From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 16:28:59 EST
"And to Morgan, the thing I'm ignorant about, is what you think I'm ignorant about."
I shall humor your feeble grasp on matters of intellect and strategy, Var.
Simply, this is what makes you ignorant:
" You don't have to tell the public everything, but if you make an oath you don't plan to keep, you should make sure the details are there.
If Kal and Dal made a personal pact about this situation, and it wasn't given public, then Kal had every right to "free Dal". But this vow was made to the public, and Kal was not appointed to speak for the hundreds of duelers who attend this arena."
You have said this over and over again and it is simply wrong. Yet you continue as if by saying it frequently will somehow make it true. Kindly, please review what people are telling you is binding about the nature of pacts, treaties, contracts, and agreements. If you have a problem understanding a concept simply because it comes from a loyal, perhaps you should
read, and reread, what Lyon has posted.
Surely you cannot believe he is one of Dal's loyals?
Perhaps your problems is that you are unwilling to read or listen but really only care about how you think the world should run within your own limited mental confines. You do not care about what anyone says, unless the person is your friend. This sport is not about the world according to Var and your whiny "well, it's not fair" platform.
"I know Dal and Kal made an oath. I know it was between those two, but Dal extended the boundaries when he announced it to the community for the sake of hearing a few "Three cheers for Dal!""
How very clever. Who are you to say what Dal was thinking? What is your point to creating this false image? Do you think this strengthens your argument by "supposing" for everyone else? Do you think Dalamar would agree with this image you have set up for him? This is akin to saying the only reason why you went renegade was because you simply were hungry for approval and attention from the anti-Dal crowd. Because you only do things for
attention is why you expect it to be the motivation for everyone else.
Would you agree with that characterization? If you do not, kindly refrain from making the same sort of false characterizations about others you do not like.
"The difference is, though, not one person is representing the community as a whole,
and Dal following one person's words doesn't mean approval from the whole community."
Talk about red herrings. What does that have to do with the fact that Dalamar and Kalamere had a political arrangement? Do you think that the whole community has to approve bargains struck between two people? Do you think even one person has to approve the details of someone else's pactmaking? If you do think along those lines, that is exactly what makes you ignorant.
"Fact is, I don't think you'd care half as much when Huma broke his oath to Jeff for that "honor duel", if he didn't post it publicly. You'd be angry at him, yes, but most of it was because he wrote it publicly, and went back on it. I know (at least in my eyes), that I'd be less angry because he didn't post it publicly. Make note, though, I'd still be angry.
You want to say otherwise, that's up to you."
There you go again, but this time, you are trying to tell me what I think or what I would have done if the situation were different. Frankly, you are one of the last people qualified to tell anyone what I think and you cannot begin to fathom what I would do if the situation were different. Why? You have already proven how difficult enough it was for you to grasp what I have already clearly stated and extensively detailed on the
matter. Apparently it does not matter to you and you refused to understand, so you chose to think what you wanted to think, to hell with what I actually told you. That either takes a lot of gall or takes a lack of wits, perhaps both!
"you'd not be one of the few I'd believe."
Because of your propensity to fabricate motivations for other people, and because of certain ... elements... from your past, I find you to be one of the least trustworthy people in this realm.
Pray continue upon this course. I enjoy finding more and more reasons to regard you with contempt and any chance I can get to help you look like a fool is greatly anticipated.
Hipocracy
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 16:34:08 EST
"Talk ta him sometime Percy, ya know, its where two human beings converse in spoken dialect."
Now I know why Jeff and I can never talk! He's not a human being! It's all so clear...
~Lup
Date: 05 Jan 1999 16:34:08 EST
"Talk ta him sometime Percy, ya know, its where two human beings converse in spoken dialect."
Now I know why Jeff and I can never talk! He's not a human being! It's all so clear...
~Lup
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From: falablah@aol.com (Falablah)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 17:12:18 EST
Roland,
Don't be writing the future yet.
::not signed::
Date: 05 Jan 1999 17:12:18 EST
Roland,
Don't be writing the future yet.
::not signed::
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 17:30:06 EST
Another question from my feeble little pen, if Dal had no intention of keeping this promise past Kal's time as Baron, then why did he even bother to tell the community?
One more question for now...say I made a private deal with another person...a deal only the two of us knew about. Then I go on this board and tell the whole community what I was going to do, without ever stating that it was my end of an agreement. I said it was a change I was making from here on out, and I said nothing about the deal....without anyone knowing about the deal made, everyone who read the message would hold me responsible to what I
said. Then, the one I made the deal with passes away, and can not uphold this end of the bargin, so, without informing anyone that I would no longer uphold the promise I made, I went back to what I had done in this first place....and this is right?!?!?!?
