Simple

[DoS Archive]

From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 14 Oct 1998 23:47:28 EDT

DoS,


To put it simply...think what you will of me. Only *I* know me, none of you even have a clue.Think me honorless, think me a coward, think of me what you will. I don't care. I'll keep my word, and I will rescind my challenge to Dalamar.


Have a nice day

Huma
batteries not included

[DoS Archive]

From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 00:30:25 EDT

Huma,
While I am loyal to Dalamar, I think you challenged him with honor, and am glad with the approach. Instead of challenging a baron, just to get a challenge against Dal which, according to his new policies, would not test any baron, you earned the fifteen wins against peers, instead. To my knowledge, you never asked that you not be tested, nor do I feel you would.
If the challenge were fought, I am sure it would have been a fine display of skill. Good luck in your future endeavors.


Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 00:43:08 EDT

M'Lord Huma

The question remains, will the council honor thine request. For if there is no challenge there is no question for the council to address. Prithee will thee seek of the council to have thine request to rescind thine challenge to the Overlord upheld? That, M'lord, is perhaps the heart of the matter.

There is no doubt in my mind that Jeffrey would have stood by his pledge to forfeit his Baron's ring had Chaos not bested thee.

I shall presume Madame Helix didst advise Master Nycholas, perhaps a bit precipitously. I am sure I shall be corrected if I am in error. The Baron Sartan was present to stand as second for the Overlord, and in lieu of the evenings events, perhaps the council might also consider a further question. There is precedent for the second to stand for the duelist though to my direct knowledge the circumstances came about mid duel.

Are those who stand as second merely serving an honorary role? Perhaps the council might consider addressing the matter.

Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Common as they come.

[DoS Archive]

From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 01:06:57 EDT

Huma,

After learning what happened this evening regarding your challenge, I am disheartened that you would allow yourself to be goaded into a duel that would cost you a possible shot at the overlord's crown. Your challenge was legitimate and as I recall made in a respectful manner.

Jeff, you should be ashamed. As should the rest of you who watched this transpire without questioning it. The matter as per precedent should have been turned over to the Baron's council without any bets on the side. Is this your idea of upholding honor, people? I think not. Honor is not forcing someone to cast away a right they have earned for your purposes.

Darkness failed to show and he was stripped of his title and ring. I believe something similar happened to Ulath Fici. Dalamar is not above the rules.

Granted the Baron's council being primarily comprised of loyalists would likely chose to keep the crown on Dalamar's head, however that is not an underhanded dealing. It's by the book and within the rules of the sport and Baron's council to do such.

I agree with the statement Var has made. Your challenge was an honorable one and in my opinion should not be held to anyones scrutiny.

Collie
Colleen MacLeod-Lasher

[DoS Archive]

From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 02:39:30 EDT

>Are those who stand as second merely serving an honorary role? Perhaps the
>council might consider addressing the matter.
>

I join my thoughts with Jona's on this matter. What role does a second fill if not to stand in the duelist's place for a challenge match at any time during the match?

THere is nothing in the rules covering the status of seconds.

Colleen MacLeod-Lasher.

[DoS Archive]

From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 02:40:37 EDT

Collie,

I will never be ashamed ta stand up fer a friend in need. I will never be ashamed fer defendin' an Overlord I am loyal ta. Perhaps yer lack of experience in my role leads ya ta misunderstand da bond between loyalist and Overlord. All politics aside, Dalamar is my friend, and I'll be damned if I'm just gonna stand by and watch him lose his crown due to uncontrollable circumstances (his father dying and him not bein' able ta attend). Cast all da
insults ya want, doin' so shows ya don't understand loyalty. I will always risk me rank ta help Dal, wasn't a doubt in my mind what I had ta do tanight and I didn't hesitate fer a second when Huma offered.

Person ya should be ashamed of is Huma, fer not keepin' his word, fer showin' he has no ounce of honor left.


~J

[DoS Archive]

From: xgnortx@aol.com (X Gnort X)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 03:24:41 EDT

<<After learning what happened this evening regarding your challenge, I am disheartened that you would allow yourself to be goaded into a duel that would cost you a possible shot at the overlord's crown.>>

Collie,

For informations sake, Huma wasn't goaded into that duel. In fact, Huma was the one to first make teh suggestion and offered the terms. And, I saw several people who wanted Huma to not take the duel with Jeff and spoke out.




