From: simini@aol.com (Simini)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 01:48:28 EDT
>I think Simini challenged me before the standings even came out, but I'm not
>totally sure about that.
>
>- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
Master Starke,
How dare you make an accusation of me you are not even sure is with foundation.
I made the decision to put forth my Challenge the instant I learned of your new title, that is true. I debated whether or not to allow you time with your title, because in general I feel it is rude to issue Challenge so quickly.
However, since I chose to Challenge you because I wholeheartedly disagree with your attitude toward this sport, I could not, in my heart, allow you to hold influence over it for a moment longer than necessary, regardless of propriety.
Not a moment longer than necessary. My Challenge was issued within hours of the posting of the Standings officially announcing your new title.
Whatever your reasons, whatever your current state of mind, making accusations like this in a public forum with no apparent reasoning is nothing beyond unconscionable.
As an added note, Master Starke... please do not request my services in the future as an officiator; I will refuse.
~ Simini
Challenge Me.
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From: morganalefay@aol.com (Morgana le Fay)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 09:52:49 EDT
Was Drey's challenge that was invalidated overturned? Will someone, preferably Val, comment on this?
Date: 18 Apr 2000 09:52:49 EDT
Was Drey's challenge that was invalidated overturned? Will someone, preferably Val, comment on this?
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:55:56 EDT
>"I think Simini challenged me before the standings even came out, but I'm not
>totally sure about that.
>
>- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
Master Starke,
How dare you make an accusation of me you are not even sure is with foundation."
Simini,
I meant no insult, or didn't even intend to be offensive. I wasn't sure, and nor did it bother me when you challenged so quickly. When I have the ring in my possession, I believe I should have all rights as a Baron, but I realize that is wrong.
>making accusations like this in a public forum with no apparent reasoning is
>nothing beyond unconscionable.
I only said it for the "apparent" reasoning that if you did challenge before the standings came out, then you'd be at fault - no offense of course.
>As an added note, Master Starke... please do not request my services in the
>future as an officiator; I will refuse.
But if you choose to overreact, that is indeed, your choice. I've no qualms, for you're certainly no prized caller of mine nor a delicacy to my duels.
Morgan,
The challenge did not follow through, but I'll be able to challenge the following week because the rules aren't bulletproof or substantial on the subject. I received no punishment, but just wait for the standings to come out. But in the future, if another Baron does challenge the way I did, consequences will be given.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:55:56 EDT
>"I think Simini challenged me before the standings even came out, but I'm not
>totally sure about that.
>
>- Drey D'erest Sanchez Starke
Master Starke,
How dare you make an accusation of me you are not even sure is with foundation."
Simini,
I meant no insult, or didn't even intend to be offensive. I wasn't sure, and nor did it bother me when you challenged so quickly. When I have the ring in my possession, I believe I should have all rights as a Baron, but I realize that is wrong.
>making accusations like this in a public forum with no apparent reasoning is
>nothing beyond unconscionable.
I only said it for the "apparent" reasoning that if you did challenge before the standings came out, then you'd be at fault - no offense of course.
>As an added note, Master Starke... please do not request my services in the
>future as an officiator; I will refuse.
But if you choose to overreact, that is indeed, your choice. I've no qualms, for you're certainly no prized caller of mine nor a delicacy to my duels.
Morgan,
The challenge did not follow through, but I'll be able to challenge the following week because the rules aren't bulletproof or substantial on the subject. I received no punishment, but just wait for the standings to come out. But in the future, if another Baron does challenge the way I did, consequences will be given.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
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From: morganalefay@aol.com (Morgana le Fay)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 17:40:08 EDT
Reminding people that I made no opinion on this subject, I simply asked if it was resolved, overturned, or whatnot.
I prefer if Val give an official response on the outcome of this confusing situation.
Date: 18 Apr 2000 17:40:08 EDT
Reminding people that I made no opinion on this subject, I simply asked if it was resolved, overturned, or whatnot.
