From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 09:14:44 EST
Many have brought ta question Dalamar's use of da test of worthiness, so shall now lay out da facts of his reign hopefully shedding a new light on it fer all whom are too lazy ta do da research demselves.
Dalamar has faced 10 opponents alone: Ulath, Nova, Marzan, Topaz, Daegarth, Skyler, Rand, Borg, Seamus, and Daegarth again.
Dalamar has tested 8 opponents: Elijah, Huma, Draven, Gnimish, Evan, Adonai, Seraph, Huma again (counting honor duel).
Of 8 ToWs, 3 have succeeded.
Dalamar had ta face 5 of his tested opponents himself: Elijah, Huma, Evan, Adonai, and Seraph.
Record: Dalamar is 18-0. Dalamar is 10-0 when fighting alone. Dalamar is 15-0 when taking ta da ring with Vengeance. Dalamar's champions are 3-5.
In comparison ta a title holder everyone so praises - AJaybird. AJ has faced 11 opponents. AJ has tested 2. AJ has been forced ta face 10 of 11.
Record: AJ is 11-0. AJ is 9-0 when fighting alone. AJ is 10-0 when taking ta da ring. AJ's champion (Dalamar) is 1-1.
Dalamar's record is just as excellent (if not more) as Baron AJ Bird, yet we all praise AJ as da best baron ever, yet few if any give Dalamar his due credit fer a most impressive reign as our Overlord. Dalamar has faced more challenges and defended himself more times dan any other title holder in DoS....ever.
In light of da records presented in dis missive, I ask how anyone can say he abuses da ToW?
~Jeffrey Oakenshield~
Loyal baron
Defender of da 8th Barons' Ring
Facts, Truth, an excellent record.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 09:35:52 EST
>>In light of da records presented in dis missive, I ask how anyone can say he abuses da ToW?<<
It can be said because Dal has, on three occasions at least, Tested sitting Barons. A Baron has already defeated at least one rank holder to win his ring, if he won it in a challenge, or he has defeated the best and brightest of DoS for it, if he won it in a Tourney. The Baron, by winning his ring, has already passed a Test of Worthiness and has proven himself 'worthy' for as long as he can hold his ring. Whether the Baron in question is personally
worthy tends to be a matter of opinion. Very few of the moral compasses of Rhy Din are set to the same lattitude and longitude.
Dalamar is probably one of the best duelists to ever set foot within a ring. This is a proven fact. He has held onto the ring and faced great tests himself. However, Barons should not be Tested. At all. This doesn't mean that only Barons we dislike should be Tested. Barons have already proved themselves worthy to be in the ring with the Overlord. The only 'Test of Worthiness' they should need to face is the match with the Overlord. Dalamar is
certainly a good enough duelist to prove them uworthy, if they really are.
Of course, during the time I have been back, I have only seen one use of the Test that I approved of. I tend to oppose the Test on general principles.This said, I think anyone who Tests Barons is misusing the Test. Likewise, I think anytime the challenger defeats the Chosen in the Test the Test has been misused.
I know you disagree with a lot of this, Jeff. However, it should answer the question you asked. I hope it helps.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 07 Jan 1999 09:35:52 EST
>>In light of da records presented in dis missive, I ask how anyone can say he abuses da ToW?<<
It can be said because Dal has, on three occasions at least, Tested sitting Barons. A Baron has already defeated at least one rank holder to win his ring, if he won it in a challenge, or he has defeated the best and brightest of DoS for it, if he won it in a Tourney. The Baron, by winning his ring, has already passed a Test of Worthiness and has proven himself 'worthy' for as long as he can hold his ring. Whether the Baron in question is personally
worthy tends to be a matter of opinion. Very few of the moral compasses of Rhy Din are set to the same lattitude and longitude.
Dalamar is probably one of the best duelists to ever set foot within a ring. This is a proven fact. He has held onto the ring and faced great tests himself. However, Barons should not be Tested. At all. This doesn't mean that only Barons we dislike should be Tested. Barons have already proved themselves worthy to be in the ring with the Overlord. The only 'Test of Worthiness' they should need to face is the match with the Overlord. Dalamar is
certainly a good enough duelist to prove them uworthy, if they really are.
Of course, during the time I have been back, I have only seen one use of the Test that I approved of. I tend to oppose the Test on general principles.This said, I think anyone who Tests Barons is misusing the Test. Likewise, I think anytime the challenger defeats the Chosen in the Test the Test has been misused.
