From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 12:41:41 EDT
Swords Coordinator,
Recently, Drake posted about the possibility that I should still have a right to challenge despite my invalid challenge and loss of peer wins. And she said she was going to ask you about it. Well, I wish to put the issue to rest now. Don't give it to me. Don't give it anyone who makes an invalid/improper/illegal challenge. A dueler if they make an invalid/improper/illegal challenge regardless of the circumstances and individuals involved
should always immediately have their challenge voided, their peer wins stripped, and their right to challenge for the remainder of the cycle taken from them. Regardless of how much or at what point of the challenge has happened or is happening. I don't mind losing the rights, it's only a couple months anyway.
While the Senior Baron likes to take joy in the fact my challenge was nothing more then a practice match called by an official RDI caller and nothing more. To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I would be Baron now. Mistakes do happen, this one was done by the officials by not catching it and me sending an
invalid challenge. However, the blade still proves worth in the ring more then words outside of it or spouting rules. When it came down to it that match was considered legal and valid at the time and fought as if the future of the Seventh depended on it.
While my actions as a challenger were pour, I find it in extremely poor and disgraceful taste that the Baron's Council would hand a ring back over to someone who technically lost it, though retroactively they decided it never happen. When this place becomes a place of judgments and politics to decide issues of titles and not the blade as the deciding factor, you disgrace the titles and demean their worth. What worth is there in something that
just gets tossed around and issues swept under the carpet as if never happening? Convient yes, right, no.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
Issue of Dueler's Rights
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 13:40:07 EDT
If I remember correctly, it was Cletus who originally brought up the question of the invalid peer win.
This condemnation of those who chose to research the issue for themselves to find out the truth is beneath you.
Over and over, after you separate yourself from what happened to you personally and look at this objectively, you claim to agree with the punishment for serving invalid challenge and you know as well as everyone else that peer wins cannot be kept after change in status. Why then is it so hard for you to acknowledge that perhaps other people you just so happen not to like can also ignore the personalities in order to be objective in this matter?
The world does not revolve around you, Elijah. You seem to want to play the persecuted martyr as if the only reason why you did not get to keep the ring is because someone did not happen to like you. As if the matter of the invalid peer win or your retirement were just minor little annoyances that obviously anyone who was objective would ignore because, afterall, you did beat Daelin in a duel. Did it ever occur to you that people do not like
to see challenges improperly served and fought PERIOD no matter who it is?
You cannot really bring up someone's popularity among the masses (or the current council) as a viable gauge of their ability to bend the rules successfully. In the matter almost identical as yours, the council was not consulted in the matter of Jaycynda's illegal garnering of the ring. The fact of that matter was that Helix disregarded all the pertinent rules to allow Jaycynda's challenge to go through. Arguably, Jaycynda is a "popular"
personality in this sport. I do not think, however, had the matter gone to council, she would have been allowed to keep the title. Societies, in general, frown upon those who break reasonable rules to get ahead.
I think the community and the council should be able to investigate any current baron's activities that led to their gaining the title, no matter how long they have held the title, as long as the rule was in effect when they pursued the title. Unfortunately, the council cannot act without the Supervisor handing the matter over to them to review.
Perhaps if people feel strongly enough about this, they could petition Golden to submit the matter of Jaycynda's illegal challenge to the council to rule on.
If the council ruled to allow Jaycynda to keep her title, perhaps then you might have a stronger (not airtight) case for prejudice against you, personally. This is assuming the members of the two councils would be peopled by a majority of the same barons that convened in your case.
Going back to your purported detractors you cry out against, this much can be said for certain: Jonalyn was/is just as vehement, if not more, concerning the issue of Jaycynda's title. How interesting it is that you and she would be arguing the same side, had it not been you who submitted improper challenge (no matter how unaware that you had done so).
Date: 29 Jun 1999 13:40:07 EDT
If I remember correctly, it was Cletus who originally brought up the question of the invalid peer win.
This condemnation of those who chose to research the issue for themselves to find out the truth is beneath you.
