From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 00:32:56 EST
Falablah:
I am not preventing anyone from anything... anymore than someone with no reason at all to challenge is preventing them from something, or anymore than someone offering friendly challenge is.
The frequency with which people presume that challenging for a ring should be free of any criticism whatsoever, and that, once earned, one is somehow inherently worthy, amuses me.
And this is nothing to do with my past reputation; for my past reputation is no different from my current one. Those who respect me do not respect me because I once held three Baron's rings, and those of you who think otherwise are sorely deluded.
Ian Rex.
The newest target
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 00:34:49 EST
Jeffrey:
We have no quarrel. You, of all, have earned the right to act as you will. Should our purposes cross, then such is fate; until then, act as is your due.
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 00:34:49 EST
Jeffrey:
We have no quarrel. You, of all, have earned the right to act as you will. Should our purposes cross, then such is fate; until then, act as is your due.
Ian Rex.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 00:49:50 EST
Iain, and those that may speak with him.
I dare ya ta say me man hae nae earned ta right ta defend those that he will. It be his way. Ya all be a fool who think he nae could do less.
Summer
Date: 15 Feb 1999 00:49:50 EST
Iain, and those that may speak with him.
I dare ya ta say me man hae nae earned ta right ta defend those that he will. It be his way. Ya all be a fool who think he nae could do less.
Summer
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: falablah@aol.com (Falablah)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 01:13:13 EST
Ian was sayin in response to my rambling,
"I am not preventing anyone from anything... anymore than someone with no reason at all to challenge is preventing them from something, or anymore than someone offering friendly challenge is."
Ok you got your point, and it is true...but that has nothing to do with your blatent insults with your talk of challenging barony's. At least friendly challenges are...get this...."friendly" and a good majority of the time, no reason challengers show some respect to the Baron's they challenge.
"The frequency with which people presume that challenging for a ring should be
free of any criticism whatsoever, and that, once earned, one is somehow inherently worthy, amuses me."
Criticism is fine and all, thats what this whole cork board is made of these days, but your insults of challengers tend to go past criticism. What more do you want someone to do after they are sucessful in winning a challenge? Do twenty pushups and recite the bible? Your opinions on who is worthy or not are not currently in the rules and until then anyone who takes a ring is worthy to a certain degree.
and lastly he said,
"And this is nothing to do with my past reputation; for my past reputation is no different from my current one. Those who respect me do not respect me because I once held three Baron's rings, and those of you who think otherwise are sorely deluded."
This paragraph baffles my mind in many ways.....Les start from the top shall we. The Amethyst ring has nothing to do with your past reputation......past reputation = current reputation....so the Amethyst ring isn't current? This has nothing to do with your respect or lack of, I was just sayin how you showed up one day and said "hey, its me i'm back, here's my nice happy amythest group, cross us and we'll tear the ring off your finger" (paraphrased of
course) and yet I can't find your name on the standings. You must be using your old reputation to fuel this Amethyst ring of yours.
And now back to my original statement in newly worded phrases (ooh happy fun time).....let the Warlords have there fun in the sun and challenge. Huma loves the 4th ring and now he's got it back. Let him enjoy it and when the time comes if Morgan wants it back she can do so by challenging.
Looking for intelligent responses,
Fala
(note by da Fala: oh and sorry for misspelling Amethyst ring many times, I have a feeling I didn't spell it correct once)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 01:13:13 EST
Ian was sayin in response to my rambling,
"I am not preventing anyone from anything... anymore than someone with no reason at all to challenge is preventing them from something, or anymore than someone offering friendly challenge is."
Ok you got your point, and it is true...but that has nothing to do with your blatent insults with your talk of challenging barony's. At least friendly challenges are...get this...."friendly" and a good majority of the time, no reason challengers show some respect to the Baron's they challenge.
"The frequency with which people presume that challenging for a ring should be
free of any criticism whatsoever, and that, once earned, one is somehow inherently worthy, amuses me."
Criticism is fine and all, thats what this whole cork board is made of these days, but your insults of challengers tend to go past criticism. What more do you want someone to do after they are sucessful in winning a challenge? Do twenty pushups and recite the bible? Your opinions on who is worthy or not are not currently in the rules and until then anyone who takes a ring is worthy to a certain degree.
and lastly he said,
"And this is nothing to do with my past reputation; for my past reputation is no different from my current one. Those who respect me do not respect me because I once held three Baron's rings, and those of you who think otherwise are sorely deluded."
