From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:08:35 EDT
::says nothing to Jonalyn either before, during or after her brief conversation to Jeff::
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:16:50 EDT
Baron Var wrote: "Of course, you accuse Jona of cheating. The only person who cheated was Cygnet who was stupid enough to cheat herself and her team by dissing four times in a row.
You want to blame anyone, blame Cygnet for being the bad teammate. She had a chance of winning, but she threw it. She cheated herself and her team, so lay the blame on her for that."
I do blame her for that. However, I have discussed the matter with her and forgiven her. She was upset. I don't excuse what she's done, but I accept that it was what she chose to do.
Furthermore, I did not accuse Lady Starfare of cheating. I mearly stated that her method of dueling in that one duel made it easy for anyone watching to believe she might be cheating.
What I do believe is that her method of dueling in that one duel was rude and hardly in keeping with the ideals of an honorable duel.
Lady Starfare knows much of history, knows much of Honor and knows much of the honorable people who have dueled here, there is no denying that.
Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:16:50 EDT
Baron Var wrote: "Of course, you accuse Jona of cheating. The only person who cheated was Cygnet who was stupid enough to cheat herself and her team by dissing four times in a row.
You want to blame anyone, blame Cygnet for being the bad teammate. She had a chance of winning, but she threw it. She cheated herself and her team, so lay the blame on her for that."
I do blame her for that. However, I have discussed the matter with her and forgiven her. She was upset. I don't excuse what she's done, but I accept that it was what she chose to do.
Furthermore, I did not accuse Lady Starfare of cheating. I mearly stated that her method of dueling in that one duel made it easy for anyone watching to believe she might be cheating.
What I do believe is that her method of dueling in that one duel was rude and hardly in keeping with the ideals of an honorable duel.
Lady Starfare knows much of history, knows much of Honor and knows much of the honorable people who have dueled here, there is no denying that.
Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:29:11 EDT
::blinks:: You said she, I figured you meant someone else was a brown noser, and Ath isn't a she
::shrugs as she walks off::
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:29:11 EDT
::blinks:: You said she, I figured you meant someone else was a brown noser, and Ath isn't a she
::shrugs as she walks off::
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From: sasharexx@aol.com (Sasha Rexx)
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:42:22 EDT
Cass. Babe. If you don't want to insult me, then let me give you two little pointers. First off, don't call me "matron." Christ man, make me sound like a milk cow already. Need to give me a title? Then try miss, or wench, or scouter extraordinaire or goddess.. I kinda like goddess.. but hey, I'll leave it to you. Try not to use something that brings
visions of old livestock to mind though.
Secondly, don't insult my intelligence. A duel is a duel is a duel. The TDL ring is just as viable place for these two to get their aggressions out as the DoS ring. You made a suggestion and then faced with my little tale you regurgitated some excuse about this being DoS and not TDL.... well whip my tail and call me Nancy, there's one hell of an argument.
Lastly. Bud, you really have to work on those reading skills. Seriously. Pick up a book or something, go see Goon for lessons. Whatever works for ya' stud, but this responding to stuff you don't get makes a really bad impression.
I never said that you are a macho schmuck who believes in the "might makes rights" thing. I asked if you were. There's a difference there don't you think? The basis for the question is something you still haven't answered though, and that is: where do you get off calling people here hypocrites. What's the deal Cass? Sure lots of people are, but are you talking about something specific or just spouting off random opinions?
Sasha
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:42:22 EDT
Cass. Babe. If you don't want to insult me, then let me give you two little pointers. First off, don't call me "matron." Christ man, make me sound like a milk cow already. Need to give me a title? Then try miss, or wench, or scouter extraordinaire or goddess.. I kinda like goddess.. but hey, I'll leave it to you. Try not to use something that brings
visions of old livestock to mind though.
Secondly, don't insult my intelligence. A duel is a duel is a duel. The TDL ring is just as viable place for these two to get their aggressions out as the DoS ring. You made a suggestion and then faced with my little tale you regurgitated some excuse about this being DoS and not TDL.... well whip my tail and call me Nancy, there's one hell of an argument.
Lastly. Bud, you really have to work on those reading skills. Seriously. Pick up a book or something, go see Goon for lessons. Whatever works for ya' stud, but this responding to stuff you don't get makes a really bad impression.
I never said that you are a macho schmuck who believes in the "might makes rights" thing. I asked if you were. There's a difference there don't you think? The basis for the question is something you still haven't answered though, and that is: where do you get off calling people here hypocrites. What's the deal Cass? Sure lots of people are, but are you talking about something specific or just spouting off random opinions?
Sasha
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:49:42 EDT
Fact Two: I told him that I was not inclined to allow such a switch, because I did not feel I should pander to Lady Starfare's wishes.