Over and over, after you separate yourself from what happened to you personally and look at this objectively, you claim to agree with the punishment for serving invalid challenge and you know as well as everyone else that peer wins cannot be kept after change in status. Why then is it so hard for you to acknowledge that perhaps other people you just so happen not to like can also ignore the personalities in order to be objective in this matter?
The world does not revolve around you, Elijah. You seem to want to play the persecuted martyr as if the only reason why you did not get to keep the ring is because someone did not happen to like you. As if the matter of the invalid peer win or your retirement were just minor little annoyances that obviously anyone who was objective would ignore because, afterall, you did beat Daelin in a duel. Did it ever occur to you that people do not like
to see challenges improperly served and fought PERIOD no matter who it is?
You cannot really bring up someone's popularity among the masses (or the current council) as a viable gauge of their ability to bend the rules successfully. In the matter almost identical as yours, the council was not consulted in the matter of Jaycynda's illegal garnering of the ring. The fact of that matter was that Helix disregarded all the pertinent rules to allow Jaycynda's challenge to go through. Arguably, Jaycynda is a "popular"
personality in this sport. I do not think, however, had the matter gone to council, she would have been allowed to keep the title. Societies, in general, frown upon those who break reasonable rules to get ahead.
I think the community and the council should be able to investigate any current baron's activities that led to their gaining the title, no matter how long they have held the title, as long as the rule was in effect when they pursued the title. Unfortunately, the council cannot act without the Supervisor handing the matter over to them to review.
Perhaps if people feel strongly enough about this, they could petition Golden to submit the matter of Jaycynda's illegal challenge to the council to rule on.
If the council ruled to allow Jaycynda to keep her title, perhaps then you might have a stronger (not airtight) case for prejudice against you, personally. This is assuming the members of the two councils would be peopled by a majority of the same barons that convened in your case.
Going back to your purported detractors you cry out against, this much can be said for certain: Jonalyn was/is just as vehement, if not more, concerning the issue of Jaycynda's title. How interesting it is that you and she would be arguing the same side, had it not been you who submitted improper challenge (no matter how unaware that you had done so).
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 14:44:58 EDT
Morgan,
Frankly what you said about me is a load of crap. My posts are not about me or to make people feel sorry for me. I really don't give a damn at this point. However, I was voicing my opinion using my own mistake as an example especially since its the most recent occurance of this issue. I am not complaining, nor whining, nor critizing about me losing my right to challenge, my peer wins, and the title, for I know I deserve it. Cletus did mention
it first on the boards, but it was Jonalyn who approached me privately way before hand drilling me about the issue. I don't care about martyrdom or whatever, because frankly there is no one left in the duels who's respect I care about. I was accused of trying to impress my mentor and others of the old school days which I wouldn't necessarily deny subconciously, but of today's dueler I see none who's respect would matter to me. It doesn't mean I
don't like alot of the duelers or consider them comrades I just don't care about that aspect. I have my own private agenda of stuff I want to accomplish in my career, and I am gonna do it regardless of what happens or what anyone says. Its selfish, but oh well, since I really don't have any comrades within the duels anymore, everyone is my rival and everyone is a potential target. The war is on.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
Date: 29 Jun 1999 14:44:58 EDT
Morgan,
Frankly what you said about me is a load of crap. My posts are not about me or to make people feel sorry for me. I really don't give a damn at this point. However, I was voicing my opinion using my own mistake as an example especially since its the most recent occurance of this issue. I am not complaining, nor whining, nor critizing about me losing my right to challenge, my peer wins, and the title, for I know I deserve it. Cletus did mention
it first on the boards, but it was Jonalyn who approached me privately way before hand drilling me about the issue. I don't care about martyrdom or whatever, because frankly there is no one left in the duels who's respect I care about. I was accused of trying to impress my mentor and others of the old school days which I wouldn't necessarily deny subconciously, but of today's dueler I see none who's respect would matter to me. It doesn't mean I
don't like alot of the duelers or consider them comrades I just don't care about that aspect. I have my own private agenda of stuff I want to accomplish in my career, and I am gonna do it regardless of what happens or what anyone says. Its selfish, but oh well, since I really don't have any comrades within the duels anymore, everyone is my rival and everyone is a potential target. The war is on.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
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From: alainshanr@aol.com (AlainShanr)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 14:45:40 EDT
"To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I would be Baron now."
