From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:39:46 EDT
Agreed.
Joe Fattorusso
Joe Fattorusso
Overlord Challenge Result
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From: cygnetsera@aol.com (CygnetSera)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:43:01 EDT
The angel tacks a small missive to the boards:
What does it mean to the Overlord when one of his loyal Barons supports a renegade friend who challenges another loyal Baron?
Mumbling, "loyalty is such a fickle thing in this place."
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:43:01 EDT
The angel tacks a small missive to the boards:
What does it mean to the Overlord when one of his loyal Barons supports a renegade friend who challenges another loyal Baron?
Mumbling, "loyalty is such a fickle thing in this place."
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:55:03 EDT
Duc de Clermont,
Your writing betrays the recency with which you have begun to visit the arena. The Duel of Swords, for many of its patrons, is much more than a simple sport. There is, of course, a political aspect to it, as Lady Drake made mention of, however that is but a small part. Rich in its history and tradition, the Duel of Swords has served as a community and even a family for many of those who visit the halls of the arena. The idea that it is
"ridiculous" to see this as more than a sport is insulting to many of the long standing patrons.
As to your idea of politics, this is a common, if inaccurate, perception. I can only assume that such a mindset has come to us as more and more patrons come from republican and quasi-democratic states. Such governments are mediocre at best and force those who would hold power to twist the truth to attain votes from the populace. That is not the end all be all of politics however.
As a Duke, I must assume you serve a King. Would you call your King honorless? Kings, and even Dukes for that matter, must make political decisions every day, yet I doubt many would cry out that their liege lord was without honor. Every Knight who chooses a lord to serve makes a political decision, yet knighthood is (to some) the very symbol of honor.
Diluted to its essence, politics are those acts involved in the acquisition and use of power. Again, I believe it to be those who come to us from republican and quasi-democratic states that have begun to warp the meaning of the word.. changing it so as to imply anything political to mean something vile or underhanded.
Overlord and Baron are titles that come with certain powers, not just two more ranks. As such, they are, by definition, political seats. Every time a Baron choses an alignment, everytime a challenge is made and everytime a ring exchanges hands, politics are involved. Power is acquired and used. As these people are not elected by majority, but rather their own strength of character, we have every right to expect them to wield this political power
with the highest regard to honor. The same expectations we would have of our sovereign kings.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
Date: 02 Aug 1998 11:55:03 EDT
Duc de Clermont,
Your writing betrays the recency with which you have begun to visit the arena. The Duel of Swords, for many of its patrons, is much more than a simple sport. There is, of course, a political aspect to it, as Lady Drake made mention of, however that is but a small part. Rich in its history and tradition, the Duel of Swords has served as a community and even a family for many of those who visit the halls of the arena. The idea that it is
"ridiculous" to see this as more than a sport is insulting to many of the long standing patrons.
As to your idea of politics, this is a common, if inaccurate, perception. I can only assume that such a mindset has come to us as more and more patrons come from republican and quasi-democratic states. Such governments are mediocre at best and force those who would hold power to twist the truth to attain votes from the populace. That is not the end all be all of politics however.
As a Duke, I must assume you serve a King. Would you call your King honorless? Kings, and even Dukes for that matter, must make political decisions every day, yet I doubt many would cry out that their liege lord was without honor. Every Knight who chooses a lord to serve makes a political decision, yet knighthood is (to some) the very symbol of honor.
Diluted to its essence, politics are those acts involved in the acquisition and use of power. Again, I believe it to be those who come to us from republican and quasi-democratic states that have begun to warp the meaning of the word.. changing it so as to imply anything political to mean something vile or underhanded.
Overlord and Baron are titles that come with certain powers, not just two more ranks. As such, they are, by definition, political seats. Every time a Baron choses an alignment, everytime a challenge is made and everytime a ring exchanges hands, politics are involved. Power is acquired and used. As these people are not elected by majority, but rather their own strength of character, we have every right to expect them to wield this political power
with the highest regard to honor. The same expectations we would have of our sovereign kings.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 18:23:34 EDT
::chuckles:: Fine and noble? In all my years, I believe this is the first time any of my fellow duelists have called me such.