I just don't see how someone could defend a person for doing this...
Cletus
Seeing things in a different way
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 17:30:06 EST
Another question from my feeble little pen, if Dal had no intention of keeping this promise past Kal's time as Baron, then why did he even bother to tell the community?
One more question for now...say I made a private deal with another person...a deal only the two of us knew about. Then I go on this board and tell the whole community what I was going to do, without ever stating that it was my end of an agreement. I said it was a change I was making from here on out, and I said nothing about the deal....without anyone knowing about the deal made, everyone who read the message would hold me responsible to what I
said. Then, the one I made the deal with passes away, and can not uphold this end of the bargin, so, without informing anyone that I would no longer uphold the promise I made, I went back to what I had done in this first place....and this is right?!?!?!?
I just don't see how someone could defend a person for doing this...
Cletus
Seeing things in a different way
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
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From: rolandsal@aol.com (Roland Sal)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 17:47:29 EST
Predictions good sir/ma'am.
Anyone who's been tossed into the politics of it all knows that whoever takes the title from Dalamar will be packed down with challenges.
Renegades and Loyals alike will challenge as soon as one is through, it is the nature of it all. Anyone who ever wanted to be Overlord but weren't up to a duel with the best will throw their lot in.
This person who takes the title better have friends, and strong ones. Because no man will be able to stand alone too long against something like that, I don't care who you are.
Tell me that is not an 90% possibility, sir/ma'am.
Lemme also bring up a point. Why is testing someone a waste of time? It takes just as long, if not longer when the Overlord calls for a best of three.
While we are down there, is that fair? Best two of three with Dalamar, I mean, he's got to win atleast twice. So nyah, sir/ma'am.
Rol
Date: 05 Jan 1999 17:47:29 EST
Predictions good sir/ma'am.
Anyone who's been tossed into the politics of it all knows that whoever takes the title from Dalamar will be packed down with challenges.
Renegades and Loyals alike will challenge as soon as one is through, it is the nature of it all. Anyone who ever wanted to be Overlord but weren't up to a duel with the best will throw their lot in.
This person who takes the title better have friends, and strong ones. Because no man will be able to stand alone too long against something like that, I don't care who you are.
Tell me that is not an 90% possibility, sir/ma'am.
Lemme also bring up a point. Why is testing someone a waste of time? It takes just as long, if not longer when the Overlord calls for a best of three.
While we are down there, is that fair? Best two of three with Dalamar, I mean, he's got to win atleast twice. So nyah, sir/ma'am.
Rol
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From: kalamere@aol.com (Kalamere)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 18:09:36 EST
A couple people have written and asked why Dalamar even made an announcement when the treaty was between he and I. The answer is really rather simple - It was part of the treaty. In addition to Dalamar's agreement to test no challenging baron I required that a public statement be made to that effect.
Secondly - Though relieved of my title, Dalamar had no intention of using the Test of Worthiness against a baron challenger until after I released him from that oath. While you do make valid points about the nature of treaties Morgan, I fear that in this case you don't have all the facts. This agreement was not to be voided once I left the title of Baron, for a loyal warlord is nearly as valuable as a loyal Baron.
Lastly - The act of informing the public of this change in policy in no way made Dalamar beholden to the lot of you. He made no promises to the public, he merely stated his new policy to place aside the test of worthiness... much like he had made it clear in the past that it was his policy to test those whom he felt deserved testing. I saw none call him out as hypocrite when that change was made so why begin now?
For the record I dislike the fact the test was used against Magnus. Oath or not, I still believe that Barons are inherently worthy and should not be tested. That, however, makes Dalamar neither hypocrite nor oath breaker.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
Returning Warlord
Date: 05 Jan 1999 18:09:36 EST
A couple people have written and asked why Dalamar even made an announcement when the treaty was between he and I. The answer is really rather simple - It was part of the treaty. In addition to Dalamar's agreement to test no challenging baron I required that a public statement be made to that effect.
Secondly - Though relieved of my title, Dalamar had no intention of using the Test of Worthiness against a baron challenger until after I released him from that oath. While you do make valid points about the nature of treaties Morgan, I fear that in this case you don't have all the facts. This agreement was not to be voided once I left the title of Baron, for a loyal warlord is nearly as valuable as a loyal Baron.
Lastly - The act of informing the public of this change in policy in no way made Dalamar beholden to the lot of you. He made no promises to the public, he merely stated his new policy to place aside the test of worthiness... much like he had made it clear in the past that it was his policy to test those whom he felt deserved testing. I saw none call him out as hypocrite when that change was made so why begin now?
For the record I dislike the fact the test was used against Magnus. Oath or not, I still believe that Barons are inherently worthy and should not be tested. That, however, makes Dalamar neither hypocrite nor oath breaker.
