From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 14:20:10 EDT
Fellow Baron's,
Initialy, my choice here was to award a rematch. Something however has troubled me and it is now I recast my vote and stand firm by my choice. I vote A.
A because Jeff and Kalamere are both right, how can we back a man who goes back on his word, over a man(dwarf) who stood up for his friend someone who would have given his ring up without hesitation. I am friends with both Huma and Jeff, dwarves hold honor very highly. I didn't see this last night when I cast my original vote, and for that I am sorry to you all. I stand by my choice now, and by Jeff and his actions and cast my vote as A.
Sincerly,
Gimzak Stonecutter
Baron of the 11th
Mind you all, I am not putting Huma on trial, I am also in agreement that Dal should face some kind of discipline like action. The fines Kalamere suggested seem to be a good thing.
One Baron's thoughts
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From: jessetroyn@aol.com (JesseTroyn)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 14:20:26 EDT
::walks away, smirking:: <m> That Kal guy arguing with these dolts is like a doctor of philosophy discussing Locke with a bunch of retarded five year olds.
Date: 16 Oct 1998 14:20:26 EDT
::walks away, smirking:: <m> That Kal guy arguing with these dolts is like a doctor of philosophy discussing Locke with a bunch of retarded five year olds.
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 20:39:22 EDT
Fellow members of the council,
Looking once more over the tallied votes, I am proud to see so few have voted for the rematch. As the vote stands at present, there are 8 votes in favor of allowing Dalamar to retain the crown without facing Huma. There were only two votes for a rematch and one vote from in favor of a tournament. Only Zen has yet to vote.
Since there are 12 voting members of the council, a count of 8 is an easy majority, as such, Zen's vote is irrelavent to the outcome. That being the case, I believe we can dock this issue, or perhaps present the result to Helix as a partial decision, and move on to the other topics which must yet be determined.
The questions that remain involve the rights of both Huma and Dalamar. For this segment of the discussions, I believe we can accomplish two things. First, we can put to rest the issues involving Huma because they seem clearly laid out and require little more than a vote. The same cannot be said for Dalamar however. Along with casting your votes, in the second section it would be beneficial list your thoughts on possible sanctions to be applied to
the Overlord.
Section I.
A) As to Huma's peer wins:
(1) The should be revoked
(2) They should not be revoked
(3) Other... please explain.
B) As to Huma's right to challenge again this cycle.
(1) Said right should be revoked.
(2) Said right should be revoked only in regard to the Overlord
(3) Huma should retain his right to challenge
(4) Other.. please explain.
C) Herein, list anything else you wish considered in regard to Huma.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Section II.
As some have pointed out already, we have spent a lot of time discussing Huma, and very little time on Dalamar, despite the fact that it was he who missed the match. I feel this has been necessary in order to dismiss the easier questions. The time for that, however, is past us. Herein there are two questions that must be answered. (1) Should the Overlord be censured in some manner and (2) If the Overlord is to be censured, how should it be done.
I have already stated that I believe some sanction is needed in this case and have also listed two items I find to be fair in this situation. Please now add your own thoughts.
Respectfully,
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
ps: I have removed all non-Barons from this mailstring, and also removed the names from the tallies listed at the top. If you wish the public to know exactly how you voted, you are free to inform them... I did not think this a thing I should take it upon myself to do however.
pss: Having just seen Var's letter, he points out many of the things I do as far as tallies.. however, the issue is not put to rest. Whether Dalamar retains the crown is but one part of what needs be decided.
Date: 16 Oct 1998 20:39:22 EDT
Fellow members of the council,
Looking once more over the tallied votes, I am proud to see so few have voted for the rematch. As the vote stands at present, there are 8 votes in favor of allowing Dalamar to retain the crown without facing Huma. There were only two votes for a rematch and one vote from in favor of a tournament. Only Zen has yet to vote.
Since there are 12 voting members of the council, a count of 8 is an easy majority, as such, Zen's vote is irrelavent to the outcome. That being the case, I believe we can dock this issue, or perhaps present the result to Helix as a partial decision, and move on to the other topics which must yet be determined.
The questions that remain involve the rights of both Huma and Dalamar. For this segment of the discussions, I believe we can accomplish two things. First, we can put to rest the issues involving Huma because they seem clearly laid out and require little more than a vote. The same cannot be said for Dalamar however. Along with casting your votes, in the second section it would be beneficial list your thoughts on possible sanctions to be applied to
the Overlord.