In other words: "If nobody'd investigated, I'd have gotten away with it!"
How pathetic. As one who has so strenuously argued for the following of rules, one would think that you would be GLAD that your mistake was caught, for the good of the sport you claim to have such love for. But, no; as your history here indicates, it's all about YOU.
Please, do the sentient portion of this community the favor of growing up. You're not a Baron now because You Screwed Up, not because Jonalyn stood up and said the exact same thing she has said every other time a challenger issued improperly.
Date: 29 Jun 1999 14:45:40 EDT
"To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I would be Baron now."
In other words: "If nobody'd investigated, I'd have gotten away with it!"
How pathetic. As one who has so strenuously argued for the following of rules, one would think that you would be GLAD that your mistake was caught, for the good of the sport you claim to have such love for. But, no; as your history here indicates, it's all about YOU.
Please, do the sentient portion of this community the favor of growing up. You're not a Baron now because You Screwed Up, not because Jonalyn stood up and said the exact same thing she has said every other time a challenger issued improperly.
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From: simini@aol.com (Simini)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 15:03:18 EDT
Though the notes themselves were mere slivers of parchment, each one added significantly to the weight already upon her shoulders. Her thin copper eyebrows reached for each other deeply as she turned away from the cork.
"A premonitory time, indeed," she thought. "It seems there are too many auguries to ignore lately."
She took the steps silently, and went to the Factory to practice with Lupton.
Tonight, she would know.
Date: 29 Jun 1999 15:03:18 EDT
Though the notes themselves were mere slivers of parchment, each one added significantly to the weight already upon her shoulders. Her thin copper eyebrows reached for each other deeply as she turned away from the cork.
"A premonitory time, indeed," she thought. "It seems there are too many auguries to ignore lately."
She took the steps silently, and went to the Factory to practice with Lupton.
Tonight, she would know.
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From: morganfay@aol.com (MorganFay)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 16:02:54 EDT
"Frankly what you said about me is a load of crap. My posts are not about me or to make people feel sorry for me. I really don't give a damn at this point. However, I was voicing my opinion using my own mistake as an example especially since its the most recent occurance of this issue. I am not complaining, nor whining, nor
critizing about me losing my right to challenge, my peer wins, and the title, for I know I deserve it."
Oh, really? Shall we take a trip down memory lane to jog your memory? I point you to these selected passages, written by you:
15 days ago (said only after Jonalyn made her inquiry)(all bold emphasis mine): I knew this would happen, that if I decided to challenge and made Baron that the witch hunt would begin to discredit me.
14 days ago: Why is everyone trying to ruin my momemt simply because I won and I cut it close, though legally, in making my challenge? If you want to debate the merits of challenges and legalities please do it in a different set of posts. The Seventh was won by my hand legally and without taint regardless of what others may say. Your bickering about technicalities that were never violated and
whining about the ability of the staff and other duelers abilities
to follows the rules is taking away from the moment of history and of pagentry of Swords, and of my own personal caree
<snip>
If you seriously got that much of a problem of me being Baron take care of it the old fashioned way.
11 days ago: My Denials while in some people's view may seem untrue or a lie, are the trueth as I know the facts being a participant. While some people's Accusations, a.k.a Jonalyn, are based off their feelings for me and how they can manipulate what they think they know into a lobbying point for the populace to rally against me, is something everyone should keep in mind.
later that same day: I find fault in the motivations and accuasations of another using this event as a catalyst for their own personal agendas against me
Six days ago: I was afraid my title would be stripped from me simply because there are individuals on this council, namely Jeff and Lupton, for example who would love to see me stripped of the title regardless of the circumstances. I find fault in RDI Golden's findings, simply because I know I saw the proper standings to validate my peer wins. The issue would have never came up if some
spineless manipulative and vindictive wench who sits at the bar and doesn't
participate as a dueler in this sport, a.k.a Jonalyn, didn't have it in for me and looks for every opportunity to ruin my involvement here. She has involved herself in which she has no voice in active dueler matters if she is not willing to walk the path we have all taken to become title holding leaders of this sport.
