 04:11:24 EDT
Evan~
Since when was being declared a Renegade banishment? You don't lose your Ring, you aren't forced out of the Arena, nothing of the sort. Don't like what happened? Either Challenge, or Retire.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Swordslady (again)
All-Star, TDL
Captain, Dracoern Highlands
Duchess of the Eastern Duchy
New Mountainside
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 05:17:04 EDT
My own two pfennig's worth.
The "Test of Worthiness" -is- a test of one's dueling skill, but it implies a doubt that the challenger is worthy in other ways as well.
Before you start claiming that Dalamar is "hiding" behind those loyal to him, perhaps you should look at the challenger here.
For many, perhaps too many, the Duel of Swords is -only- a sport... with no place for morality or honor. To these people, Dalamar's Intersessions for his Loyal Barons are also seen as an act of cowardice in the case of the Barons.
If this were -just- a sport, and the titles of the Duel of Swords -only- based upon skill, there would be no need for rules governing Intersession or Tests of Worthiness. And, in point of fact, rankings would become based only upon one's record and perhaps peer percentages for the WarLords.
But this is the Duel of Swords, and it is both a sport and a political machine. The newer duelers have complained about the more established duelers for as long as I can remember... I doubt it will ever change...
Except that a few more of the people I respect and care about might leave.... and that is the greatest of tragidies.
Thank you for your time and attention.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
Date: 01 Aug 1998 05:17:04 EDT
My own two pfennig's worth.
The "Test of Worthiness" -is- a test of one's dueling skill, but it implies a doubt that the challenger is worthy in other ways as well.
Before you start claiming that Dalamar is "hiding" behind those loyal to him, perhaps you should look at the challenger here.
For many, perhaps too many, the Duel of Swords is -only- a sport... with no place for morality or honor. To these people, Dalamar's Intersessions for his Loyal Barons are also seen as an act of cowardice in the case of the Barons.
If this were -just- a sport, and the titles of the Duel of Swords -only- based upon skill, there would be no need for rules governing Intersession or Tests of Worthiness. And, in point of fact, rankings would become based only upon one's record and perhaps peer percentages for the WarLords.
But this is the Duel of Swords, and it is both a sport and a political machine. The newer duelers have complained about the more established duelers for as long as I can remember... I doubt it will ever change...
Except that a few more of the people I respect and care about might leave.... and that is the greatest of tragidies.
Thank you for your time and attention.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
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From: silentcris@aol.com (SilentCris)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 13:18:56 EDT
::a quick post, the script flowing and well-formed, written on letterhead::
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology, Black Friday Investigations, Inc.
Congratulations to the Overlord. Another well-won defense, sir.
And as to the debate over the Neutral/Renegade baron:
I believe the Neutral ranking was created for those that are fence-sitters. It states in the rules regarding the position of neutrality that they may work either for or against the Overlord during time of challenge. It would seem, at least to me, that the rank holds no worth if they cannot work against the Overlord without being switched to Renegade. Any that feel they may have a wish to interceed for a challenger at any point in the future
may want to declare their alignment as Renegade from the start; just as any that may one day feel the need to offer their blade to the Overlord would more than likely wish to choose the moniker of Loyal rather than Neutral.
This is an isolated case, however. Until more evidence arises as to whether or not a Neutral baron may work against the Overlord in a challenge and remain classified as Neutral (and perhaps even, one day, work for the Overlord in a challenge as the gist of the Neutral alignment seems to be), I will hold my judgement. Also, I would suggest that any that take the name of "Neutral" not involve themselves in any matter of challenge, unless it is
their own.
Sincerely,
Cristian de Oro
Date: 01 Aug 1998 13:18:56 EDT
::a quick post, the script flowing and well-formed, written on letterhead::
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology, Black Friday Investigations, Inc.
Congratulations to the Overlord. Another well-won defense, sir.
And as to the debate over the Neutral/Renegade baron:
I believe the Neutral ranking was created for those that are fence-sitters. It states in the rules regarding the position of neutrality that they may work either for or against the Overlord during time of challenge. It would seem, at least to me, that the rank holds no worth if they cannot work against the Overlord without being switched to Renegade. Any that feel they may have a wish to interceed for a challenger at any point in the future
may want to declare their alignment as Renegade from the start; just as any that may one day feel the need to offer their blade to the Overlord would more than likely wish to choose the moniker of Loyal rather than Neutral.
This is an isolated case, however. Until more evidence arises as to whether or not a Neutral baron may work against the Overlord in a challenge and remain classified as Neutral (and perhaps even, one day, work for the Overlord in a challenge as the gist of the Neutral alignment seems to be), I will hold my judgement. Also, I would suggest that any that take the name of "Neutral" not involve themselves in any matter of challenge, unless it is
their own.
