From: foxxgrrl@aol.com (Foxxgrrl)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 11:26:18 EST
"This community has more than enough fine, upstanding members in it to police itself rather well. Should you not be here and your Amethyst Ring not be in existence, the community would cull and remove those it did not believe in within the titled ranks of this Arena's nobility without your insistence or your grouping of duelers that wished to do so."
"The community can well police itself without someone employing gestapo like tactics and threats."
To everyone thinking thoughts along these lines:
The Amethyst ring is part of the community. It is not made up of imported mercenaries hired to steal rings and let Ian dictate all their policies and political motions. Indeed, the founder of the ring is not only a currently active member of the community, but one renowned throughout the history of the Duel of Swords. I do not know when he first walked through the door of the Arena, but he has been here longer and seen more than I have. On a
personal note, I remember an earlier incarnation of the Amethyst ring. This is not a terrorist organization or a quest for political power, it is one man standing up for what he believes in.
Please don't tell me that's now grounds for crucifixion.
-Ally
Hell's Angels come reeling in, shrieking Day-Glo, then clumping together on the floor under the black light and then most gentle Buddha blissly passing around among themselves various glittering Angel esoterica.. -Tom Wolfe
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 11:32:50 EST
Uziel, I think it is, again, rather ironic you of all people complaining about the Amethyst Ring's intentions.
If the community had, indeed, been successful in culling out the rabble, the likes of Huma and you would not be here today sitting as whining, fickle barons. Oh, you thought it was oh so noble to claim loyalty to the Overlord by holding over his head the threat that at any time you can and will retract your loyalty if he does not act like your obedient puppet?
Date: 15 Feb 1999 11:32:50 EST
Uziel, I think it is, again, rather ironic you of all people complaining about the Amethyst Ring's intentions.
If the community had, indeed, been successful in culling out the rabble, the likes of Huma and you would not be here today sitting as whining, fickle barons. Oh, you thought it was oh so noble to claim loyalty to the Overlord by holding over his head the threat that at any time you can and will retract your loyalty if he does not act like your obedient puppet?
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 12:52:26 EST
On da contrary Drake,
My friendship ta Dalamar transcended any political motivations or beliefs I had, I let him run his show how he saw fit. However, it didn't change how I felt, and he was well aware of my discontent with his intercessions.
On da matter of championin' an Overlord, tis a much different matter in my eyes. We have but a single Overlord and he/she is deemed da supreme dueler of DoS. Such a title is highly respected and rightly so should be highly protected.
Hope dis clears up any of yer questions Drake.
~J
Date: 15 Feb 1999 12:52:26 EST
On da contrary Drake,
My friendship ta Dalamar transcended any political motivations or beliefs I had, I let him run his show how he saw fit. However, it didn't change how I felt, and he was well aware of my discontent with his intercessions.
On da matter of championin' an Overlord, tis a much different matter in my eyes. We have but a single Overlord and he/she is deemed da supreme dueler of DoS. Such a title is highly respected and rightly so should be highly protected.
Hope dis clears up any of yer questions Drake.
~J
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From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 13:53:10 EST
>>This is not a terrorist organization or a quest for political power, it is one man standing up for what he believes in.<<
All,
I write this letter from my sickbed, and I will be happy when I can place such an answer on the board myself instead of having others do so for me.
The above statement is an interesting one.When House Rising made a very similar statement of goals, intent, and means of reaching them, it was called just that. A terrorist organization. These goals, in fact, were not too far from those of the Ring. Some of the very people defending or supporting the Ring now were the very people calling Rising a terrorist organization. Interesting.
This aside, I do not believe the Amethyst Ring to be a terrorist organization. Yet. Whether it becomes so will be decided by whether it chooses to meet its goals by positive example, or through fear. So far I have seen vicious and uncalled for verbal attacks and insults against worthy Barons. Hardly the positive example anyone should set. I agree with their goals, but so far they need to seriously think upon their tactics.