It may be the case you don't wish to *ever* cater to Jonalyn's wishes because it is Jonalyn. But don't try and make it seem like Jonalyn sought to avoid Cygnet merely fer her own good, it was fer both her, Cygnet, and all members of both teams. Neither JGR or DNS needs a big conflict over somethin' fun -- ie a TDL duel.
Fact Four: I further told Brigath that, if he was aware of some personality conflict between Cygnet and Lady Starfare, he should know that there was an even larger one between the "Regent" and myself, and such a duel would be ill-advised.
Did Brigath specifically ask fer ya ta replace Cygnet? Or were ya da only remainin' sub on yer team? If either is da case yer "Fact Four" has a purpose. Otherwise, why bring it up?
Fact Five: I further stated that I would not allow him to replace Lady Starfare with a substitute duelist because, frankly, I was totally within my rights to do so. If Lady Starfare can spend endless hours watching the duels in the Arena and Annex, she can easily schedule a Team Dueling League duel.
First off, no one denied yer right ta disallow a substitution, if ya had no say Brigath wouldn't have gone ta ya at all. Secondly, Jonalyn wasn't tryin' ta avoid dueling because of a lack of time, but rather because she sought ta avoid conflict. Big difference.
Fact Seven. In the actual duel itself, Lady Starfare's only concession to the traditions she so often spouts was her actual stepping into the ring. Her so-called method of dueling was the use of magick or some other power to float a pair of daggers in the air... Prove to me that it was actually she doing the manipulation of those daggers.
What traditions do ya speak of Drakewyn, da use of swords? I myself use a battle axe. Billy Ray used sap gloves. Jesse Troyan uses plain fists. Others have used feet (kicks only). Should we all run off ta DoF or another sport? Are we not worthy ta claim ta uphold da fine tradition of DoS? She even went as far ta use material daggers rather dan magical ones, where's da break in tradition?
Fact Nine. Your obvious bias in this situation colors the entirety of your post.
Looked in da mirror lately? Yer livin' in a glass house on dis topic Drakewyn, don't toss any stones. Every single fact I have pointed out is colored in yer bias and desire ta make Jonalyn look bad. Net result: Only person lookin' bad is ya.
As for verification of that eighth fact... speak with the people who know myself and who know Cygnet.
I have known Cygnet for quite some time... and in every situation I have ever seen her in, she has carried herself with grace and dignity.
I have some colorful stories about Cygnet's "dignity" which are inappropriate ta post here. I would suggest against yer usin' her as yer model of excellence. Even without further proof, her gall ta toss away a TDL duel and hurt her own team's chances of victory merely because she is upset reaks of selfishness.
I'll duel anyone who asks me to duel in the Arena... provided I'm not working or on my way out. After all, I don't have all night to spend in the Arena... I have two daughters to care for and a Duchy to run.
Lastly, and I speculate on dis one, if yer last comment is a knock on Jona's lack of responsibility I will point out she is also a mother and queen.
Drake, I know yer not on da best of terms with Jonalyn, but when ya choose ta flame her, don't do it with pointless "facts" which don't hold up against Jona and only make ya look foolish.
~J
Date: 27 Apr 1999 23:49:42 EDT
Fact Two: I told him that I was not inclined to allow such a switch, because I did not feel I should pander to Lady Starfare's wishes.
It may be the case you don't wish to *ever* cater to Jonalyn's wishes because it is Jonalyn. But don't try and make it seem like Jonalyn sought to avoid Cygnet merely fer her own good, it was fer both her, Cygnet, and all members of both teams. Neither JGR or DNS needs a big conflict over somethin' fun -- ie a TDL duel.
Fact Four: I further told Brigath that, if he was aware of some personality conflict between Cygnet and Lady Starfare, he should know that there was an even larger one between the "Regent" and myself, and such a duel would be ill-advised.
Did Brigath specifically ask fer ya ta replace Cygnet? Or were ya da only remainin' sub on yer team? If either is da case yer "Fact Four" has a purpose. Otherwise, why bring it up?
Fact Five: I further stated that I would not allow him to replace Lady Starfare with a substitute duelist because, frankly, I was totally within my rights to do so. If Lady Starfare can spend endless hours watching the duels in the Arena and Annex, she can easily schedule a Team Dueling League duel.
First off, no one denied yer right ta disallow a substitution, if ya had no say Brigath wouldn't have gone ta ya at all. Secondly, Jonalyn wasn't tryin' ta avoid dueling because of a lack of time, but rather because she sought ta avoid conflict. Big difference.
Fact Seven. In the actual duel itself, Lady Starfare's only concession to the traditions she so often spouts was her actual stepping into the ring. Her so-called method of dueling was the use of magick or some other power to float a pair of daggers in the air... Prove to me that it was actually she doing the manipulation of those daggers.