I know you disagree with a lot of this, Jeff. However, it should answer the question you asked. I hope it helps.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 09:48:26 EST
Side note: I left Magnus off my previous post as one who was tested, yet Dalamar was forced ta face
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<However, Barons should not be Tested. At all. This doesn't mean that only Barons we dislike should be Tested. Barons have already proved themselves worthy to be in the ring with the Overlord.>>
Percy,
Review my list of tested Barons, none have yet ta gain a ring by winnin' a warlords tournament. As such dey got da ring by winning either one or two duels on a single night against a single opponent. How can a single barionial challenge match prove anyone's worth. Even our sport's commoners are able ta win 1-2 duels a night against barons. If commoners can beat 1-2 barons a night, yet do not receieve any special accolades fer such
accomplishments, how can ya praise warlords who do so? Da quoted statement is an opinion, and I cannot discredit yer right ta hold it, however I can disagree with yer logic. Just cause someone has a ring, it doesn't make 'em any more worthy fer two reasons. First, worthiness is not based solely on skill. Second, worth of skill cannot be determined by lookin' at one barionial challenge match in which da baron had a good night.
~J
Date: 07 Jan 1999 09:48:26 EST
Side note: I left Magnus off my previous post as one who was tested, yet Dalamar was forced ta face
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<<However, Barons should not be Tested. At all. This doesn't mean that only Barons we dislike should be Tested. Barons have already proved themselves worthy to be in the ring with the Overlord.>>
Percy,
Review my list of tested Barons, none have yet ta gain a ring by winnin' a warlords tournament. As such dey got da ring by winning either one or two duels on a single night against a single opponent. How can a single barionial challenge match prove anyone's worth. Even our sport's commoners are able ta win 1-2 duels a night against barons. If commoners can beat 1-2 barons a night, yet do not receieve any special accolades fer such
accomplishments, how can ya praise warlords who do so? Da quoted statement is an opinion, and I cannot discredit yer right ta hold it, however I can disagree with yer logic. Just cause someone has a ring, it doesn't make 'em any more worthy fer two reasons. First, worthiness is not based solely on skill. Second, worth of skill cannot be determined by lookin' at one barionial challenge match in which da baron had a good night.
~J
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xxlucianxx@aol.com (XxLucianxX)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 10:10:42 EST
I think Jeff summed it up fairly well. Does defeating one person in one duel to claim their title, when they themselves could have gained the title the same way, mean that that person should be entitled to be Overlord? Would you say that any baron would make a good Overlord? I would not. As it was said, a commoner could defeat a Baron in any single duel. If this commoner then rises to Warlord and challenges
Dalamar, would his defeat of a Baron in a single match be reason for him to not be tested? The only difference between that new Warlord and a Baron is that his victory wasn't awarded with a ring. In essence, if you believe winning one match is the grounds to prove your worthiness to be Overlord, I think you may have your standards set a bit low.
-- Lucian
Date: 07 Jan 1999 10:10:42 EST
I think Jeff summed it up fairly well. Does defeating one person in one duel to claim their title, when they themselves could have gained the title the same way, mean that that person should be entitled to be Overlord? Would you say that any baron would make a good Overlord? I would not. As it was said, a commoner could defeat a Baron in any single duel. If this commoner then rises to Warlord and challenges
Dalamar, would his defeat of a Baron in a single match be reason for him to not be tested? The only difference between that new Warlord and a Baron is that his victory wasn't awarded with a ring. In essence, if you believe winning one match is the grounds to prove your worthiness to be Overlord, I think you may have your standards set a bit low.
-- Lucian
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 10:34:28 EST
>>Review my list of tested Barons, none have yet ta gain a ring by winnin' a warlords tournament. <<
Jeff,
Magnus won his ring in a Warlord's Tourney, remember? He might not have won the Tourney, but he did put on a superb show the nights of that Tourney. He won significantly more than a single Baronial challenge match.
>> How can a single barionial challenge match prove anyone's worth. Even our sport's commoners are able ta win 1-2 duels a night against barons.<<
A single Baronial challenge match can prove someone's worth as easily as can a single match with the Overlord's Champion in a Test. Our disagreement lies in how we see the Test. When it was written into the rules it was meant to be used as a test of skill. Calling for the Test was telling your opponent that he or she was not good enough in the rings to even face you for the crown.