The moral high ground is a very slippery mountainside. I have been in that position, fallen from it, and climbed to it again, only to fall again in the minds of many. It is fascinating to see the champions of honor sink to the petty, dishonorable, and obnoxious tactics of slander and mudslinging. If they wish to bring honor to the rings, they must find a way to demonstrate honor, and not bile, on the boards. Here, where many read their words and
opinions, they deliberately choose to make themselves as obnoxious and abusive as those they claim dishonorable. Indeed, when one looks at the words of the Barons they attack and the words of the attackers, I don't think it is Jaycynda Ashleana or Gimmzak Stonecutter who looks dishonorable.
Again, if you truly want to bring honor to the rings, show honor on the boards. Morgan, Ian, and Jona's posts are indistinguishable from those of Adonai and Huma in terms of bile, spleen, and abuse. If you wish to be seen as more honorable than those you deem dishonorable, you must behave more honorably. It is that simple. It is fascinating that the same behavior in Morgan and Adonai is 'refreshing honesty' from Morgan and 'petty ranting' from
Adonai. Both seem childish bickering.
The way to bring honor to the Arena is not, as I once thought, the way of conflict and divisiveness and petty politics. It is the way of unity, sportsmanship, and friendship. Our Overlord has seen this, and does his best to promote it. We should follow his example in both our posts and our behavior. There are far worse example than Eros.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 15 Feb 1999 13:53:10 EST
>>This is not a terrorist organization or a quest for political power, it is one man standing up for what he believes in.<<
All,
I write this letter from my sickbed, and I will be happy when I can place such an answer on the board myself instead of having others do so for me.
The above statement is an interesting one.When House Rising made a very similar statement of goals, intent, and means of reaching them, it was called just that. A terrorist organization. These goals, in fact, were not too far from those of the Ring. Some of the very people defending or supporting the Ring now were the very people calling Rising a terrorist organization. Interesting.
This aside, I do not believe the Amethyst Ring to be a terrorist organization. Yet. Whether it becomes so will be decided by whether it chooses to meet its goals by positive example, or through fear. So far I have seen vicious and uncalled for verbal attacks and insults against worthy Barons. Hardly the positive example anyone should set. I agree with their goals, but so far they need to seriously think upon their tactics.
The moral high ground is a very slippery mountainside. I have been in that position, fallen from it, and climbed to it again, only to fall again in the minds of many. It is fascinating to see the champions of honor sink to the petty, dishonorable, and obnoxious tactics of slander and mudslinging. If they wish to bring honor to the rings, they must find a way to demonstrate honor, and not bile, on the boards. Here, where many read their words and
opinions, they deliberately choose to make themselves as obnoxious and abusive as those they claim dishonorable. Indeed, when one looks at the words of the Barons they attack and the words of the attackers, I don't think it is Jaycynda Ashleana or Gimmzak Stonecutter who looks dishonorable.
Again, if you truly want to bring honor to the rings, show honor on the boards. Morgan, Ian, and Jona's posts are indistinguishable from those of Adonai and Huma in terms of bile, spleen, and abuse. If you wish to be seen as more honorable than those you deem dishonorable, you must behave more honorably. It is that simple. It is fascinating that the same behavior in Morgan and Adonai is 'refreshing honesty' from Morgan and 'petty ranting' from
Adonai. Both seem childish bickering.
The way to bring honor to the Arena is not, as I once thought, the way of conflict and divisiveness and petty politics. It is the way of unity, sportsmanship, and friendship. Our Overlord has seen this, and does his best to promote it. We should follow his example in both our posts and our behavior. There are far worse example than Eros.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 14:46:37 EST
And then we have condescending snippets posted by a world-class pedant who sucks up to criminals, sociopaths, oathbreakers, lawbreakers, bigots, and manipulative sneaks and insists his friends are worthy. Worthy of what, I am not sure, perhaps a swift kick in the pants. Maybe the one who needs to change his tactics and how he chooses his friends is the esteemed Duke.