I prefer if Val give an official response on the outcome of this confusing situation.
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 19:54:32 EDT
He did, I just translated it.
"To all,
Here's how I see it. Drey has the Baron's ring now, as he won it in his challenge match. According to the rules, Drey is not eligible to be challenged -- that's be challenged, not challenge himself -- until the standings are released, announcing him as the new Baron. Two very simple facts that I think everyone can agree with.
Along those lines, I don't see why Drey has the right to challenge the Overlord when no one has the right to challenge him. If you consider the opportunity to challenge the Overlord as a right and having to face challenges for the ring as a detriment, I don't feel one should be gained before the other. Both the rights and the detriments of the title should be gained simultaneously. So I agree with Drake that Drey's challenge to the Overlord is
invalid.
However, given the ambiguity of the rules governing this situation and past rulings in similar situations, I can see how confusion could take hold here. Therefore there will be no punishment against Drey. He will retain his right to challenge the Overlord. Until the rules can be formally addressed and corrected to eliminate the confusion, let this stand as the precedent for future occasions. Except that future Barons who make this error will
suffer the consequences.
Val"
Helpfully yours,
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
Date: 18 Apr 2000 19:54:32 EDT
He did, I just translated it.
"To all,
Here's how I see it. Drey has the Baron's ring now, as he won it in his challenge match. According to the rules, Drey is not eligible to be challenged -- that's be challenged, not challenge himself -- until the standings are released, announcing him as the new Baron. Two very simple facts that I think everyone can agree with.
Along those lines, I don't see why Drey has the right to challenge the Overlord when no one has the right to challenge him. If you consider the opportunity to challenge the Overlord as a right and having to face challenges for the ring as a detriment, I don't feel one should be gained before the other. Both the rights and the detriments of the title should be gained simultaneously. So I agree with Drake that Drey's challenge to the Overlord is
invalid.
However, given the ambiguity of the rules governing this situation and past rulings in similar situations, I can see how confusion could take hold here. Therefore there will be no punishment against Drey. He will retain his right to challenge the Overlord. Until the rules can be formally addressed and corrected to eliminate the confusion, let this stand as the precedent for future occasions. Except that future Barons who make this error will
suffer the consequences.
Val"
Helpfully yours,
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 19:56:08 EDT
One slim raven brow lifted, the woman perused the various missives. Quill poised, parchment resting upon the cork, she dictated, then tacked the missive to the cork, sending a true copy by courier unto Master Valentine Evermeadow.
Master Starke,
Thou hast agin proven thineself to be a dolt, a lackwit, a blight upon th' title thou hast garnered ast well ast a detestable cur.
Indeed, how dare thee cast insult an' aspersion upon Simini? Wast it nae she wh' officiated at yuir match? Perhaps tis in thine insecurity an' what canst only be described ast childish pique, thou wouldst seek to do what canst only be construed ast casting insult upon one whose honor an' integrity wast proven whilst thou wert yet wetting thine trews an' drooling thine pablum.
Thou make claim th' ye were nae bothered in th' thee were issued challenge ast soon ast it wast permitted, yet thee wouldst dare ta infer th' Simini hae nae honored both thee and th' rules o' engagement? Methin's thee were indeed bothered, sirrah, else thee wouldst nae make anna mention 'o th' circumstance. Ast be th' case wi' so many o' thine ilk, thee show thineself ta be but a mere blot in the long history o' th' ancient sport, a laughable clown,
a pitiable joke what hae somehow managed to garner a ring.
Ye made accusation, sirrah, based upon nothing save perhaps thine own childish pique ast well ast display thineself ta be little more th' a coward. Were thee to indeed hold within thine mind that Simini hae made improper challenge, wherefore were thine protesations at th' time ta challenge wast lain afore thee? Thou stood in silence nae making anna protestations attal, sirrah, yet now, thee dare ta make slanderous insinuations?
