From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 03 Jan 1999 22:58:38 EST
::Tom wanders to the boards after slamming his fist onto a table, he angrily writes::
Hipocracy being a simple word here. Whenever I believe there is actually a good match to determine who shall become or remain Overlord; Lord Dalamar intercedes. Recently, or tonight shall I say, I witnessed one of these events. This is where I refer to Dalamar being a hipocrite. Jeff, Interceded to test the baron Magnus. Despite the fact that Huma Dragonbane interceeded on behalf of Magnus is irrelevant.
Please DO correct me if I am wrong here, but I do believe that Dalamar said that he would no longer test barons. HELLO? What was this? A friendly duel perhaps?
Then we come to the reasons: Kalamere relieved Dalamar of his oath. I could put this into an analogy, but I do not need to waste your, or my time; I believe the point is clear. You cannot as a friend or anyone else personally erase or relieve something that someone said.
I do not offer this post as an attack, nor do I wish this to turn into a 3 billion chain post creating a million other attacks. Yet that will happen. It boils down to one question: Can we trust Dal?
~Tom
Hipocracy
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From: waikrboh@aol.com (WaIkrBoh)
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:16:58 EST
> It boils down to one question: Can we trust Dal?
I myself can trust Dal to do what ever he feels necessary and appropriate to maintain his crown as the Overlord and Supreme Dueler of the Duel of Swords. How he goes about doing this has been made too much of a concern by come folks, however, including yourself, Tom.
When Dal said he would no longer test Barons, it seems that he meant that was the case until he changed his mind. It certainly was rude to test Magnus without telling the community that he had changed his mind, but I will not hold it against him any more than the rest of his selfish acts. For members of this community thought he meant that he was making an oath, all I have to say is: You were wrong.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:16:58 EST
> It boils down to one question: Can we trust Dal?
I myself can trust Dal to do what ever he feels necessary and appropriate to maintain his crown as the Overlord and Supreme Dueler of the Duel of Swords. How he goes about doing this has been made too much of a concern by come folks, however, including yourself, Tom.
When Dal said he would no longer test Barons, it seems that he meant that was the case until he changed his mind. It certainly was rude to test Magnus without telling the community that he had changed his mind, but I will not hold it against him any more than the rest of his selfish acts. For members of this community thought he meant that he was making an oath, all I have to say is: You were wrong.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:25:41 EST
Take cover Tom, Dal's followers are about to mall ya for your words.
Huma Dragonbane
International man of little or no importance
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:25:41 EST
Take cover Tom, Dal's followers are about to mall ya for your words.
Huma Dragonbane
International man of little or no importance
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:33:06 EST
>I myself can trust Dal to do what ever he feels necessary and appropriate to
>maintain his crown as the Overlord and Supreme Dueler of the Duel of Swords.
>How he goes about doing this has been made too much of a concern by come
>folks, however, including yourself, Tom.
How can you trust someone who broke his oath.. you CAN change your mind, but he never really publicly gave a reason.
~Tom
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:33:06 EST
>I myself can trust Dal to do what ever he feels necessary and appropriate to
>maintain his crown as the Overlord and Supreme Dueler of the Duel of Swords.
>How he goes about doing this has been made too much of a concern by come
>folks, however, including yourself, Tom.
How can you trust someone who broke his oath.. you CAN change your mind, but he never really publicly gave a reason.
~Tom
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:40:48 EST
Good, Huma. I'll get a kick out of it.
~Tom
Date: 03 Jan 1999 23:40:48 EST
Good, Huma. I'll get a kick out of it.
~Tom
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From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 00:46:11 EST
Aye Tom, a kick may loosen ya pants and make ya accept ta truth. It be an oath to ta Kala, and it hae nothing ta do with ya.
Me Jeff done proud tanight, and ta moaning of those that can nae best it with a blade be sad.
Ta be honest, I be disgusted with those that say they be behind ta Magnus tanight. I done heard one even decry his own man's cut as "Stupid" for all ta hear. It be an utter shame, for ta man that done it hae never stepped inta a challenge ring, let alone felt ta pressure.
It give me pause when the likes of those that would say that be ta same that call for ta Dal ta step down. It give me heart a boost ta know that me Jeff be one that stand and say "Ta hell with that."
Summer
Date: 04 Jan 1999 00:46:11 EST
Aye Tom, a kick may loosen ya pants and make ya accept ta truth. It be an oath to ta Kala, and it hae nothing ta do with ya.
Me Jeff done proud tanight, and ta moaning of those that can nae best it with a blade be sad.
Ta be honest, I be disgusted with those that say they be behind ta Magnus tanight. I done heard one even decry his own man's cut as "Stupid" for all ta hear. It be an utter shame, for ta man that done it hae never stepped inta a challenge ring, let alone felt ta pressure.
It give me pause when the likes of those that would say that be ta same that call for ta Dal ta step down. It give me heart a boost ta know that me Jeff be one that stand and say "Ta hell with that."
Summer
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From: zen80s@aol.com (Zen 80s)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 00:54:48 EST
"It be an oath to ta Kala, and it hae nothing ta do with ya."