If the invalid pedant would like to see positive examples set, perhaps he should start doing so first. Acting the part of disappointed daddy to all of his poor undeserving children is hardly putting his best foot forward. It is humorous to see admonishments from a man who demands setting a positive example from everyone but himself.
If anyone should follow Eros' example, methinks Percival should be the first to start. Until then, as long as he criticizes and condescends to others (along with his ranting good old boys), I shall be there to return fire.
Percival, you are hardly the picture of a model humanitarian above scrutiny and criticism, so kindly stop acting like you are. In other words, if you do not wish to see criticism and negativity on the boards, try by removing it from your own contributions rather than demanding it be removed from other's.
Dependably Blunt,
Morgan
Date: 15 Feb 1999 14:46:37 EST
And then we have condescending snippets posted by a world-class pedant who sucks up to criminals, sociopaths, oathbreakers, lawbreakers, bigots, and manipulative sneaks and insists his friends are worthy. Worthy of what, I am not sure, perhaps a swift kick in the pants. Maybe the one who needs to change his tactics and how he chooses his friends is the esteemed Duke.
If the invalid pedant would like to see positive examples set, perhaps he should start doing so first. Acting the part of disappointed daddy to all of his poor undeserving children is hardly putting his best foot forward. It is humorous to see admonishments from a man who demands setting a positive example from everyone but himself.
If anyone should follow Eros' example, methinks Percival should be the first to start. Until then, as long as he criticizes and condescends to others (along with his ranting good old boys), I shall be there to return fire.
Percival, you are hardly the picture of a model humanitarian above scrutiny and criticism, so kindly stop acting like you are. In other words, if you do not wish to see criticism and negativity on the boards, try by removing it from your own contributions rather than demanding it be removed from other's.
Dependably Blunt,
Morgan
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 15:21:56 EST
Yes, the individuals involved are members of the community, but by announcing "We have formed together to lash out at anyone who disagrees with us" is an intent to bestow terror.
In fact, getting together as friends and privately vowing to do such a thing maybe isn't so bad, but I haven't looked at every possible event with this. It's all pretty unclear, but that's how I see it at the moment.
One person saying such intent I don't think is wrong, because the person would be handling it themself.
Before someone starts yelling out, "What about what you said to Gimmzak about you rather a friend taking the ring?" I mean what I say. I am not telling any of my friends to go out and challenge Gim, but I would rather see a friend hold a ring, and Gim is someone I don't want to see as a baron. Either way, I am not telling anyone to "go out and get Gim".
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 15 Feb 1999 15:21:56 EST
Yes, the individuals involved are members of the community, but by announcing "We have formed together to lash out at anyone who disagrees with us" is an intent to bestow terror.
In fact, getting together as friends and privately vowing to do such a thing maybe isn't so bad, but I haven't looked at every possible event with this. It's all pretty unclear, but that's how I see it at the moment.
One person saying such intent I don't think is wrong, because the person would be handling it themself.
Before someone starts yelling out, "What about what you said to Gimmzak about you rather a friend taking the ring?" I mean what I say. I am not telling any of my friends to go out and challenge Gim, but I would rather see a friend hold a ring, and Gim is someone I don't want to see as a baron. Either way, I am not telling anyone to "go out and get Gim".
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Warlord of Duel of Swords¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 16:38:04 EST
I will first reply to Drake.
Yes, I guess you could say that my change of heart is due to Dalamar not being Overlord. I am aloud to change my mind. I have nothing against Eros, in fact, I respect him greatly in the short time I've come to know him. That is why I aligned Neutral. We the creatures that walk this place have this thing called free will...it allows me to change my mind as I see fit. I do not want my words to seem harsh to you Drake for they are not. I hold you in the
highest respect as well. I am just trying to explain as you have asked.
Ian,
First let me say that perhaps "gestapo like tactics" was a bit to harsh of a phrase.
Never once was I worried about the Ring comming after me. In all honesty I expected it soon enough.
Self-respect and nobility? I have both, though I don't brag about it. I knew exactilly what my actions would bring. Do you see me backing down or trying to beg forgivness? No. I explained myself to Morgan, who is really the only person I need explain my actions to, if anyone, at all.
