From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:53:21 EST
>WHAT CHOICE DID DAL HAVE? WHAT COULD HE HAVE DONE?
What could he have done? He did enough by announcing his reason of why he didn't show. That changed many of the votes on the coucil, or that is my guess at least. I was told during the Clutch event to ignore his reason for not showing. Dal's seems to have changed a lot of the decisions.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Change of Alignment
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xgnortx@aol.com (X Gnort X)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:56:04 EST
Here we go again, comparing Clutch, who couldn't tell time, to Dal, who's father passed away.
Oh my gods, What were we on teh council thinking???? Lets get the rope and tar and feathers, we gotta string Dal up for being so dranned evil!!!!!!
::smirks::
Wonder how many of these people take me serious.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:56:04 EST
Here we go again, comparing Clutch, who couldn't tell time, to Dal, who's father passed away.
Oh my gods, What were we on teh council thinking???? Lets get the rope and tar and feathers, we gotta string Dal up for being so dranned evil!!!!!!
::smirks::
Wonder how many of these people take me serious.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:57:21 EST
Magnus, you're perception and logic astounds. Of *course* Dalamar's announcement that his father had died was a ploy to convert the council! It boarders on brilliant! I'm glad you finally got to the root of the conspiracy. Dalamar is quite a sly manipulator, I almost thought the Barons were capable of making their own decisions.. how is it, by the way, that you were not swayed by his devious ploy..?
Curious, even if sarcasm is hinted,
-- Lucian
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:57:21 EST
Magnus, you're perception and logic astounds. Of *course* Dalamar's announcement that his father had died was a ploy to convert the council! It boarders on brilliant! I'm glad you finally got to the root of the conspiracy. Dalamar is quite a sly manipulator, I almost thought the Barons were capable of making their own decisions.. how is it, by the way, that you were not swayed by his devious ploy..?
Curious, even if sarcasm is hinted,
-- Lucian
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:02:28 EST
Gnort,
Whats wrong with comparing this to Clutch? Its the same thing, they both didn't show for a match. Now Clutch loses his peers and right to challenge, as Dal gets a fine defense. Why is this?
Lucian,
Conspiracy? Your missing the point. His father my have passed on, but he still missed a match. We all know that no one else would have received so lenient a punishment as 10,000 gold coins.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:02:28 EST
Gnort,
Whats wrong with comparing this to Clutch? Its the same thing, they both didn't show for a match. Now Clutch loses his peers and right to challenge, as Dal gets a fine defense. Why is this?
Lucian,
Conspiracy? Your missing the point. His father my have passed on, but he still missed a match. We all know that no one else would have received so lenient a punishment as 10,000 gold coins.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xgnortx@aol.com (X Gnort X)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:04:59 EST
Sure Magnus, I'll tell you the difference.
Take a challenge and let your father die right before it, then tell me if that compares to not being able to read a clock.
It's so damned obvious. Am I the only one with intellegence enough to see that?
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:04:59 EST
Sure Magnus, I'll tell you the difference.
Take a challenge and let your father die right before it, then tell me if that compares to not being able to read a clock.
It's so damned obvious. Am I the only one with intellegence enough to see that?
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:05:30 EST
Magnus, your contention was about what he did. What he could have done, if I remember correctly. How did the subject now change to the punishment the council gave him? It seems like whatever the council decided was *their* doing, not Dalamar's. I could of course have missed the part where he got to vote for them, so please refresh my memory..
--Lucian
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:05:30 EST
Magnus, your contention was about what he did. What he could have done, if I remember correctly. How did the subject now change to the punishment the council gave him? It seems like whatever the council decided was *their* doing, not Dalamar's. I could of course have missed the part where he got to vote for them, so please refresh my memory..
--Lucian
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:08:58 EST
Lucian,
Maybe he could have voted for all his loyals. Who knows if they hang on his every command, which they might. So in a way, it is possible that he could have voted.
Gnort,
Don't think I don't see your point, because I do. The fact still remains though, that he did miss a challenge match, for whatever reason it was. Whether his father died, whether he couldn't tell time, or whether he just forgot.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:08:58 EST
Lucian,
Maybe he could have voted for all his loyals. Who knows if they hang on his every command, which they might. So in a way, it is possible that he could have voted.
Gnort,
Don't think I don't see your point, because I do. The fact still remains though, that he did miss a challenge match, for whatever reason it was. Whether his father died, whether he couldn't tell time, or whether he just forgot.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:12:42 EST
Just as a reference to the "it doesn't matter why" attitude, consider this. I kill you, because I don't like you. I am put in a dungeon for life if not killed outright. Secondly, I kill you because you're trying to run me through with a sword. Under most laws, I am absolved by acting in self defense. The laws and the "rules" do at times take into consideration the surrounding circumstance, so, it is *not* the
same. As to your other comment about voting, I won't waste good ink pointing out the weakness of it.