Section I.
A) As to Huma's peer wins:
(1) The should be revoked
(2) They should not be revoked
(3) Other... please explain.
B) As to Huma's right to challenge again this cycle.
(1) Said right should be revoked.
(2) Said right should be revoked only in regard to the Overlord
(3) Huma should retain his right to challenge
(4) Other.. please explain.
C) Herein, list anything else you wish considered in regard to Huma.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Section II.
As some have pointed out already, we have spent a lot of time discussing Huma, and very little time on Dalamar, despite the fact that it was he who missed the match. I feel this has been necessary in order to dismiss the easier questions. The time for that, however, is past us. Herein there are two questions that must be answered. (1) Should the Overlord be censured in some manner and (2) If the Overlord is to be censured, how should it be done.
I have already stated that I believe some sanction is needed in this case and have also listed two items I find to be fair in this situation. Please now add your own thoughts.
Respectfully,
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
ps: I have removed all non-Barons from this mailstring, and also removed the names from the tallies listed at the top. If you wish the public to know exactly how you voted, you are free to inform them... I did not think this a thing I should take it upon myself to do however.
pss: Having just seen Var's letter, he points out many of the things I do as far as tallies.. however, the issue is not put to rest. Whether Dalamar retains the crown is but one part of what needs be decided.
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From: cygnetsera@aol.com (CygnetSera)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 20:59:27 EDT
The 1st Angel muses over the many opinions tacked upon the ancient board. Pausing to read de Oro's response a second time, she nods in agreement.
Penning in her trademark green ink, the Seraph writes:
Good Sir de Oro,
I am in agreement with your conclusion regarding the honorable Overlord and Huma Dragonbane.
It would be quite falable to first look beyond the real issue at hand , which is indeed the failure of the Overlord to appear at the decided time.
As I stand loyal to the Overlord with above reproach commitment, I must also comment that it would be a grave injustice to the DoS if the council addresses matters in an order that is biased, sating the loyals by dismissing the Overlords failure to make the challenge, only to focus on Lord Dragonbanes folly.
I remain in Grace,
Cygnet Seraphin
1st of the 9 Orders
Veteran Jade Gryphons, TDL
~CS~
After securing the pale linen parchment to the cork with a small, delicate feather, the Seraph's visage is pensive before she vanishes in flash of brilliant celestial light.
Date: 16 Oct 1998 20:59:27 EDT
The 1st Angel muses over the many opinions tacked upon the ancient board. Pausing to read de Oro's response a second time, she nods in agreement.
Penning in her trademark green ink, the Seraph writes:
Good Sir de Oro,
I am in agreement with your conclusion regarding the honorable Overlord and Huma Dragonbane.
It would be quite falable to first look beyond the real issue at hand , which is indeed the failure of the Overlord to appear at the decided time.
As I stand loyal to the Overlord with above reproach commitment, I must also comment that it would be a grave injustice to the DoS if the council addresses matters in an order that is biased, sating the loyals by dismissing the Overlords failure to make the challenge, only to focus on Lord Dragonbanes folly.
I remain in Grace,
Cygnet Seraphin
1st of the 9 Orders
Veteran Jade Gryphons, TDL
~CS~
After securing the pale linen parchment to the cork with a small, delicate feather, the Seraph's visage is pensive before she vanishes in flash of brilliant celestial light.
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From: jakvaltrds@aol.com (Jakvaltrds)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:05:52 EDT
This are my responses to the matter in question so all may be privy
My friends,
In light of the situation and my personal feelings for both the Warlord and the Overlord I cannot help but have sympathy for both men.
The Warlord did indeed arrive promptly and was ready to face whomever he didst ha'e to. The Overlord, for reasons of state was unable to make the appointed time.
After a long wait and a earfull of advice from many persons not involved as well as conferring with the DoS Co-Ordinator and the warlord, Reiver announced the duel to be forfeited. This does not remove the title from Dalamar, nor does make Huma the Overlord.
After hearing of the agreement between Huma and Jeff, I do not expect the warlord to press the challenge as he has always been a man of his word. My thoughts on the matter are thus. Simply tell the Overlord to reschedule the event and if the warlord wishes to pursue the title, he will meet Dal on the field of battle. I do not believe we have the option of forcing Dal to duel without a test but we can remove his title and cast it to a tournament or
award it to the Warlord. Neither of these options seem a fitting end to Dalamar's reign.