To those that have shown support for my actions, indirectly or directly, I thank you sincerly from the bottom of my heart. It shows me that there are others that understood what I did and why.
The thoughts of an Honor Duel with you Ian intrigues me greatly, I will come up with a sufficient wager and contact you in private first about this.
Gim
Date: 15 Feb 1999 16:38:04 EST
I will first reply to Drake.
Yes, I guess you could say that my change of heart is due to Dalamar not being Overlord. I am aloud to change my mind. I have nothing against Eros, in fact, I respect him greatly in the short time I've come to know him. That is why I aligned Neutral. We the creatures that walk this place have this thing called free will...it allows me to change my mind as I see fit. I do not want my words to seem harsh to you Drake for they are not. I hold you in the
highest respect as well. I am just trying to explain as you have asked.
Ian,
First let me say that perhaps "gestapo like tactics" was a bit to harsh of a phrase.
Never once was I worried about the Ring comming after me. In all honesty I expected it soon enough.
Self-respect and nobility? I have both, though I don't brag about it. I knew exactilly what my actions would bring. Do you see me backing down or trying to beg forgivness? No. I explained myself to Morgan, who is really the only person I need explain my actions to, if anyone, at all.
To those that have shown support for my actions, indirectly or directly, I thank you sincerly from the bottom of my heart. It shows me that there are others that understood what I did and why.
The thoughts of an Honor Duel with you Ian intrigues me greatly, I will come up with a sufficient wager and contact you in private first about this.
Gim
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 16:46:18 EST
To every person in RhyDin,
Only on a rare few occasions have I actually seen the pen be mightier than the sword. Here's a good idea, I think anyway.
How about we all shut the hell up and take it to a ring? I thought I had a bag attitude and big ego, not a single person here, along with myself, knows when to just shut the bloody blue blazes up. This pertains to all subjects discussed in the arena, and on this corkboard. Enough of the stupid bickering already. Let go the ego's, I don't care who gets last word in on me, why should anyone else? Talk means jack nowadays. Shut up and
duel...this is supposed to be fun.
Huma
Date: 15 Feb 1999 16:46:18 EST
To every person in RhyDin,
Only on a rare few occasions have I actually seen the pen be mightier than the sword. Here's a good idea, I think anyway.
How about we all shut the hell up and take it to a ring? I thought I had a bag attitude and big ego, not a single person here, along with myself, knows when to just shut the bloody blue blazes up. This pertains to all subjects discussed in the arena, and on this corkboard. Enough of the stupid bickering already. Let go the ego's, I don't care who gets last word in on me, why should anyone else? Talk means jack nowadays. Shut up and
duel...this is supposed to be fun.
Huma
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:12:45 EST
Lady A, who has the same flaws, speaks out against certain actions and flaws of certain arena patrons. Mister B scolds them for doing such without repairing their own flawed manner. Lady A reacts by commenting upon the ironic manner of Mister B's words, who holds the same flaws, and is speaking against the flawed actions of Lady A. In the course of Lady A's reaction, he drags in a Mr. C, who has a continuing verbal
feud with Sir D. Mr. C scolds A and B, and then C is scolded by ABC. Who's fixing the flaws while this is happening? Certainly not EFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUV, WXY, and Z. Not tah say this post is helping much, but only the specific letters of the alphabet can correct their own spe...err...flaws. So I'm jast stating what I see. The previous cycle continues, and being very little flaws are resolved due to continual flaw-filled fighting, feuds and flaws fill
the day fecause the fycle is fot froken. So..my suggestion? Have a nice big arena meeting, where we hug and talk and recite are names like in those AA meetings I att...oh, wait, shouldn't tell yah dat...anyways, we can arbitrate our personal bickerings and differences, possibly placing the community into a positive mindset, focus on specefic problems, not as feuding persons...but members of the community working to fix an irking adversity, and
finally...we can consume great quantities of coffee cake. Err...disregard the last sentence.
