From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 23:30:33 EDT
After readin' so many letters concernin' who and what ta support reguarding Dalamar, I can safely say we do not have 10 Loyal barons. Loyal barons do not need ta be fair and impartial, granted dey shouldn't make absurd choices, but if dey plan NOT ta offer 100% support of Dalamar given his unfortunate situation, dey should go renegade, or at very least neutral.
Perhaps some are so afraid if Loyal isn't deir title dey will be challenged. But some barons claiming Loyalty ta Dalamar, are not loyal at all.
~J
Loyalty? No. Neutrality? Very much so.
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From: gnimishrw@aol.com (Gnimish RW)
Date: 17 Oct 1998 23:50:34 EDT
Loyalty does not mean blindly agreeing with the Overlord in all matters.
A person can be loyal *and* disagree with the actions of the Overlord.
-Gnimish Gnimoi
Companion and Love to Cygnet Seraphin
Lord of House Gnimoi
Emperor of Shylasa
Warlord of DoS
Date: 17 Oct 1998 23:50:34 EDT
Loyalty does not mean blindly agreeing with the Overlord in all matters.
A person can be loyal *and* disagree with the actions of the Overlord.
-Gnimish Gnimoi
Companion and Love to Cygnet Seraphin
Lord of House Gnimoi
Emperor of Shylasa
Warlord of DoS
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 08:36:52 EDT
Should a person not be allowed to have their own thoughts, opinions, and convictions Jeff?
Date: 18 Oct 1998 08:36:52 EDT
Should a person not be allowed to have their own thoughts, opinions, and convictions Jeff?
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From: kenman9696@aol.com (Kenman9696)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 14:01:38 EDT
Aren't the barons there to hold order to things, provide another check and balanceto the DoS? Are the barons not a three party legislature of sorts. Where I come from, we have a three party legislature, one party sides with our president's views IN GENERAL, one party sides against our president's views IN GENERAL, one party tends to take the middle road. Just recently, a situation arose where there was a vote to determine whether or not our
President should be impeached. IN GENERAL, those from his political party sided with him, though SOME SIDED AGAINST. For the most part, those from the opposing party voted against him, and again, the independents took the middle road. All I'm saying here, is that sometimes, political alleigence is pushed aside by personal beliefs, and those who go against their own allies DO know the consequences, but they go with their hearts and minds anyway,
because they know what is right. So Baron Oakenshield, I guess that is my rebuttal to a post not even directed at me... I hope you all liked the analogy.
Talk to ya later,
Ken
Date: 18 Oct 1998 14:01:38 EDT
Aren't the barons there to hold order to things, provide another check and balanceto the DoS? Are the barons not a three party legislature of sorts. Where I come from, we have a three party legislature, one party sides with our president's views IN GENERAL, one party sides against our president's views IN GENERAL, one party tends to take the middle road. Just recently, a situation arose where there was a vote to determine whether or not our
President should be impeached. IN GENERAL, those from his political party sided with him, though SOME SIDED AGAINST. For the most part, those from the opposing party voted against him, and again, the independents took the middle road. All I'm saying here, is that sometimes, political alleigence is pushed aside by personal beliefs, and those who go against their own allies DO know the consequences, but they go with their hearts and minds anyway,
because they know what is right. So Baron Oakenshield, I guess that is my rebuttal to a post not even directed at me... I hope you all liked the analogy.
Talk to ya later,
Ken
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 16:43:53 EDT
Loyalty is not equatable to stupidity, fortunately for our Overlord.
~Lup
Date: 18 Oct 1998 16:43:53 EDT
Loyalty is not equatable to stupidity, fortunately for our Overlord.
~Lup
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 20:01:42 EDT
Ta da nameless one ((Brian didn't post his name :D)),
Loyalty as set forth in DoS is merely a political motion. We do not have ta agree with, believe in, or even like what Dal has ta say or do. But ta be a Loyalist baron is ta support him 100% in da political ring, without question. In my own case he is a friend and I do support much of his beliefs. However, I do not hold Loyal barons ta do da same. What I do expect is 100% loyalty in all matters political concerning our current Overlord Dalamar
Ar'Daumon. If "loyalist" barons cannot provide 100% loyalty, why can't dey just realign ta neutral or renegade? Does it pain a baron so much ta wear a different title, other dan dat of Loyal?