What traditions do ya speak of Drakewyn, da use of swords? I myself use a battle axe. Billy Ray used sap gloves. Jesse Troyan uses plain fists. Others have used feet (kicks only). Should we all run off ta DoF or another sport? Are we not worthy ta claim ta uphold da fine tradition of DoS? She even went as far ta use material daggers rather dan magical ones, where's da break in tradition?
Fact Nine. Your obvious bias in this situation colors the entirety of your post.
Looked in da mirror lately? Yer livin' in a glass house on dis topic Drakewyn, don't toss any stones. Every single fact I have pointed out is colored in yer bias and desire ta make Jonalyn look bad. Net result: Only person lookin' bad is ya.
As for verification of that eighth fact... speak with the people who know myself and who know Cygnet.
I have known Cygnet for quite some time... and in every situation I have ever seen her in, she has carried herself with grace and dignity.
I have some colorful stories about Cygnet's "dignity" which are inappropriate ta post here. I would suggest against yer usin' her as yer model of excellence. Even without further proof, her gall ta toss away a TDL duel and hurt her own team's chances of victory merely because she is upset reaks of selfishness.
I'll duel anyone who asks me to duel in the Arena... provided I'm not working or on my way out. After all, I don't have all night to spend in the Arena... I have two daughters to care for and a Duchy to run.
Lastly, and I speculate on dis one, if yer last comment is a knock on Jona's lack of responsibility I will point out she is also a mother and queen.
Drake, I know yer not on da best of terms with Jonalyn, but when ya choose ta flame her, don't do it with pointless "facts" which don't hold up against Jona and only make ya look foolish.
~J
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From: dexm@aol.com (Dex M)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:07:19 EDT
::yet another boring copy, smirk::
Well said Baroness, things are so nice when we no longer play somewhat elusive. I am glad to see your fortitude once having made a decision. I am also quite happy that you have opted to respond to me this time unlike when I presented my earlier query to you and Jeff. It does help when things are aired out.
That said I would like to present a few of my concerns with your challenge openly. Your reason stated for challenge was my extended absence. I wont try to cloud the issue with flowery excuses. You are quite right, I was away. That said I have some points to bring up.
Just as you had worked of late to rectify one of your weaknesses I too had worked to rectify mine. Some might say it was as a result of the challenge but for those who would care they could peruse the records and discover that I had dueled 4 of the 5 nights PRIOR to your challenge. Since being honored to hold the title of the Crown I have spent many nights in the Arena and Annex.
So based on your logic that your weaknesses should no longer be viewed as they are in the past then why should mine be? It would stand to reason that either way the timing of your challenge has become quite nebulous if not moot as your desire was to see the Overlord as an active contributor.
Now, I am aware that many will say that I am doing this only to dodge a challenge, not so, for there may be many reasons people will challenge me after this one. I do offer this as proof that my change is neither hollow nor insincere.
First, As a Baron here, I think before your time, I took my role seriously. That was in the far past so I will continue to state that I have more recent testament of my commitment upon becoming the Steward of the Diamond in DoF many similar comments were sent my way. You are often in Fists, you can ask them, but if you were to dig deep enough you would find I was a regular presence while in a titled position. Even upon knowing I would depart I
served my full term as the Diamond. I serve when and where needed and give my all while doing so. Granted in your opinion my all may not be the same frequency as yours but I do have a wife and kids in Atrebla. I take that responsibility seriously too.
I find your reasoning to be perhaps a cover for something else now. Granted at the time of challenge it may have seemed valid but as of now it does seem hollow when you wish to press the issue despite my corrections. When you wish to have your past forgotten why cannot you forget another's?
Dex Montoya
Loyal to Rhydin
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:07:19 EDT
::yet another boring copy, smirk::
Well said Baroness, things are so nice when we no longer play somewhat elusive. I am glad to see your fortitude once having made a decision. I am also quite happy that you have opted to respond to me this time unlike when I presented my earlier query to you and Jeff. It does help when things are aired out.
That said I would like to present a few of my concerns with your challenge openly. Your reason stated for challenge was my extended absence. I wont try to cloud the issue with flowery excuses. You are quite right, I was away. That said I have some points to bring up.
Just as you had worked of late to rectify one of your weaknesses I too had worked to rectify mine. Some might say it was as a result of the challenge but for those who would care they could peruse the records and discover that I had dueled 4 of the 5 nights PRIOR to your challenge. Since being honored to hold the title of the Crown I have spent many nights in the Arena and Annex.
So based on your logic that your weaknesses should no longer be viewed as they are in the past then why should mine be? It would stand to reason that either way the timing of your challenge has become quite nebulous if not moot as your desire was to see the Overlord as an active contributor.
Now, I am aware that many will say that I am doing this only to dodge a challenge, not so, for there may be many reasons people will challenge me after this one. I do offer this as proof that my change is neither hollow nor insincere.