This paragraph baffles my mind in many ways.....Les start from the top shall we. The Amethyst ring has nothing to do with your past reputation......past reputation = current reputation....so the Amethyst ring isn't current? This has nothing to do with your respect or lack of, I was just sayin how you showed up one day and said "hey, its me i'm back, here's my nice happy amythest group, cross us and we'll tear the ring off your finger" (paraphrased of
course) and yet I can't find your name on the standings. You must be using your old reputation to fuel this Amethyst ring of yours.
And now back to my original statement in newly worded phrases (ooh happy fun time).....let the Warlords have there fun in the sun and challenge. Huma loves the 4th ring and now he's got it back. Let him enjoy it and when the time comes if Morgan wants it back she can do so by challenging.
Looking for intelligent responses,
Fala
(note by da Fala: oh and sorry for misspelling Amethyst ring many times, I have a feeling I didn't spell it correct once)
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 01:57:55 EST
It is my place, Gimzak, to speak my mind, and act as I see fit.
As to challenging you myself, I have no desire to hold another ring; in fact, if you'll note, I have not come out of retirement yet. I care not for personal reward; I care about this community. I have nothing whatsoever to prove in the rings.
It is, I confess, sad to see that - when pressed to stand tall with your convictions - that you react exactly like so many others whose names are spoken with derision. I hope you're content with that knowledge.
You made a decision based on your principles. You knew, going in, what the consequences would be - and, in fact, I suspect you welcomed them, until they became truth, based on your concerns. Deal with them, rather than whining like a child.
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 01:57:55 EST
It is my place, Gimzak, to speak my mind, and act as I see fit.
As to challenging you myself, I have no desire to hold another ring; in fact, if you'll note, I have not come out of retirement yet. I care not for personal reward; I care about this community. I have nothing whatsoever to prove in the rings.
It is, I confess, sad to see that - when pressed to stand tall with your convictions - that you react exactly like so many others whose names are spoken with derision. I hope you're content with that knowledge.
You made a decision based on your principles. You knew, going in, what the consequences would be - and, in fact, I suspect you welcomed them, until they became truth, based on your concerns. Deal with them, rather than whining like a child.
Ian Rex.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 02:02:16 EST
Falablah:
The rules are to prevent utter chaos. Personal decisions of worth are completely different.
I choose to stand against those whose actions disgrace the rings. In turn, I choose to stand against those who support those people. You would think, wouldn't you, that coming out and saying so, rather than hiding behind blatant manure as some do, would be an admirable trait?
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 02:02:16 EST
Falablah:
The rules are to prevent utter chaos. Personal decisions of worth are completely different.
I choose to stand against those whose actions disgrace the rings. In turn, I choose to stand against those who support those people. You would think, wouldn't you, that coming out and saying so, rather than hiding behind blatant manure as some do, would be an admirable trait?
Ian Rex.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: jakemheart@aol.com (JakeMHeart)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 02:06:13 EST
Nothing wrong with twisting around his fate. It's all in good fun. Fun.
Galent BlueStone
New Lord of Ice
Now second in command of the realm of Death, Darkness and Dread.
The clan of Lord Miro Lancaster Shiro-Le Frast
Date: 15 Feb 1999 02:06:13 EST
Nothing wrong with twisting around his fate. It's all in good fun. Fun.
Galent BlueStone
New Lord of Ice
Now second in command of the realm of Death, Darkness and Dread.
The clan of Lord Miro Lancaster Shiro-Le Frast
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 02:45:02 EST
Jeffrey,
I hae known thee long an' well. I am disappointed that thee wouldst hae e'en considered standing at champion for such ast Huma Oathbreaker Dragonbane for anna reason. Thee above all know I wouldst nae dispute that thee hae hae earned thine place nor that thee hae most assuredly the right to choose thine way. Yet, indeed, I am disappointed in thee, mine friend.