Note: The identities of the person(s), committee(s), organization(s), adjoined cluster(s), supporter(s), and any affiliated persona, are wherein, under the discretion of the author; hidden. Yes, the author is senile.
Coron.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:12:45 EST
Lady A, who has the same flaws, speaks out against certain actions and flaws of certain arena patrons. Mister B scolds them for doing such without repairing their own flawed manner. Lady A reacts by commenting upon the ironic manner of Mister B's words, who holds the same flaws, and is speaking against the flawed actions of Lady A. In the course of Lady A's reaction, he drags in a Mr. C, who has a continuing verbal
feud with Sir D. Mr. C scolds A and B, and then C is scolded by ABC. Who's fixing the flaws while this is happening? Certainly not EFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUV, WXY, and Z. Not tah say this post is helping much, but only the specific letters of the alphabet can correct their own spe...err...flaws. So I'm jast stating what I see. The previous cycle continues, and being very little flaws are resolved due to continual flaw-filled fighting, feuds and flaws fill
the day fecause the fycle is fot froken. So..my suggestion? Have a nice big arena meeting, where we hug and talk and recite are names like in those AA meetings I att...oh, wait, shouldn't tell yah dat...anyways, we can arbitrate our personal bickerings and differences, possibly placing the community into a positive mindset, focus on specefic problems, not as feuding persons...but members of the community working to fix an irking adversity, and
finally...we can consume great quantities of coffee cake. Err...disregard the last sentence.
Note: The identities of the person(s), committee(s), organization(s), adjoined cluster(s), supporter(s), and any affiliated persona, are wherein, under the discretion of the author; hidden. Yes, the author is senile.
Coron.
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:15:32 EST
> So I'm jast stating what I see.<
Hey Coron...your blind ::grins to himself:: don't ya mean what you hear?
in jest,
Huma
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:15:32 EST
> So I'm jast stating what I see.<
Hey Coron...your blind ::grins to himself:: don't ya mean what you hear?
in jest,
Huma
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:22:35 EST
::laughs::
Ah can see a literal oaf.
Joking,
Coron.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:22:35 EST
::laughs::
Ah can see a literal oaf.
Joking,
Coron.
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:41:47 EST
Duke Percival:
I understand it may take some time for your messengers to respond. I hope your recovery proceeds apace.
When you've the time, I would sincerely appreciate you clarifying exactly which members of the Amethyst Ring you perceive as having offered unwarranted insult and verbal attack to which worthy Barons. If responding with disdain to the infantile complaining of one who refuses to accept that his actions have consequence is "uncalled for," then how, indeed, do you describe Baron Stonecutter's comments?
I strongly suspect that you assume certain parties are members of the Ring, when in fact, they are not. Lady Cornwall is not. Lady Starfare is not.
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:41:47 EST
Duke Percival:
I understand it may take some time for your messengers to respond. I hope your recovery proceeds apace.
When you've the time, I would sincerely appreciate you clarifying exactly which members of the Amethyst Ring you perceive as having offered unwarranted insult and verbal attack to which worthy Barons. If responding with disdain to the infantile complaining of one who refuses to accept that his actions have consequence is "uncalled for," then how, indeed, do you describe Baron Stonecutter's comments?
I strongly suspect that you assume certain parties are members of the Ring, when in fact, they are not. Lady Cornwall is not. Lady Starfare is not.
Ian Rex.
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:43:39 EST
Lord Medici:
"In fact, getting together as friends and privately vowing to do such a thing maybe isn't so bad, but I haven't looked at every possible event with this."
You feel, then, that hidden conspiracy is more noble than open policy?
Ian Rex.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:43:39 EST
Lord Medici:
"In fact, getting together as friends and privately vowing to do such a thing maybe isn't so bad, but I haven't looked at every possible event with this."
You feel, then, that hidden conspiracy is more noble than open policy?
Ian Rex.