Let us begin to decide this as suggested by the senior Baron, Ajay Bird
Respectfully
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First
To all concerned in the matter at hand.
As I see the voting has begun I would like to toss in my two cents along with my ballot. As I stated earlier, no matter the outcome of Huma and Jeff's match, the ttle is what we must decide. Do we, A. Order a rematch, B) Strip Dal and tos the title to the 13 Barons, or C. Award the title to Huma?
My vote is simply order the challenge to proceed. Make the two determine a time that is suitable to Huma's schedule and then if Huma is of the mindset to press the challenge he may do so. If he wishes to rescind then I say he be allowed to without predjudice. ie: he keeps his wins and right of challenge.
Remember that AJ has given us the week so you need not rush to decision but keep in mind those who would try to remove Dal at any cost are going to be tugging on your ear.
With the utmost respect to each of you
Seamus MacDonnaugh
Baron of the First
Lairds and Ladies all
I find myself wi' a bit of a dilemma concerning this matter.
Havin heard the reasoning behind the Overlords absence last eve.
I also ha'e a great concern for the recantin of an oath by the Warlord.
At first blush, my thoughts were for the fair treatment of Laird Dragonbane.
When I stated my feelings tha' the duel be rescheduled, twas so the warlord would ha'e the opportunity to step out of the duel per his oath to Jeffery before those gathered in the arena last eve. Upon further study of the matter and hearing from the boards his own words, I am not so concerned with Huma as I am the sanctity of the sport. I do not believe the warlord should receive a punishment when he was in fact in attendance for the match. I do
believe after listening to Baron Ar' Din, tha' Huma will issue challenge post haste should we not reschedule and still allow his right to challenge.
I for one do not believe there is anything short of his fathers death tha' would keep Dal from attending his match with the Warlord.
As to sending a letter to the warlord, in haste it could be overlooked by Dal or perhaps his mind was far from the rings and it was merely an oversight. Whatever the reasons the facts are the same, Huma was here and Dal wasn't.
Had Huma nerra dueled Jeff the matter would ha'e been a lot simpler to discern.
Bottom line here, I will not vote to remove Dal's title. I will however vote for censure. The fine levied and donated to the Orphans and old duelers will be supported, as well as the restricted right of the ToW in the next challenge.
As for the warlord, I will have to think further on the matter
Sincerely,
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First
In response to Kalamere after he asked if my position had changed
<< Save Kalamere, Sartan, and Gnort, each and everyone of ya has placed almost no value in da duel of honor I did fight with Warlord Huma Dragonbane. >>
ye best rethink those words friend Oakenshield, were it not for Huma's recanting of that oath I would stand firm in his right to a rematch As it stands, my vote is for A with the Overlord being censured, the challenge forfeit and the Walord losing his right to challenge the Overlord for the remainder of the cycle.
If there is anything unclear about tha' feel free to drop a line to my personal box and we can hash it out.
Seamus
Section I.
A) As to Huma's peer wins:
(1) The should be revoked
(2) They should not be revoked
(3) Other... please explain.
B) As to Huma's right to challenge again this cycle.
(1) Said right should be revoked.
(2) Said right should be revoked only in regard to the Overlord
(3) Huma should retain his right to challenge
(4) Other.. please explain.
C) Herein, list anything else you wish considered in regard to Huma.
>>
A) = 2
B) = 2 as per his word given in the honor duel
C) = Nothing, further
Now as to the matter of censure
1) Dal will have his right to test removed for the reminder of the cylce
2) all fines imposed as previousl discuss
3) The removal of at least one fancy maneuver for the remainder of the cycle. In the ring of challenge as well as the arena.
4) It shall be written into the history books for all to see in hope they will nae take the obligation of meeting their challenges lightly
::Signed simply::
Seamus
Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:05:52 EDT
This are my responses to the matter in question so all may be privy
My friends,
In light of the situation and my personal feelings for both the Warlord and the Overlord I cannot help but have sympathy for both men.
The Warlord did indeed arrive promptly and was ready to face whomever he didst ha'e to. The Overlord, for reasons of state was unable to make the appointed time.
After a long wait and a earfull of advice from many persons not involved as well as conferring with the DoS Co-Ordinator and the warlord, Reiver announced the duel to be forfeited. This does not remove the title from Dalamar, nor does make Huma the Overlord.