First, As a Baron here, I think before your time, I took my role seriously. That was in the far past so I will continue to state that I have more recent testament of my commitment upon becoming the Steward of the Diamond in DoF many similar comments were sent my way. You are often in Fists, you can ask them, but if you were to dig deep enough you would find I was a regular presence while in a titled position. Even upon knowing I would depart I
served my full term as the Diamond. I serve when and where needed and give my all while doing so. Granted in your opinion my all may not be the same frequency as yours but I do have a wife and kids in Atrebla. I take that responsibility seriously too.
I find your reasoning to be perhaps a cover for something else now. Granted at the time of challenge it may have seemed valid but as of now it does seem hollow when you wish to press the issue despite my corrections. When you wish to have your past forgotten why cannot you forget another's?
Dex Montoya
Loyal to Rhydin
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:10:45 EDT
Where do I take reading classes with Sasha? Sign up sheet please...
With humor and the utmost respect,
~ Drey D'erest Sanchez PTSIZE=14 FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">Starke ~
<~ Warlord ~>
"Left on the floor ; leaving your body : when highs are the lows ; And lows are the way : So hard to stay. Guess now you know ; I love you so."
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:10:45 EDT
Where do I take reading classes with Sasha? Sign up sheet please...
With humor and the utmost respect,
~ Drey D'erest Sanchez PTSIZE=14 FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">Starke ~
<~ Warlord ~>
"Left on the floor ; leaving your body : when highs are the lows ; And lows are the way : So hard to stay. Guess now you know ; I love you so."
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From: sasharexx@aol.com (Sasha Rexx)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:10:47 EDT
Drake,
Aside from demonstrating your ability to count from one to nine, was there something you were hoping to add there? Let's recap what I said the first time and see if anybody else can tell me what it is I'm missing.
The matchups were set. Brig gave you the chance to swap yourself in to fight Jonalyn. You passed and forced the most emotionally unbalanced duelist on your team to face her instead.
Regardless of the all the little hedges and what rights were whose, the above is still correct, babe. You had a chance to put yourself in the ring with Jonalyn and you passed on it. So.. what was it you were trying to get across again?
Ahh, well you did take this opportunity to assume you know who my sources are (or aren't, whichever the case may be), take another shot at Jonalyn for a thing that ol' man Fox already denied you any recourse for and try to make an insane mutant woman who thinks she's an angel look the picture of innocence. Deffinately time well worth spending away from those little girls and Duchy that keep you so busy.
Sasha
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:10:47 EDT
Drake,
Aside from demonstrating your ability to count from one to nine, was there something you were hoping to add there? Let's recap what I said the first time and see if anybody else can tell me what it is I'm missing.
The matchups were set. Brig gave you the chance to swap yourself in to fight Jonalyn. You passed and forced the most emotionally unbalanced duelist on your team to face her instead.
Regardless of the all the little hedges and what rights were whose, the above is still correct, babe. You had a chance to put yourself in the ring with Jonalyn and you passed on it. So.. what was it you were trying to get across again?
Ahh, well you did take this opportunity to assume you know who my sources are (or aren't, whichever the case may be), take another shot at Jonalyn for a thing that ol' man Fox already denied you any recourse for and try to make an insane mutant woman who thinks she's an angel look the picture of innocence. Deffinately time well worth spending away from those little girls and Duchy that keep you so busy.
Sasha
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:11:29 EDT
> Furthermore, I did not accuse Lady Starfare of cheating. I mearly stated
>that her method of dueling in that one duel made it easy for anyone watching
>to believe she might be cheating.
You said specifically, "Prove to me that it was actually she doing the manipulation of those daggers."
You did not say, "People would need proof that it was her doing the manipulation." You are saying you [currently, since you used a present tense verb "prove"] need proof that she manipulated it.
> Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel
>with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did.
You're right. As a matter of fact, it was raining yesterday and some of my clothes got wet. We should blame Jona for that, too.
Fact of the matter is, Jona didn't hold a knife to Cygnet and tell her to be that way. Cygnet popped her top like a shaken can of soda on her own.
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:11:29 EDT
> Furthermore, I did not accuse Lady Starfare of cheating. I mearly stated
>that her method of dueling in that one duel made it easy for anyone watching
>to believe she might be cheating.
You said specifically, "Prove to me that it was actually she doing the manipulation of those daggers."
You did not say, "People would need proof that it was her doing the manipulation." You are saying you [currently, since you used a present tense verb "prove"] need proof that she manipulated it.
> Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel
>with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did.
You're right. As a matter of fact, it was raining yesterday and some of my clothes got wet. We should blame Jona for that, too.
Fact of the matter is, Jona didn't hold a knife to Cygnet and tell her to be that way. Cygnet popped her top like a shaken can of soda on her own.
Var Medici-Giovanni
±
|¯Proud father, proud husband¯|
|¯Holder of the Tenth Ring¯|
|¯Soul dedicated to Noelle¯|
|¯Devoted to his children¯|
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:17:18 EDT
>Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel
>>with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did.