~Kalamere Ar'Din...
Returning Warlord
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From: jakemheart@aol.com (JakeMHeart)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 18:13:15 EST
Cletus, not to be with this or anything, and like i've stated it before. I think the man deserves that right. To tell you the honest to god truth. I'm just a loner in this place and i'm not really with anyone here, so... If I was overlord, I sure as hell would test people if I had the chance. But that's only if I feel it is necessary. I feel he has already
accomplished "Supreme Duelist of DoS" but I, would NOT break an oath, or rather a bargin.
Like or dislike Dal, everybody knows he is the best and I don't feel he has to prove that to anyone, any more. Even when he loses, people will feel the same way, and just maybe, maybe they'll say it was luck beating him. But to beat Dal in my eyes, takes a whole lot of skill and passion for this sport. It's in the heart most of all.
----)> Jake Heart
Date: 05 Jan 1999 18:13:15 EST
Cletus, not to be with this or anything, and like i've stated it before. I think the man deserves that right. To tell you the honest to god truth. I'm just a loner in this place and i'm not really with anyone here, so... If I was overlord, I sure as hell would test people if I had the chance. But that's only if I feel it is necessary. I feel he has already
accomplished "Supreme Duelist of DoS" but I, would NOT break an oath, or rather a bargin.
Like or dislike Dal, everybody knows he is the best and I don't feel he has to prove that to anyone, any more. Even when he loses, people will feel the same way, and just maybe, maybe they'll say it was luck beating him. But to beat Dal in my eyes, takes a whole lot of skill and passion for this sport. It's in the heart most of all.
----)> Jake Heart
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From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 18:24:20 EST
Jake, by what you said right there, if some miracle were to happen and you did become Overlord, don't count on my support.
Cletus
Seeing things in a different way
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 18:24:20 EST
Jake, by what you said right there, if some miracle were to happen and you did become Overlord, don't count on my support.
Cletus
Seeing things in a different way
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:00:43 EST
>>3. He doesn't intiate fights and 9 times out of 10 won't throw an insult back at someone.<<
Prithee, tell the community when Dalamar started a fight last.
~Sidartha
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:00:43 EST
>>3. He doesn't intiate fights and 9 times out of 10 won't throw an insult back at someone.<<
Prithee, tell the community when Dalamar started a fight last.
~Sidartha
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:10:09 EST
>>Madame Elgarette, nay everyone wast pleased with Siera or with her reign. I distinctly recall Falon and Stephano de Fortenza having at the wielder of Bane, ast well ast others, both in the basement and upon the ancient corkboard. Sweeping statements such ast everyone thought or felt something aire rarely accurate.<<
The obove statement is exactly *why* I said "with the *possible* exception of Siera Redwin". I wasn't exactly sure, so I said "possible".
~Sidartha
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:10:09 EST
>>Madame Elgarette, nay everyone wast pleased with Siera or with her reign. I distinctly recall Falon and Stephano de Fortenza having at the wielder of Bane, ast well ast others, both in the basement and upon the ancient corkboard. Sweeping statements such ast everyone thought or felt something aire rarely accurate.<<
The obove statement is exactly *why* I said "with the *possible* exception of Siera Redwin". I wasn't exactly sure, so I said "possible".
~Sidartha
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From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:28:40 EST
>>Prithee, tell the community when Dalamar started a fight last.<<
Sidartha,
I do not think that Cletus, or anyone, was accusing Dal of starting a fight. Summer asked Cletus why he thought his brother was worthy. Cletus listed the reasons he felt that his brother deserved an even shot as a worthy challenger. He was not saying his brother was more worthy than Dal or that Dal was uworthy. Merely answering the question he was asked.
I realize that it is youre natural desire to defend Dal, the same way that I would defend Sara. However, I do not think you need to look to start fights in order to create oppurtunities to defend him. I understand that the mood of late has tended to make everyone feel defensive. It does not seem, however, that Cletus meant any offense here and to use this to start a new fight seems wrong to me.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:28:40 EST
>>Prithee, tell the community when Dalamar started a fight last.<<
Sidartha,
I do not think that Cletus, or anyone, was accusing Dal of starting a fight. Summer asked Cletus why he thought his brother was worthy. Cletus listed the reasons he felt that his brother deserved an even shot as a worthy challenger. He was not saying his brother was more worthy than Dal or that Dal was uworthy. Merely answering the question he was asked.