Lord Thorgrin~
Thank you for your support in the matter. However, I do believe that being called a "half-wit" is too small an insult to make war over it. I've been called worse.
And Evan~
Did you call me a half-wit? I was merely scanning the posts, and didn't notice. If so, I would like to ask why you would stoop to name-calling when I'm trying to be civil. If not, I apologize.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Swordslady (again)
All-Star, TDL
Captain, Dracoern Highlands
Duchess of the Eastern Duchy
New Mountainside
Date: 02 Aug 1998 18:23:34 EDT
::chuckles:: Fine and noble? In all my years, I believe this is the first time any of my fellow duelists have called me such.
Lord Thorgrin~
Thank you for your support in the matter. However, I do believe that being called a "half-wit" is too small an insult to make war over it. I've been called worse.
And Evan~
Did you call me a half-wit? I was merely scanning the posts, and didn't notice. If so, I would like to ask why you would stoop to name-calling when I'm trying to be civil. If not, I apologize.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Swordslady (again)
All-Star, TDL
Captain, Dracoern Highlands
Duchess of the Eastern Duchy
New Mountainside
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 18:29:39 EDT
>> I see how it is. The rules don't mean anything. The Council's decisions don't mean anything. He will do things the way he wants to do it. Well, it's his prerogative. More proof that long Overlord reigns aren't good for ANYONE. Including the Overlord.<<
Duke Marchand de Clermont~
Might I ask where in the rules does it say that an Overlord cannot change a Baron's alignment? Might I ask where in the rules does it say that an Overlord cannot put a Challenger to the Test of Worthiness?
I am neither saying that doing such things are right, nor am I saying that it is wrong. I am simply curious as to where you have gotten the idea that Dalamar did anything against what the rules allow him.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Swordslady (again)
All-Star, TDL
Captain, Dracoern Highlands
Duchess of the Eastern Duchy
New Mountainside
Date: 02 Aug 1998 18:29:39 EDT
>> I see how it is. The rules don't mean anything. The Council's decisions don't mean anything. He will do things the way he wants to do it. Well, it's his prerogative. More proof that long Overlord reigns aren't good for ANYONE. Including the Overlord.<<
Duke Marchand de Clermont~
Might I ask where in the rules does it say that an Overlord cannot change a Baron's alignment? Might I ask where in the rules does it say that an Overlord cannot put a Challenger to the Test of Worthiness?
I am neither saying that doing such things are right, nor am I saying that it is wrong. I am simply curious as to where you have gotten the idea that Dalamar did anything against what the rules allow him.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Swordslady (again)
All-Star, TDL
Captain, Dracoern Highlands
Duchess of the Eastern Duchy
New Mountainside
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 19:42:58 EDT
Lord Kalamere,
You begin your missive with, "Your writing betrays the recency with which you have begun to visit the arena." Just how much recency is this? I have been here, albeit interupptedly, for many years now. It is true that I have several times taken leave, due to circumstances not entirely under my own control. Just because you did not know me, or do not remember me, or do not recognize
me, this does not make me a newcomer. I am simply not a very noticeable or memorable fellow.
You next state, "Rich in its history and tradition, the Duel of Swords has served as a community and even a family for many of those who visit the halls of the arena. The idea that it is
"ridiculous" to see this as more than a sport is insulting to many of the long standing patrons." With all due respect, those who participate in the sport have formed a community, even a family. This is true. I have close friends who I miss more than I would miss life itself, most noticeably MadMadMax and SaharaRose. I have other friends who I have been reunited with, but all too few. The vast majority of those I
knew well are either gone or have forgotten me. However, this does not make the Duel of Swords more than a sport. The Arena may be a community, as we certainly are. But the Duel of Swords is a sport. It is by no means insulting to anyone to state this fact. The activity (DoS) and the community and family (the people who frequent the Arena) are two seperate entities. True, there is a feel of community and family in the rings, but the Duels themselves
are still a sport, first and foremost. This cannot be denied.