-- Lucian
Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:12:42 EST
Just as a reference to the "it doesn't matter why" attitude, consider this. I kill you, because I don't like you. I am put in a dungeon for life if not killed outright. Secondly, I kill you because you're trying to run me through with a sword. Under most laws, I am absolved by acting in self defense. The laws and the "rules" do at times take into consideration the surrounding circumstance, so, it is *not* the
same. As to your other comment about voting, I won't waste good ink pointing out the weakness of it.
-- Lucian
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:22:32 EST
This is all really pathetic.
First off i am sick and tired of seeing the term lap-dog. If anyone out there thinks I'm some kind of lap-dog, what is stopping you from comming and taking my ring away huh? You don't like someone that is loyal to a FRIEND, a word many of you seem to have lost the meaning of, then come and take my ring. Yes Dalamar interceeded on my first defense. Won't happen on the second. How much longer will we debate the Council's decision?? It's been rendered
and it is over. Nothing will change what happened. Nothing will reverse what WE on the council voted on. Quit whining and move on to another topic.
A very annoyed
Gimzak
Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:22:32 EST
This is all really pathetic.
First off i am sick and tired of seeing the term lap-dog. If anyone out there thinks I'm some kind of lap-dog, what is stopping you from comming and taking my ring away huh? You don't like someone that is loyal to a FRIEND, a word many of you seem to have lost the meaning of, then come and take my ring. Yes Dalamar interceeded on my first defense. Won't happen on the second. How much longer will we debate the Council's decision?? It's been rendered
and it is over. Nothing will change what happened. Nothing will reverse what WE on the council voted on. Quit whining and move on to another topic.
A very annoyed
Gimzak
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xgnortx@aol.com (X Gnort X)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:41:31 EST
Well Gim,
You see it's like this. The masses didn't agree with our decision because they aren't able to defeat Dal, so what they did is they verbally attack us, his Barons with terms such as Lap Dogs to make up for their shortcomings.
Simple as that.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:41:31 EST
Well Gim,
You see it's like this. The masses didn't agree with our decision because they aren't able to defeat Dal, so what they did is they verbally attack us, his Barons with terms such as Lap Dogs to make up for their shortcomings.
Simple as that.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
"When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master"
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 27 Oct 1998 00:01:09 EST
<<basically what he said in so many words>>
He did not say anything of the sort to me.
Date: 27 Oct 1998 00:01:09 EST
<<basically what he said in so many words>>
He did not say anything of the sort to me.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 27 Oct 1998 00:52:37 EST
Lucian writes: Under most laws, I am absolved by acting in self defense. The laws and the "rules" do at times take into consideration the surrounding circumstance, so, it is *not* the same.
I hate having to keep saying this, but the Laws are the Laws. Circumstance is -only- figured in during sentancing, which is the pervue of Justice.
Let's look at this objectively.
Four persons: A, B, C and D are all accused of the same crimes... what the crime is does not matter in this discussion. They are all told to appear before the local magistrate upon a certain date and at a certain time. On the appointed day and hour, only person A has arrived. The magistrate is naturally upset, but goes through with the trial for A. In addition, as -required- by the laws of the land, he charges B, C and D with Contempt of
Court, a serious offence. Person B arrives over an hour late, after the magistrate has left... but a few officials of the court still there. B claims that he is "just late" and that he forgot the proper time. Person C arrives an hour later... He tells everyone that he was unable to attend because he was attending his Father's funeral. Person D doesn't arrive until court is held the next day, and refuses to offer an explination.
Now... B, C and D are all -still- guilty of breaking the law of Contempt of Court. However, with Justice in mind, the magistrate throws out the charge against C. The three people must still be tried for the original crimes, but C is excused from the charge of Contempt of Court.
I sincerely hope this example helps clear up the differences between Law and Justice, as well as the comparison between Dal, Clutch and Darkness.
I thank you for your time.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
Date: 27 Oct 1998 00:52:37 EST
Lucian writes: Under most laws, I am absolved by acting in self defense. The laws and the "rules" do at times take into consideration the surrounding circumstance, so, it is *not* the same.
I hate having to keep saying this, but the Laws are the Laws. Circumstance is -only- figured in during sentancing, which is the pervue of Justice.
Let's look at this objectively.
