From: cyggnimoi@aol.com (Cyg Gnimoi)
Date: 06 Jul 1999 19:25:23 EDT
After pondering the issue of the Baron's Council voting on the fate of other duelists, a note is placed upon the cork.
Is it really wise to have the 13 Baron's take vote on the fate of others? I would suggest the matter of what is correct and incorrect be left up to the Officials to decide, Lord Evermeadow and whatever higher authority he must answer to.
In the matter of Baroness Jaycynda, has not the ruling been made past and final? What good is there now to bring this old deed before the 13 Barons? There was an official ruling made, and be it right or wrong, it is done and over. Make challenge to remove the Baroness should anyone find foulness in her title. But let it rest on the outcome by blade, not vote.
~CSG~
A question to the *BARONS*
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 06 Jul 1999 20:26:28 EDT
Finds she agrees with Billy wholeheartedly, as she peruses one of the delusional angel's less than enlightening note. She tacks a missive to the cork.
CSG
Considering thine own corrupt ways, tis nae anna surprise thee would hold with corruption, deceit, lies and deceptions. Perhaps it escaped thee that the question wasna set before the council. Be thee stating then that thee hold the Council and its members ast nae wise enow ta adjudicate the matter? Tis in that Madame Ashleana herself wast an official of these ancient halls when she, through her servant, didst seek a corruption of the rules of
engagement on her behalf and such corruption wast permitted by another official in the personage of Madame Helix Girvin shouldst bring one to ponder that the officials, in certain glaring instances, canna be held to be incorruptible.
Tis for anna community to be viable it must have utmost faith in the incorruptibilty of the officials. When such glaring instances as this perfidy come to light tis it behooves the officials to banish the perception that each member of the community isna equal in the process of gaining either rank or title. To turn a phrase, "What be good for the gander, be ast well good for the goose."
Wouldst thee then hae it that that "Might makes Right"? Wouldst thee set aside all that dost present e'en a modicum of honor and truth? Thee perhaps would hae it that these ancient halls should fall into such depravity. Fie, such depravity and corruption hae nae place in these halls of honor nor dost anna official what be found to foster such corruption and hold that it be right and proper to foster such. The question wast left ta the Officials
in the matter of the challenge of Ecore unto the Baron Daelin and the question went a'begging until t'was questioned by members of this community. Master Evermeadow right and properly set that question unto the Council. The future ist built upon the tapestry of the past. Where the weave ist snarled it behooves the weaver to straighten the cloth, lest the future become ast well a corruption.
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 06 Jul 1999 20:26:28 EDT
Finds she agrees with Billy wholeheartedly, as she peruses one of the delusional angel's less than enlightening note. She tacks a missive to the cork.
CSG
Considering thine own corrupt ways, tis nae anna surprise thee would hold with corruption, deceit, lies and deceptions. Perhaps it escaped thee that the question wasna set before the council. Be thee stating then that thee hold the Council and its members ast nae wise enow ta adjudicate the matter? Tis in that Madame Ashleana herself wast an official of these ancient halls when she, through her servant, didst seek a corruption of the rules of
engagement on her behalf and such corruption wast permitted by another official in the personage of Madame Helix Girvin shouldst bring one to ponder that the officials, in certain glaring instances, canna be held to be incorruptible.
Tis for anna community to be viable it must have utmost faith in the incorruptibilty of the officials. When such glaring instances as this perfidy come to light tis it behooves the officials to banish the perception that each member of the community isna equal in the process of gaining either rank or title. To turn a phrase, "What be good for the gander, be ast well good for the goose."
