From: girvin@aol.com (GIRVIN)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 19:20:39 EDT
I had thought better of placing this here but I shall.
I will be judged no matter should I stay silent or speak my mind, and since I have great cause in the words of more than a few members of the Council of Baron to have hope that my words to not fall upon deaf ears so write I here. As the writings tell us, "Be not weary in well doing, for you shall reap in due season if you sow and faint not." Therefore I will speak my mind and know that it will only be counted as the voice of one man unless all
those that find truth in what I say stand and be counted. There is a time when one must ante up and kick like a soldier in the daily battles of life. With these thoughts in mind I place my pen to this parchment. The whole of DoS now has good reason to question the statment made by Baron Kalamere in which he called the Baron's Council a body of equity. I shall present my evidence and then continue my case:
"Quote all da dictionaries ya want, post paragraphs upon paragraphs of yer beliefs Brian, all I want is fer Dalamar ta be Overlord, and me ta be his loyal baron."
And so I shall read from my dictionary and put forth that by the statement of one member of this council, that it is a body of justice according to natural law or right; specifically : freedom from bias or favoritism.
Now I must ask you all to consider the words listed above from a sitting member of the Baron's council, and I must ask how can this body be free of bias with such being one of its members?
It is not my intention to attack the barons, nor the body they comprise. This is, I believe, an issue that must be addressed, and adderssed to the public of DoS. Herein are my questions:
1) Is the council to be a body of equity?
2) Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truely unimportant?
There are many that do believe that people not on the Baron's Council should not petition nor try and take part in such a discussion. I believe that to be wrong and self serving. Who has the greater numbers within their ranks, commoners or Barons? This is not one person's sport nor is it a small group's sport. It belongs to any person that has ever picked up a blade and stepped into a ring.
What I would like to see I cannot, for I must stand by my word that the Council has no place enforcing rules that do not exist. I would like to any member of the council who would make such a caloused and insulting a statment be striped of a vote, but then I would have to fight myself.
So what do I hope to accomplish? I do not know, but I hope that those who have sat, are seated, and will ever sit on the council do not count the community they represent as nothing more than people to be scoffed at and mocked. I hope to spread a bit of the belief that every voice matters, and that no one should count themselves as nothing because their ambition lies in a different area or their skill is not to the level of some. I pray, although
I know it to be futile, that people in this sport will understand that because one cannot agree with them does not mean one do not like them. I would hope that debate would never end, but those who's debate is comprised of insults and venom would find themselves outcast and dishonored. I hope for all the best things for the Duel of Swords and each of us that takes part in it.
Making these dreams a reality depends on each of us.
Constant,
~Brian Girvin
© G Irvin 1998 all rights reserved
With a heavy heart
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From: xgnortx@aol.com (X Gnort X)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 19:30:09 EDT
1) Is the council to be a body of equity?
Yes
2) Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truely unimportant?
No.
I hope this answers your questions.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
Date: 19 Oct 1998 19:30:09 EDT
1) Is the council to be a body of equity?
Yes
2) Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truely unimportant?
No.
I hope this answers your questions.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
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From: silentcris@aol.com (SilentCris)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 21:37:31 EDT
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.
Is the council to be a body of equity?
No. If any doubt this, please refer to my response to Kalamere's claim that the Council is a body of equity written on the 18th of September. It cannot be a body of equity since it was created to interpret rules, not justice.
Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truly unimportant?
One cannot fool themselves. While we each hold certain values and convictions important to ourselves, very few hold the values and convictions of others to be as equally important as their own, as evidenced by the recent decision of the Council. Opinions differ as often as snowflakes... while my opinion is important to myself, it is obvious that it is not important to many others. The same could be said for any of us. That is the fatal flaw of
what the Baron's Council has sought to do of late. They have harmed their reputation as a Council by focusing on the freakshow (this "Duel of Honor") and failing to focus on the matter at hand for which there had been countless cases of precedence before it.
Unfortunately, to many here, it appears the opinions and feelings of those around them do not mean as much as some hope they would.
Sincerely,
Cristian de Oro
Date: 19 Oct 1998 21:37:31 EDT
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.
Is the council to be a body of equity?
No. If any doubt this, please refer to my response to Kalamere's claim that the Council is a body of equity written on the 18th of September. It cannot be a body of equity since it was created to interpret rules, not justice.
Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truly unimportant?