Saddened,
Jona.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 02:45:02 EST
Jeffrey,
I hae known thee long an' well. I am disappointed that thee wouldst hae e'en considered standing at champion for such ast Huma Oathbreaker Dragonbane for anna reason. Thee above all know I wouldst nae dispute that thee hae hae earned thine place nor that thee hae most assuredly the right to choose thine way. Yet, indeed, I am disappointed in thee, mine friend.
Saddened,
Jona.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: lorduziel@aol.com (Lord Uziel)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:10:31 EST
Ian,
How about we do this. This community has more than enough fine, upstanding members in it to police itself rather well. Should you not be here and your Amethyst Ring not be in existence, the community would cull and remove those it did not believe in within the titled ranks of this Arena's nobility without your insistence or your grouping of duelers that wished to do so.
So out of just a fit of pure logic here....would not is be best to continue letting the community police itself? And not formalize it to the level where there was something to be despised or disliked by certain elements of the community? Passive in essence or not, the Amethyst Ring has claimed an authority of judgement...and authority is not something that settles well with some. So mayhaps its better to let the community do the job the
Amethyst Ring has taking on....as in my experience here...its never been something to hard for this community to divest itself of those it did not wish in power.
Thoughtfully,
~Adonai Uziel
~Dragonlord of Rhydin
~Twice Baron of the Seventh
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:10:31 EST
Ian,
How about we do this. This community has more than enough fine, upstanding members in it to police itself rather well. Should you not be here and your Amethyst Ring not be in existence, the community would cull and remove those it did not believe in within the titled ranks of this Arena's nobility without your insistence or your grouping of duelers that wished to do so.
So out of just a fit of pure logic here....would not is be best to continue letting the community police itself? And not formalize it to the level where there was something to be despised or disliked by certain elements of the community? Passive in essence or not, the Amethyst Ring has claimed an authority of judgement...and authority is not something that settles well with some. So mayhaps its better to let the community do the job the
Amethyst Ring has taking on....as in my experience here...its never been something to hard for this community to divest itself of those it did not wish in power.
Thoughtfully,
~Adonai Uziel
~Dragonlord of Rhydin
~Twice Baron of the Seventh
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:20:07 EST
Now I am a child Iain? Now I whine?
I think not sir. This is not a case of someone whining. This is a case of someone standing up for what he believes in.
I believe you sir, are wrong in what you speak. The community can well police itself without someone employing gestapo like tactics and threats.
Can I point out for a moment though that I have heard nothing negative,save yourself, Jona and Morgan, on my actions. May I point out that there was indeed support for what I did. Not that I needed it, but it is welcome now.
I have brought honor to the ring I wear Iain. I wear it proudly every day. I will continue to do so untill it is won by another.
It saddens me greatly though that you decline the invitation I have set forth to duel though. Perhaps your words will continue to be your sword then.
Gim
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:20:07 EST
Now I am a child Iain? Now I whine?
I think not sir. This is not a case of someone whining. This is a case of someone standing up for what he believes in.
I believe you sir, are wrong in what you speak. The community can well police itself without someone employing gestapo like tactics and threats.
Can I point out for a moment though that I have heard nothing negative,save yourself, Jona and Morgan, on my actions. May I point out that there was indeed support for what I did. Not that I needed it, but it is welcome now.
I have brought honor to the ring I wear Iain. I wear it proudly every day. I will continue to do so untill it is won by another.
It saddens me greatly though that you decline the invitation I have set forth to duel though. Perhaps your words will continue to be your sword then.
Gim
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:26:10 EST
Baron Oakenshield writes:
"Short note from me,
If Gim hadn't stepped in I would have. I don't care if its Huma or anyone else, long have I believed barons should defend deir own ring, and I have not (since my 3rd defense) ever asked or allowed an Overlord ta step in on my behalf. I can preach all I want, but I figure its time ta actually do somethin' now dat I am indeed a Renegade.
Ta all da warlords wantin' ta challenge but fearin' intercession, drop me a missive and I'll back ya against Marzan. Glad Gim stepped up, g'luck against da Amethyst Ring.
~J
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:26:10 EST
Baron Oakenshield writes:
"Short note from me,
If Gim hadn't stepped in I would have. I don't care if its Huma or anyone else, long have I believed barons should defend deir own ring, and I have not (since my 3rd defense) ever asked or allowed an Overlord ta step in on my behalf. I can preach all I want, but I figure its time ta actually do somethin' now dat I am indeed a Renegade.