Later: I am for the rules, however, the rules have been violated for so long and ignored that finally when I do it the Council decides now is the time to set new precdent and stand up and say enough.
Three days ago: Funny, how when I challenge the Standings aren't up till late Thursday, yet when I retire they are up late Monday night/early Tuesday morning.
Today, in response to Jeff, alluding to his earlier charge that Jeff "would love to see [Elijah] stripped of the title regardless of the circumstances": You had your fun, you did your part, and have a nice day.
Today: It's amazing how quick one is to go digging quotes out of the rule book moments after someone brings up a potential in favor of me.
Today (despite saying earlier that he would respect Jeff's ruling no matter what because he was senior baron): While the Senior Baron likes to take joy in the fact my challenge was nothing more then a practice match called by an official RDI caller and nothing more. To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I
would be Baron now.
---------------------------------------------------
Here it is one more time, Elijah. The fact that you are not a baron now can be placed upon one person's shoulders, and one person's only: YOURS. It is not some evil plot Jeff, Lupton, and Jonalyn cooked up; it is not some nefarious action that synchronizes when the standings get posted so as to put you, and only you, at the greatest disadvantage known to this sport. The council does not pick and choose which matters they will rule on, and they
certainly did not have a personal agenda against you.
For over two weeks we have had to read post after post from you crying out that this person has something against you, that person wants vengeance, the other person only wants to humiliate you, and that group of people over there hates you, it must be a witchhunt orchestrated as soon as you came back or this would have never happened. But, oh, you can rise above all that, and take the ruling without saying another word (uh-huh), as long as
something good comes out of it and, by god, no one better get away with it again or else!
As I said earlier, and Alain said so much better (emphasis, again, mine): "Please, do the sentient portion of this community the favor of growing up. You're not a Baron now because You Screwed Up, not because Jonalyn stood up and said the exact same thing she has said every other time a challenger issued improperly.FACE="Arial" LANG="0">"
Come out of your memememe stage and look around you. How can you seriously say that the only reason why the invalidity was pointed out was because of something as inane as someone not liking you? That is so selfish. Give the rest of the world a bit more credit for having better reasons to point discrepancies out. If you were not so self-centered, and had you caught up on all the posts here since your last departure, you would know how stupid you look
crying on and on like this and you would see that the only "load of crap" being shoveled around here is the junk coming froming you. Your tantrum is getting old.
Date: 29 Jun 1999 16:02:54 EDT
"Frankly what you said about me is a load of crap. My posts are not about me or to make people feel sorry for me. I really don't give a damn at this point. However, I was voicing my opinion using my own mistake as an example especially since its the most recent occurance of this issue. I am not complaining, nor whining, nor
critizing about me losing my right to challenge, my peer wins, and the title, for I know I deserve it."
Oh, really? Shall we take a trip down memory lane to jog your memory? I point you to these selected passages, written by you:
15 days ago (said only after Jonalyn made her inquiry)(all bold emphasis mine): I knew this would happen, that if I decided to challenge and made Baron that the witch hunt would begin to discredit me.
14 days ago: Why is everyone trying to ruin my momemt simply because I won and I cut it close, though legally, in making my challenge? If you want to debate the merits of challenges and legalities please do it in a different set of posts. The Seventh was won by my hand legally and without taint regardless of what others may say. Your bickering about technicalities that were never violated and
whining about the ability of the staff and other duelers abilities
to follows the rules is taking away from the moment of history and of pagentry of Swords, and of my own personal caree
<snip>
If you seriously got that much of a problem of me being Baron take care of it the old fashioned way.