One cannot fool themselves. While we each hold certain values and convictions important to ourselves, very few hold the values and convictions of others to be as equally important as their own, as evidenced by the recent decision of the Council. Opinions differ as often as snowflakes... while my opinion is important to myself, it is obvious that it is not important to many others. The same could be said for any of us. That is the fatal flaw of
what the Baron's Council has sought to do of late. They have harmed their reputation as a Council by focusing on the freakshow (this "Duel of Honor") and failing to focus on the matter at hand for which there had been countless cases of precedence before it.
Unfortunately, to many here, it appears the opinions and feelings of those around them do not mean as much as some hope they would.
Sincerely,
Cristian de Oro
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:48:34 EDT
Cristian wrote:
>They have harmed their reputation as a Council by focusing on the freakshow
>(this "Duel of Honor") and failing to focus on the matter at hand for which
>there had been countless cases of precedence before it.
::intended to be as dry as written words can convey::
Interesting how the majority of the people bringing up and focusing on the "Duel of Honor" are those opposed to it being brought up and focused on.
Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:48:34 EDT
Cristian wrote:
>They have harmed their reputation as a Council by focusing on the freakshow
>(this "Duel of Honor") and failing to focus on the matter at hand for which
>there had been countless cases of precedence before it.
::intended to be as dry as written words can convey::
Interesting how the majority of the people bringing up and focusing on the "Duel of Honor" are those opposed to it being brought up and focused on.
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 00:26:56 EDT
The common pauses as she peruses the missive. "Och, wee Marcus wouldst fetch th' 'eavy tome from behind th' bar, thank ye kindly." She flips through the pages, quirking a smile, "Och, 'ere tis." Snagging the quill she pens a note tacking it to the cork.
Master Girvin
Perhaps in thine readings thou hast nae come upon this:
Equity, body of legal principles and rules developed in the English Court of Chancery from the 15th century upon the place oft called Terra, to correct injustices caused by the rigidity and formalism of COMMON LAW. It implies application of the standard of what seems naturally just and right rather than the strict rules of law.
In answer to thine questions,
1. Is the council to be a body of equity? Aye.
2. Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truely (sic) unimportant?
Nay.
Cordially,
Jona
Date: 20 Oct 1998 00:26:56 EDT
The common pauses as she peruses the missive. "Och, wee Marcus wouldst fetch th' 'eavy tome from behind th' bar, thank ye kindly." She flips through the pages, quirking a smile, "Och, 'ere tis." Snagging the quill she pens a note tacking it to the cork.
Master Girvin
Perhaps in thine readings thou hast nae come upon this:
Equity, body of legal principles and rules developed in the English Court of Chancery from the 15th century upon the place oft called Terra, to correct injustices caused by the rigidity and formalism of COMMON LAW. It implies application of the standard of what seems naturally just and right rather than the strict rules of law.
In answer to thine questions,
1. Is the council to be a body of equity? Aye.
2. Are the opinions and feelings of the majority of DoS truely (sic) unimportant?
Nay.
Cordially,
Jona
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From: silentcris@aol.com (SilentCris)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 00:34:05 EDT
"Interesting how the majority of the people bringing up and focusing on the "Duel of Honor" are those opposed to it being brought up and focused on."
::scrawled beneath the observance::
The duel needs to be brought up as the Council seeks to place focus on it. Continual references are evidence to be presented. Should they disregard the duel as they should, no one would need to bring it up in matters concerning rules.
Until then, it will be cited in conjunction with pretty much any reference to the Baronial Council. For all the good they've done in the past, the current incarnation of the Council seems to be the one that will be remembered when Dalamar's reign is looked back upon. And that is quite unfortunate.
CdO
Date: 20 Oct 1998 00:34:05 EDT
"Interesting how the majority of the people bringing up and focusing on the "Duel of Honor" are those opposed to it being brought up and focused on."
::scrawled beneath the observance::
The duel needs to be brought up as the Council seeks to place focus on it. Continual references are evidence to be presented. Should they disregard the duel as they should, no one would need to bring it up in matters concerning rules.
Until then, it will be cited in conjunction with pretty much any reference to the Baronial Council. For all the good they've done in the past, the current incarnation of the Council seems to be the one that will be remembered when Dalamar's reign is looked back upon. And that is quite unfortunate.
CdO
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From: te1eperien@aol.com (Te1eperien)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 01:32:44 EDT
::standing for a long time in front of the board.. reading the various notes, insults and plain childishness.. she hesitates..but picks up a pen.. jots her own comments..::
I have read the events.. and tried to pick out the truth.. the manner of honor and integrity questioned and examined. What I have gathered is that the Overlord missed a challenge for a matter of utmost importance, to be at the bedside of his dying father. The challenger more intent more intent upon his challenge than to prove himself to be of high character and agree to the solution of a reschedule. It matters not if the other is of dishonor and
untrustworthy character. If the Overlord was indeed dishonoring his commitment, would not an honorable act only show understanding?