>
I don't think so... but this is an opinion. If I was offended by someone in a duel, i'd try my best to beat the pants off of them. Dropping a duel because she couldn't take a few insults... But, Jona made the mistake of causing the reaction. I don't agree with any of the two involved in the event. (any way they handled it.)
~ Drey D'erest Sanchez PTSIZE=14 FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">Starke ~
<~ Warlord ~>
"Left on the floor ; leaving your body : when highs are the lows ; And lows are the way : So hard to stay. Guess now you know ; I love you so."
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:17:18 EDT
>Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel
>>with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did.
>
I don't think so... but this is an opinion. If I was offended by someone in a duel, i'd try my best to beat the pants off of them. Dropping a duel because she couldn't take a few insults... But, Jona made the mistake of causing the reaction. I don't agree with any of the two involved in the event. (any way they handled it.)
~ Drey D'erest Sanchez PTSIZE=14 FACE="Lucida Blackletter" LANG="0">Starke ~
<~ Warlord ~>
"Left on the floor ; leaving your body : when highs are the lows ; And lows are the way : So hard to stay. Guess now you know ; I love you so."
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From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:32:39 EDT
Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel
with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did
Ta all of our community,
Haven't ya heard da latest news? It's all Jona's fault Cygnet is an unstable mental case.
~J
Date: 28 Apr 1999 00:32:39 EDT
Perhaps if she had shown that same kind of Honor and Dignity in her duel
with Cygnet, Cygnet would not have reacted the way she did
Ta all of our community,
Haven't ya heard da latest news? It's all Jona's fault Cygnet is an unstable mental case.
~J
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:28:33 EDT
Before I post further I want one question answered for me:
Did Overlord Dex make a proposal to the Baroness Jaycynda to take a challenge from a Warlord before proceeding with her challenge to the Overlord?
If that was the case, then I am ashamed for having offered my blade to the Overlord to Test the Baroness in her challenge. Everyone knows how I feel about Tests of Worthiness, but for once I felt the need to see a challenger tested.
If the Overlord did indeed make that proposal in the reasoning that she needed to be tested, that is why the Test of Worthiness was created. If the challenger succeeds in the test, or someone champions them, then they can go on to face the defender further unimpeded.
By Dex's proposal if I am understanding, or rather assuming correctly, which may not be the case, Then Jayc could take a challenge from a Warlord, defend, then challenge again to Overlord and still face another Test of Worthiness.
I offer a simpler alternative based on precedent done before. Someone challenged for Overlord as a Baron, the Overlord chose a Warlord champion, the Warlord champion had 10 peer wins. The Warlord challenged the Baron once was it announced the Warlord was the Overlord's Champion pubically for a Test of Worthiness, and so the Test became the Baron's ring defense as well. It turned out I beleive the challenger lost the test and the Baron's ring was
immediately turned over to the Warlord's Champion.
The normal way to do this as well, is to be a Warlord Champion for the Overlord, and if you defeat the challenging Baron then you have the immediate right, which superceeds all other challenges, to turn around without the need of peer wins to challenge the Baron for their title.
That was the offer and idea I had brought to the Overlord if he chose my blade as the one to preform the Test of Worthiness upon the Baroness. The Baroness Jaycynda has already proved herself in being able to defend her Baron title. The issue here is if she is worthy to attain the crown, and what if any obstacles should be put in place to her trying to attain the crown.
Do not get me wrong, I still believe the Baroness should face a Test of Worthiness. This goes beyond that to political manuevering as the Baroness so aptly pointed out by the Overlord's offer. I recommend an alternative.
The Overlord should chose a Warlord champion with 10 peer wins, announce that they are the Champion for the Test of Worthiness, and let them challenge the Baroness. The Test of Worthiness duel would be that and the Baroness's defense of her ring. Or the simpler way where a Warlord Champion if they defeat the baroness, providing they defeat whoever might stand in for the Baroness as well, can turn around and claim their right to challenge.
While I admire and respect the Baroness for other reasons I have stated before, I do approve of the fact that she has done what she can to further improve her record. I still do disapprove and still do beleive she should be Test by normal means for her challenging when her record was below 15 WoLs rather then waiting for her record to get to a more acceptable level, IMHO.
~Ecore
Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:28:33 EDT
Before I post further I want one question answered for me:
Did Overlord Dex make a proposal to the Baroness Jaycynda to take a challenge from a Warlord before proceeding with her challenge to the Overlord?
If that was the case, then I am ashamed for having offered my blade to the Overlord to Test the Baroness in her challenge. Everyone knows how I feel about Tests of Worthiness, but for once I felt the need to see a challenger tested.
If the Overlord did indeed make that proposal in the reasoning that she needed to be tested, that is why the Test of Worthiness was created. If the challenger succeeds in the test, or someone champions them, then they can go on to face the defender further unimpeded.