Ta all da warlords wantin' ta challenge but fearin' intercession, drop me a missive and I'll back ya against Marzan. Glad Gim stepped up, g'luck against da Amethyst Ring.
~J
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:56:24 EST
Baron Gimzak.
I ask you to read the words I wrote to Baron Oakenshield.
Though you and I are both good friends to G, I admit I hardly know you... yet your change of heart, much like Baron Oakenshield's, seems to stem from the fact that Dalamar is no longer Overlord.
If I am wrong, prove me wrong.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 03:56:24 EST
Baron Gimzak.
I ask you to read the words I wrote to Baron Oakenshield.
Though you and I are both good friends to G, I admit I hardly know you... yet your change of heart, much like Baron Oakenshield's, seems to stem from the fact that Dalamar is no longer Overlord.
If I am wrong, prove me wrong.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: baphelocts@aol.com (Baphelocts)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 08:28:06 EST
My friend the Disco Dwarf, and more importantly Baron Gimmzak Stonecutter,
Drac Diggler's blade will always be at your disposal against any and all opponents who would come at you for political reasons. You stood for what you beleive for the principal of the matter regardless of those involved. That I respect and admire, and knowing you in the time I have, know your heart to be true to the ways of the rings.
Regardless of your foe, and those who seek to hunt you down for being dwarf enough to stand up and fight for what you beleive in, I shall fight by thee side. More people need to follow your example of taking the risks and putting your neck on the line to try to make effective change.
The WarDrac, Baphelocutis est Lathadoscia.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 08:28:06 EST
My friend the Disco Dwarf, and more importantly Baron Gimmzak Stonecutter,
Drac Diggler's blade will always be at your disposal against any and all opponents who would come at you for political reasons. You stood for what you beleive for the principal of the matter regardless of those involved. That I respect and admire, and knowing you in the time I have, know your heart to be true to the ways of the rings.
Regardless of your foe, and those who seek to hunt you down for being dwarf enough to stand up and fight for what you beleive in, I shall fight by thee side. More people need to follow your example of taking the risks and putting your neck on the line to try to make effective change.
The WarDrac, Baphelocutis est Lathadoscia.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 10:29:31 EST
"Gestapo-like tactics and threats."
I wait, with bated breath, for you to level this accusation directly at every other party who has said, during your tenure here, that if person A does thing B, they'd best expect a challenge.
I stand my ground. A man with any self-respect and nobility about him would simply nod his head, knowing that the action he took was resulting in exactly the response he knew would be forthcoming. As it stands, I am fully aware of your conversation with one party, in which you fretted and worried that I would hold my ground on this issue.
Understand this:
If I were in possession of a ring, or the Overlord title - and, in fact, on those occasions in the past when I have been - if I took action which a member of this community, respected or otherwise, objected to so strenuously that they sought my removal, then so be it. If your principles mean enough to you, you will stand and defend them; whether those principles are "right" or not is irrelevant. That is why, even though I may violently disagree
with certain parties, they will have my respect; their principles do not change, or if they do change, there is an understanable rationale that has nothing to do with which way the wind is blowing.
Had you simply accepted that your action would hold this consequence, you would have my respect, even as events fell into place as expected. You would have been the target of a purely political move, which held no personal disdain.
Unfortunately, you have turned that into yet another round of "Let's whip the cur."
Baron Uziel made certain comments elsewhere about how we "all" are guilty of this, that, and the other. Perhaps. Yet I would point out in no uncertain terms who it was who affixed a message to this post complaining about their lot in life. I did not begin this discussion; in fact, until you chose to imitate the lesser lights of this arena, I had said little at all about the circumstance. You knew, the moment you stepped into the ring to interfere
with the Overlord's right to test the worthiness of a Warlord he felt unacceptable, that challenge was coming your way.
If you were truly interested in anything you claim to be, knowing this fact, you would have at least addressed it specifically beforehand. You would have attempted to explain your position. You would have taken the time to understand the opposing view.