11 days ago: My Denials while in some people's view may seem untrue or a lie, are the trueth as I know the facts being a participant. While some people's Accusations, a.k.a Jonalyn, are based off their feelings for me and how they can manipulate what they think they know into a lobbying point for the populace to rally against me, is something everyone should keep in mind.
later that same day: I find fault in the motivations and accuasations of another using this event as a catalyst for their own personal agendas against me
Six days ago: I was afraid my title would be stripped from me simply because there are individuals on this council, namely Jeff and Lupton, for example who would love to see me stripped of the title regardless of the circumstances. I find fault in RDI Golden's findings, simply because I know I saw the proper standings to validate my peer wins. The issue would have never came up if some
spineless manipulative and vindictive wench who sits at the bar and doesn't
participate as a dueler in this sport, a.k.a Jonalyn, didn't have it in for me and looks for every opportunity to ruin my involvement here. She has involved herself in which she has no voice in active dueler matters if she is not willing to walk the path we have all taken to become title holding leaders of this sport.
Later: I am for the rules, however, the rules have been violated for so long and ignored that finally when I do it the Council decides now is the time to set new precdent and stand up and say enough.
Three days ago: Funny, how when I challenge the Standings aren't up till late Thursday, yet when I retire they are up late Monday night/early Tuesday morning.
Today, in response to Jeff, alluding to his earlier charge that Jeff "would love to see [Elijah] stripped of the title regardless of the circumstances": You had your fun, you did your part, and have a nice day.
Today: It's amazing how quick one is to go digging quotes out of the rule book moments after someone brings up a potential in favor of me.
Today (despite saying earlier that he would respect Jeff's ruling no matter what because he was senior baron): While the Senior Baron likes to take joy in the fact my challenge was nothing more then a practice match called by an official RDI caller and nothing more. To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I
would be Baron now.
---------------------------------------------------
Here it is one more time, Elijah. The fact that you are not a baron now can be placed upon one person's shoulders, and one person's only: YOURS. It is not some evil plot Jeff, Lupton, and Jonalyn cooked up; it is not some nefarious action that synchronizes when the standings get posted so as to put you, and only you, at the greatest disadvantage known to this sport. The council does not pick and choose which matters they will rule on, and they
certainly did not have a personal agenda against you.
For over two weeks we have had to read post after post from you crying out that this person has something against you, that person wants vengeance, the other person only wants to humiliate you, and that group of people over there hates you, it must be a witchhunt orchestrated as soon as you came back or this would have never happened. But, oh, you can rise above all that, and take the ruling without saying another word (uh-huh), as long as
something good comes out of it and, by god, no one better get away with it again or else!
As I said earlier, and Alain said so much better (emphasis, again, mine): "Please, do the sentient portion of this community the favor of growing up. You're not a Baron now because You Screwed Up, not because Jonalyn stood up and said the exact same thing she has said every other time a challenger issued improperly.FACE="Arial" LANG="0">"
Come out of your memememe stage and look around you. How can you seriously say that the only reason why the invalidity was pointed out was because of something as inane as someone not liking you? That is so selfish. Give the rest of the world a bit more credit for having better reasons to point discrepancies out. If you were not so self-centered, and had you caught up on all the posts here since your last departure, you would know how stupid you look
crying on and on like this and you would see that the only "load of crap" being shoveled around here is the junk coming froming you. Your tantrum is getting old.
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From: eagleecore@aol.com (EagleEcore)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 16:53:28 EDT
Fine, whatever, you all can think what you want, cause I give up. While you may think I being self-centered, whining, or crying out about attention to me, I simply was trying to illustrate a point about an issue that reoccurs in the rings and the community. But you know, screw you all and go to hell. I'll be in the ring soon to start beating some arses around, a couple months doesn't bother me. The storm is
coming.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
Date: 29 Jun 1999 16:53:28 EDT
Fine, whatever, you all can think what you want, cause I give up. While you may think I being self-centered, whining, or crying out about attention to me, I simply was trying to illustrate a point about an issue that reoccurs in the rings and the community. But you know, screw you all and go to hell. I'll be in the ring soon to start beating some arses around, a couple months doesn't bother me. The storm is
coming.