Loyalty should always come 100%, otherwise its not true loyalty. And just because yer Dalamar's friend, doesn't mean ya have ta stand loyal ta him. Its not wrong when friends enter da ring and inflict harm on one another in da name of sport. It would not be wrong ta stand against each other in a political forum. What I find wrong is when people claim Loyalty but later on show publically a stance dat is otherwise.
~J
Date: 18 Oct 1998 20:01:42 EDT
Ta da nameless one ((Brian didn't post his name :D)),
Loyalty as set forth in DoS is merely a political motion. We do not have ta agree with, believe in, or even like what Dal has ta say or do. But ta be a Loyalist baron is ta support him 100% in da political ring, without question. In my own case he is a friend and I do support much of his beliefs. However, I do not hold Loyal barons ta do da same. What I do expect is 100% loyalty in all matters political concerning our current Overlord Dalamar
Ar'Daumon. If "loyalist" barons cannot provide 100% loyalty, why can't dey just realign ta neutral or renegade? Does it pain a baron so much ta wear a different title, other dan dat of Loyal?
Loyalty should always come 100%, otherwise its not true loyalty. And just because yer Dalamar's friend, doesn't mean ya have ta stand loyal ta him. Its not wrong when friends enter da ring and inflict harm on one another in da name of sport. It would not be wrong ta stand against each other in a political forum. What I find wrong is when people claim Loyalty but later on show publically a stance dat is otherwise.
~J
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 20:55:11 EDT
Jeff I should have thought you would well know the stroke of my pen by now...
As for Loyalty, there is a loyalty higher than the Overlord. That is the sport.
If you cannot step away from your loyalty to Dalamar to vote objectively on matters taken to the Baron's council. Forgive me Jeff, but the Council is not, nor should it ever be a rubber stamp for any one person from my wife, to the overlord, to any renegade rag-tag group that seeks to cause trouble in this sport.
I mean no insult Jeff but honor requires that one step aside from *all* loyalties including husband and wife once one is placed as a judge or a juror. Kings have done no less because HONOR requires a higher price than unquestioning loyalty.
Perhaps this idea should be considered before the next council vote that you will, by your words always support the Overlord no matter what he shall do.
~Brian
Date: 18 Oct 1998 20:55:11 EDT
Jeff I should have thought you would well know the stroke of my pen by now...
As for Loyalty, there is a loyalty higher than the Overlord. That is the sport.
If you cannot step away from your loyalty to Dalamar to vote objectively on matters taken to the Baron's council. Forgive me Jeff, but the Council is not, nor should it ever be a rubber stamp for any one person from my wife, to the overlord, to any renegade rag-tag group that seeks to cause trouble in this sport.
I mean no insult Jeff but honor requires that one step aside from *all* loyalties including husband and wife once one is placed as a judge or a juror. Kings have done no less because HONOR requires a higher price than unquestioning loyalty.
Perhaps this idea should be considered before the next council vote that you will, by your words always support the Overlord no matter what he shall do.
~Brian
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From: cygnetsera@aol.com (CygnetSera)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:15:22 EDT
Reading Girvin's most recent post, the Seraph nods, silently dismayed that his voice seems dismissed, wondering if the Baron's Council, particularly Jeffrey and the Overlord, can sleep at night.
Cyggy thinks to herself, May the light of truth and justice guide Madame Helix, for her path will not be an easy one.
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:15:22 EDT
Reading Girvin's most recent post, the Seraph nods, silently dismayed that his voice seems dismissed, wondering if the Baron's Council, particularly Jeffrey and the Overlord, can sleep at night.
Cyggy thinks to herself, May the light of truth and justice guide Madame Helix, for her path will not be an easy one.
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:20:52 EDT
Brian,
No rule forces a baron ta be loyal. My point is as follows. If ya cannot support what da Overlord does, don't be loyal. If ya believe I am wrong in my loyalty, its a different matter altogether. If ya want da title "Loyal Baron" support 100% EVERYTHING politically concerning Dalamar. Otherwise, realign yerself and vote accordingly.
~J
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:20:52 EDT
Brian,
No rule forces a baron ta be loyal. My point is as follows. If ya cannot support what da Overlord does, don't be loyal. If ya believe I am wrong in my loyalty, its a different matter altogether. If ya want da title "Loyal Baron" support 100% EVERYTHING politically concerning Dalamar. Otherwise, realign yerself and vote accordingly.