Sincerely,
Cristian de Oro
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From: mthorgrin@aol.com (M Thorgrin)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 14:42:44 EDT
Baron Rynth.
Watch yer tongue laddie.
Ye best nae be callin' such a fine an' noble lady a half-wit like ye didst. I wouldst expect thee to offer thine appologies for such a base insult. An insult unworthy of being uttered by a baron, and most certes inapplicable tae Her Grace, Lady Elgarette. In mine years, I hast seen war brought for e'en less then such words ast thine.
Learn ye what it means tae be a gentleman, e'er be thought o' ast a base fool for e'er after.
Mikhail Thorgrin, Bard Extra-ordinaire.
"Anger not the Bard, mine King, for he hast the ear of the people and canst cast thine crown from thine head with but a frown." - An advisor to the former King of Tak Troklios.
Date: 01 Aug 1998 14:42:44 EDT
Baron Rynth.
Watch yer tongue laddie.
Ye best nae be callin' such a fine an' noble lady a half-wit like ye didst. I wouldst expect thee to offer thine appologies for such a base insult. An insult unworthy of being uttered by a baron, and most certes inapplicable tae Her Grace, Lady Elgarette. In mine years, I hast seen war brought for e'en less then such words ast thine.
Learn ye what it means tae be a gentleman, e'er be thought o' ast a base fool for e'er after.
Mikhail Thorgrin, Bard Extra-ordinaire.
"Anger not the Bard, mine King, for he hast the ear of the people and canst cast thine crown from thine head with but a frown." - An advisor to the former King of Tak Troklios.
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 14:45:09 EDT
"For many, perhaps too many, the Duel of Swords is -only- a sport... with no place for morality or honor."
Lady Drake, what should it be other than a sport? To make it more than a sport is ridiculous, and to say it deserves to be less than a sport is unkind.
"But this is the Duel of Swords, and it is both a sport and a political machine."
Tell me, Lady Drake, is there more honor in a sport or a political machine? Is there more morality in sport or in politics? Has there ever been morality or honor in politics? I have heard that someone who practices a sport must be a "sportsman", must have some quality of "sportsmanship" or honor. Since when has anyone heard honor and politics used in the same breath by anyone intelligent?
Now, I am not trying to insult anyone, though I am sure some will see it that way. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the Overlord. He has earned it by climbing the ladder. He has even more fully earned it by his many successful defenses. However, I think the "Test of Worthiness" has no place in this sport. No matter how offensive the challenger, and I admit that I would have been as unhappy as many others if the Gaejin had won.
Anyway, my point is, this IS a sport, or should be.
Percival Marchand
Duc de Clermont
Master-at-arms of the DoS
The White Duke
Date: 01 Aug 1998 14:45:09 EDT
"For many, perhaps too many, the Duel of Swords is -only- a sport... with no place for morality or honor."
Lady Drake, what should it be other than a sport? To make it more than a sport is ridiculous, and to say it deserves to be less than a sport is unkind.
"But this is the Duel of Swords, and it is both a sport and a political machine."
Tell me, Lady Drake, is there more honor in a sport or a political machine? Is there more morality in sport or in politics? Has there ever been morality or honor in politics? I have heard that someone who practices a sport must be a "sportsman", must have some quality of "sportsmanship" or honor. Since when has anyone heard honor and politics used in the same breath by anyone intelligent?
Now, I am not trying to insult anyone, though I am sure some will see it that way. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the Overlord. He has earned it by climbing the ladder. He has even more fully earned it by his many successful defenses. However, I think the "Test of Worthiness" has no place in this sport. No matter how offensive the challenger, and I admit that I would have been as unhappy as many others if the Gaejin had won.
Anyway, my point is, this IS a sport, or should be.
Percival Marchand
Duc de Clermont
Master-at-arms of the DoS
The White Duke
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From: sircetran@aol.com (Sir Cetran)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 14:45:58 EDT
>> Someone called Dal a coward, in the field. Yet, the person he was cheering for is no different in allowing someone else to fight for him.<< -- Var
I understand how one might presume Dal to be a coward for useing the Test of Worthyness on his challenger, but how do you figure Sephe as a coward for allowing one to even the odds? I issue of the ToW is a wavy issue for me, sometimes I think it is worthwhile, and other times I feel that it worthless... but to hear the challenger is no differant for allowing another to fight for him is compleatly wrong because of the circumstances. And
circumstances is what makes all the differance.