I am grieved at the words and names that have been exchanged.. and grieved at the lack of compassion. The Overlord has agreed to lay his fate at the feet of the barons. An act that could cost him his crown. He has done with without flinching.
In my eyes.. that shows a greater strength.
~Teleperien~
Queen of Eldicor
Date: 20 Oct 1998 01:32:44 EDT
::standing for a long time in front of the board.. reading the various notes, insults and plain childishness.. she hesitates..but picks up a pen.. jots her own comments..::
I have read the events.. and tried to pick out the truth.. the manner of honor and integrity questioned and examined. What I have gathered is that the Overlord missed a challenge for a matter of utmost importance, to be at the bedside of his dying father. The challenger more intent more intent upon his challenge than to prove himself to be of high character and agree to the solution of a reschedule. It matters not if the other is of dishonor and
untrustworthy character. If the Overlord was indeed dishonoring his commitment, would not an honorable act only show understanding?
I am grieved at the words and names that have been exchanged.. and grieved at the lack of compassion. The Overlord has agreed to lay his fate at the feet of the barons. An act that could cost him his crown. He has done with without flinching.
In my eyes.. that shows a greater strength.
~Teleperien~
Queen of Eldicor
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 02:30:52 EDT
::smiles gently at Tele's words and writes below it::
Here here.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
Date: 20 Oct 1998 02:30:52 EDT
::smiles gently at Tele's words and writes below it::
Here here.
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
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From: cygnetsera@aol.com (CygnetSera)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 09:24:23 EDT
The gnome and seraph continue to stop by the arena, reading the boards with interest.
"BAH!", Gnim startles Cyggy with his grumble.
"Lookie what Tele wrote, 'The Overlord has agreed to lay his fate at the feet of the barons. An act that could cost him his crown. He has done with without flinching.',
now if that ain't the truth...Dal *has* agreed to lay his fate at the stinkin' feet of the Barons, whose feet he washes with his politics and stuff.", the gnome laughs and continues,
"Dal's not flinching because he knows that he's above the law in the eyes of his ever faithful lap dog Barons. He should stand up like a man and jus' duel Huma!", shaking his head with a chuckle.
Cygnet, busy flipping through the *antique weapons* section, turns and looks at the gnome with a sweet expression, "did you say something?"
Drakhan (the gnomes pet dragon/lizard) makes a sound similar to that of a cat coughing up a fur ball as he rolls over on his scaled back in a fit of amusement.
Date: 20 Oct 1998 09:24:23 EDT
The gnome and seraph continue to stop by the arena, reading the boards with interest.
"BAH!", Gnim startles Cyggy with his grumble.
"Lookie what Tele wrote, 'The Overlord has agreed to lay his fate at the feet of the barons. An act that could cost him his crown. He has done with without flinching.',
now if that ain't the truth...Dal *has* agreed to lay his fate at the stinkin' feet of the Barons, whose feet he washes with his politics and stuff.", the gnome laughs and continues,
"Dal's not flinching because he knows that he's above the law in the eyes of his ever faithful lap dog Barons. He should stand up like a man and jus' duel Huma!", shaking his head with a chuckle.
Cygnet, busy flipping through the *antique weapons* section, turns and looks at the gnome with a sweet expression, "did you say something?"
Drakhan (the gnomes pet dragon/lizard) makes a sound similar to that of a cat coughing up a fur ball as he rolls over on his scaled back in a fit of amusement.
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From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 10:55:21 EDT
As it so happens, just as Gnimish makes his comment about Lap dogs a lonely dwarf happens upon the corkboard.
Lap dogs? How easy it is for you and the rest to stand by and make judgement. Do you think all that goes on in this council is cut and dry? Do you think it is easy? No one is above the law, not Dal not anyone. I am damn sick and tired of hearing you people casting judgment on the Loyal Baron's. Constantly calling us Lap Dogs. Grow up. Can you find nothing better to do then chastise us? Alot of bridges have been burned throughout these discussions.
You people that only come by the corkboard and make judgements have alot of nerve. Ever hear the saying If you don't have something nice to say....don't say anything?
The dwarf shakes his head disgusted and walks away.
Date: 20 Oct 1998 10:55:21 EDT
As it so happens, just as Gnimish makes his comment about Lap dogs a lonely dwarf happens upon the corkboard.