By Dex's proposal if I am understanding, or rather assuming correctly, which may not be the case, Then Jayc could take a challenge from a Warlord, defend, then challenge again to Overlord and still face another Test of Worthiness.
I offer a simpler alternative based on precedent done before. Someone challenged for Overlord as a Baron, the Overlord chose a Warlord champion, the Warlord champion had 10 peer wins. The Warlord challenged the Baron once was it announced the Warlord was the Overlord's Champion pubically for a Test of Worthiness, and so the Test became the Baron's ring defense as well. It turned out I beleive the challenger lost the test and the Baron's ring was
immediately turned over to the Warlord's Champion.
The normal way to do this as well, is to be a Warlord Champion for the Overlord, and if you defeat the challenging Baron then you have the immediate right, which superceeds all other challenges, to turn around without the need of peer wins to challenge the Baron for their title.
That was the offer and idea I had brought to the Overlord if he chose my blade as the one to preform the Test of Worthiness upon the Baroness. The Baroness Jaycynda has already proved herself in being able to defend her Baron title. The issue here is if she is worthy to attain the crown, and what if any obstacles should be put in place to her trying to attain the crown.
Do not get me wrong, I still believe the Baroness should face a Test of Worthiness. This goes beyond that to political manuevering as the Baroness so aptly pointed out by the Overlord's offer. I recommend an alternative.
The Overlord should chose a Warlord champion with 10 peer wins, announce that they are the Champion for the Test of Worthiness, and let them challenge the Baroness. The Test of Worthiness duel would be that and the Baroness's defense of her ring. Or the simpler way where a Warlord Champion if they defeat the baroness, providing they defeat whoever might stand in for the Baroness as well, can turn around and claim their right to challenge.
While I admire and respect the Baroness for other reasons I have stated before, I do approve of the fact that she has done what she can to further improve her record. I still do disapprove and still do beleive she should be Test by normal means for her challenging when her record was below 15 WoLs rather then waiting for her record to get to a more acceptable level, IMHO.
~Ecore
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:28:33 EDT
Before I post further I want one question answered for me:
Did Overlord Dex make a proposal to the Baroness Jaycynda to take a challenge from a Warlord before proceeding with her challenge to the Overlord?
If that was the case, then I am ashamed for having offered my blade to the Overlord to Test the Baroness in her challenge. Everyone knows how I feel about Tests of Worthiness, but for once I felt the need to see a challenger tested.
If the Overlord did indeed make that proposal in the reasoning that she needed to be tested, that is why the Test of Worthiness was created. If the challenger succeeds in the test, or someone champions them, then they can go on to face the defender further unimpeded.
By Dex's proposal if I am understanding, or rather assuming correctly, which may not be the case, Then Jayc could take a challenge from a Warlord, defend, then challenge again to Overlord and still face another Test of Worthiness.
I offer a simpler alternative based on precedent done before. Someone challenged for Overlord as a Baron, the Overlord chose a Warlord champion, the Warlord champion had 10 peer wins. The Warlord challenged the Baron once was it announced the Warlord was the Overlord's Champion pubically for a Test of Worthiness, and so the Test became the Baron's ring defense as well. It turned out I beleive the challenger lost the test and the Baron's ring was
immediately turned over to the Warlord's Champion.
The normal way to do this as well, is to be a Warlord Champion for the Overlord, and if you defeat the challenging Baron then you have the immediate right, which superceeds all other challenges, to turn around without the need of peer wins to challenge the Baron for their title.
That was the offer and idea I had brought to the Overlord if he chose my blade as the one to preform the Test of Worthiness upon the Baroness. The Baroness Jaycynda has already proved herself in being able to defend her Baron title. The issue here is if she is worthy to attain the crown, and what if any obstacles should be put in place to her trying to attain the crown.
Do not get me wrong, I still believe the Baroness should face a Test of Worthiness. This goes beyond that to political manuevering as the Baroness so aptly pointed out by the Overlord's offer. I recommend an alternative.
The Overlord should chose a Warlord champion with 10 peer wins, announce that they are the Champion for the Test of Worthiness, and let them challenge the Baroness. The Test of Worthiness duel would be that and the Baroness's defense of her ring. Or the simpler way where a Warlord Champion if they defeat the baroness, providing they defeat whoever might stand in for the Baroness as well, can turn around and claim their right to challenge.
While I admire and respect the Baroness for other reasons I have stated before, I do approve of the fact that she has done what she can to further improve her record. I still do disapprove and still do beleive she should be Test by normal means for her challenging when her record was below 15 WoLs rather then waiting for her record to get to a more acceptable level, IMHO.
~Ecore
Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:28:33 EDT
Before I post further I want one question answered for me:
Did Overlord Dex make a proposal to the Baroness Jaycynda to take a challenge from a Warlord before proceeding with her challenge to the Overlord?
