From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 26 Feb 2000 03:58:57 EST
Drakewyn,
Could it not be said, keeping a despicable person as yer friend is also a despicable act? Would it not reflect upon personal merit if someone chose ta befriend such a person?
Now, on da matter of who's despicable, it is of course a matter of opinion. However, if person A decides person B is despicable; and person C befriends person B, it is quite valid person A will find person C also despicable. I hope you will see my point despite my roundabout metaphor.
~J
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 26 Feb 2000 11:35:28 EST
"You sadly assume everyone judges everyone harshly by who dey keep as friends."
It's a very sad reason for not holding one as a friend.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
Date: 26 Feb 2000 11:35:28 EST
"You sadly assume everyone judges everyone harshly by who dey keep as friends."
It's a very sad reason for not holding one as a friend.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
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From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 26 Feb 2000 13:15:58 EST
"Could it not be said, keeping a despicable person as yer friend is also a despicable act? Would it not reflect upon personal merit if someone chose ta befriend such a person?"
Jeffrey:
It could be said, but only if in one's heart, one knows one's despicable friend to be despicable.
However, as you yourself well know, oftentimes we can be fooled. We might have gotten to know the good things about a person, and been blinded to the bad; that, it seems, is when you run into the endless arguments which consist mostly of one group of people decrying someone, and another group shouting about how wonderful that person is.
Put simply, I'm afraid I don't grasp the concept here. I am friends with both Cassius and Lupton; they despise one another, so by the logic you offer, they should both also despise me... yet, if they both did, I wouldn't be friends with either, and then they'd have no reason to despise me, in which case we'd be friends... let me know when you get dizzy.
The same sort of scenario exists regarding my oldest friend in this realm and the woman I happen to sleep with.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
Date: 26 Feb 2000 13:15:58 EST
"Could it not be said, keeping a despicable person as yer friend is also a despicable act? Would it not reflect upon personal merit if someone chose ta befriend such a person?"
Jeffrey:
It could be said, but only if in one's heart, one knows one's despicable friend to be despicable.
However, as you yourself well know, oftentimes we can be fooled. We might have gotten to know the good things about a person, and been blinded to the bad; that, it seems, is when you run into the endless arguments which consist mostly of one group of people decrying someone, and another group shouting about how wonderful that person is.
Put simply, I'm afraid I don't grasp the concept here. I am friends with both Cassius and Lupton; they despise one another, so by the logic you offer, they should both also despise me... yet, if they both did, I wouldn't be friends with either, and then they'd have no reason to despise me, in which case we'd be friends... let me know when you get dizzy.
The same sort of scenario exists regarding my oldest friend in this realm and the woman I happen to sleep with.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
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From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 26 Feb 2000 21:09:12 EST
Ian,
As was da point in my response ta Drey Starke, not everyone holds as a criterion of goodness dat one must have only "good" friends. You, fer instance, do not hold dat one's friends stands as a mark of personal merit or quality. However, I contend some people do in fact judge another person's merit by da company dey keep. Furthermore, it is my opinion dat doing so is a legitimate reason fer disliking a person.
I will give you a quick example. I have great hatred fer Methous, I find him ta be a despicable person. Should anyone befriend Methous, I would also dislike dat person. Phantom, a resident of Twilight Island, and an occassional dueler in DoS often shows his support of Methous. I frown upon his support and find Phantom despicable fer desiring ta support one so vile as Methous.
While it may seem ta some Methous is a more extreme case dan Percival (person in question during Jonalyns post), it doesn't change da motivation behind her emotions.
~J
Date: 26 Feb 2000 21:09:12 EST
Ian,
As was da point in my response ta Drey Starke, not everyone holds as a criterion of goodness dat one must have only "good" friends. You, fer instance, do not hold dat one's friends stands as a mark of personal merit or quality. However, I contend some people do in fact judge another person's merit by da company dey keep. Furthermore, it is my opinion dat doing so is a legitimate reason fer disliking a person.
I will give you a quick example. I have great hatred fer Methous, I find him ta be a despicable person. Should anyone befriend Methous, I would also dislike dat person. Phantom, a resident of Twilight Island, and an occassional dueler in DoS often shows his support of Methous. I frown upon his support and find Phantom despicable fer desiring ta support one so vile as Methous.
While it may seem ta some Methous is a more extreme case dan Percival (person in question during Jonalyns post), it doesn't change da motivation behind her emotions.
~J
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From: sabastiangldrvn@aol.com (Sabastian GldRvn)
Date: 26 Feb 2000 23:51:57 EST
The strength of an individual is shown by the strength of their enemies.
Especially their deceased enemies.
Sabastian GoldRaven
Date: 26 Feb 2000 23:51:57 EST
The strength of an individual is shown by the strength of their enemies.
Especially their deceased enemies.