After hearing of the agreement between Huma and Jeff, I do not expect the warlord to press the challenge as he has always been a man of his word. My thoughts on the matter are thus. Simply tell the Overlord to reschedule the event and if the warlord wishes to pursue the title, he will meet Dal on the field of battle. I do not believe we have the option of forcing Dal to duel without a test but we can remove his title and cast it to a tournament or
award it to the Warlord. Neither of these options seem a fitting end to Dalamar's reign.
Let us begin to decide this as suggested by the senior Baron, Ajay Bird
Respectfully
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First
To all concerned in the matter at hand.
As I see the voting has begun I would like to toss in my two cents along with my ballot. As I stated earlier, no matter the outcome of Huma and Jeff's match, the ttle is what we must decide. Do we, A. Order a rematch, B) Strip Dal and tos the title to the 13 Barons, or C. Award the title to Huma?
My vote is simply order the challenge to proceed. Make the two determine a time that is suitable to Huma's schedule and then if Huma is of the mindset to press the challenge he may do so. If he wishes to rescind then I say he be allowed to without predjudice. ie: he keeps his wins and right of challenge.
Remember that AJ has given us the week so you need not rush to decision but keep in mind those who would try to remove Dal at any cost are going to be tugging on your ear.
With the utmost respect to each of you
Seamus MacDonnaugh
Baron of the First
Lairds and Ladies all
I find myself wi' a bit of a dilemma concerning this matter.
Havin heard the reasoning behind the Overlords absence last eve.
I also ha'e a great concern for the recantin of an oath by the Warlord.
At first blush, my thoughts were for the fair treatment of Laird Dragonbane.
When I stated my feelings tha' the duel be rescheduled, twas so the warlord would ha'e the opportunity to step out of the duel per his oath to Jeffery before those gathered in the arena last eve. Upon further study of the matter and hearing from the boards his own words, I am not so concerned with Huma as I am the sanctity of the sport. I do not believe the warlord should receive a punishment when he was in fact in attendance for the match. I do
believe after listening to Baron Ar' Din, tha' Huma will issue challenge post haste should we not reschedule and still allow his right to challenge.
I for one do not believe there is anything short of his fathers death tha' would keep Dal from attending his match with the Warlord.
As to sending a letter to the warlord, in haste it could be overlooked by Dal or perhaps his mind was far from the rings and it was merely an oversight. Whatever the reasons the facts are the same, Huma was here and Dal wasn't.
Had Huma nerra dueled Jeff the matter would ha'e been a lot simpler to discern.
Bottom line here, I will not vote to remove Dal's title. I will however vote for censure. The fine levied and donated to the Orphans and old duelers will be supported, as well as the restricted right of the ToW in the next challenge.
As for the warlord, I will have to think further on the matter
Sincerely,
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First
In response to Kalamere after he asked if my position had changed
<< Save Kalamere, Sartan, and Gnort, each and everyone of ya has placed almost no value in da duel of honor I did fight with Warlord Huma Dragonbane. >>
ye best rethink those words friend Oakenshield, were it not for Huma's recanting of that oath I would stand firm in his right to a rematch As it stands, my vote is for A with the Overlord being censured, the challenge forfeit and the Walord losing his right to challenge the Overlord for the remainder of the cycle.
If there is anything unclear about tha' feel free to drop a line to my personal box and we can hash it out.
Seamus
Section I.
A) As to Huma's peer wins:
(1) The should be revoked
(2) They should not be revoked
(3) Other... please explain.
B) As to Huma's right to challenge again this cycle.
(1) Said right should be revoked.
(2) Said right should be revoked only in regard to the Overlord
(3) Huma should retain his right to challenge
(4) Other.. please explain.
C) Herein, list anything else you wish considered in regard to Huma.
>>
A) = 2
B) = 2 as per his word given in the honor duel
C) = Nothing, further
Now as to the matter of censure
1) Dal will have his right to test removed for the reminder of the cylce
2) all fines imposed as previousl discuss
3) The removal of at least one fancy maneuver for the remainder of the cycle. In the ring of challenge as well as the arena.
4) It shall be written into the history books for all to see in hope they will nae take the obligation of meeting their challenges lightly
::Signed simply::
Seamus
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:30:21 EDT
::Asking a messenger to post the note for him, he writes::
>B) As to Huma's right to challenge again this cycle.