You did none of these things, and for you to stand up publicly and complain now that your actions have had the precise effect you knew they would have - indeed, the precise effect that ANYONE in this community with even the faintest glimmerings of sentience knew they would have - is at best naive... and at worst infantile.
Lastly, I have not declined an invitation to duel. I have declined a petulant insistence that I come out of retirement and exert myself in order to gain the qualifications to battle for something I have no desire to obtain. There is no reason whatsoever for me to do so, when there are Warlords who DO wish to hold Baronies, and will act in the name of my cause. If, however, you wish a duel of honor over this issue, I would be MORE than happy to
oblige you. However, the only acceptable terms I can imagine to such a duel would require you, in the event of your defeat, to do something I refuse to countenance, regardless of the Baron in question. That is unacceptable.
Should you think you have something sufficient to wager against the cessation of my organization's cause against you, feel free to offer it.
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 10:29:31 EST
"Gestapo-like tactics and threats."
I wait, with bated breath, for you to level this accusation directly at every other party who has said, during your tenure here, that if person A does thing B, they'd best expect a challenge.
I stand my ground. A man with any self-respect and nobility about him would simply nod his head, knowing that the action he took was resulting in exactly the response he knew would be forthcoming. As it stands, I am fully aware of your conversation with one party, in which you fretted and worried that I would hold my ground on this issue.
Understand this:
If I were in possession of a ring, or the Overlord title - and, in fact, on those occasions in the past when I have been - if I took action which a member of this community, respected or otherwise, objected to so strenuously that they sought my removal, then so be it. If your principles mean enough to you, you will stand and defend them; whether those principles are "right" or not is irrelevant. That is why, even though I may violently disagree
with certain parties, they will have my respect; their principles do not change, or if they do change, there is an understanable rationale that has nothing to do with which way the wind is blowing.
Had you simply accepted that your action would hold this consequence, you would have my respect, even as events fell into place as expected. You would have been the target of a purely political move, which held no personal disdain.
Unfortunately, you have turned that into yet another round of "Let's whip the cur."
Baron Uziel made certain comments elsewhere about how we "all" are guilty of this, that, and the other. Perhaps. Yet I would point out in no uncertain terms who it was who affixed a message to this post complaining about their lot in life. I did not begin this discussion; in fact, until you chose to imitate the lesser lights of this arena, I had said little at all about the circumstance. You knew, the moment you stepped into the ring to interfere
with the Overlord's right to test the worthiness of a Warlord he felt unacceptable, that challenge was coming your way.
If you were truly interested in anything you claim to be, knowing this fact, you would have at least addressed it specifically beforehand. You would have attempted to explain your position. You would have taken the time to understand the opposing view.
You did none of these things, and for you to stand up publicly and complain now that your actions have had the precise effect you knew they would have - indeed, the precise effect that ANYONE in this community with even the faintest glimmerings of sentience knew they would have - is at best naive... and at worst infantile.
Lastly, I have not declined an invitation to duel. I have declined a petulant insistence that I come out of retirement and exert myself in order to gain the qualifications to battle for something I have no desire to obtain. There is no reason whatsoever for me to do so, when there are Warlords who DO wish to hold Baronies, and will act in the name of my cause. If, however, you wish a duel of honor over this issue, I would be MORE than happy to
oblige you. However, the only acceptable terms I can imagine to such a duel would require you, in the event of your defeat, to do something I refuse to countenance, regardless of the Baron in question. That is unacceptable.
Should you think you have something sufficient to wager against the cessation of my organization's cause against you, feel free to offer it.
Ian Rex.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 10:35:44 EST
Baron Uziel:
You may, indeed, be correct; however, I am not interested in how things "settle with some." I have made my stance known, in bold fashion. Those who object are more than welcome to take the same action; namely, challenging those who earn Baronies while claiming loyalty to the cause of the Amethyst Ring.
Rest assured, those souls will accept their circumstance, head held high.
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 10:35:44 EST
Baron Uziel:
You may, indeed, be correct; however, I am not interested in how things "settle with some." I have made my stance known, in bold fashion. Those who object are more than welcome to take the same action; namely, challenging those who earn Baronies while claiming loyalty to the cause of the Amethyst Ring.
Rest assured, those souls will accept their circumstance, head held high.
Ian Rex.