G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador

Head of House Dragoon Talanador

Thrice Baron of the DoS

[DoS Archive]

From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 04:22:48 EDT

Jeff,

I apologize on this count.. I was not aware Huma suggested the duel between you. I was told that you and others goaded him into it.

However, as was pointed out by Jona, I believe, that Sartan was Dalamar's appointed second.. so... why wasn't it him fighting the duel, officially, and this would have been over? You should have refused and let the officials decide, it is their job. It's my understanding that the forfeiture was decided prior to your duel with Huma. If that is so then by the rules the matter was settled, why not leave well enough alone?

Let's be honest, Jeff as part of a fourteen member Baron's Council less the Overlord is thirteen, less three Renegades is ten, ten loyal barons. (Info based on current standings) Now, with thirteen members able to vote this issue and ten loyal to Dalamar, what do you really believe that outcome will be? There is the poltical control, right there. There was no need for the duel you two fought since the Baron's council will have last word anyway. AJ
Bird, the senior Baron placed notice out for the public that that council would be convened as deemed by the rules.

Mark me, I am sympathetic to Dalamar's needing to be with his father in his last hours and offered my condolences, however, the discussion is over you and Huma taking matters into your own hands and attempting to bypass the Baron's Council and the workings of the rules and policies laid forth for all to see.

Loyalty and honor? I understand them well, better than you think. I recall loyalty to you a time long past when I refused to give your name to those that would have killed you. I ask you this simple question... Why was there a need for you to even consider laying your rank on the line when the matter was going to the Baron's council comprised roughly of 7/10ths of Loyal supporters to Dalamar. Does this mean there is possibly a need to question how
those members will vote?

Collie

[DoS Archive]

From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 04:35:07 EDT

>> Collie,

For informations sake, Huma wasn't goaded into that duel. In fact, Huma was the one to first make teh suggestion and offered the terms. And, I saw several people who wanted Huma to not take the duel with Jeff and spoke out.<<

Thanks, G. I learned this later and I have made a written apology to Jeff on that count.

I still do not see a need for them to have done this for two reasons, a forfeiture was declared by the officials present and in accordance with the rules. Does that mean Dal automatically loses his crown? NO, it means the Baron's Council will decide the issue. Second, with the majority of Barons on the council aligned as Loyal, why is there a need to silently question their loyalty by trying to take that decision out of their hands?

I'm curious, G. as a Loyal Baron and member of the Baron's Council how do you feel about someone attempting to bypass the system and not allow a fair vote to take place?

Collie

[DoS Archive]

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 08:26:09 EDT

Colleen,

I shall contend the officials were mayhap precipitous in sending the matter to the council with not only the Overlord's Second on hand but Loyal Barons also present. I mean no disrespect to Madame Helix Gilyan Deverrey Girvin, nor certes none to Nycholas De Gyrlington. However there is precedent whereby the Second has entered the ring, and it is as well long known that the Baron Jeffrey Oakenshield has stood as Champion for Lord Dalamar.

Thine animosity against the Overlord is nae a secret lass. Thee support thine former paramour Lord Draven Altruis, e'en in death, e'en with a wedding ring 'pon thine hand, that of Master Judas Lasher. Mayhap there's the rub, Madame for thee dinna witness the exploits of thine former lover as I did. As well then that some do say the arrow of Eros dost oft blind its target as well as wound the heart.

Thee dinna witness this eves events and didst hastily rush to castigate the Baron Jeffrey, nae to mention implying that the Warlord Huma was forced into the situation. Thee didst offer apology to the Baron Oakenshield most certes. Yet dost consider the Warlord Huma the type of man who would or could be forced into such a circumstance? He who stood alone when House Questrion fell? Are thee so wroth with M'lord Dalamar that thee wouldst stand with
any that wouldst seek his mantle?

Any who have had the ill fortune to have lived in a war torn land are well aware of the saying,
"The enemy of mine enemy ist mine friend." Perhaps thee subscribe to it.





Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.