Wouldst thee then hae it that that "Might makes Right"? Wouldst thee set aside all that dost present e'en a modicum of honor and truth? Thee perhaps would hae it that these ancient halls should fall into such depravity. Fie, such depravity and corruption hae nae place in these halls of honor nor dost anna official what be found to foster such corruption and hold that it be right and proper to foster such. The question wast left ta the Officials
in the matter of the challenge of Ecore unto the Baron Daelin and the question went a'begging until t'was questioned by members of this community. Master Evermeadow right and properly set that question unto the Council. The future ist built upon the tapestry of the past. Where the weave ist snarled it behooves the weaver to straighten the cloth, lest the future become ast well a corruption.
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 06 Jul 1999 20:52:53 EDT
What's the problem with barons voting on behalf of the community? Do you question the integrity of one baron, or more than one baron? You say to go ahead and challenge Jaycy if you have a problem with her holding the ring, and you can just as easily challenge a baron if you have a problem with them voting "for one's fate."
You tell us that it's wrong to remove the right of baroness from Jaycy because the decision's already been made. Now you're saying to remove every baron the right to represent the community when it's already been established over the years to be done?
Please tell us why we should abide by Helix's ruling, when your words seem to be saying we should eradicate a rule years old, where the baron's council has been allowed to "determine the fate of another."
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 06 Jul 1999 20:52:53 EDT
What's the problem with barons voting on behalf of the community? Do you question the integrity of one baron, or more than one baron? You say to go ahead and challenge Jaycy if you have a problem with her holding the ring, and you can just as easily challenge a baron if you have a problem with them voting "for one's fate."
You tell us that it's wrong to remove the right of baroness from Jaycy because the decision's already been made. Now you're saying to remove every baron the right to represent the community when it's already been established over the years to be done?
Please tell us why we should abide by Helix's ruling, when your words seem to be saying we should eradicate a rule years old, where the baron's council has been allowed to "determine the fate of another."
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: agrenish@aol.com (Agrenish)
Date: 06 Jul 1999 22:56:35 EDT
>>> Instead you have people like Jaycynda who are Baroness, and people like SilentCris who became Overlord, who's skill on average is below par for a "Warlord" class dueler.<<
>>Then you have people like Elijah who come back every few months, bragging about the old days, or how many WoL they have, or how many times they have challenged/won a challenge only to leave in a fit of rage and pique because they got their feelings hurt. <<
>>Then you find people like Morgan, that haven't been kissed like they should be, in a long time.<<
>>Then ye find people like Methous wi' delusions 'o godhood and bein' granted Rhydin ast a protectorate. Be thee beggin' ta be part 'o th' Lady Morgana's 'arem?<<
And then you have people like me who are substantially geometrically perfect, in the four dimensions of the world... Agrenish Preescott.
Wipe away that tear, I ain't unreachable, y'know?
Agrenish Preescott
~It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him~
Date: 06 Jul 1999 22:56:35 EDT
>>> Instead you have people like Jaycynda who are Baroness, and people like SilentCris who became Overlord, who's skill on average is below par for a "Warlord" class dueler.<<
>>Then you have people like Elijah who come back every few months, bragging about the old days, or how many WoL they have, or how many times they have challenged/won a challenge only to leave in a fit of rage and pique because they got their feelings hurt. <<
>>Then you find people like Morgan, that haven't been kissed like they should be, in a long time.<<
>>Then ye find people like Methous wi' delusions 'o godhood and bein' granted Rhydin ast a protectorate. Be thee beggin' ta be part 'o th' Lady Morgana's 'arem?<<
And then you have people like me who are substantially geometrically perfect, in the four dimensions of the world... Agrenish Preescott.
Wipe away that tear, I ain't unreachable, y'know?
Agrenish Preescott
~It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him~
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From: methous45@aol.com (Methous45)
Date: 06 Jul 1999 23:12:49 EDT
> What's the problem with barons voting on behalf of the community? Do you
>question the integrity of one baron, or more than one baron? You say to go
>ahead and challenge Jaycy if you have a problem with her holding the ring,
>and you can just as easily challenge a baron if you have a problem with them
>voting "for one's fate."