> (1) Said right should be revoked.
> (2) Said right should be revoked only in regard to the Overlord
> (3) Huma should retain his right to challenge
> (4) Other.. please explain.
I started to vote until I got here.
I will make this known to the council and to the public, but I am abstaining from this whole phase because of option 3. Kalamere stated in a previous post that I lacked honor because of my decision. The barons chose option A because of Huma's oath. Yet, he has the right to challenge, including Dal?
I can't say much else without starting to fling mud, but I figured it might be an interesting fact to point out. I just wonder why my honor is questioned, when the option to let Huma challenge again was presented by the one who called me honorless, himself.
I guess we're back at phase 1... Can Huma and Dal fight a rematch? Having my honor insulted as such, I'm not going to dignify this phase when my "honorless" vote is still an option, when it was an option in the previous phase.
So, for the curious, I'm abstaining.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:30:21 EDT
::Asking a messenger to post the note for him, he writes::
>B) As to Huma's right to challenge again this cycle.
> (1) Said right should be revoked.
> (2) Said right should be revoked only in regard to the Overlord
> (3) Huma should retain his right to challenge
> (4) Other.. please explain.
I started to vote until I got here.
I will make this known to the council and to the public, but I am abstaining from this whole phase because of option 3. Kalamere stated in a previous post that I lacked honor because of my decision. The barons chose option A because of Huma's oath. Yet, he has the right to challenge, including Dal?
I can't say much else without starting to fling mud, but I figured it might be an interesting fact to point out. I just wonder why my honor is questioned, when the option to let Huma challenge again was presented by the one who called me honorless, himself.
I guess we're back at phase 1... Can Huma and Dal fight a rematch? Having my honor insulted as such, I'm not going to dignify this phase when my "honorless" vote is still an option, when it was an option in the previous phase.
So, for the curious, I'm abstaining.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: jakvaltrds@aol.com (Jakvaltrds)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:40:00 EDT
Pardon the error as the following was in response to Kal not that which appeared in the above post.
Kalamere,
you read correctly
Had I not read the Warlords own words that he would break his vow made before the community, I would have offered him a chance to withdraw on his own. As he has recanted his oath, I will not vote him the opportunity
Seamus.
Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:40:00 EDT
Pardon the error as the following was in response to Kal not that which appeared in the above post.
Kalamere,
you read correctly
Had I not read the Warlords own words that he would break his vow made before the community, I would have offered him a chance to withdraw on his own. As he has recanted his oath, I will not vote him the opportunity
Seamus.
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From: falablah@aol.com (Falablah)
Date: 16 Oct 1998 23:18:42 EDT
I'm not sure if this is open to public discussion or not but i felt the need to say something. I rarely post here anymore because of all the junk and this is my first post on the subject, but as a witness to what happened i'm rather confused.
"As the vote stands at present, there are 8 votes in favor of allowing Dalamar to retain the crown without facing Huma."
Let me get this straight.....Dal fails to show up for the callenge..its ruled a forfeit. Huma had a honor match with Jeff afterwards that shouldn't have any affect on the decision (because the only punishment for not holding up to your side of the deal is loosing your honor).....and Dal keeps his title without a duel? Does this mean that if i make baron someday i can fail to show up to my defense for whatever reason and still keep my title without a
fight? Can someone enlighten me on how this whole not dueling but keeping title thing works out?
~Falablah Dalegate~
~Emerald, Mage,Grand Master~
~Former Opal~
~Resident of the Outback~
~La de de da da....whowa whowa~
Date: 16 Oct 1998 23:18:42 EDT
I'm not sure if this is open to public discussion or not but i felt the need to say something. I rarely post here anymore because of all the junk and this is my first post on the subject, but as a witness to what happened i'm rather confused.
"As the vote stands at present, there are 8 votes in favor of allowing Dalamar to retain the crown without facing Huma."
Let me get this straight.....Dal fails to show up for the callenge..its ruled a forfeit. Huma had a honor match with Jeff afterwards that shouldn't have any affect on the decision (because the only punishment for not holding up to your side of the deal is loosing your honor).....and Dal keeps his title without a duel? Does this mean that if i make baron someday i can fail to show up to my defense for whatever reason and still keep my title without a
fight? Can someone enlighten me on how this whole not dueling but keeping title thing works out?