Th' only thing wh' be "apparent" in yuir reasoning, Master Starke, be th' thee hae nae anna capability o' reason atall. Thee pen on th' one hand th' thee meant nae insult and dinna mean to be offensive, then infer th' Simini ist somehow overreacting, then dare ta offer further insult unto her.
If'n tis annaone "overreacting" tis thee, sirrah, an', ast be yuir usual, thee bu' show thineself ta be th' true moron. Tis further thou dost show thine ignorance, nae, Ah shall call it wh' it be, stupidity, for in thee make mention of earning bona fides. Perhaps, Master Starke, it hae escaped yuir notice th' those wh' hold title canna earn bona fides.
Thou art a detestable cur, a scurrilous affront ta th' ancient sport, a canker to be excised, a pustule to be pricked. Thee spew ast a petulant child, Master Starke an' be unworthy ta bear th' title o' baron.
Ast much ast it dost pain me ta write, sirrah, th' one thin' thou indeed hold ast a privilege by tradition, be th' privilege 'o issuin' immediate challenge unta th' Overlord.
Unto thee, Mark Race, and thee, Ian.
Indeed, when th' new Overlord Athlstan didst intercede on behalf of th' Baron Ajay, 'e didst so according ta long established tradition.
Indeed, the eve th' Seamus MacDonnaugh didst stand fer th' warlord, Eros deBurgo and didst meet th' Baron Sartan wast th' verra eve th' Seamus wast unseated by ta warlord, Cristian de Oro, an' ast such, by tradition, should nae hae been permitted ta intercede on behalf 'o ta warlord, Eros deBurgo.
By long standin' tradition, upon gainin' title, all ta privileges an' duties are bestowed 'pon ta new Baron or ta Overlord, save th' 'o facin' immediate challenge from those wh' 'old ta rank 'o warlord until such time ast th' official lists hae been placed afore ta community.
In ta matter 'o those newly come unta ta title 'o Baron an' wh' hae been registered ast a participant in ta Tourney 'o Warlords, agin, by long standin' tradition, ta newly titled Baron wast precluded from takin' part.
One matter wh' comes ta mind be th' unseatin' 'o th' Baron Kalamere Ar'din by ta then warlord, Damon Black. T'was ta Council 'o Barons wast holdin' session at th' time. If'n memory dost serve me, t'was Kalamere didst inquire 'o th' new Baron Black if'n ta new Baron wouldst then take 'is seat 'pon ta Council forthwith or wouldst permit Kalamere ta remain seated whilst ta Council continued its deliberations. T'was ta new Baron Black didst mos'
graciously decline ta take 'is rightful place permittin' Kalamere ta continue, though agin, by tradition an' privilege, hae ta new Baron wished ta 'e couldst hae taken 'is place 'pon ta Council immediately.
Agin, by tradition, t'was 'eld th' whilst ta Council met in session, shouldst one or more 'o its members be unseated, it wast t'wixt ta new Baron an' ta former Baron ta come ta agreement, though ta rules 'o engagement be construed ta permit ta newly unseated Baron ta retain 'is seat 'pon ta Council until such time ast ta official list be lain afore ta community.
Indeed, for in th' tis rarely a question 'o th' titles changin' 'ands properly, th' title 'o Baron an' Overlord require nae anna verification save th' ta match ist properly witnessed by an official 'o th' sport, unlike th' requirement 'o th' ranks 'o warlord an' lesser ranks wh' require certification.
Wi' th' exception 'o challenges wh' were fought then set aside fer various improprieties, such ast th' 'o ta then Baron Darkness when 'e didst face th' then warlord, Sartan whilst ta matter 'o th' challenge wast before ta Council, an' ta improper challenge issued by th' then warlord Elijah Basia-Uhr, tis indeed been long 'eld an' agreed by ta community th' th' title dost pass immediately ast well ast all privileges, responsibilities an' duties.