>
> You tell us that it's wrong to remove the right of baroness from Jaycy
>because the decision's already been made. Now you're saying to remove every
>baron the right to represent the community when it's already been established
>over the years to be done?
>
> Please tell us why we should abide by Helix's ruling, when your words seem
>to be saying we should eradicate a rule years old, where the baron's council
>has been allowed to "determine the fate of another."
> Var Medici-Giovanni
>Proud Father, Proud Husband
>Phantom Scots Captain
>Baron of the 10th
>
Simple Var,
How can a few, speak for all?
Meth
Date: 06 Jul 1999 23:12:49 EDT
> What's the problem with barons voting on behalf of the community? Do you
>question the integrity of one baron, or more than one baron? You say to go
>ahead and challenge Jaycy if you have a problem with her holding the ring,
>and you can just as easily challenge a baron if you have a problem with them
>voting "for one's fate."
>
> You tell us that it's wrong to remove the right of baroness from Jaycy
>because the decision's already been made. Now you're saying to remove every
>baron the right to represent the community when it's already been established
>over the years to be done?
>
> Please tell us why we should abide by Helix's ruling, when your words seem
>to be saying we should eradicate a rule years old, where the baron's council
>has been allowed to "determine the fate of another."
> Var Medici-Giovanni
>Proud Father, Proud Husband
>Phantom Scots Captain
>Baron of the 10th
>
Simple Var,
How can a few, speak for all?
Meth
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From: methous45@aol.com (Methous45)
Date: 06 Jul 1999 23:14:32 EDT
>Then ye find people like Methous wi' delusions 'o godhood and bein' granted
>Rhydin ast a protectorate. Be thee beggin' ta be part 'o th' Lady Morgana's
>'arem?
>
>Certes from wh' hae been bandied 'bout, yuir kisses aire ta be avoided wi'
>all possible deftness.
>
>Jona
>
>
Relax Jona,
I wouldn't kiss you if my life depended on it. In fact if I died from not kissing you, I'd die happy
Meth
Date: 06 Jul 1999 23:14:32 EDT
>Then ye find people like Methous wi' delusions 'o godhood and bein' granted
>Rhydin ast a protectorate. Be thee beggin' ta be part 'o th' Lady Morgana's
>'arem?
>
>Certes from wh' hae been bandied 'bout, yuir kisses aire ta be avoided wi'
>all possible deftness.
>
>Jona
>
>
Relax Jona,
I wouldn't kiss you if my life depended on it. In fact if I died from not kissing you, I'd die happy
Meth
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:02:14 EDT
>Simple Var,
> How can a few, speak for all?
If that's the case, then why should we abide by Helix's decision? She is one person, and allowing Jaycy's peers to be valid was her decision alone.
I don't think that is the case, however. In my opinion, it is Golden's choice. It is always the head person's choice. It's even the choice of Golden as to whether or not the Baron's Council gets any vote on any matter.
The council does not just jump in and determine everyone's lives at their whim. The issues are brought before us by the Supervisor of the sport. If our judgement is that poor, then I don't think issues presented would be entrusted into the council's hands.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:02:14 EDT
>Simple Var,
> How can a few, speak for all?
If that's the case, then why should we abide by Helix's decision? She is one person, and allowing Jaycy's peers to be valid was her decision alone.
I don't think that is the case, however. In my opinion, it is Golden's choice. It is always the head person's choice. It's even the choice of Golden as to whether or not the Baron's Council gets any vote on any matter.