I like Dal as the Overlord, I will not shun him for occationally useing the Test of Worthyness, but I do not believe it is acceptable to call Sephe a coward for allowing someone else whom is willing to even the odds for him, in order to give himself a chance at the Overlord, and not one of his Barons.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
Date: 01 Aug 1998 14:45:58 EDT
>> Someone called Dal a coward, in the field. Yet, the person he was cheering for is no different in allowing someone else to fight for him.<< -- Var
I understand how one might presume Dal to be a coward for useing the Test of Worthyness on his challenger, but how do you figure Sephe as a coward for allowing one to even the odds? I issue of the ToW is a wavy issue for me, sometimes I think it is worthwhile, and other times I feel that it worthless... but to hear the challenger is no differant for allowing another to fight for him is compleatly wrong because of the circumstances. And
circumstances is what makes all the differance.
I like Dal as the Overlord, I will not shun him for occationally useing the Test of Worthyness, but I do not believe it is acceptable to call Sephe a coward for allowing someone else whom is willing to even the odds for him, in order to give himself a chance at the Overlord, and not one of his Barons.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
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From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 16:03:52 EDT
::Makes a short comment knowing no one knows him::
The overlord has every right to his power, for he earns it. If he is allowed to be challeneged every 2 weeks or what not, he should get some, I don't know, "kickbacks", or some power. Dal made an intresting comment the night of the challenge. "Just because you can do something doesn't make it right." That to me sounds sensible and shows he must of put some thought into his decision to banish Evan to renegade. If you don't like the current overlord's
decisions (or choose to fight on the behaf of the challenger) I can see how the overlord would take that as a threat to his power and the only way to prove him unfit to be overlord anymore is to get in there and fight hard, using your sword instead of your mouth. Lord dal did this and thus earns the right to all the powers handed to him as overlord.
::posts it up on the board and hopes atleast one person will notice this::
Date: 01 Aug 1998 16:03:52 EDT
::Makes a short comment knowing no one knows him::
The overlord has every right to his power, for he earns it. If he is allowed to be challeneged every 2 weeks or what not, he should get some, I don't know, "kickbacks", or some power. Dal made an intresting comment the night of the challenge. "Just because you can do something doesn't make it right." That to me sounds sensible and shows he must of put some thought into his decision to banish Evan to renegade. If you don't like the current overlord's
decisions (or choose to fight on the behaf of the challenger) I can see how the overlord would take that as a threat to his power and the only way to prove him unfit to be overlord anymore is to get in there and fight hard, using your sword instead of your mouth. Lord dal did this and thus earns the right to all the powers handed to him as overlord.
::posts it up on the board and hopes atleast one person will notice this::
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From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 16:05:34 EDT
Agreed. If your against Lord Dal's decisions, then your a renegade in heart, why not become one officially? Read my post. ::Looks for his post through all the clutter::
Date: 01 Aug 1998 16:05:34 EDT
Agreed. If your against Lord Dal's decisions, then your a renegade in heart, why not become one officially? Read my post. ::Looks for his post through all the clutter::
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From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 16:07:35 EDT
The overlord has a lot of power, but if he chooses to let someone fight for him, why not let the challenger beat the overlord at his own game if he is truly fit to be overlord?
Date: 01 Aug 1998 16:07:35 EDT
The overlord has a lot of power, but if he chooses to let someone fight for him, why not let the challenger beat the overlord at his own game if he is truly fit to be overlord?
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From: perrinis@aol.com (Perrinis)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 17:17:59 EDT
::stares at all the posts, flipping through them... slowly rolling his eyes::
<m> I'll spare the world an argument..
::he takes a plastic bag from behind the bar and steps back over to the posts... deftly, he shuffles all the posts on said thread except the few that are actually about the challenge results into the bag, tying it firmly into a knot at the top::
::taking a yellow marker and a black one to match, he illustrates a "radioactive" symbol on the bag and tosses it into the corner, after inscribing a small note::
Everyone:
Exposure to this rhetoric and pomp has caused cancer in labratory animals.
For a better time, try inhaling your Baron/Wedding/Class ring.
::satisfied, he heads off to do something worthwhile::
Date: 01 Aug 1998 17:17:59 EDT
::stares at all the posts, flipping through them... slowly rolling his eyes::
<m> I'll spare the world an argument..
::he takes a plastic bag from behind the bar and steps back over to the posts... deftly, he shuffles all the posts on said thread except the few that are actually about the challenge results into the bag, tying it firmly into a knot at the top::
::taking a yellow marker and a black one to match, he illustrates a "radioactive" symbol on the bag and tosses it into the corner, after inscribing a small note::
Everyone:
Exposure to this rhetoric and pomp has caused cancer in labratory animals.
For a better time, try inhaling your Baron/Wedding/Class ring.
::satisfied, he heads off to do something worthwhile::
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From: lordovdale@aol.com (LordovDale)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 17:28:41 EDT
Friends and Patrons of the Duel of Swords,
I will make this as brief as I can. In fact, the only reason that I have chosen to write anything is so people will cease speculating why I acted the way I did.