Lap dogs? How easy it is for you and the rest to stand by and make judgement. Do you think all that goes on in this council is cut and dry? Do you think it is easy? No one is above the law, not Dal not anyone. I am damn sick and tired of hearing you people casting judgment on the Loyal Baron's. Constantly calling us Lap Dogs. Grow up. Can you find nothing better to do then chastise us? Alot of bridges have been burned throughout these discussions.
You people that only come by the corkboard and make judgements have alot of nerve. Ever hear the saying If you don't have something nice to say....don't say anything?
The dwarf shakes his head disgusted and walks away.
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From: qxz137@aol.com (QXZ137)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 17:19:42 EDT
<<They have harmed their reputation as a Council by focusing on the freakshow (this "Duel of Honor") and failing to focus on the matter at hand for which there had been countless cases of precedence before it. >>
And no matter how many times that they deny that, we shall continue to accuse them of that bias. Good logic, folks!
--Commander Quizxs Xysar Zzaasdp
Common Guy, 3-4-0
Once Swordsman
I have a challenge match against another Commoner.
Only, if I don't show, the world won't divide into a flame war.
Date: 20 Oct 1998 17:19:42 EDT
<<They have harmed their reputation as a Council by focusing on the freakshow (this "Duel of Honor") and failing to focus on the matter at hand for which there had been countless cases of precedence before it. >>
And no matter how many times that they deny that, we shall continue to accuse them of that bias. Good logic, folks!
--Commander Quizxs Xysar Zzaasdp
Common Guy, 3-4-0
Once Swordsman
I have a challenge match against another Commoner.
Only, if I don't show, the world won't divide into a flame war.
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 20 Oct 1998 19:50:59 EDT
::raises another eyebrow (probably about the 5th so far, and counting)::
Lap dog? ::smirks:: Close...but I'm no dog.
::writes::
While I'm not a dog, I can certainly attest to the comfort of Dal's lap.
Have a nice day,
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
Date: 20 Oct 1998 19:50:59 EDT
::raises another eyebrow (probably about the 5th so far, and counting)::
Lap dog? ::smirks:: Close...but I'm no dog.
::writes::
While I'm not a dog, I can certainly attest to the comfort of Dal's lap.
Have a nice day,
~Sidartha Elgarette~
Mistress-At-Arms
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From: silentcris@aol.com (SilentCris)
Date: 21 Oct 1998 00:49:16 EDT
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.
It seems many of you seek to take my words out of context, so allow me to explain, one final time, what I am saying here. What Huma Dragonbane did was reprehensible in a moral sense. What happened to the Overlord's father was the truest of tragedies.
However, and here is the unfortunate part, an impartial Council would be unable to take the first statement into account when deciding on what should happen to the Overlord. Plain and simple, nowhere is it written that the Council shall decide matters unrelated to the task at hand (this would include sanctions against Huma Dragonbane... sanctions being stripping him of his peer wins and challenge ability). However, it seems the rules are being
rewritten and the Council can now deal with morality... in this case, it is favorable in a moral sense. The Overlord is not punished for unavoidable tragedy and the dishonorable Warlord ends up without a chance at taking the seat from the Overlord in his grief. I can only pray it does not open the way for situations none of us may like.
Cristian de Oro
Date: 21 Oct 1998 00:49:16 EDT
From the desk of Cristian de Oro
Director of Archaeology; Black Friday, Inc.
It seems many of you seek to take my words out of context, so allow me to explain, one final time, what I am saying here. What Huma Dragonbane did was reprehensible in a moral sense. What happened to the Overlord's father was the truest of tragedies.
However, and here is the unfortunate part, an impartial Council would be unable to take the first statement into account when deciding on what should happen to the Overlord. Plain and simple, nowhere is it written that the Council shall decide matters unrelated to the task at hand (this would include sanctions against Huma Dragonbane... sanctions being stripping him of his peer wins and challenge ability). However, it seems the rules are being
rewritten and the Council can now deal with morality... in this case, it is favorable in a moral sense. The Overlord is not punished for unavoidable tragedy and the dishonorable Warlord ends up without a chance at taking the seat from the Overlord in his grief. I can only pray it does not open the way for situations none of us may like.
Cristian de Oro
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 21 Oct 1998 20:41:38 EDT
>>However, it seems the rules are being
rewritten and the Council can now deal with morality...<<
::reads this part and rolls her eyes::
What a shame...
Date: 21 Oct 1998 20:41:38 EDT
>>However, it seems the rules are being
rewritten and the Council can now deal with morality...<<
::reads this part and rolls her eyes::
What a shame...