The council does not just jump in and determine everyone's lives at their whim. The issues are brought before us by the Supervisor of the sport. If our judgement is that poor, then I don't think issues presented would be entrusted into the council's hands.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:05:58 EDT
>>I don't think that is the case, however. In my opinion, it is Golden's choice.<<
Var,
I disagree strongly. It was Helix's choice. She was Supervisor at the time. Her decision was made, for reasons she felt were correct. The matter is now closed, as it should be. When the official with the responsibility to make a decision makes it, then it is made. Or shall we question all the decisions all previous supervisors made so we know if we need to overturn any others?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:05:58 EDT
>>I don't think that is the case, however. In my opinion, it is Golden's choice.<<
Var,
I disagree strongly. It was Helix's choice. She was Supervisor at the time. Her decision was made, for reasons she felt were correct. The matter is now closed, as it should be. When the official with the responsibility to make a decision makes it, then it is made. Or shall we question all the decisions all previous supervisors made so we know if we need to overturn any others?
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:16:08 EDT
>Or shall we question all the decisions all previous supervisors made so we
>know if we need to overturn any others?
The difference is, there is something we can actually do to right a wrong in Jaycy's case. If someone else got a title two years ago by illegal means, we can't just send them a letter saying that it never happened. Ecore had to face the music as a current baron, now Jaycy must face the music.
That's just me. If we can do something about issues now, then I think we should do it.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:16:08 EDT
>Or shall we question all the decisions all previous supervisors made so we
>know if we need to overturn any others?
The difference is, there is something we can actually do to right a wrong in Jaycy's case. If someone else got a title two years ago by illegal means, we can't just send them a letter saying that it never happened. Ecore had to face the music as a current baron, now Jaycy must face the music.
That's just me. If we can do something about issues now, then I think we should do it.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:33:21 EDT
>>The difference is, there is something we can actually do to right a wrong in Jaycy's case.<<
That doesn't make a difference, however. If you feel the need to demand that the decisions of a previous supervisor that you disagree with be questioned by the next supervisor to take office, then you start a chain reaction. I strongly disapprove of the whole matter of Ecore's challenge having been handed to the council instead of the Supervisor doing his job. However, I don't think I will be acting the next Supervisor, or Golden, to change it. It
is made, and it stands. The same is for Helix's decision. It was made, and it should stand.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:33:21 EDT
>>The difference is, there is something we can actually do to right a wrong in Jaycy's case.<<
That doesn't make a difference, however. If you feel the need to demand that the decisions of a previous supervisor that you disagree with be questioned by the next supervisor to take office, then you start a chain reaction. I strongly disapprove of the whole matter of Ecore's challenge having been handed to the council instead of the Supervisor doing his job. However, I don't think I will be acting the next Supervisor, or Golden, to change it. It
is made, and it stands. The same is for Helix's decision. It was made, and it should stand.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
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From: zenblack@aol.com (Zen Black)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:36:48 EDT
Var, in your example, are you using it because that person would no longer have the ring or because of the length of time that has passed?
If it is because of the time, then the question is, is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing? I don't know if there is or isn't; if there should or shouldn't be.
If it is the first answer, then the question is immaterial.
Date: 07 Jul 1999 00:36:48 EDT
Var, in your example, are you using it because that person would no longer have the ring or because of the length of time that has passed?
If it is because of the time, then the question is, is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing? I don't know if there is or isn't; if there should or shouldn't be.
If it is the first answer, then the question is immaterial.
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From: sidarthae@aol.com (Sidartha E)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 02:49:17 EDT
>>The difference is, there is something we can actually do to right a wrong in Jaycy's case. If someone else got a title two years ago by illegal means, we can't just send them a letter saying that it never happened. Ecore had to face the music as a current baron, now Jaycy must face the music.<<
Face the music, Var? Helix had made a technical error by informing Jaycy that her challenge would be valid should she send it. Aparantly she felt the way to rectify that was to allow it to go through. The case was closed when Helix made the decision, for good or for ill.
~Sidartha
Date: 07 Jul 1999 02:49:17 EDT
>>The difference is, there is something we can actually do to right a wrong in Jaycy's case. If someone else got a title two years ago by illegal means, we can't just send them a letter saying that it never happened. Ecore had to face the music as a current baron, now Jaycy must face the music.<<
Face the music, Var? Helix had made a technical error by informing Jaycy that her challenge would be valid should she send it. Aparantly she felt the way to rectify that was to allow it to go through. The case was closed when Helix made the decision, for good or for ill.