One may opine, if'n one 'olds ta th' ancient traditions an' precedents, th' ta garnerin' 'o title dost indeed grant, among other privileges, th' privilege 'o nae facin' challenge by those 'o th' untitled ranks until such time ast th' community be apprised by th' official lists.
Tis seemin' o'er ta years, mos' noticeably durin' ta tenure 'o ta last two Supervisors an' seemin' now durin' ta tenure 'o th' younger Master Evermeadow, certain pronouncements may hae been made privily an' unbeknownst ta nor officially announced ta th' community.
Among such 'rogue decisions' be th' 'o ta one wh' didst permit ta improperly issued challenge 'o Jaycynda Ashleana unta th' then Baron Evan Rush Rynth ta proceed ast well ast th' which Master Race hae noted. Tis other decisions wh' hae been made wh' hae shown bias an' prejudice agin various members 'o ta community ast well ast decisions which mayest only be construed ast showin' ast well favoritism.
Ta community ast well awaits ta reasons wherefore Young Master Evermeadow chose ta punish ta then Baron Lord Daryl Kyle by removing ta right 'o ta Overlord, Avery Shiv Blade ta intercede on behalf 'o 'is loyal Baron. Wherefore shouldst th' rights an' privileges 'o th' Overlord be set aside an' then claimed ta be ast punishment fer th' Baron? Dost punishment for ta acts 'o 'is Barons now fall upon ta Overlord?
Unto thee, Overlord Avery Shiv Blade,
With respect, sir, tis ast Ian hast writ. T'was nae anna mistake made when th' newly mantled Overlord, th' cleric, Athlstan didst stand in intercession fer 'is Baron, Ajay. T'was 'is privilege, gained immediately upon earnin' title.
Thee may wish ta peruse ta rankin's dated 'pon ta thirteenth day 'o ta fifth month, three common years past. Th' cleric hae won ta Warlord Tourney, then didst face th' then Overlord Kalamere Ar'din, unseating Kalamere. Ta warlord Raiyko Hideo hae lain challenge unta th' Loyal Baron Ajay. Ta unaligned Baron, Lord Ford Prefect, stood on behalf 'o ta Warlord, whilst th' newly mantled Overlord, Athlstan stood fer his Loyal Baron. In th' match, ta
Overlord met defeat at th' 'ands 'o Lord Prefect, th' Loyal Baron Ajay goin' on ta defeat ta elfling warlord, Raiyko Hideo.
With respect young sir, t'was thine choice nae ta accept yuir privileges upon gainin' title. Indeed, thee hae attempted ta represent ta sport an' ta community wi' both skill an' 'onor, yet if'n indeed thee cherish th' history, dost nae also cherish th' traditions wh' thine predecessors establish? Or be thee 'o a mine ta set thine own traditions, sir?
In that thou hast express that ye indeed wonder if Master Starke ist suited fer 'is title, sir, in th' Ah wonder nae. Th' eve 'e didst garner title, 'e didst mos' clearly state 'e wouldst be comin' fer thee.
Ast much ast Ah find Master Starke to be a despicable cur, fit nae ta lick bu' 'is own spittle from ta stones, by tradition, 'e hae ta right an' privilege ta issue immediate challenge unta thee.
Ast ta 'arm done, Avery, tis by such rogue decisions ast well ast th' callous disregard fer tradition nae ta mention ta blithe disregard fer ta rules 'o engagement wh' do continue ta lay ta once proud an' ancient sport low. Sadly, Avery, thine reign be one wh' hae found manna seated 'pon yuir Council wh' hae nae ta sense 'o tradition an' 'onor wh' once shown so brightly within these ancient 'alls.
Unto thee, Fandral Kurgan,
First, let me say this, tis it be wi' warmth an' true pleasure th' Ah came upon thine missive 'pon ta cork. In all th' manna years 'o th' thine presence within ta sport, well didst thine sense 'o 'onor shine ast a bright beacon within these ancient 'alls.