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Dalamar publicly stated, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Duel of Swords, it is now my policy to no longer test Barons who wish to challenge for my ring." He did not state, "As long as Kalamere is a Baron, to retain his loyalty, I will not test Barons who challenge for my ring."
Perhaps he meant the latter, but he said the former, and I think that is what he should abide by. He made an oath which affected all people who should become a baron under his reign, including Magnus. Perhaps he had no intention of keeping that promise once Kalamere was gone, simply because (as we know) he only did it to retain his loyalty.
Oh well. Walker's probably right. Like a line from an Earth comedy a friend once related to me: "You (screwed) up. You trusted us."
Zen Rising
Date: 04 Jan 1999 00:54:48 EST
"It be an oath to ta Kala, and it hae nothing ta do with ya."
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Dalamar publicly stated, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Duel of Swords, it is now my policy to no longer test Barons who wish to challenge for my ring." He did not state, "As long as Kalamere is a Baron, to retain his loyalty, I will not test Barons who challenge for my ring."
Perhaps he meant the latter, but he said the former, and I think that is what he should abide by. He made an oath which affected all people who should become a baron under his reign, including Magnus. Perhaps he had no intention of keeping that promise once Kalamere was gone, simply because (as we know) he only did it to retain his loyalty.
Oh well. Walker's probably right. Like a line from an Earth comedy a friend once related to me: "You (screwed) up. You trusted us."
Zen Rising
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 01:03:57 EST
Apparently,
We are now in obligation to tell everyone everything from here on out. I suppose I will have to describe everything to everyone, whether they need to know or not.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
Date: 04 Jan 1999 01:03:57 EST
Apparently,
We are now in obligation to tell everyone everything from here on out. I suppose I will have to describe everything to everyone, whether they need to know or not.
G'nort Espelande G'neesmacher Dragoon Talanador
Head of House Dragoon Talanador
Thrice Baron of the DoS
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 03:21:38 EST
Well G...
That won't work either... When you tell everyone what you intend to do, they call you a coward and claim you're hiding behind your pregnancy... or they tell you that you're foolishly wasting everyone's time... or they tell you that you're simply using the situation to make someone else look bad.
Of course, none of this will stop me from doing whatever I feel I should, or need, to do... these are just things that happen.
My opinion of this whole situation? I don't have one... My stance on these issues remains purely neutral.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon (On vacation.)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 03:21:38 EST
Well G...
That won't work either... When you tell everyone what you intend to do, they call you a coward and claim you're hiding behind your pregnancy... or they tell you that you're foolishly wasting everyone's time... or they tell you that you're simply using the situation to make someone else look bad.
Of course, none of this will stop me from doing whatever I feel I should, or need, to do... these are just things that happen.
My opinion of this whole situation? I don't have one... My stance on these issues remains purely neutral.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon (On vacation.)
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 05:58:17 EST
You don't have to tell the public everything, but if you make an oath you don't plan to keep, you should make sure the details are there.
If Kal and Dal made a personal pact about this situation, and it wasn't given public, then Kal had every right to "free Dal". But this vow was made to the public, and Kal was not appointed to speak for the hundreds of duelers who attend this arena.
The fact that the "oath" was initiated between Kal and Dal seems to just be a weak loophole. What I am wondering is why can't the council strip Dal of his crown, as they stripped Huma's right to challenge overlord? Because Jeff didn't take it upon himself to "release Huma"?
While this may seem opposite to the above point, I don't think it's "against the rules" to break an oath. I wouldn't vote for Dal's crown being stripped, because I see no true difference between his and Huma's oathbreaking. That would be hypocrisy and unfair, despite how much I want Dal to not be Overlord. Simply put, I hate the fact that Huma was punished, when Dal did the same thing. I am angry at the oath Dal made to gain appreciation, then
break it to save the crown.
I think with all of the others who chose Huma's right be stripped, that they'd do it. I was hoping things would be fair here, without lousy rhetoric, loopholes, and red herrings.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
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|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 04 Jan 1999 05:58:17 EST
You don't have to tell the public everything, but if you make an oath you don't plan to keep, you should make sure the details are there.
If Kal and Dal made a personal pact about this situation, and it wasn't given public, then Kal had every right to "free Dal". But this vow was made to the public, and Kal was not appointed to speak for the hundreds of duelers who attend this arena.
The fact that the "oath" was initiated between Kal and Dal seems to just be a weak loophole. What I am wondering is why can't the council strip Dal of his crown, as they stripped Huma's right to challenge overlord? Because Jeff didn't take it upon himself to "release Huma"?
While this may seem opposite to the above point, I don't think it's "against the rules" to break an oath. I wouldn't vote for Dal's crown being stripped, because I see no true difference between his and Huma's oathbreaking. That would be hypocrisy and unfair, despite how much I want Dal to not be Overlord. Simply put, I hate the fact that Huma was punished, when Dal did the same thing. I am angry at the oath Dal made to gain appreciation, then
break it to save the crown.