~Ecore~
~Praetor of the Dragon Templar~
~Thrice Baron of Swords, 2nd Highest WoLs Warlord of Swords~
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:43:49 EDT
Ecore,
Before, I was rather disappointed by your previous words, but now, they are completely childish in what seemed to be a humble letter in the start.
You wrote, "While the Senior Baron likes to take joy in the fact my challenge was nothing more then a practice match called by an official RDI caller and nothing more." To me, I agree that it was nothing more than a practice match. You fought, thinking that the seventh was on the line, but everyone else thought you had the proper peer wins
issued to fight for said ring. We all thought wrong. The difference between us, who thought you issued proper challenge, and you, who thought you'd be getting the ring, is the fact that we had nothing to lose by our reasonable thinking. You, on the other hand, lost the ring, right to challenge, and some dignity along the way.
You later wrote, "To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I would be Baron now." To my knowledge, Cletus was the one who originally brought up the fact that the standings weren't posted yet. To my knowledge,
and I am sure you can ask Magnus, who is Cletus' brother, but Cletus is far from a wench. I don't know if he knows you, either, he's one person who is guided by principles, however, thus he isn't malicious, vindictive, or backstabbing.
I'll make one more quote before I finalize this:
While my actions as a challenger were pour, I find it in extremely poor and disgraceful taste that the Baron's Council would hand a ring back over to someone who technically lost it, though retroactively they decided it never happen.
Technically, by the rules if a challenge is considered invalid, then any duel fought for the ring is invalid. Golden ruled the challenge invalid. You simply mixed up the words; technically it never happened, retroactively, he lost the match, when you both thought the ring was on the line.
I am filled with sheer disgust when I read these words. You ignore the fact that you have issued invalid peer wins. Valid peer wins are a basis for proper challenges of the sport. You want to see this as a proper challenge, you should have issued proper peer wins.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud father, proud husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:43:49 EDT
Ecore,
Before, I was rather disappointed by your previous words, but now, they are completely childish in what seemed to be a humble letter in the start.
You wrote, "While the Senior Baron likes to take joy in the fact my challenge was nothing more then a practice match called by an official RDI caller and nothing more." To me, I agree that it was nothing more than a practice match. You fought, thinking that the seventh was on the line, but everyone else thought you had the proper peer wins
issued to fight for said ring. We all thought wrong. The difference between us, who thought you issued proper challenge, and you, who thought you'd be getting the ring, is the fact that we had nothing to lose by our reasonable thinking. You, on the other hand, lost the ring, right to challenge, and some dignity along the way.
You later wrote, "To me and Daelin it was more then that, because if some malicious vindictive back stabbing wench didn't go looking for trouble after she knew I had won the right to be Baron, I would be Baron now." To my knowledge, Cletus was the one who originally brought up the fact that the standings weren't posted yet. To my knowledge,
and I am sure you can ask Magnus, who is Cletus' brother, but Cletus is far from a wench. I don't know if he knows you, either, he's one person who is guided by principles, however, thus he isn't malicious, vindictive, or backstabbing.
I'll make one more quote before I finalize this:
While my actions as a challenger were pour, I find it in extremely poor and disgraceful taste that the Baron's Council would hand a ring back over to someone who technically lost it, though retroactively they decided it never happen.
Technically, by the rules if a challenge is considered invalid, then any duel fought for the ring is invalid. Golden ruled the challenge invalid. You simply mixed up the words; technically it never happened, retroactively, he lost the match, when you both thought the ring was on the line.
I am filled with sheer disgust when I read these words. You ignore the fact that you have issued invalid peer wins. Valid peer wins are a basis for proper challenges of the sport. You want to see this as a proper challenge, you should have issued proper peer wins.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud father, proud husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the Tenth
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From: siiktamara@aol.com (SiIkTamara)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:56:52 EDT
It has been some time since I have walked through these halls and although I did not make a mighty impression(i.e. no rank higher than a swordswoman) I did duel with the respect and honor I expect from others.
Ecore, I know, nor knew you and no doubt you will discount my words like sand slipping through your fingers, but even that will leave some impression. Your behaviour is deplorable and not worthy of the air you consume.