Four persons: A, B, C and D are all accused of the same crimes... what the crime is does not matter in this discussion. They are all told to appear before the local magistrate upon a certain date and at a certain time. On the appointed day and hour, only person A has arrived. The magistrate is naturally upset, but goes through with the trial for A. In addition, as -required- by the laws of the land, he charges B, C and D with Contempt of
Court, a serious offence. Person B arrives over an hour late, after the magistrate has left... but a few officials of the court still there. B claims that he is "just late" and that he forgot the proper time. Person C arrives an hour later... He tells everyone that he was unable to attend because he was attending his Father's funeral. Person D doesn't arrive until court is held the next day, and refuses to offer an explination.
Now... B, C and D are all -still- guilty of breaking the law of Contempt of Court. However, with Justice in mind, the magistrate throws out the charge against C. The three people must still be tried for the original crimes, but C is excused from the charge of Contempt of Court.
I sincerely hope this example helps clear up the differences between Law and Justice, as well as the comparison between Dal, Clutch and Darkness.
I thank you for your time.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: sircassius@aol.com (SirCassius)
Date: 27 Oct 1998 01:16:51 EST
<I hate having to keep saying this, but the Laws are the Laws. Circumstance is -only- figured in during sentancing, which is the pervue of Justice>
Well written, Drake. Well written. And this shows why Dal was not as severly punished as other cases in history. His father died for God's sake. This shows that he had better purpose in not showing up for the duel. Although he DID break the LAW, the JUSTICE will be more linient in its sentencing, just like Lucian's example with self defense. Or perhaps comparing murder to involuntary manslaughter. While someone guilty of involuntary WILL be
punished (As Dal was) the commiter of murder will obviously be punished in a more severe manner. So, we take into account that Dal's breaking of the law is more like, say, involuntary manslaughter as opposed to murder. Also, he is the frickin overlord. But, I digress.
Sincerely, and not meaning to step on toes:
Sir Leo Caius Cassius Pride
Once Loyal Baron to Lord Dalamar, a very honorable overlord.
And current Warlord of DoS (who considers himself still Loyal)
Date: 27 Oct 1998 01:16:51 EST
<I hate having to keep saying this, but the Laws are the Laws. Circumstance is -only- figured in during sentancing, which is the pervue of Justice>
Well written, Drake. Well written. And this shows why Dal was not as severly punished as other cases in history. His father died for God's sake. This shows that he had better purpose in not showing up for the duel. Although he DID break the LAW, the JUSTICE will be more linient in its sentencing, just like Lucian's example with self defense. Or perhaps comparing murder to involuntary manslaughter. While someone guilty of involuntary WILL be
punished (As Dal was) the commiter of murder will obviously be punished in a more severe manner. So, we take into account that Dal's breaking of the law is more like, say, involuntary manslaughter as opposed to murder. Also, he is the frickin overlord. But, I digress.
Sincerely, and not meaning to step on toes:
Sir Leo Caius Cassius Pride
Once Loyal Baron to Lord Dalamar, a very honorable overlord.
And current Warlord of DoS (who considers himself still Loyal)
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 27 Oct 1998 01:46:40 EST
Gnort,
I understand that, but I can still rant about it. I mean it does get tired after awhile.
Date: 27 Oct 1998 01:46:40 EST
Gnort,
I understand that, but I can still rant about it. I mean it does get tired after awhile.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: dukeuziei@aol.com (Duke UzieI)
Date: 27 Oct 1998 02:05:10 EST
>>The sad thing is there are more people like Agrenish, Skyler, Seraph, Adonai, Anon, Daniel, Richard, Jake Heart than there are of normal, rational people.<<
Strangely enough I've been rather silent on this issue and somehow I get lumped into this rather messy category of individuals.
Morgan, let me ask you this. What is more irrational? To hold your own opinions and believe what you choose to believe. Or to defame anothers character out of the misconcieved notion of ones own judgement of a person being wrong?
I can assure you that yes, there have been times my heart has lead my head. But I can also assure you that I am in no way irrational or out of my mind per se.
Needless to say I am rather insulted by your generalized perception of me and I invite you to do as I have done with many before. Know me more and judge me less.
Be Well,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of RhyDin
Date: 27 Oct 1998 02:05:10 EST
>>The sad thing is there are more people like Agrenish, Skyler, Seraph, Adonai, Anon, Daniel, Richard, Jake Heart than there are of normal, rational people.<<
Strangely enough I've been rather silent on this issue and somehow I get lumped into this rather messy category of individuals.
Morgan, let me ask you this. What is more irrational? To hold your own opinions and believe what you choose to believe. Or to defame anothers character out of the misconcieved notion of ones own judgement of a person being wrong?
I can assure you that yes, there have been times my heart has lead my head. But I can also assure you that I am in no way irrational or out of my mind per se.
Needless to say I am rather insulted by your generalized perception of me and I invite you to do as I have done with many before. Know me more and judge me less.
Be Well,
~Adonai Uziel
~DragonLord of RhyDin