Master Valentine Evermeadow,
Again Ah do call upon thee ta make known th' circumstances an' anna adjudication thee may hae made wi' regard ta th' matter. Ta community hae ta right ta know if'n anna official decision wast rendered by thee.
Jonalyn Starfare.
Date: 18 Apr 2000 19:56:08 EDT
One slim raven brow lifted, the woman perused the various missives. Quill poised, parchment resting upon the cork, she dictated, then tacked the missive to the cork, sending a true copy by courier unto Master Valentine Evermeadow.
Master Starke,
Thou hast agin proven thineself to be a dolt, a lackwit, a blight upon th' title thou hast garnered ast well ast a detestable cur.
Indeed, how dare thee cast insult an' aspersion upon Simini? Wast it nae she wh' officiated at yuir match? Perhaps tis in thine insecurity an' what canst only be described ast childish pique, thou wouldst seek to do what canst only be construed ast casting insult upon one whose honor an' integrity wast proven whilst thou wert yet wetting thine trews an' drooling thine pablum.
Thou make claim th' ye were nae bothered in th' thee were issued challenge ast soon ast it wast permitted, yet thee wouldst dare ta infer th' Simini hae nae honored both thee and th' rules o' engagement? Methin's thee were indeed bothered, sirrah, else thee wouldst nae make anna mention 'o th' circumstance. Ast be th' case wi' so many o' thine ilk, thee show thineself ta be but a mere blot in the long history o' th' ancient sport, a laughable clown,
a pitiable joke what hae somehow managed to garner a ring.
Ye made accusation, sirrah, based upon nothing save perhaps thine own childish pique ast well ast display thineself ta be little more th' a coward. Were thee to indeed hold within thine mind that Simini hae made improper challenge, wherefore were thine protesations at th' time ta challenge wast lain afore thee? Thou stood in silence nae making anna protestations attal, sirrah, yet now, thee dare ta make slanderous insinuations?
Th' only thing wh' be "apparent" in yuir reasoning, Master Starke, be th' thee hae nae anna capability o' reason atall. Thee pen on th' one hand th' thee meant nae insult and dinna mean to be offensive, then infer th' Simini ist somehow overreacting, then dare ta offer further insult unto her.
If'n tis annaone "overreacting" tis thee, sirrah, an', ast be yuir usual, thee bu' show thineself ta be th' true moron. Tis further thou dost show thine ignorance, nae, Ah shall call it wh' it be, stupidity, for in thee make mention of earning bona fides. Perhaps, Master Starke, it hae escaped yuir notice th' those wh' hold title canna earn bona fides.
Thou art a detestable cur, a scurrilous affront ta th' ancient sport, a canker to be excised, a pustule to be pricked. Thee spew ast a petulant child, Master Starke an' be unworthy ta bear th' title o' baron.
Ast much ast it dost pain me ta write, sirrah, th' one thin' thou indeed hold ast a privilege by tradition, be th' privilege 'o issuin' immediate challenge unta th' Overlord.
Unto thee, Mark Race, and thee, Ian.
Indeed, when th' new Overlord Athlstan didst intercede on behalf of th' Baron Ajay, 'e didst so according ta long established tradition.
Indeed, the eve th' Seamus MacDonnaugh didst stand fer th' warlord, Eros deBurgo and didst meet th' Baron Sartan wast th' verra eve th' Seamus wast unseated by ta warlord, Cristian de Oro, an' ast such, by tradition, should nae hae been permitted ta intercede on behalf 'o ta warlord, Eros deBurgo.
By long standin' tradition, upon gainin' title, all ta privileges an' duties are bestowed 'pon ta new Baron or ta Overlord, save th' 'o facin' immediate challenge from those wh' 'old ta rank 'o warlord until such time ast th' official lists hae been placed afore ta community.