~Falablah Dalegate~
~Emerald, Mage,Grand Master~
~Former Opal~
~Resident of the Outback~
~La de de da da....whowa whowa~
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 00:57:07 EDT
Gentles,
Merely to keep the record straight I should wish to note.
M'lord Kalamere made comment to whit:
"First, as to the question I posed in my previous missive, I would find Huma and Jeff's duel to be a Duel of Honor, rather than a Loyalist Intercession. It is a difficult matter to decide, but I believe the turning point on my thoughts is that there was no possibility of Renegade intervention in this duel. Without this counterbalance, I cannot deem it a fair use of the Loyalists' rights."
With humble respect to thee, Baron Kalamere, the Renegade Baron Magnus was present during the evening before and following the Duel of Honor. Therefore the possibility of intervention by a Renegade did exist had the Baron chosen to stepped forward.
Humbly,
Jona,
Common as they come.
Date: 17 Oct 1998 00:57:07 EDT
Gentles,
Merely to keep the record straight I should wish to note.
M'lord Kalamere made comment to whit:
"First, as to the question I posed in my previous missive, I would find Huma and Jeff's duel to be a Duel of Honor, rather than a Loyalist Intercession. It is a difficult matter to decide, but I believe the turning point on my thoughts is that there was no possibility of Renegade intervention in this duel. Without this counterbalance, I cannot deem it a fair use of the Loyalists' rights."
With humble respect to thee, Baron Kalamere, the Renegade Baron Magnus was present during the evening before and following the Duel of Honor. Therefore the possibility of intervention by a Renegade did exist had the Baron chosen to stepped forward.
Humbly,
Jona,
Common as they come.
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 01:32:15 EDT
::pens a quick note mostly to Var::
Var,
I find you much more honorable now, then I have ever found you before. It pleases me to see that you are a man who sticks by what he believes in and that you are looking at what needs to be looked at in this situation, and not the irrelevant.
Cletus
Confused
Guardian of Polaris
Humble Warlord of DoS
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 01:32:15 EDT
::pens a quick note mostly to Var::
Var,
I find you much more honorable now, then I have ever found you before. It pleases me to see that you are a man who sticks by what he believes in and that you are looking at what needs to be looked at in this situation, and not the irrelevant.
Cletus
Confused
Guardian of Polaris
Humble Warlord of DoS
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
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From: jakvaltrds@aol.com (Jakvaltrds)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 04:48:01 EDT
Esteemed Barons and officials
After a bottle of scotch and a serious bit of reflection on this matter I must speak or bust !! We are blinded by the truth here. We are missing the obvious.
A Challenge was made and it was not met due to whatever bloody reason you can name. A senior Baron, in an attempt to circumvent the council, did wager a ring tha' belongs to the DoS and now flames the warlord in order to smokescreen the council. I say were there honor, said Baron would nae ha'e a vote in this matter as his mind was made to ruin the warlord and protect Dalamar before we started to speak.
I will no longer be party to it. Should Huma press, tis his honor tha' be in question,.Should Dalamar walk away unscathed, it is ours.
I say make them fight or take the mantle from the overlords shoulders as in all fairness, tis the only answer.
Friendships aside, I did swear my loyalty to Rhy Din before tha' of Dalamar, and I intend to keep tha' vow
If the Overlord is nae punished for missing his match, and the walord takes the brunt I shall nae longer swear my loyalty to the crown
Belatedly,
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First Ring
Loyal to Rhy Din
Date: 17 Oct 1998 04:48:01 EDT
Esteemed Barons and officials
After a bottle of scotch and a serious bit of reflection on this matter I must speak or bust !! We are blinded by the truth here. We are missing the obvious.
A Challenge was made and it was not met due to whatever bloody reason you can name. A senior Baron, in an attempt to circumvent the council, did wager a ring tha' belongs to the DoS and now flames the warlord in order to smokescreen the council. I say were there honor, said Baron would nae ha'e a vote in this matter as his mind was made to ruin the warlord and protect Dalamar before we started to speak.
I will no longer be party to it. Should Huma press, tis his honor tha' be in question,.Should Dalamar walk away unscathed, it is ours.
I say make them fight or take the mantle from the overlords shoulders as in all fairness, tis the only answer.