[DoS Archive]

From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 12:22:22 EDT

Collie,

First off it has already been ruled, by Helix, dat a second cannot duel in place of da challenged unless da challenged was present fer round 1 and drawn away by some unforseen circumstance.

I was da second ta Marius when he challenge Kaprielle many months ago. He failed ta show up fer da challenge and I offered myself, as second, ta fight fer da ring. I was declined by Helix, however da match was rescheduled in dat case and Kaprielle went on ta retain da ring.


Secondly, I didn't want ta send da challenge ta da council, too much of an unknown. I certainly didn't wanna see Dal have *any* chance of losin' his crown under da circumstances, and I gladly risked me ring ta prevent it. Even with 10 Loyal barons on da council, dere is no assurance Dal wouldn't be stripped of his crown in favor of havin' a champion duel in Dal's place (its happened twice with Barons, once Adeena dueled Daegarth, and once Ajay
dueled ta defend another Baron's ring). What if da council ruled ta call upon another ta duel Huma, and should da other win, Dal would still be stripped and a tourney would insue. I tried me hardest ta prevent it.

However, Helix has now denied Huma's initial request ta recind, and Huma has flushed what little integrity he had left down da toilet, and so it seems all of last nights actions were fer naught.

~J

[DoS Archive]

From: silentcris@aol.com (SilentCris)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 12:42:42 EDT


From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.


It would seem to me that, the "bond between a loyalist and the Overlord" being as strong as it is, one would have no worry that the Overlord would ever be stripped of his crown by a Council. Looking over the loyalist listings, I would have to say I personally know almost every single one of them calls Dalamar friend.
As much as we like to think that these rings are solely about politics, I somehow doubt even one of them would separate their friendship with Dalamar from their decision in a Baron's Council. While the circumstances surrounding the Overlord's absence are quite sad, he did, in fact, fail to show at the appointed time and any decision henceforth should be up to the Baron's Council as a whole... not a single baron.
While a duel of honor is quite noble a concept, we've obviously seen that there is, more often than not, no honor to be found in the political battlefield. Simply put, a baron should not take it upon himself or herself to singlehandedly decide the fate of the Overlordship in a "Duel of Honor"... as with any breaking of the challenge code, the Overlord, unfortunately in this case, must face his absence as any other would, before the Baron's Council.
I have no doubt they will decide in an honest and fair manner given the Overlord's track record for challenge attendance and what he has done for this sport on a whole.

Cristian de Oro

[DoS Archive]

From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 13:18:00 EDT

I find keeping my pen still a bit difficult I shall endeavor to be brief.

However there is precedent whereby the Second has entered the ring, and it is as well long known that the Baron Jeffrey Oakenshield has stood as Champion for Lord Dalamar. -jonalyn

As Jeff correctly pointed out, this statement is misleading and false. In the prior case both challenger and challengee were present and the duel began. I believe that the Overlord would agree that should barons start allowing tier second to fight for them without being present that they could not be correctly called "Defender" of their ring. For what ever reason Dalamar did not arrive. I make no judgements on his reasons for not being their, as
I am sure they are honorable, however he was not there. This is clearly a forfeit and the rules that govern this sport are clear on this matter.

Secondly, I didn't want ta send da challenge ta da council, too much of an unknown. I certainly didn't wanna see Dal have *any* chance of losin' his crown under da circumstances, and I gladly risked me ring ta prevent it.- Jeff