In ta matter 'o those newly come unta ta title 'o Baron an' wh' hae been registered ast a participant in ta Tourney 'o Warlords, agin, by long standin' tradition, ta newly titled Baron wast precluded from takin' part.
One matter wh' comes ta mind be th' unseatin' 'o th' Baron Kalamere Ar'din by ta then warlord, Damon Black. T'was ta Council 'o Barons wast holdin' session at th' time. If'n memory dost serve me, t'was Kalamere didst inquire 'o th' new Baron Black if'n ta new Baron wouldst then take 'is seat 'pon ta Council forthwith or wouldst permit Kalamere ta remain seated whilst ta Council continued its deliberations. T'was ta new Baron Black didst mos'
graciously decline ta take 'is rightful place permittin' Kalamere ta continue, though agin, by tradition an' privilege, hae ta new Baron wished ta 'e couldst hae taken 'is place 'pon ta Council immediately.
Agin, by tradition, t'was 'eld th' whilst ta Council met in session, shouldst one or more 'o its members be unseated, it wast t'wixt ta new Baron an' ta former Baron ta come ta agreement, though ta rules 'o engagement be construed ta permit ta newly unseated Baron ta retain 'is seat 'pon ta Council until such time ast ta official list be lain afore ta community.
Indeed, for in th' tis rarely a question 'o th' titles changin' 'ands properly, th' title 'o Baron an' Overlord require nae anna verification save th' ta match ist properly witnessed by an official 'o th' sport, unlike th' requirement 'o th' ranks 'o warlord an' lesser ranks wh' require certification.
Wi' th' exception 'o challenges wh' were fought then set aside fer various improprieties, such ast th' 'o ta then Baron Darkness when 'e didst face th' then warlord, Sartan whilst ta matter 'o th' challenge wast before ta Council, an' ta improper challenge issued by th' then warlord Elijah Basia-Uhr, tis indeed been long 'eld an' agreed by ta community th' th' title dost pass immediately ast well ast all privileges, responsibilities an' duties.
One may opine, if'n one 'olds ta th' ancient traditions an' precedents, th' ta garnerin' 'o title dost indeed grant, among other privileges, th' privilege 'o nae facin' challenge by those 'o th' untitled ranks until such time ast th' community be apprised by th' official lists.
Tis seemin' o'er ta years, mos' noticeably durin' ta tenure 'o ta last two Supervisors an' seemin' now durin' ta tenure 'o th' younger Master Evermeadow, certain pronouncements may hae been made privily an' unbeknownst ta nor officially announced ta th' community.
Among such 'rogue decisions' be th' 'o ta one wh' didst permit ta improperly issued challenge 'o Jaycynda Ashleana unta th' then Baron Evan Rush Rynth ta proceed ast well ast th' which Master Race hae noted. Tis other decisions wh' hae been made wh' hae shown bias an' prejudice agin various members 'o ta community ast well ast decisions which mayest only be construed ast showin' ast well favoritism.
Ta community ast well awaits ta reasons wherefore Young Master Evermeadow chose ta punish ta then Baron Lord Daryl Kyle by removing ta right 'o ta Overlord, Avery Shiv Blade ta intercede on behalf 'o 'is loyal Baron. Wherefore shouldst th' rights an' privileges 'o th' Overlord be set aside an' then claimed ta be ast punishment fer th' Baron? Dost punishment for ta acts 'o 'is Barons now fall upon ta Overlord?
Unto thee, Overlord Avery Shiv Blade,
With respect, sir, tis ast Ian hast writ. T'was nae anna mistake made when th' newly mantled Overlord, th' cleric, Athlstan didst stand in intercession fer 'is Baron, Ajay. T'was 'is privilege, gained immediately upon earnin' title.