The rules are clearly written and you have clearly disregarded them, you whom would claim six years in this sport and yet do not know the simplest of the rules and rights of challenges.
When last I was here there was one named Guild God and many Warlords sought to boycott dueling him so that he would never hold a higher rank, I sincerely hope that others will engage in that behaviour with you so that you never hold enough peer wins to disgrace the rings again.
With the utmost sincerity,
Silk
Date: 29 Jun 1999 17:56:52 EDT
It has been some time since I have walked through these halls and although I did not make a mighty impression(i.e. no rank higher than a swordswoman) I did duel with the respect and honor I expect from others.
Ecore, I know, nor knew you and no doubt you will discount my words like sand slipping through your fingers, but even that will leave some impression. Your behaviour is deplorable and not worthy of the air you consume.
The rules are clearly written and you have clearly disregarded them, you whom would claim six years in this sport and yet do not know the simplest of the rules and rights of challenges.
When last I was here there was one named Guild God and many Warlords sought to boycott dueling him so that he would never hold a higher rank, I sincerely hope that others will engage in that behaviour with you so that you never hold enough peer wins to disgrace the rings again.
With the utmost sincerity,
Silk
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 18:33:14 EDT
>I am filled with sheer disgust when I read these words. You ignore the fact
>that you have issued invalid peer wins. Valid peer wins are a basis for
>proper challenges of the sport. You want to see this as a proper challenge,
>you should have issued proper peer wins.
Var,
Let us not forget the fact that Ecore earned his right to challenge with ten valid victories over peers, and that what has been discussed here is merely the time in which the warlord sent his notice compared to the time the week's standings had gone up -- a technicality that would have hurt no one had it not been brought up.
Deluthan
Date: 29 Jun 1999 18:33:14 EDT
>I am filled with sheer disgust when I read these words. You ignore the fact
>that you have issued invalid peer wins. Valid peer wins are a basis for
>proper challenges of the sport. You want to see this as a proper challenge,
>you should have issued proper peer wins.
Var,
Let us not forget the fact that Ecore earned his right to challenge with ten valid victories over peers, and that what has been discussed here is merely the time in which the warlord sent his notice compared to the time the week's standings had gone up -- a technicality that would have hurt no one had it not been brought up.
Deluthan
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From: alainshanr@aol.com (AlainShanr)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 19:46:58 EDT
"Let us not forget the fact that Ecore earned his right to challenge with ten valid victories over peers, and that what has been discussed here is merely the time in which the warlord sent his notice compared to the time the week's standings had gone up -- a technicality that would have hurt no one had it not been brought up."FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0">
The problem is that it's a serious technicality, which is there for a reason.
The rule regarding when one may officially deliver challenge is designed to give all possible challengers the fairest opportunity to do so. By jumping the gun, if not detected, those who follow the rules are penalized. As a result, the rule must be enforced, regardless of whether anyone was directly "hurt" in the particular instance.
This rule has been enforced on numerous occasions over the past couple of years, which is why these claims that people are "out to get him" are patently silly. The histories are peppered with references to challengers who have been stripped of their right to challenge because they couldn't be bothered to abide by the letter of the law - and, indeed, I seem to recall our poor aggrieved victim himself speaking out in favor of the very penalty he
himself received many moons ago when the first such incident occurred.
Date: 29 Jun 1999 19:46:58 EDT
"Let us not forget the fact that Ecore earned his right to challenge with ten valid victories over peers, and that what has been discussed here is merely the time in which the warlord sent his notice compared to the time the week's standings had gone up -- a technicality that would have hurt no one had it not been brought up."FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0">
The problem is that it's a serious technicality, which is there for a reason.
The rule regarding when one may officially deliver challenge is designed to give all possible challengers the fairest opportunity to do so. By jumping the gun, if not detected, those who follow the rules are penalized. As a result, the rule must be enforced, regardless of whether anyone was directly "hurt" in the particular instance.
This rule has been enforced on numerous occasions over the past couple of years, which is why these claims that people are "out to get him" are patently silly. The histories are peppered with references to challengers who have been stripped of their right to challenge because they couldn't be bothered to abide by the letter of the law - and, indeed, I seem to recall our poor aggrieved victim himself speaking out in favor of the very penalty he
himself received many moons ago when the first such incident occurred.