Friendships aside, I did swear my loyalty to Rhy Din before tha' of Dalamar, and I intend to keep tha' vow
If the Overlord is nae punished for missing his match, and the walord takes the brunt I shall nae longer swear my loyalty to the crown
Belatedly,
Seamus Mac Donnaugh
Baron of the First Ring
Loyal to Rhy Din
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From: cygnetsera@aol.com (CygnetSera)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 10:46:17 EDT
Perusing the boards, a low whisper escapes her lips as she reads Baron Mac Donnaugh's post.
"amen"
Date: 17 Oct 1998 10:46:17 EDT
Perusing the boards, a low whisper escapes her lips as she reads Baron Mac Donnaugh's post.
"amen"
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 11:59:32 EDT
With humble respect to thee, Baron Kalamere, the Renegade Baron Magnus was present during the evening before and following the Duel of Honor. Therefore the possibility of intervention by a Renegade did exist had the Baron chosen to stepped forward. -Jonalyn
Madame Nenshen, Allow me to clear up this matter a bit further since you seem a touch confused. It is not the possibility that Kalamere referred to, but the given option. THe duel was between Jeff and Huma and as such cannot be called an intercession as Huma cannot be asked to wager hiw rights on someone else duel.
Can someone enlighten me on how this whole not dueling but keeping title thing works out?
A very good question, because as I recall this was the *Duel* of *Swords,* and not the *Test of Honor.* I believe a man should stand up to his word, but I also believe that an oath breaker is marked as not being worthy of trust for the rest of his or her life. As for a fine, on the overlord, tell me how that equates to being denied rights given you by law? If all Dalamar recieves is a fine then to leve any
greater punishment on Huma is patently unfair. Both men broke an oath, but the one with lesser power is given the greater punishment? Tell me Kalamere how this makes the council a body concerned with Justice and Fairness?
Constant,
~Brian Girvin
Date: 17 Oct 1998 11:59:32 EDT
With humble respect to thee, Baron Kalamere, the Renegade Baron Magnus was present during the evening before and following the Duel of Honor. Therefore the possibility of intervention by a Renegade did exist had the Baron chosen to stepped forward. -Jonalyn
Madame Nenshen, Allow me to clear up this matter a bit further since you seem a touch confused. It is not the possibility that Kalamere referred to, but the given option. THe duel was between Jeff and Huma and as such cannot be called an intercession as Huma cannot be asked to wager hiw rights on someone else duel.
Can someone enlighten me on how this whole not dueling but keeping title thing works out?
A very good question, because as I recall this was the *Duel* of *Swords,* and not the *Test of Honor.* I believe a man should stand up to his word, but I also believe that an oath breaker is marked as not being worthy of trust for the rest of his or her life. As for a fine, on the overlord, tell me how that equates to being denied rights given you by law? If all Dalamar recieves is a fine then to leve any
greater punishment on Huma is patently unfair. Both men broke an oath, but the one with lesser power is given the greater punishment? Tell me Kalamere how this makes the council a body concerned with Justice and Fairness?
Constant,
~Brian Girvin
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 12:37:55 EDT
Var,
There are two things I must address, the first of which is my insult. Were the council to chose to allow Huma to fight against Dalamar, I would be terribly ashamed. I believe, that as a group, we would then be telling the community that there is no value to honor.
That said, I was wrong to insult your honor. I do believe that you take too narrow a view of the situation before us, as well as what we might decide. But, as yet, I am wholly unjustified in questioning your honor. I spoke overly broad and do apologize.
The second thing I would address is your issue with the Ballot options I presented. Frankly, it would be bias of me to limit the possible choices. Option C, being the one you have issue with, is still a choice, even if I personally do not feel it is the one that should be chosen. I will continue to make my opinions known and will attempt to sway others to my way of thinking, but I shall not lie to you as to what the possible choices are.
The choice itself, is more legitimate than I think you view it. More so, I believe, than removing Huma's right to challenge at all for the cycle. It is my thought, and you appear to agree, that it is no better than a reschedule. The fact of the matter, however, is that had Huma been allowed to rescind his challenge he would still have his peer wins and the right to challenge this cycle. Thus, I could not in good conscience remove this from the
options before us.
I hope that you do reconsider your involvement here. As Morgan has already noted, I believe it is our duty to rule on all the matters before us. The very reason that the vote has been split up as it has is so that we may all address one issue at a time rather than following one option all the way, only to find it is not accepted by the rest of the council.
~Kalamere
Date: 17 Oct 1998 12:37:55 EDT
Var,
There are two things I must address, the first of which is my insult. Were the council to chose to allow Huma to fight against Dalamar, I would be terribly ashamed. I believe, that as a group, we would then be telling the community that there is no value to honor.