Sabastian GoldRaven
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 27 Feb 2000 02:45:35 EST
Softly chuckles then pens a note tacking it to the board.
Sabastian GoldRaven
Ah gave up countin' ta bodies long ago.
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 27 Feb 2000 02:45:35 EST
Softly chuckles then pens a note tacking it to the board.
Sabastian GoldRaven
Ah gave up countin' ta bodies long ago.
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 27 Feb 2000 03:20:31 EST
::Just sort of browsing the cork, he finds the one note and after reading it, just sorta chuckles and speaks quietly to himself::
"If somebody's enimies are deceased, then they weren't all that tough to start with."
Date: 27 Feb 2000 03:20:31 EST
::Just sort of browsing the cork, he finds the one note and after reading it, just sorta chuckles and speaks quietly to himself::
"If somebody's enimies are deceased, then they weren't all that tough to start with."
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From: zafiroo@aol.com (Zafiroo)
Date: 27 Feb 2000 17:06:39 EST
::wonders by reading more messages::
Well to clarify some of this..I never claimed any of the names as a friend except for the AJaybird. The rest I said I have met and have read some of there previous messages on the boards, also have seen some of them in the historys and as pf right now consider them fine people. Now I may not agree with everything any have said, but they are all straight to the point when they speak. That is something that I respect. When they speak you know exactly
where they stand in that I would say they are fine people. I have not seen them do anything that would make me say otherwise as of yet.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
Date: 27 Feb 2000 17:06:39 EST
::wonders by reading more messages::
Well to clarify some of this..I never claimed any of the names as a friend except for the AJaybird. The rest I said I have met and have read some of there previous messages on the boards, also have seen some of them in the historys and as pf right now consider them fine people. Now I may not agree with everything any have said, but they are all straight to the point when they speak. That is something that I respect. When they speak you know exactly
where they stand in that I would say they are fine people. I have not seen them do anything that would make me say otherwise as of yet.
Zafiroo Turidan
Baron of the First
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 27 Feb 2000 22:35:57 EST
Jeff...
I fear I am going to have to counter your arguement.
You have a great hatred for Methous. It's understandable, he did some things that you, I and most everyone here found to be terribly despicable.
But suppose someone from Methous' homeland were to come here and display his friendship with the man? Would that be any valid reason to automatically dislike them?
I say it would not. It would, however, be reason to explain to that person why Methous is so nearly universally disliked here. And, once that person were to come to understand the situation, one would expect them to draw their own conclusions.
Now, your example of disliking Phantom does hold some weight... not because Phantom keeps company with Methous but because you state that you frown on his support of Methous.
I can keep company with someone... even befriend them... yet still not support everything they do. I can even dislike some of the people that my friends call friends... yet still keep that friendship whole.
Drawing lines only serves to limit yourself.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 27 Feb 2000 22:35:57 EST
Jeff...
I fear I am going to have to counter your arguement.
You have a great hatred for Methous. It's understandable, he did some things that you, I and most everyone here found to be terribly despicable.
But suppose someone from Methous' homeland were to come here and display his friendship with the man? Would that be any valid reason to automatically dislike them?
I say it would not. It would, however, be reason to explain to that person why Methous is so nearly universally disliked here. And, once that person were to come to understand the situation, one would expect them to draw their own conclusions.
Now, your example of disliking Phantom does hold some weight... not because Phantom keeps company with Methous but because you state that you frown on his support of Methous.
I can keep company with someone... even befriend them... yet still not support everything they do. I can even dislike some of the people that my friends call friends... yet still keep that friendship whole.
Drawing lines only serves to limit yourself.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 27 Feb 2000 23:56:03 EST
Jeff...
Let me be as blunt as I can possibly be here.
Lady Starfare views me as a despicable person. G'nort is a good friend of mine. Lady Starfare still treats G'nort well.
Judging someone based on a single act, or on who their friends are, or anything but their overall behavior and actions, is wrong.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 27 Feb 2000 23:56:03 EST
Jeff...
Let me be as blunt as I can possibly be here.
Lady Starfare views me as a despicable person. G'nort is a good friend of mine. Lady Starfare still treats G'nort well.
Judging someone based on a single act, or on who their friends are, or anything but their overall behavior and actions, is wrong.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 27 Feb 2000 23:56:03 EST
Jeff...
Let me be as blunt as I can possibly be here.
Lady Starfare views me as a despicable person. G'nort is a good friend of mine. Lady Starfare still treats G'nort well.
Judging someone based on a single act, or on who their friends are, or anything but their overall behavior and actions, is wrong.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 27 Feb 2000 23:56:03 EST
Jeff...
Let me be as blunt as I can possibly be here.
Lady Starfare views me as a despicable person. G'nort is a good friend of mine. Lady Starfare still treats G'nort well.