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From: ducpercy@aol.com (DucPercy)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:57:50 EST
>>When you've the time, I would sincerely appreciate you clarifying exactly which members of the Amethyst Ring you perceive as having offered unwarranted insult and verbal attack to which worthy Barons. If responding with disdain to the infantile complaining of one who refuses to accept that his actions have consequence is "uncalled for," then how, indeed, do you describe Baron
Stonecutter's comments?<<
Your Majesty,
Thank you for your well wishes. My recovery is growing more rapid. I hope to be back in the rings in a week or two, and to have returned to my other duties a few weeks after that.
As for clarification, I can do that. Baron Stonecutter's comments are as 'straightfoward' and 'honest' as the attacks made against him that you praise so highly. Yet he is condemned for his remarks and his attackers praised. In my opinion, he is not 'whining', merely asking that he who has a problem with him face him himself. This sounds more like a challenge, and a correct one as well, than whining.
As for members of the Ring, I have only seen one, of whom I sure for certain, post. That would be you. You have made attacks and slanders as vile as any made by Huma against Morgan, only you have made them against Jaycy and Gimmzak. As far as worthiness goes, Jaycynda Ashleana is probably the most worthy of our current crop of Barons in terms of both personal convictions and her loyalty to those convictions. Your convictions currently differ. It
does not make either one of you more or less honorable. You are equally honorable individuals who find yourself at odds.
It is possible to be on opposite sides of an issue without either side being 'evil', 'dishonorable', or 'sociopathic.' It is possible to disagree, debate, even argue violently without insult, slander, and bile that degrades the orator as much as the target.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 15 Feb 1999 17:57:50 EST
>>When you've the time, I would sincerely appreciate you clarifying exactly which members of the Amethyst Ring you perceive as having offered unwarranted insult and verbal attack to which worthy Barons. If responding with disdain to the infantile complaining of one who refuses to accept that his actions have consequence is "uncalled for," then how, indeed, do you describe Baron
Stonecutter's comments?<<
Your Majesty,
Thank you for your well wishes. My recovery is growing more rapid. I hope to be back in the rings in a week or two, and to have returned to my other duties a few weeks after that.
As for clarification, I can do that. Baron Stonecutter's comments are as 'straightfoward' and 'honest' as the attacks made against him that you praise so highly. Yet he is condemned for his remarks and his attackers praised. In my opinion, he is not 'whining', merely asking that he who has a problem with him face him himself. This sounds more like a challenge, and a correct one as well, than whining.
As for members of the Ring, I have only seen one, of whom I sure for certain, post. That would be you. You have made attacks and slanders as vile as any made by Huma against Morgan, only you have made them against Jaycy and Gimmzak. As far as worthiness goes, Jaycynda Ashleana is probably the most worthy of our current crop of Barons in terms of both personal convictions and her loyalty to those convictions. Your convictions currently differ. It
does not make either one of you more or less honorable. You are equally honorable individuals who find yourself at odds.
It is possible to be on opposite sides of an issue without either side being 'evil', 'dishonorable', or 'sociopathic.' It is possible to disagree, debate, even argue violently without insult, slander, and bile that degrades the orator as much as the target.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: sirduel@aol.com (Sir Duel)
Date: 15 Feb 1999 18:02:15 EST
"It is possible to be on opposite sides of an issue without either side being 'evil', 'dishonorable', or 'sociopathic.' It is possible to disagree, debate, even argue violently without insult, slander, and bile that degrades the orator as much as the target."
And tah add...jast because yeh are on opposite sides of a political issue, does this mean you can not be..friends? Even friends disagree on certain events, sometimes...but that is why they are friends..their bond pulls through.
Coron.
Date: 15 Feb 1999 18:02:15 EST
"It is possible to be on opposite sides of an issue without either side being 'evil', 'dishonorable', or 'sociopathic.' It is possible to disagree, debate, even argue violently without insult, slander, and bile that degrades the orator as much as the target."
And tah add...jast because yeh are on opposite sides of a political issue, does this mean you can not be..friends? Even friends disagree on certain events, sometimes...but that is why they are friends..their bond pulls through.
Coron.