That said, I was wrong to insult your honor. I do believe that you take too narrow a view of the situation before us, as well as what we might decide. But, as yet, I am wholly unjustified in questioning your honor. I spoke overly broad and do apologize.
The second thing I would address is your issue with the Ballot options I presented. Frankly, it would be bias of me to limit the possible choices. Option C, being the one you have issue with, is still a choice, even if I personally do not feel it is the one that should be chosen. I will continue to make my opinions known and will attempt to sway others to my way of thinking, but I shall not lie to you as to what the possible choices are.
The choice itself, is more legitimate than I think you view it. More so, I believe, than removing Huma's right to challenge at all for the cycle. It is my thought, and you appear to agree, that it is no better than a reschedule. The fact of the matter, however, is that had Huma been allowed to rescind his challenge he would still have his peer wins and the right to challenge this cycle. Thus, I could not in good conscience remove this from the
options before us.
I hope that you do reconsider your involvement here. As Morgan has already noted, I believe it is our duty to rule on all the matters before us. The very reason that the vote has been split up as it has is so that we may all address one issue at a time rather than following one option all the way, only to find it is not accepted by the rest of the council.
~Kalamere
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 12:38:23 EDT
Walker,
As with Var, I believe you take too narrow a view. You also chose to view the decision as a punishment for Huma. I do not share this view. I see it as little more than holding the man to his word. Were I to be putting forth a punishment, I'd have suggested banning him from the arena. Such is not the case however, and I would agree that punishment itself is beyond the realm we should be venturing into.
The matter before us is not simply to judge the Overlord. It is to determine how the challenge match shall proceed. The option of saying it shall not proceed at all is among the base three choices listed in the standards of the sport. Hence, it is most certainly within our power to chose.
Your call to Helix is noble, but I believe unfounded. Calling down the authority of the Sport Supervisor makes this council itself illegitimate. If it were to be her decision alone, this body would not exist. The clause that gives veto rights to a combined petition from the sport supervisor and the proprietor of the Inn (aka: Thorn) is included so that they may repel only the worst of injustices. Were we to call for Huma's banishment, for
example.
Keep in mind also, that this is no speedy process. Since Helix must confer with Thorn, one who has seen none of this discussion thus far, and then debate the matter with him, it would be some time before we were given an answer. We would be hard pressed to finish this discussion within a week as we have been asked to do.
If we are overturned once this is through, then so be it. But please do not drag the process out longer than need be by abstaining from your vote. A majority of the council has put us at the point where we currently are. Your initial choice no longer an option, you still have plenty of opportunity to make yourself heard in the choices that remain. Do not silence yourself Sir, our decision as a whole should be made through open communication.
Respectfully,
~Kalamere...
Date: 17 Oct 1998 12:38:23 EDT
Walker,
As with Var, I believe you take too narrow a view. You also chose to view the decision as a punishment for Huma. I do not share this view. I see it as little more than holding the man to his word. Were I to be putting forth a punishment, I'd have suggested banning him from the arena. Such is not the case however, and I would agree that punishment itself is beyond the realm we should be venturing into.
The matter before us is not simply to judge the Overlord. It is to determine how the challenge match shall proceed. The option of saying it shall not proceed at all is among the base three choices listed in the standards of the sport. Hence, it is most certainly within our power to chose.
Your call to Helix is noble, but I believe unfounded. Calling down the authority of the Sport Supervisor makes this council itself illegitimate. If it were to be her decision alone, this body would not exist. The clause that gives veto rights to a combined petition from the sport supervisor and the proprietor of the Inn (aka: Thorn) is included so that they may repel only the worst of injustices. Were we to call for Huma's banishment, for
example.
Keep in mind also, that this is no speedy process. Since Helix must confer with Thorn, one who has seen none of this discussion thus far, and then debate the matter with him, it would be some time before we were given an answer. We would be hard pressed to finish this discussion within a week as we have been asked to do.
If we are overturned once this is through, then so be it. But please do not drag the process out longer than need be by abstaining from your vote. A majority of the council has put us at the point where we currently are. Your initial choice no longer an option, you still have plenty of opportunity to make yourself heard in the choices that remain. Do not silence yourself Sir, our decision as a whole should be made through open communication.
Respectfully,
~Kalamere...