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From: valmion@aol.com (Valmion)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 20:25:38 EDT
Elijah, give this one up, you can't win and the hole is only getting deeper. What the fair Morgan Fay pointed out to you sir was the truth in your words, and your words alone. I have always been your friend sir and do not wish to lose your friendship over this issue, but even I tire of the rantings about your mistake.
Simply,
Valmion
Date: 29 Jun 1999 20:25:38 EDT
Elijah, give this one up, you can't win and the hole is only getting deeper. What the fair Morgan Fay pointed out to you sir was the truth in your words, and your words alone. I have always been your friend sir and do not wish to lose your friendship over this issue, but even I tire of the rantings about your mistake.
Simply,
Valmion
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 20:48:26 EDT
Gentles,
I offer thee the reminder, certes Sartan canst recall the incident, wherein the duel t'wixt himself and the then holder of the Third Ring, Darkness, wast set aside ast the matter of the challenge itself wast before the Council at that time. Though the circumstances of the warlord Ecore's challenge unto the Baron Daelin Dragonsblade differ in that the warlord Sartan didst issue proper challenge and t'was that the then Baron Darkness having failed to
respond to said challenge in a timely manner wherein the challenge wast sent unto the Council for adjudication, the precedent ist there wherein a duel hast been set aside.
The then Baron Darkness presumed to know the Council's mind and didst initiate the match during the deliberations of the Council. Yet the Baron Darkness stood forth and faced the decision of the Council. There aire likely yet some what recall that the baron Darkness wast nae among those what wouldst hae been termed 'popular', yet he dinna flee in the face of adversity. Ecore presumed to know the mind of the current Barons Council and didst by his
own choice retire rather than to stand forth and face the Council judgment.
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 29 Jun 1999 20:48:26 EDT
Gentles,
I offer thee the reminder, certes Sartan canst recall the incident, wherein the duel t'wixt himself and the then holder of the Third Ring, Darkness, wast set aside ast the matter of the challenge itself wast before the Council at that time. Though the circumstances of the warlord Ecore's challenge unto the Baron Daelin Dragonsblade differ in that the warlord Sartan didst issue proper challenge and t'was that the then Baron Darkness having failed to
respond to said challenge in a timely manner wherein the challenge wast sent unto the Council for adjudication, the precedent ist there wherein a duel hast been set aside.
The then Baron Darkness presumed to know the Council's mind and didst initiate the match during the deliberations of the Council. Yet the Baron Darkness stood forth and faced the decision of the Council. There aire likely yet some what recall that the baron Darkness wast nae among those what wouldst hae been termed 'popular', yet he dinna flee in the face of adversity. Ecore presumed to know the mind of the current Barons Council and didst by his
own choice retire rather than to stand forth and face the Council judgment.
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 20:58:59 EDT
Comrades in arms~
I have one small question for all of you to ponder if you wish.
Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would she pursue the matter with such vigor?
Still pondering that question myself,
~Sidartha Elgarette
Date: 29 Jun 1999 20:58:59 EDT
Comrades in arms~
I have one small question for all of you to ponder if you wish.
Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would she pursue the matter with such vigor?
Still pondering that question myself,
~Sidartha Elgarette
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From: maxim128@aol.com (Maxim128)
Date: 29 Jun 1999 21:11:28 EDT
>Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would
>she pursue the matter with such vigor?
Sid,
In response to your question, I am guessing not. However, most everyone has enemies, and if Jona would not persue the invalid challenge, an enemy of her friend most likely would.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris
Date: 29 Jun 1999 21:11:28 EDT
>Should the invalid challenge have been issued by a friend of Jonalyn's, would
>she pursue the matter with such vigor?
Sid,
In response to your question, I am guessing not. However, most everyone has enemies, and if Jona would not persue the invalid challenge, an enemy of her friend most likely would.
~Magnus~
Baron of the 13th
Guardian of Polaris