"As a Duke, I must assume you serve a King. Would you call your King honorless? Kings, and even Dukes for that matter, must make political decisions every day, yet I doubt many would cry out that their liege lord was without honor. Every Knight who chooses a lord to serve makes a political decision, yet knighthood is (to some) the very symbol of honor."
If he made a dishonorable decision, of course I would call him dishonourable. However, you are confusing statecraft (the excercise of authority and the act of rulership) with politics (the pursuit of this authority and the attempt to retain it once one possesses it), and these two are NOT the same. However, I did not call the Overlord dishonorable, nor did I attack anyone personally. I stated that I disagreed with a decision that was made. There
is a large difference.
Finally, since apparently I have a better memory of you than you do of me, I would like to make one small statement. I would not have thought to see you call another to account for voicing an opinion opposed to that of the Overlord.
The White Duke
Date: 02 Aug 1998 19:42:58 EDT
Lord Kalamere,
You begin your missive with, "Your writing betrays the recency with which you have begun to visit the arena." Just how much recency is this? I have been here, albeit interupptedly, for many years now. It is true that I have several times taken leave, due to circumstances not entirely under my own control. Just because you did not know me, or do not remember me, or do not recognize
me, this does not make me a newcomer. I am simply not a very noticeable or memorable fellow.
You next state, "Rich in its history and tradition, the Duel of Swords has served as a community and even a family for many of those who visit the halls of the arena. The idea that it is
"ridiculous" to see this as more than a sport is insulting to many of the long standing patrons." With all due respect, those who participate in the sport have formed a community, even a family. This is true. I have close friends who I miss more than I would miss life itself, most noticeably MadMadMax and SaharaRose. I have other friends who I have been reunited with, but all too few. The vast majority of those I
knew well are either gone or have forgotten me. However, this does not make the Duel of Swords more than a sport. The Arena may be a community, as we certainly are. But the Duel of Swords is a sport. It is by no means insulting to anyone to state this fact. The activity (DoS) and the community and family (the people who frequent the Arena) are two seperate entities. True, there is a feel of community and family in the rings, but the Duels themselves
are still a sport, first and foremost. This cannot be denied.
"As a Duke, I must assume you serve a King. Would you call your King honorless? Kings, and even Dukes for that matter, must make political decisions every day, yet I doubt many would cry out that their liege lord was without honor. Every Knight who chooses a lord to serve makes a political decision, yet knighthood is (to some) the very symbol of honor."
If he made a dishonorable decision, of course I would call him dishonourable. However, you are confusing statecraft (the excercise of authority and the act of rulership) with politics (the pursuit of this authority and the attempt to retain it once one possesses it), and these two are NOT the same. However, I did not call the Overlord dishonorable, nor did I attack anyone personally. I stated that I disagreed with a decision that was made. There
is a large difference.
Finally, since apparently I have a better memory of you than you do of me, I would like to make one small statement. I would not have thought to see you call another to account for voicing an opinion opposed to that of the Overlord.
The White Duke
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 19:45:35 EDT
((Author's note: You see why we all used to write "Not a post" so conspicuously? I have made this mistake on one occasion, and now it is made again.))
I do not know what you are talking about. I posted nothing of the sort, though they do match words I said in passing.
The White Duke
Date: 02 Aug 1998 19:45:35 EDT
((Author's note: You see why we all used to write "Not a post" so conspicuously? I have made this mistake on one occasion, and now it is made again.))
I do not know what you are talking about. I posted nothing of the sort, though they do match words I said in passing.
The White Duke
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From: xvevan@aol.com (XvEvan)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 21:18:10 EDT
Rand and Sep both challenged Dal. Both are Warlords. If Dal was looking at rank, then Rand and Sep would have been both tested, or both would have faced the Overlord upfront. Now I ask, why is this so? Becuase Dal thinks only sertant people can have a shot at the crown. If you arn't friends with the Overlord, do you have to go through hell just becuase he points a finger at you? But then again ... the Overlord has that power ... the power
to keep the crown as such. (Not talking about Dueling Skill.) And some wonder how he has kept his crown so long ...