~J
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From: waikrboh@aol.com (WaIkrBoh)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:40:16 EDT
Jeff states that "No rule forces a baron ta be loyal."
Likewise, there is no rule that forces that:
"If ya want da title 'Loyal Baron' [you must] support 100% EVERYTHING politically concerning Dalamar"
If a Baron believes them to be Loyal and Dal agrees to the alignment by not realigning the Baron, the Baron is Loyal. People can profess their version of loyalty as long as they want, but as long as they are not the Overlord, they cannot force their definition upon Loyal Barons.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:40:16 EDT
Jeff states that "No rule forces a baron ta be loyal."
Likewise, there is no rule that forces that:
"If ya want da title 'Loyal Baron' [you must] support 100% EVERYTHING politically concerning Dalamar"
If a Baron believes them to be Loyal and Dal agrees to the alignment by not realigning the Baron, the Baron is Loyal. People can profess their version of loyalty as long as they want, but as long as they are not the Overlord, they cannot force their definition upon Loyal Barons.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 22:25:54 EDT
Did I ever say it was a rule Walker? No.
Is it how I believe a Loyal Baron should be? Yes.
Am I allowed ta post me beliefs publically? Yes.
Do ya have any other words ta put in me mouth? Maybe.
~J
Date: 18 Oct 1998 22:25:54 EDT
Did I ever say it was a rule Walker? No.
Is it how I believe a Loyal Baron should be? Yes.
Am I allowed ta post me beliefs publically? Yes.
Do ya have any other words ta put in me mouth? Maybe.
~J
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 18 Oct 1998 22:38:14 EDT
I say only this then, Baron Oakenshield...
The Lady Drakewyn Silvertree stands... Neutral.
I hearby remove myself from the political arguements surrounding the crown... unless I feel some words or actions threaten the -sport-, I will say nothing further on this subject.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
Date: 18 Oct 1998 22:38:14 EDT
I say only this then, Baron Oakenshield...
The Lady Drakewyn Silvertree stands... Neutral.
I hearby remove myself from the political arguements surrounding the crown... unless I feel some words or actions threaten the -sport-, I will say nothing further on this subject.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
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From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 07:50:16 EDT
All beings have their own opinions.
You stated not four months ago, upon my writing on a definition of loyalty, that being loyal was about friendship and not politics. In fact, as I recall, you scoffed at me for stating that loyalty was little more than a political alliance. Now you reverse yourself. Why has your hard stance changed so in that short span of time?
~Brian
Date: 19 Oct 1998 07:50:16 EDT
All beings have their own opinions.
You stated not four months ago, upon my writing on a definition of loyalty, that being loyal was about friendship and not politics. In fact, as I recall, you scoffed at me for stating that loyalty was little more than a political alliance. Now you reverse yourself. Why has your hard stance changed so in that short span of time?
~Brian
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From: cygnetsera@aol.com (CygnetSera)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 10:11:18 EDT
Reading her dear friend and captains note with Gnim, Cyggy whispers to her love,
"shall we stand neutral with Drake, Nimmy?"
Drakhan belches, nodding and slapping his tail from side to side.
The gnome glances down at the lizard and chuckles, "um, sure. I think Drakhan likes the idea. Dal sure ain't my Overlord, he's just Over-rated", continuing the chuckle while kicking the now drooling lizard.
"Hey, quit droolin' all over Cyggy's boots."
The Angel smiles, feeling content and at peace with her decision to follow Drakewyns lead.
Date: 19 Oct 1998 10:11:18 EDT
Reading her dear friend and captains note with Gnim, Cyggy whispers to her love,
"shall we stand neutral with Drake, Nimmy?"
Drakhan belches, nodding and slapping his tail from side to side.
The gnome glances down at the lizard and chuckles, "um, sure. I think Drakhan likes the idea. Dal sure ain't my Overlord, he's just Over-rated", continuing the chuckle while kicking the now drooling lizard.
"Hey, quit droolin' all over Cyggy's boots."
The Angel smiles, feeling content and at peace with her decision to follow Drakewyns lead.
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From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 11:23:30 EDT
::passing over the replies and notes he can't help but shake his head...starts to pen a reply and shakes his head again::
<m> not even worth it anymore to reply.
::walks away quietly::
(nap)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 11:23:30 EDT
::passing over the replies and notes he can't help but shake his head...starts to pen a reply and shakes his head again::
<m> not even worth it anymore to reply.
::walks away quietly::
(nap)