I made it *very* clear from the creation of the Neutral Barony how I felt about the title. You may not agree with how I see it, but, for now, it is my right to act as I see fit. I will not respond to arguments against what I have to say, because you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have thought long and hard about this subject, and, regardless of the possible opposing arguments, I believe strictly in the following.
Anyone who chooses to align themselves "Neutral" must truly act in a Neutral manner. I told every Neutral Baron that if they took action in a manner that I considered "Renegade" or "Loyal" to the crown, that I would see their alignment changed to fit their actions appropriately. I do not believe in allowing Neutral Barons to act as "hired swords": interceding and going back and forth between supporting and opposing the crown as they see fit.
Loyalty is a strong bond, and, I believe that, as a Baron you must either stand with or against the reigning Overlord.
sincerely,
Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon
Overlord of the Duel of Swords
Lord of the Dale
Guardian of the Oldest House
Date: 01 Aug 1998 17:28:41 EDT
Friends and Patrons of the Duel of Swords,
I will make this as brief as I can. In fact, the only reason that I have chosen to write anything is so people will cease speculating why I acted the way I did.
I made it *very* clear from the creation of the Neutral Barony how I felt about the title. You may not agree with how I see it, but, for now, it is my right to act as I see fit. I will not respond to arguments against what I have to say, because you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have thought long and hard about this subject, and, regardless of the possible opposing arguments, I believe strictly in the following.
Anyone who chooses to align themselves "Neutral" must truly act in a Neutral manner. I told every Neutral Baron that if they took action in a manner that I considered "Renegade" or "Loyal" to the crown, that I would see their alignment changed to fit their actions appropriately. I do not believe in allowing Neutral Barons to act as "hired swords": interceding and going back and forth between supporting and opposing the crown as they see fit.
Loyalty is a strong bond, and, I believe that, as a Baron you must either stand with or against the reigning Overlord.
sincerely,
Lord Dalamar Ar'Daumon
Overlord of the Duel of Swords
Lord of the Dale
Guardian of the Oldest House
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 17:36:30 EDT
...Reads Dalamar's post very carefully and mutters to himself...
I see how it is. The rules don't mean anything. The Council's decisions don't mean anything. He will do things the way he wants to do it. Well, it's his prerogative. More proof that long Overlord reigns aren't good for ANYONE. Including the Overlord.
The White Duke
Date: 01 Aug 1998 17:36:30 EDT
...Reads Dalamar's post very carefully and mutters to himself...
I see how it is. The rules don't mean anything. The Council's decisions don't mean anything. He will do things the way he wants to do it. Well, it's his prerogative. More proof that long Overlord reigns aren't good for ANYONE. Including the Overlord.
The White Duke
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From: krollon@aol.com (Krollon)
Date: 01 Aug 1998 23:57:42 EDT
:::chooses not to get into the argument but does make a small post:::
Well won, Dalamar.
Too any who missed the matches, ya missed one of the best series' I've seen in a long time.
Simply,
Krollon
Date: 01 Aug 1998 23:57:42 EDT
:::chooses not to get into the argument but does make a small post:::
Well won, Dalamar.
Too any who missed the matches, ya missed one of the best series' I've seen in a long time.
Simply,
Krollon
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From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:37:36 EDT
I do not see you as trying to insult someone. By becoming a Baron he has earned the right to challenge the overlord, and he should automatically be deemed worthy. Did he not win all hose duels to become a Baron, or were they handed to him? No. And the Overlord has earned his powers through dueling, but it's not lord dale's fault there is a test of worthiness, that is the sport and until someone changes the rules of
challenging someone, then it would seem a likely choice for Dale to administer the test and also have someone fight on the behalf of him. The same thing applies with Lord Dale and the positioning of the barons. That power is enabled to him to do so, any natural person in competition for title would see someone taking sides not so neutral. I suggest either we change the challenge rules or stop knocking Lord Dal or Gaijen. (Most of this doesn't apply
to you ledublanc) ::winks::
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:37:36 EDT
I do not see you as trying to insult someone. By becoming a Baron he has earned the right to challenge the overlord, and he should automatically be deemed worthy. Did he not win all hose duels to become a Baron, or were they handed to him? No. And the Overlord has earned his powers through dueling, but it's not lord dale's fault there is a test of worthiness, that is the sport and until someone changes the rules of
challenging someone, then it would seem a likely choice for Dale to administer the test and also have someone fight on the behalf of him. The same thing applies with Lord Dale and the positioning of the barons. That power is enabled to him to do so, any natural person in competition for title would see someone taking sides not so neutral. I suggest either we change the challenge rules or stop knocking Lord Dal or Gaijen. (Most of this doesn't apply
to you ledublanc) ::winks::