-Evan Rush Rynth
Date: 02 Aug 1998 21:18:10 EDT
Rand and Sep both challenged Dal. Both are Warlords. If Dal was looking at rank, then Rand and Sep would have been both tested, or both would have faced the Overlord upfront. Now I ask, why is this so? Becuase Dal thinks only sertant people can have a shot at the crown. If you arn't friends with the Overlord, do you have to go through hell just becuase he points a finger at you? But then again ... the Overlord has that power ... the power
to keep the crown as such. (Not talking about Dueling Skill.) And some wonder how he has kept his crown so long ...
-Evan Rush Rynth
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From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 21:58:52 EDT
Sports in itself has honor, or "sportsmanship." Therefore it is just a sport but it dosn't lack honor.
Jozzi
Date: 02 Aug 1998 21:58:52 EDT
Sports in itself has honor, or "sportsmanship." Therefore it is just a sport but it dosn't lack honor.
Jozzi
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From: beatle6666@aol.com (Beatle6666)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 22:04:15 EDT
With the hole test of worthiness thing, I believe by dueling it out and keeping it close, the challenger is worthy enough to challenge the overlord. Let the onlookers decide whether or not the challenger is worthy. If you absolutley dismantle him in a challenge, any intelligent person will realize the challenger was not worthy. By making it to rank of Baron, the dueler should be worthy enough to duel the overlord. Let
the overlord prove he is worthy to keep the ring by facing his challenger.
Jozzi
Date: 02 Aug 1998 22:04:15 EDT
With the hole test of worthiness thing, I believe by dueling it out and keeping it close, the challenger is worthy enough to challenge the overlord. Let the onlookers decide whether or not the challenger is worthy. If you absolutley dismantle him in a challenge, any intelligent person will realize the challenger was not worthy. By making it to rank of Baron, the dueler should be worthy enough to duel the overlord. Let
the overlord prove he is worthy to keep the ring by facing his challenger.
Jozzi
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 02 Aug 1998 23:10:09 EDT
Evan...
Perhaps you should look at the records and see just how many times Dal -has- stepped into the ring against his challengers, and exactly how many of those duels were close and how many of them were just blow-outs.
If you can't get past a chosen champion, can you expect to get past the OverLord?
And no, it's not just Dal's "Friends" who don't get tested. There was only -one- time that Dal faced a challenger in a single duel, winner take all match... and that was against now Baron Perrinis.
The Test of Worthiness is about Respect and Honor and the "Worthiness" to be the OverLord. Not just by skill, but by respect for the traditions and the people of the Community of the Duel of Swords.
At least, that's how I see it.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
Date: 02 Aug 1998 23:10:09 EDT
Evan...
Perhaps you should look at the records and see just how many times Dal -has- stepped into the ring against his challengers, and exactly how many of those duels were close and how many of them were just blow-outs.
If you can't get past a chosen champion, can you expect to get past the OverLord?
And no, it's not just Dal's "Friends" who don't get tested. There was only -one- time that Dal faced a challenger in a single duel, winner take all match... and that was against now Baron Perrinis.
The Test of Worthiness is about Respect and Honor and the "Worthiness" to be the OverLord. Not just by skill, but by respect for the traditions and the people of the Community of the Duel of Swords.
At least, that's how I see it.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 03 Aug 1998 02:19:00 EDT
Maybe, it is how the challenge was presented, as well.
To my recollection, Rand posted his intent, and his sincere reasons.
Seraph challenged, as well. In the eyes of some, maybe it wasn't one with as much respect.
This example is not intended toward anyone, nor am I saying this is how either challenge was presented.
If someone said "Can I borrow your sword to cut this rope?". Wouldn't you be happier to lend them your blade to that person, as opposed to the one who says, "Gimme your sword so I can cut this rope, or I'll strangle you with it".
It's how you word it, how you say it, and how you mean it.