~Sidartha
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 02:54:46 EDT
"Var, in your example, are you using it because that person would no longer have the ring or because of the length of time that has passed?"
It was meant because the person would no longer have the ring. I just said two years in the example because very few people could hold a title for such a long period of time. I apologize if my example confused the point.
Like I said before, if there is a current wrong, then there's a way to make it right. Ecore did have to go through it. As nice of a person Jaycy is, she does know she is wearing the ring because of an invalid challenge, a direct infraction of the rules. What angers me more about this situation is the fact that this was allowed by a supervisor in the first place.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
Date: 07 Jul 1999 02:54:46 EDT
"Var, in your example, are you using it because that person would no longer have the ring or because of the length of time that has passed?"
It was meant because the person would no longer have the ring. I just said two years in the example because very few people could hold a title for such a long period of time. I apologize if my example confused the point.
Like I said before, if there is a current wrong, then there's a way to make it right. Ecore did have to go through it. As nice of a person Jaycy is, she does know she is wearing the ring because of an invalid challenge, a direct infraction of the rules. What angers me more about this situation is the fact that this was allowed by a supervisor in the first place.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Phantom Scots Captain
Baron of the 10th
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From: cyggnimoi@aol.com (Cyg Gnimoi)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 08:06:58 EDT
What Lord percival speaks is wisdom extraordinaire.
Baroness Jaycynda proceeded and dueled her challenge and was victorious, regardless of what error made brought her to the challenge ring.
I say, when the 13 Baron's are elected to stand as judge by and over those who duel, then I shall see the light of their voice, but until then, I stand firm that matters of a duelist's fate are correctly placed in the hands of the Official's that serve the interest of the community, be it right or be it wrong thru whose eyes see truth, for what is truth when error made is by imperfect beings?
I remain in Grace,
Cygnet S. Gnimoi
Date: 07 Jul 1999 08:06:58 EDT
What Lord percival speaks is wisdom extraordinaire.
Baroness Jaycynda proceeded and dueled her challenge and was victorious, regardless of what error made brought her to the challenge ring.
I say, when the 13 Baron's are elected to stand as judge by and over those who duel, then I shall see the light of their voice, but until then, I stand firm that matters of a duelist's fate are correctly placed in the hands of the Official's that serve the interest of the community, be it right or be it wrong thru whose eyes see truth, for what is truth when error made is by imperfect beings?
I remain in Grace,
Cygnet S. Gnimoi
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 07 Jul 1999 19:40:40 EDT
She chortled gaily as she perused Meth's note, tacking her own to the cork.
<<Relax Jona,
I wouldn't kiss you if my life depended on it. In fact if I died from not kissing you, I'd die happy
Meth>>
Meth,
Rest assured I would thee ta die 'appy. I shall place a lily 'pon thine gravesite. I do hope thee shall seek such ecstasy ast soon ast thee can. One would wish thee ta nae eschew such bliss anna longer than tis needful ta find 'appiness.
Jona
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.
Date: 07 Jul 1999 19:40:40 EDT
She chortled gaily as she perused Meth's note, tacking her own to the cork.
<<Relax Jona,
I wouldn't kiss you if my life depended on it. In fact if I died from not kissing you, I'd die happy
Meth>>
Meth,
Rest assured I would thee ta die 'appy. I shall place a lily 'pon thine gravesite. I do hope thee shall seek such ecstasy ast soon ast thee can. One would wish thee ta nae eschew such bliss anna longer than tis needful ta find 'appiness.
Jona
Jonalyn Nenshen Starfare
Commoner, Duel of Swords
Regent of Auravia
Co-Chancellor of Starhaven
Queen of Westridge, and the Provinces.
Regent for the heirs to Auravia and Westridge.