Judging someone based on a single act, or on who their friends are, or anything but their overall behavior and actions, is wrong.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 28 Feb 2000 07:04:38 EST
"Judging someone based on a single act, or on who their friends are, or anything but their overall behavior and actions, is wrong."
Drakewyn,
Yer statement above is nothing more dan an opinion, it carries with it no fact or truth in its meaning. As such, it cannot be used ta counter da fact dat I still hold it as a legitimate reason fer feeling dislike fer a person. You may very well disagree with my philosophy on da matter at hand, but your opinions are not proof dat I am wrong and my belief is unfounded.
Also, keep in mind having such a belief does not require one ta exercise it on every occassion. I am sure yer friends ocassionally perform actions which would go against beliefs you have, however other good qualities dey have counteract da bad actions. I suspect such is da case with Gnort and Jona's relationship. However, Zarifoo probably does not have such high merit in Jona's eyes, so his mere befriending of a despicable person (Percival) is
enough ta draw contempt from her.
Do not look at my belief about friends as a template fer judging everyone. Merely consider it in instances, which it is employed.
~J
Date: 28 Feb 2000 07:04:38 EST
"Judging someone based on a single act, or on who their friends are, or anything but their overall behavior and actions, is wrong."
Drakewyn,
Yer statement above is nothing more dan an opinion, it carries with it no fact or truth in its meaning. As such, it cannot be used ta counter da fact dat I still hold it as a legitimate reason fer feeling dislike fer a person. You may very well disagree with my philosophy on da matter at hand, but your opinions are not proof dat I am wrong and my belief is unfounded.
Also, keep in mind having such a belief does not require one ta exercise it on every occassion. I am sure yer friends ocassionally perform actions which would go against beliefs you have, however other good qualities dey have counteract da bad actions. I suspect such is da case with Gnort and Jona's relationship. However, Zarifoo probably does not have such high merit in Jona's eyes, so his mere befriending of a despicable person (Percival) is
enough ta draw contempt from her.
Do not look at my belief about friends as a template fer judging everyone. Merely consider it in instances, which it is employed.
~J
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 28 Feb 2000 16:28:30 EST
Madame Silvertree,
Ast be yuir usual thee attribute unto me a judgment based upon yuir own lights. Madame those I do consider despicable hae done heinous deeds, murder, rapine, slavery, treason against sovereigns, invasion of sovereign lands, the slaughter of innocents and those who hae committed atrocities.
Thee, Madame, I merely consider arrogant, pompous, ignorant and desirous of power, power which thee hae nae the meagerest grasp upon intelligence to wield with anna regard for the consequences. Tis oft I hae witnessed in mine manna long years within these vast realms, the folly of those who are so desirous of power that they hae found themselves lain low by their own follies.
So like thee to wish others to hold unto thine standards, Madame, forein thine standards are among the lowest common denominators. Thou canst nae rise above thine own abysmal depths, Madame, and do find only those that accept thine standards more oft to rally unto thee.
One may judge by a single heinous act ast well ast by a continuing show of folly, Madame. Rest assured, Drakey Poo, were the Baron, G'nort to hae committed the very follies thou hast done, he wouldst know the sting of both pen and tongue.
Thou, Madame, ast be yuir usual declare unto others what is wrong, yet thee commit deeds more wrongful and be desirous that thee be nae chastised but praised. The mark of a truly insecure individual, one who shall nae accept responsibility for her own deeds, be thee.
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 28 Feb 2000 16:28:30 EST
Madame Silvertree,
Ast be yuir usual thee attribute unto me a judgment based upon yuir own lights. Madame those I do consider despicable hae done heinous deeds, murder, rapine, slavery, treason against sovereigns, invasion of sovereign lands, the slaughter of innocents and those who hae committed atrocities.
Thee, Madame, I merely consider arrogant, pompous, ignorant and desirous of power, power which thee hae nae the meagerest grasp upon intelligence to wield with anna regard for the consequences. Tis oft I hae witnessed in mine manna long years within these vast realms, the folly of those who are so desirous of power that they hae found themselves lain low by their own follies.
So like thee to wish others to hold unto thine standards, Madame, forein thine standards are among the lowest common denominators. Thou canst nae rise above thine own abysmal depths, Madame, and do find only those that accept thine standards more oft to rally unto thee.
One may judge by a single heinous act ast well ast by a continuing show of folly, Madame. Rest assured, Drakey Poo, were the Baron, G'nort to hae committed the very follies thou hast done, he wouldst know the sting of both pen and tongue.
Thou, Madame, ast be yuir usual declare unto others what is wrong, yet thee commit deeds more wrongful and be desirous that thee be nae chastised but praised. The mark of a truly insecure individual, one who shall nae accept responsibility for her own deeds, be thee.
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Starfare