Respectfully,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud to put his family first¯|
|¯Unwavered loyalty to Dalamar¯|
|¯Holder of the 10th baronial ring¯|
|¯Attempting to defend what's right¯|
Date: 03 Aug 1998 02:19:00 EDT
Maybe, it is how the challenge was presented, as well.
To my recollection, Rand posted his intent, and his sincere reasons.
Seraph challenged, as well. In the eyes of some, maybe it wasn't one with as much respect.
This example is not intended toward anyone, nor am I saying this is how either challenge was presented.
If someone said "Can I borrow your sword to cut this rope?". Wouldn't you be happier to lend them your blade to that person, as opposed to the one who says, "Gimme your sword so I can cut this rope, or I'll strangle you with it".
It's how you word it, how you say it, and how you mean it.
Respectfully,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud to put his family first¯|
|¯Unwavered loyalty to Dalamar¯|
|¯Holder of the 10th baronial ring¯|
|¯Attempting to defend what's right¯|
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From: xvevan@aol.com (XvEvan)
Date: 03 Aug 1998 03:12:09 EDT
Lady Drake,
I have seen the records. But, what I said was fair enough. I never said any thing about over using the Test, but using the Test to keep some one who Dal thinks is not worthy of the crown away from it, though he would gladly let a friend try and take it. That was my point and next time when you want to post, don't take my text out of line.
-Evan Rush Rynth
Date: 03 Aug 1998 03:12:09 EDT
Lady Drake,
I have seen the records. But, what I said was fair enough. I never said any thing about over using the Test, but using the Test to keep some one who Dal thinks is not worthy of the crown away from it, though he would gladly let a friend try and take it. That was my point and next time when you want to post, don't take my text out of line.
-Evan Rush Rynth
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 03 Aug 1998 09:41:34 EDT
Hm...If a Warlord has to earn 15 peer wins just to challenge the overlord, I feel that that should make that Warlord worthy enough...No other test of worthyness whould be needed.
Cletus Ganderfald
of the First House of Polaris
Date: 03 Aug 1998 09:41:34 EDT
Hm...If a Warlord has to earn 15 peer wins just to challenge the overlord, I feel that that should make that Warlord worthy enough...No other test of worthyness whould be needed.
Cletus Ganderfald
of the First House of Polaris
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From: projectbs@aol.com (Project BS)
Date: 03 Aug 1998 10:02:31 EDT
Before we get too out of hand with the whole mislead issue of worthiness and the test, lets compare the latest two Warlords' records, etc at the moment of their challenge to the Overlord. Perhaps this would give a bit more insight as to why or why not Ar'Daumon decided to test.
Rand al'Tan
- With held a sum of 25 WoL at the time of challenge
- Has worn a Baronial ring in the past
- Was placed 1st among his peers apon the Warlord's Corner
- Has been an active member within the DoS Community in the past
Seraph (Gaejin)
- With held a sum of 22 WoL at the time of challenge
- Has yet to earn a baronial ring
- Was placed 12th among his peers apon the Warlord's Corner
- To our knowledge, has yet to display dislike, or good will, towards the community
We hope this short summary changes a few minds and lessens the amount of needless posts on the subject.
Project BS
Neutrality and Community Health
Date: 03 Aug 1998 10:02:31 EDT
Before we get too out of hand with the whole mislead issue of worthiness and the test, lets compare the latest two Warlords' records, etc at the moment of their challenge to the Overlord. Perhaps this would give a bit more insight as to why or why not Ar'Daumon decided to test.
Rand al'Tan
- With held a sum of 25 WoL at the time of challenge
- Has worn a Baronial ring in the past
- Was placed 1st among his peers apon the Warlord's Corner
- Has been an active member within the DoS Community in the past
Seraph (Gaejin)
- With held a sum of 22 WoL at the time of challenge
- Has yet to earn a baronial ring
- Was placed 12th among his peers apon the Warlord's Corner
- To our knowledge, has yet to display dislike, or good will, towards the community
We hope this short summary changes a few minds and lessens the amount of needless posts on the subject.
Project BS
Neutrality and Community Health