I think with all of the others who chose Huma's right be stripped, that they'd do it. I was hoping things would be fair here, without lousy rhetoric, loopholes, and red herrings.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: str8clutch@aol.com (Str8Clutch)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 06:27:09 EST
The Test is meant to be used for challengers whom the Overlord deems unfit to wear the crown of supreme duelist in this realm. Now I don't know Magnus personally, but from what I've heard about him, he is obviously worthy of this title. He has four ring defenses under his belt and to my knowledge has never done anything to publicly humiliate himself or make him a hated figure in this community. He is an honorable man. Adding
on to that, he has never told the community that he wouldn't do something and then deliberately gone and done that thing as Dalamar obviously has in this situation. This is just another example of Dalamar using the Test against a challenger who could possibly defeat him to swing the odds in his favor. It is an inexusable misuse of his power. Perhaps Dal is the one who isn't fit to hold this title. He has lied to the community as a whole by saying
he would no longer test barons and then gone and done that. He uses the test against whoever he sees as a real threat to his reign to increase his chances of retaining the title. I personally don't see how anyone could remain loyal to this man. It seems as though he has much of the community brainwashed. I, along with the majority of this community, have always seen Dalamar as an honorable man. However, unless I see a valid reason for his
testing of Magnus and going back on his word like this from him, my opinion was drastically mistaken.
~Clutch
Date: 04 Jan 1999 06:27:09 EST
The Test is meant to be used for challengers whom the Overlord deems unfit to wear the crown of supreme duelist in this realm. Now I don't know Magnus personally, but from what I've heard about him, he is obviously worthy of this title. He has four ring defenses under his belt and to my knowledge has never done anything to publicly humiliate himself or make him a hated figure in this community. He is an honorable man. Adding
on to that, he has never told the community that he wouldn't do something and then deliberately gone and done that thing as Dalamar obviously has in this situation. This is just another example of Dalamar using the Test against a challenger who could possibly defeat him to swing the odds in his favor. It is an inexusable misuse of his power. Perhaps Dal is the one who isn't fit to hold this title. He has lied to the community as a whole by saying
he would no longer test barons and then gone and done that. He uses the test against whoever he sees as a real threat to his reign to increase his chances of retaining the title. I personally don't see how anyone could remain loyal to this man. It seems as though he has much of the community brainwashed. I, along with the majority of this community, have always seen Dalamar as an honorable man. However, unless I see a valid reason for his
testing of Magnus and going back on his word like this from him, my opinion was drastically mistaken.
~Clutch
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From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 08:22:53 EST
Clutch,
There is a difference between not having show yourself publicly to be an invalid and having shown the qualities we look for in an Overlord.
-- Lucian
Date: 04 Jan 1999 08:22:53 EST
Clutch,
There is a difference between not having show yourself publicly to be an invalid and having shown the qualities we look for in an Overlord.
-- Lucian
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:23:58 EST
I know nobody cares, and those that support the current overlord will redicule me, but...
The overlord is to be considered the best dueler in the land, I ask all of you, does the best dueler have to appoint somebody to defend himself? Yes it's his right, and due to events, he did defend himself, but the point is, he tried to avoid the duel all together. How can anyone to expect him to remain the best dueler if other people fight his battles for him?
An old school teacher of mine once said..."If I do 100 push-ups a day for you, who benifits from it?" I see this to have marit in this situation like this. Dal can't be considered the best in my eyes if Jeff continues to defend him. Jeff did last night beat me soundly when I gave me best effort on behalf of Magnus. Odds did get the best of the dwarf too. I wonder...who's the best? The overlord or those who defend him?
Huma Dragonbane
International man of little or no importance
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:23:58 EST
I know nobody cares, and those that support the current overlord will redicule me, but...
The overlord is to be considered the best dueler in the land, I ask all of you, does the best dueler have to appoint somebody to defend himself? Yes it's his right, and due to events, he did defend himself, but the point is, he tried to avoid the duel all together. How can anyone to expect him to remain the best dueler if other people fight his battles for him?
An old school teacher of mine once said..."If I do 100 push-ups a day for you, who benifits from it?" I see this to have marit in this situation like this. Dal can't be considered the best in my eyes if Jeff continues to defend him. Jeff did last night beat me soundly when I gave me best effort on behalf of Magnus. Odds did get the best of the dwarf too. I wonder...who's the best? The overlord or those who defend him?
Huma Dragonbane
International man of little or no importance
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:29:14 EST
>It give me pause when the likes of those that would say that be ta same that
>call for ta Dal ta step down.
Summer, I never said I wanted Dal to step down, in fact, I didn't state I wanted -anything- to happen to Dal. I just want him to start acting like the good dueler, and Overlord he is.
~Tom
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:29:14 EST
>It give me pause when the likes of those that would say that be ta same that
>call for ta Dal ta step down.
Summer, I never said I wanted Dal to step down, in fact, I didn't state I wanted -anything- to happen to Dal. I just want him to start acting like the good dueler, and Overlord he is.
~Tom
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From: lrdevasion@aol.com (LrdEvasion)
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:31:25 EST
Huma, on that I am in total agreement.
~Tom
Date: 04 Jan 1999 09:31:25 EST
Huma, on that I am in total agreement.
~Tom