As for the statistics regarding commoners defeating Barons, I tend not to accept such a figure without proof. I would like to know which commoners are defeating a Baron or two every night, yet not advancing in rank. I had a win ratio like that against Barons when I was a commoner, but I wasn't a commoner for more than a week or two. I would guess that most other commoners with lots of wins against Warlords and Barons move up as well.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 07 Jan 1999 10:34:28 EST
>>Review my list of tested Barons, none have yet ta gain a ring by winnin' a warlords tournament. <<
Jeff,
Magnus won his ring in a Warlord's Tourney, remember? He might not have won the Tourney, but he did put on a superb show the nights of that Tourney. He won significantly more than a single Baronial challenge match.
>> How can a single barionial challenge match prove anyone's worth. Even our sport's commoners are able ta win 1-2 duels a night against barons.<<
A single Baronial challenge match can prove someone's worth as easily as can a single match with the Overlord's Champion in a Test. Our disagreement lies in how we see the Test. When it was written into the rules it was meant to be used as a test of skill. Calling for the Test was telling your opponent that he or she was not good enough in the rings to even face you for the crown.
As for the statistics regarding commoners defeating Barons, I tend not to accept such a figure without proof. I would like to know which commoners are defeating a Baron or two every night, yet not advancing in rank. I had a win ratio like that against Barons when I was a commoner, but I wasn't a commoner for more than a week or two. I would guess that most other commoners with lots of wins against Warlords and Barons move up as well.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: xerzesm@aol.com (Xerzes M)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 11:41:47 EST
::bangs his head on the board yet again::
Actually,there are some Commoners who defeat Warlords and Baros on a reasonable basis,but remain in the rank of Commoner.Obviously,me,for example.
-Xerzes Maureen
Jobber
Date: 07 Jan 1999 11:41:47 EST
::bangs his head on the board yet again::
Actually,there are some Commoners who defeat Warlords and Baros on a reasonable basis,but remain in the rank of Commoner.Obviously,me,for example.
-Xerzes Maureen
Jobber
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 12:01:00 EST
"However, Barons should not be Tested. At all."
If this were true, would it not be in the rules?
Date: 07 Jan 1999 12:01:00 EST
"However, Barons should not be Tested. At all."
If this were true, would it not be in the rules?
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: rolandsal@aol.com (Roland Sal)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 12:40:45 EST
Xerzes is right there. Having been a commoner, Baron, and all around punching bag I think I can offer a little help.
During the days of common-hood your best chance at getting ahead in the DoS was dueling Warlords and up, people who expected a certain order of things. Those Warlords/cocky fetuses who didn't blow commoners out with their skill, that is.
Of course, every commoner gets that peer duel or some cocky fetus who feels the need to shove his sword down your throat, then your record suffer considerably.
I know when I was a Baron skimming along 15 there for a while, the main thing holding me back was that I accepted duels from everyone. Not just Warlords and peers alike, but Grand Masters and on down. That put a real dent in breaking even some nights.
The only proof I can offer is that of my experience here. Granted, I wasn't a commoner nearly as long as Perci, but I'm not one to flaunt anything about rank and status around in the Arena. It's just not proper, unless someone needs a good reminding or has an odd motivational sense. Ask Xerzes, ask Mighty Warlord Tass ::he grins:: who he has a better win ratio with over the years, might be suprised who he points out as easy and which commoners he
thinks are tough.
Jeff could help you more, I think. Commoners and the ladyfolk tend to be a thorn in his side I believe he said.
Out of reach of dwarves,
Rol
Date: 07 Jan 1999 12:40:45 EST
Xerzes is right there. Having been a commoner, Baron, and all around punching bag I think I can offer a little help.
During the days of common-hood your best chance at getting ahead in the DoS was dueling Warlords and up, people who expected a certain order of things. Those Warlords/cocky fetuses who didn't blow commoners out with their skill, that is.
Of course, every commoner gets that peer duel or some cocky fetus who feels the need to shove his sword down your throat, then your record suffer considerably.
I know when I was a Baron skimming along 15 there for a while, the main thing holding me back was that I accepted duels from everyone. Not just Warlords and peers alike, but Grand Masters and on down. That put a real dent in breaking even some nights.
The only proof I can offer is that of my experience here. Granted, I wasn't a commoner nearly as long as Perci, but I'm not one to flaunt anything about rank and status around in the Arena. It's just not proper, unless someone needs a good reminding or has an odd motivational sense. Ask Xerzes, ask Mighty Warlord Tass ::he grins:: who he has a better win ratio with over the years, might be suprised who he points out as easy and which commoners he
thinks are tough.