I realize that it is youre natural desire to defend Dal, the same way that I would defend Sara. However, I do not think you need to look to start fights in order to create oppurtunities to defend him. I understand that the mood of late has tended to make everyone feel defensive. It does not seem, however, that Cletus meant any offense here and to use this to start a new fight seems wrong to me.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:37:42 EST
>>If someone is ignorant, I am not going to sweeten the words with honey when I point out why so it will not offend your delicate sensibilities. I am not here to make sure you are not offended by strong opinions. I am here to make a point. If you cannot handle it, do not start the debate.<<
I don't think that my fiance was offended by anyone's 'strong opinion'. I believe, rather, that she was asking you why you chose to change the discussion from a debate to a contest of insults. I can understand her curiosity in this matter. Var, for a change, has actually attempted to argue calmly and has refrained from making the rabid insults he is often inclined toward. If only those who claimed to be more mature could follow his example, I think
that the debate would be better served.
Insults are the weapons of those who do not understand the intricacies of debate. Someone of your skills should not feel the need to stoop to them. Or perhaps you just can't resist the urge to enjoy yourself? Perhaps you find slander more enjoyable than debate. You seem to prefer the former to the latter.
Also, I don't think I cared for the backhanded insult to Sara. Perhaps you were carried off in the heat of the moment, having enjoyed the venom you spit at Var too much to refrain from spewing it at her as well?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:37:42 EST
>>If someone is ignorant, I am not going to sweeten the words with honey when I point out why so it will not offend your delicate sensibilities. I am not here to make sure you are not offended by strong opinions. I am here to make a point. If you cannot handle it, do not start the debate.<<
I don't think that my fiance was offended by anyone's 'strong opinion'. I believe, rather, that she was asking you why you chose to change the discussion from a debate to a contest of insults. I can understand her curiosity in this matter. Var, for a change, has actually attempted to argue calmly and has refrained from making the rabid insults he is often inclined toward. If only those who claimed to be more mature could follow his example, I think
that the debate would be better served.
Insults are the weapons of those who do not understand the intricacies of debate. Someone of your skills should not feel the need to stoop to them. Or perhaps you just can't resist the urge to enjoy yourself? Perhaps you find slander more enjoyable than debate. You seem to prefer the former to the latter.
Also, I don't think I cared for the backhanded insult to Sara. Perhaps you were carried off in the heat of the moment, having enjoyed the venom you spit at Var too much to refrain from spewing it at her as well?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:38:57 EST
>Sidartha,
>
> I do not think that Cletus, or anyone, was accusing Dal of starting a
>fight. Summer asked Cletus why he thought his brother was worthy. Cletus
>listed the reasons he felt that his brother deserved an even shot as a worthy
>challenger. He was not saying his brother was more worthy than Dal or that
>Dal was uworthy. Merely answering the question he was asked.
> I realize that it is youre natural desire to defend Dal, the same way that I
>would defend Sara. However, I do not think you need to look to start fights
>in order to create oppurtunities to defend him. I understand that the mood of
>late has tended to make everyone feel defensive. It does not seem, however,
>that Cletus meant any offense here and to use this to start a new fight seems
>wrong to me.
Percy~
Trust me. If he didn't mean it that way, he'll tell me, I'll apologize for misinterpreting, and it'll be all good.
Unless he or anyone else starts spouting about how much of an idiot I am for misreading his post, there *should* be a fight.
~Sid
Date: 05 Jan 1999 19:38:57 EST
>Sidartha,
>
> I do not think that Cletus, or anyone, was accusing Dal of starting a
>fight. Summer asked Cletus why he thought his brother was worthy. Cletus
>listed the reasons he felt that his brother deserved an even shot as a worthy
>challenger. He was not saying his brother was more worthy than Dal or that
>Dal was uworthy. Merely answering the question he was asked.
> I realize that it is youre natural desire to defend Dal, the same way that I
>would defend Sara. However, I do not think you need to look to start fights
>in order to create oppurtunities to defend him. I understand that the mood of
>late has tended to make everyone feel defensive. It does not seem, however,
>that Cletus meant any offense here and to use this to start a new fight seems
>wrong to me.
Percy~
Trust me. If he didn't mean it that way, he'll tell me, I'll apologize for misinterpreting, and it'll be all good.
Unless he or anyone else starts spouting about how much of an idiot I am for misreading his post, there *should* be a fight.
~Sid
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 20:02:23 EST
>>there *should* be a fight.>>
Er...that would be should *not*.
Apologetically,
~Sid
Date: 05 Jan 1999 20:02:23 EST
>>there *should* be a fight.>>
Er...that would be should *not*.
Apologetically,
~Sid
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 05 Jan 1999 20:30:01 EST
::thinks a moment and pens::
I'm a practiced healer..as fer the second request..hmm..court's still out on that...need me service?
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.
Date: 05 Jan 1999 20:30:01 EST
::thinks a moment and pens::
I'm a practiced healer..as fer the second request..hmm..court's still out on that...need me service?
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.