If that was the case, then I am ashamed for having offered my blade to the Overlord to Test the Baroness in her challenge. Everyone knows how I feel about Tests of Worthiness, but for once I felt the need to see a challenger tested.
If the Overlord did indeed make that proposal in the reasoning that she needed to be tested, that is why the Test of Worthiness was created. If the challenger succeeds in the test, or someone champions them, then they can go on to face the defender further unimpeded.
By Dex's proposal if I am understanding, or rather assuming correctly, which may not be the case, Then Jayc could take a challenge from a Warlord, defend, then challenge again to Overlord and still face another Test of Worthiness.
I offer a simpler alternative based on precedent done before. Someone challenged for Overlord as a Baron, the Overlord chose a Warlord champion, the Warlord champion had 10 peer wins. The Warlord challenged the Baron once was it announced the Warlord was the Overlord's Champion pubically for a Test of Worthiness, and so the Test became the Baron's ring defense as well. It turned out I beleive the challenger lost the test and the Baron's ring was
immediately turned over to the Warlord's Champion.
The normal way to do this as well, is to be a Warlord Champion for the Overlord, and if you defeat the challenging Baron then you have the immediate right, which superceeds all other challenges, to turn around without the need of peer wins to challenge the Baron for their title.
That was the offer and idea I had brought to the Overlord if he chose my blade as the one to preform the Test of Worthiness upon the Baroness. The Baroness Jaycynda has already proved herself in being able to defend her Baron title. The issue here is if she is worthy to attain the crown, and what if any obstacles should be put in place to her trying to attain the crown.
Do not get me wrong, I still believe the Baroness should face a Test of Worthiness. This goes beyond that to political manuevering as the Baroness so aptly pointed out by the Overlord's offer. I recommend an alternative.
The Overlord should chose a Warlord champion with 10 peer wins, announce that they are the Champion for the Test of Worthiness, and let them challenge the Baroness. The Test of Worthiness duel would be that and the Baroness's defense of her ring. Or the simpler way where a Warlord Champion if they defeat the baroness, providing they defeat whoever might stand in for the Baroness as well, can turn around and claim their right to challenge.
While I admire and respect the Baroness for other reasons I have stated before, I do approve of the fact that she has done what she can to further improve her record. I still do disapprove and still do beleive she should be Test by normal means for her challenging when her record was below 15 WoLs rather then waiting for her record to get to a more acceptable level, IMHO.
~Ecore
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From: alyxz@aol.com (Alyxz)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:46:52 EDT
Using magic in a swords duel is cheating.
With all due respect to my friends here, just because Cygnet is a basket case doesn't excuse Jonalyn from using an unfair advantage. If someone here wants to use magic against one of my team mates in a duel, best add a good enough shield spell to stop a bullet.
~A
Ps: Will someone teach Jona to read? My eyes aren't what they used to be and I can't quite make out most of gibberish anymore. Maybe Coron can lend her his secretary?
Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:46:52 EDT
Using magic in a swords duel is cheating.
With all due respect to my friends here, just because Cygnet is a basket case doesn't excuse Jonalyn from using an unfair advantage. If someone here wants to use magic against one of my team mates in a duel, best add a good enough shield spell to stop a bullet.
~A
Ps: Will someone teach Jona to read? My eyes aren't what they used to be and I can't quite make out most of gibberish anymore. Maybe Coron can lend her his secretary?
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 28 Apr 1999 03:37:57 EDT
Jeff.
Re: Fact Two: Very rarely do I "attack" anyone. I have defended myself from attacks... and, after having had to defend myself from countless attacks from Lady Starfare, yes, I felt I shouldn't've had to give in to her demands.
Cygnet had no problem with dueling against Jonalyn. Until she was insulted, both by the method Lady Starfare was "dueling" and by a comment Lady Starfare made during the duel, Cygnet dueled with poise and Honor. It wasn't until the insults in tone and manner became past her point of bearing that Cygnet "threw" the match.
Re: Fact Four: Yes, I was indeed the only substitute available. Karye was unable to duel that week, I don't use free agents unless there's an emergency, and given the lineup already made, I didn't want Kira dueling Jonalyn. This, of course, is the logic of a Team Captain. I make the pairings as advantageous to my team as I can... I'm sure you do the same.
Re: Fact Five: I only made mention of the scheduling situation because, by TDL rules, that's the situation where a substitute dueler is allowed. Does that make it clearer?
Re: Fact Seven: Every one of the people you mention actually engages in combat. While it would be very easy for me to summon an Earth Elemental and send it into the ring to duel for me... giving it mental commands on how to attack and defend... I would never do such. For this is personal combat.
Really Jeff, I tire of the debate about weapons... I've never said people should only use swords.
Re: Fact Nine: If I were insulting people... or applying colorful epithets like "old dirty-wings", then my bias would be half as obvious as that of Ms. Rexx.