Jeff could help you more, I think. Commoners and the ladyfolk tend to be a thorn in his side I believe he said.
Out of reach of dwarves,
Rol
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: rixfavre@aol.com (Rix Favre)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:22:46 EST
A few things here . . .
Jeff, you left Perri off of your list of opponents Dalamar has faced alone. He finished second in a Warlord Tournament early last year and faced Dal in a winner take all match.
Percy writes:
"Magnus won his ring in a Warlord's Tourney, remember? He might not have won the Tourney, but he did put on a superb show the nights of that Tourney. He won significantly more than a single Baronial challenge match."
So? Twice last year I finished third in two of the three tournaments I entered. The bad thing was, in both of those tournaments there were only two prizes available. Magnus finished third when there were more than two prizes up for grabs. The reason I am not a Baron and he is? I have got some horrible timing when it comes to doing well in tournaments.
And lastly, I was a commoner for a long time and I would defeat a Baron roughly two out of three times a night while not advancing in rank. Just ask Jeff, I am sure he remembers when I would beat up on his dwarfen butt when I was a commoner and he was a Baron.
-Rix
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:22:46 EST
A few things here . . .
Jeff, you left Perri off of your list of opponents Dalamar has faced alone. He finished second in a Warlord Tournament early last year and faced Dal in a winner take all match.
Percy writes:
"Magnus won his ring in a Warlord's Tourney, remember? He might not have won the Tourney, but he did put on a superb show the nights of that Tourney. He won significantly more than a single Baronial challenge match."
So? Twice last year I finished third in two of the three tournaments I entered. The bad thing was, in both of those tournaments there were only two prizes available. Magnus finished third when there were more than two prizes up for grabs. The reason I am not a Baron and he is? I have got some horrible timing when it comes to doing well in tournaments.
And lastly, I was a commoner for a long time and I would defeat a Baron roughly two out of three times a night while not advancing in rank. Just ask Jeff, I am sure he remembers when I would beat up on his dwarfen butt when I was a commoner and he was a Baron.
-Rix
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:26:38 EST
Heh...I can attest to that...I duel lotsa 'igher rankers, and find my luck better there than someone 'ho just walked in the door and doesn't know what a sword is until he whacks me around with it....no matter, I lose to both peer and warlord...makes no difference...I just want ta duel fer fun and the company of those in the arena...sometimes I think people get to obsessed with rank and dueling losses the fun aspact,
gaining a job-like quality instead of just a sport...I know one character who shall remain nameless that has one goal involving rank, and decides to retire if the goal isn't completed in a very short amount of time...but the whole point is, what worth is it to duel if it losses its "luster," or fun.....I know that'd be the day I'd retire, and that day's long in coming... just duel until you can't pick up a sword, drink, have good company...and don't
let meaningless things such as rank obtain you...yes...meaningless...you should be having fun and being happy you're alive instead of squabling on the cork,...debates that turn into personal conflicts hindering what otherwise might be..well...a beautiful relationship. All in all, think before slinging mud...it may be a mistake you can never fix, and block you out from something quite pleasant.
Side Note: Not saying this little line o' postin' is a "bunch of squabling," I mean adversely heated posts in the generic manner.
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:26:38 EST
Heh...I can attest to that...I duel lotsa 'igher rankers, and find my luck better there than someone 'ho just walked in the door and doesn't know what a sword is until he whacks me around with it....no matter, I lose to both peer and warlord...makes no difference...I just want ta duel fer fun and the company of those in the arena...sometimes I think people get to obsessed with rank and dueling losses the fun aspact,
gaining a job-like quality instead of just a sport...I know one character who shall remain nameless that has one goal involving rank, and decides to retire if the goal isn't completed in a very short amount of time...but the whole point is, what worth is it to duel if it losses its "luster," or fun.....I know that'd be the day I'd retire, and that day's long in coming... just duel until you can't pick up a sword, drink, have good company...and don't
let meaningless things such as rank obtain you...yes...meaningless...you should be having fun and being happy you're alive instead of squabling on the cork,...debates that turn into personal conflicts hindering what otherwise might be..well...a beautiful relationship. All in all, think before slinging mud...it may be a mistake you can never fix, and block you out from something quite pleasant.
Side Note: Not saying this little line o' postin' is a "bunch of squabling," I mean adversely heated posts in the generic manner.