I saw in an earlier note from Baron Oakenshield, that his motivations were not political. I do beg to differ. Baron Oakenshield supports and likes Dalamar and Huma seeks to dethrone Dalamar, therefore one who supports Dalamar goes up in arms at any percieved slight is the pat response from, not just Jeff but many. I do not find any fault with their displaying their loyalties but I do think the word "political" here is being used to show dishonor
on those we do not agree with. The fact is this entire matter *is* political on both sides. I would hope that the Baron's council would review all of the offical matters pertaining to this incident and make a decision that adheres to the rules of this sport first and honor second. Now should one look at strictly the politics of this matter there should have been no concerns with this matter going before the council, unless Baron Oakenshield doubts
the convictions of his fellow 10 loyal barons. I cannot say, save that from the outside, but the council has the majority loyal to the Overlord. For those who wish to name precidents, well the council has voted, even most recently, to punish one who missed the scheduled time of a duel. I must ask, does the Overlord have more favor in the rules with regards to being present at a challenge than does a warlord? Do the rules not apply equally to all?
I would say, from an uninformed point of view, that should the challenge proceed there might be some need to review past decisions and offer apologies to warlords such as Clutch. After all he was punished for the same crime against "the honor of the sport." I know this may seem unreasonable to many, but I believe the law is the law and I further believe that this council will make a decision that will be 180 degrees opposite of its decision made
on the 3 of the last month. In the offical decision, penned by the overlord's own hand, is this quote, "The procedure was called to an end when the vote reached 6-5 in favor of Option #2. Even though there was one Baron left to vote, who could, at best, bring it to a tie, I made it clear that, should it be a tie, I would choose #2. Since I would be the tie breaking vote in said situation, there is no possible outcome except for the actions listed in
Option #2." This was in regard to Warolord Clutch becoming confused and arriving late to his challenge with the Baron Roland. This is not only a precident, it was the councils last vote to choose to strip the warlord of his peer wins and therefore punish him for being late. As I said before, I am certian that Dalamar was detained for valid reasons, but his own words has proven that any excuse for missing a challenge should be judged most harshly.
Do we feel the same now that it is the Overlord in question?

However, Helix has now denied Huma's initial request ta recind, and Huma has flushed what little integrity he had left down da toilet, and so it seems all of last nights actions were fer naught. -Jeff

I recall Baron Oakenshield, being told that I should *not* try to define honor for everyone else. As I recall, you were one that told me such. Why is it that you are allowed and I am not? And mind we don't try to punish Helix for following the offical rules of the sport. We all so love those rules when they favor our side...

Constant,

~Brian Girvin

[DoS Archive]

From: dukeuziei@aol.com (Duke UzieI)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 14:28:11 EDT

<< Person ya should be ashamed of is Huma, fer not keepin' his word, fer showin' he has no ounce of honor left.>>

Huma has kept his word.

I believe that once we as a community allow any to be above the laws that bind this community.....then all honor is lost.

~Adonai

[DoS Archive]

From: prlunicorn@aol.com (PrlUnicorn)
Date: 15 Oct 1998 14:43:06 EDT

Jonalyn,

First, let me point out that I find being called Madame most distasteful, it is a term often used to refer to a woman who makes her living running a brothel. I have done many things in my years, that is not one of them.

That out of the way..Yes, there were other loyal barons present including Jeff Oakenshield, however, Sartan was the chosen second by Dalamar's own word. He must have had a reason. As you point out, "However there is precedent whereby the Second has entered the ring, " Sartan was chosen and given the right by Dal to duel in his stead for this match.

Baron Oakenshield has indeed stood as champion for Dalamar and most honorably so. He even offered to stand champion for Dalamar some time ago against Skyler Jackson Chamberland when Skyler's match was automatically free of a test of worthiness. It was a tourney prize. Jeff may have spoken those words in jest, however, I still recall them.

My animosity toward Dalamar is well known including to him. Note well, that in matters not political I would say the he and I are civil toward each other at the least. Dalamar knows where I stand and why. I have not hidden it. At least Dal knows a knife coming for his back wont be mine.

I have not questioned Dalamar's whereabouts nor his integrity in this matter. He has right as all of us to grieve our dead. He is called to be judged by a council that he heads, has he refused to abide by that? Not to my knowledge.

I do now question, having been informed for others what happened between the two that agreed to try to bypass the Baron's Council.

As to witnessing Draven's exploits, you didn't know the same man that I did. You never saw the one that risked his own life for mine and nearly died as result of it.

As to my husband, Judas Lasher, he is quite well aware of my feelings toward Draven. I keep no secrets from him. As you of all people should know Jona having been lead to believe that you own husband was dead, love for someone crosses even the boundary of death.

No, I am not so wroth to stand with any that seek it. I stood against Seraph. Baron Oakenshield recently stated that one shouldn't become a Baron if they do not wish to be a part of the challenge scene. There is more to being a Baron, I thought than challenging. I thought one was bound to set an example and uphold the rules and traditions of this place. Perhaps, I was hasty in my interpretation of those things.

Colleen MacLeod-Lasher