Everyone in existance has some level of bias on everything that happens. That is the nature of life itself. Yes, I am biased... but I deal with my biases with logic and restraint, not with blatant insults and warping of the truth.
Re: Closing Statements: I did not use Cygnet as my, or anyone's model of excellence. I'm sure that many people can say things about most anyone. All I can report on is what I have observed with my own two eyes. If I do otherwise, then I would have to attempt to reconcile my own bias with the bias of whoever is telling me the story.
Yes, I know Lady Starfare is a mother and a queen... and a regent of another land, I believe. I am fairly certain that her children are cared for by her husband while she's in the Arena, and I am also fairly certain that, given that the kingdoms she presides over are in this Realm, there's little for a Queen and Regent to do late at night... in an official capacity, that is.
I don't share those luxuries... My Adesseo Fortunea is often away. Many people have seen me bring one or both of my daughters to the Arena with me when I work. My Duchy is in a Realm far different from this one... and, try as I might, I can only delgate so much to the councilors.
Yes, I'm not on the best of terms with Jonalyn... I've tried many times for a diplomatic solution, and been rebuffed every time. For many months, the problems were only on her side of the fence, not mine... but, after all those months of constant insults and derisions, how can I possibly look at Lady Starfare with a less than biased eye?
I have only stated the facts of the matter... I had hoped that I would never need to speak on this matter again. I had asked that the matter be sealed, and that all parties involved never bring it up again...
Until this day, that was true. The matter had been dealt with and closed. It was not I, nor Cygnet, nor Jonalyn, nor Brigath who brought the matter out... and for that, I am glad.
But I will never stand by while someone I consider a friend is slandered... especially when I know the truth.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 28 Apr 1999 03:37:57 EDT
Jeff.
Re: Fact Two: Very rarely do I "attack" anyone. I have defended myself from attacks... and, after having had to defend myself from countless attacks from Lady Starfare, yes, I felt I shouldn't've had to give in to her demands.
Cygnet had no problem with dueling against Jonalyn. Until she was insulted, both by the method Lady Starfare was "dueling" and by a comment Lady Starfare made during the duel, Cygnet dueled with poise and Honor. It wasn't until the insults in tone and manner became past her point of bearing that Cygnet "threw" the match.
Re: Fact Four: Yes, I was indeed the only substitute available. Karye was unable to duel that week, I don't use free agents unless there's an emergency, and given the lineup already made, I didn't want Kira dueling Jonalyn. This, of course, is the logic of a Team Captain. I make the pairings as advantageous to my team as I can... I'm sure you do the same.
Re: Fact Five: I only made mention of the scheduling situation because, by TDL rules, that's the situation where a substitute dueler is allowed. Does that make it clearer?
Re: Fact Seven: Every one of the people you mention actually engages in combat. While it would be very easy for me to summon an Earth Elemental and send it into the ring to duel for me... giving it mental commands on how to attack and defend... I would never do such. For this is personal combat.
Really Jeff, I tire of the debate about weapons... I've never said people should only use swords.
Re: Fact Nine: If I were insulting people... or applying colorful epithets like "old dirty-wings", then my bias would be half as obvious as that of Ms. Rexx.
Everyone in existance has some level of bias on everything that happens. That is the nature of life itself. Yes, I am biased... but I deal with my biases with logic and restraint, not with blatant insults and warping of the truth.
Re: Closing Statements: I did not use Cygnet as my, or anyone's model of excellence. I'm sure that many people can say things about most anyone. All I can report on is what I have observed with my own two eyes. If I do otherwise, then I would have to attempt to reconcile my own bias with the bias of whoever is telling me the story.
Yes, I know Lady Starfare is a mother and a queen... and a regent of another land, I believe. I am fairly certain that her children are cared for by her husband while she's in the Arena, and I am also fairly certain that, given that the kingdoms she presides over are in this Realm, there's little for a Queen and Regent to do late at night... in an official capacity, that is.
I don't share those luxuries... My Adesseo Fortunea is often away. Many people have seen me bring one or both of my daughters to the Arena with me when I work. My Duchy is in a Realm far different from this one... and, try as I might, I can only delgate so much to the councilors.
Yes, I'm not on the best of terms with Jonalyn... I've tried many times for a diplomatic solution, and been rebuffed every time. For many months, the problems were only on her side of the fence, not mine... but, after all those months of constant insults and derisions, how can I possibly look at Lady Starfare with a less than biased eye?
I have only stated the facts of the matter... I had hoped that I would never need to speak on this matter again. I had asked that the matter be sealed, and that all parties involved never bring it up again...
Until this day, that was true. The matter had been dealt with and closed. It was not I, nor Cygnet, nor Jonalyn, nor Brigath who brought the matter out... and for that, I am glad.
But I will never stand by while someone I consider a friend is slandered... especially when I know the truth.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.