--Coron de Copacheta--
13 Locke Dell, Rhydin.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:52:15 EST
People praise Dal and AJ. Nobody has contested AJ's or Dal's skill in the ring.
Like Dal, AJ has done something someone holding a similar rank hasn't done. AJ has held his ring for almost two years, longer than any other baron. In those two years, he has faced more challengers than other barons.
Dal, however, has held the crown for a year and a half. That is longer than any other overlord, I believe. He has defended his crown more than any other overlord, as well.
People don't like Dal for things he has done that we don't like. Just as I recall some people rooting against AJ in his last challenge. Thus, that means those people a) didn't like AJ or b) didn't want AJ to win.
I respect AJ, and I believe others do, as well. Just as others respect Dal. I guess all I can say is that you should learn to deal with it. You'll have a hard time going through life trying to make everyone like one thing/person/place. Heck, maybe most of us need to learn that. I know there are a lot of things I need to learn to do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be an attempt to "get back at" those who have spoken up against Dal for his testing of Magnus. It's just what I gather since this was mentioned just days after the words against Dal. Else, I'd have absolutely no clue as to why this sudden comparison between Dal and AJ.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:52:15 EST
People praise Dal and AJ. Nobody has contested AJ's or Dal's skill in the ring.
Like Dal, AJ has done something someone holding a similar rank hasn't done. AJ has held his ring for almost two years, longer than any other baron. In those two years, he has faced more challengers than other barons.
Dal, however, has held the crown for a year and a half. That is longer than any other overlord, I believe. He has defended his crown more than any other overlord, as well.
People don't like Dal for things he has done that we don't like. Just as I recall some people rooting against AJ in his last challenge. Thus, that means those people a) didn't like AJ or b) didn't want AJ to win.
I respect AJ, and I believe others do, as well. Just as others respect Dal. I guess all I can say is that you should learn to deal with it. You'll have a hard time going through life trying to make everyone like one thing/person/place. Heck, maybe most of us need to learn that. I know there are a lot of things I need to learn to do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be an attempt to "get back at" those who have spoken up against Dal for his testing of Magnus. It's just what I gather since this was mentioned just days after the words against Dal. Else, I'd have absolutely no clue as to why this sudden comparison between Dal and AJ.
Simply,
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: waikrboh@aol.com (WaIkrBoh)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:58:17 EST
>AJ's champion (Dalamar) is 1-1.
Not quite correct, Jeff.
When AJ's champion failed, that champion was Athlstan, not Dalamar. In AJ's "3rd" defense, Overlord Athlstan interceeded on Raiyko was defeated in the renegade intercession by Ford Prefect.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
Date: 07 Jan 1999 16:58:17 EST
>AJ's champion (Dalamar) is 1-1.
Not quite correct, Jeff.
When AJ's champion failed, that champion was Athlstan, not Dalamar. In AJ's "3rd" defense, Overlord Athlstan interceeded on Raiyko was defeated in the renegade intercession by Ford Prefect.
-Walker Boh
Baron of the 12th
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: carnage669@aol.com (Carnage669)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 17:32:50 EST
Rix,
Jeff stated that nobody who Dal tested won his ring in a Warlord tournament, and Percy was correcting him. Jeff's point was that most Baron's may have just got lucky in one duel and that it wasn't a proof of their worth to be Overlord to win it that way. Magnus won more than one duel that night, and I think that is what Percy was saying...
Cletus
Seeing things in a different way
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 17:32:50 EST
Rix,
Jeff stated that nobody who Dal tested won his ring in a Warlord tournament, and Percy was correcting him. Jeff's point was that most Baron's may have just got lucky in one duel and that it wasn't a proof of their worth to be Overlord to win it that way. Magnus won more than one duel that night, and I think that is what Percy was saying...
Cletus
Seeing things in a different way
Guardian of Polaris
Renegade Baron of the 5th
Member of The Rising Stars (TDL)
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 17:48:42 EST
Totally true. A lot of times, A Commoner will defeat a Warlord or a Baron...but not advance.
Why? Because after that duel, they go face another commoner, and they lose.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Master at Arms in DoS
Mage in DoM
Date: 07 Jan 1999 17:48:42 EST
Totally true. A lot of times, A Commoner will defeat a Warlord or a Baron...but not advance.
Why? Because after that duel, they go face another commoner, and they lose.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Laylla's husband.
Roman pretorian
Master at Arms in DoS
Mage in DoM