Thee may wish ta peruse ta rankin's dated 'pon ta thirteenth day 'o ta fifth month, three common years past. Th' cleric hae won ta Warlord Tourney, then didst face th' then Overlord Kalamere Ar'din, unseating Kalamere. Ta warlord Raiyko Hideo hae lain challenge unta th' Loyal Baron Ajay. Ta unaligned Baron, Lord Ford Prefect, stood on behalf 'o ta Warlord, whilst th' newly mantled Overlord, Athlstan stood fer his Loyal Baron. In th' match, ta
Overlord met defeat at th' 'ands 'o Lord Prefect, th' Loyal Baron Ajay goin' on ta defeat ta elfling warlord, Raiyko Hideo.
With respect young sir, t'was thine choice nae ta accept yuir privileges upon gainin' title. Indeed, thee hae attempted ta represent ta sport an' ta community wi' both skill an' 'onor, yet if'n indeed thee cherish th' history, dost nae also cherish th' traditions wh' thine predecessors establish? Or be thee 'o a mine ta set thine own traditions, sir?
In that thou hast express that ye indeed wonder if Master Starke ist suited fer 'is title, sir, in th' Ah wonder nae. Th' eve 'e didst garner title, 'e didst mos' clearly state 'e wouldst be comin' fer thee.
Ast much ast Ah find Master Starke to be a despicable cur, fit nae ta lick bu' 'is own spittle from ta stones, by tradition, 'e hae ta right an' privilege ta issue immediate challenge unta thee.
Ast ta 'arm done, Avery, tis by such rogue decisions ast well ast th' callous disregard fer tradition nae ta mention ta blithe disregard fer ta rules 'o engagement wh' do continue ta lay ta once proud an' ancient sport low. Sadly, Avery, thine reign be one wh' hae found manna seated 'pon yuir Council wh' hae nae ta sense 'o tradition an' 'onor wh' once shown so brightly within these ancient 'alls.
Unto thee, Fandral Kurgan,
First, let me say this, tis it be wi' warmth an' true pleasure th' Ah came upon thine missive 'pon ta cork. In all th' manna years 'o th' thine presence within ta sport, well didst thine sense 'o 'onor shine ast a bright beacon within these ancient 'alls.
Master Valentine Evermeadow,
Again Ah do call upon thee ta make known th' circumstances an' anna adjudication thee may hae made wi' regard ta th' matter. Ta community hae ta right ta know if'n anna official decision wast rendered by thee.
Jonalyn Starfare.
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 20:25:18 EDT
Master Starke,
Perhaps thee believe th' by bein' ta bearer 'o a title thee hae suddenly been named ast spokesman fer Master Valentine Evermeadow?
Ah should be verra much surprised if'n young Master Evermeadow hae bestowed th' duty upon thee. Therefore, ye dolt, kindly permit Master Evermeadow himself ta state 'is "official pronouncement".
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 18 Apr 2000 20:25:18 EDT
Master Starke,
Perhaps thee believe th' by bein' ta bearer 'o a title thee hae suddenly been named ast spokesman fer Master Valentine Evermeadow?
Ah should be verra much surprised if'n young Master Evermeadow hae bestowed th' duty upon thee. Therefore, ye dolt, kindly permit Master Evermeadow himself ta state 'is "official pronouncement".
Bluntly,
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: morganalefay@aol.com (Morgana le Fay)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:05:36 EDT
Drakewyn, err, Drey, thank you for posting his letter and speaking for Val. My intent was that Val take the initiative and enlighten the rest of the community of the events and how it was and will be resolved. I was hoping he would do so in a timely manner.
Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:05:36 EDT
Drakewyn, err, Drey, thank you for posting his letter and speaking for Val. My intent was that Val take the initiative and enlighten the rest of the community of the events and how it was and will be resolved. I was hoping he would do so in a timely manner.
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From: gnrtdrgoon@aol.com (GnrtDrgoon)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:41:35 EDT
Let's see,
Have we missed any shots? I'm sure there's a few others you people can insult through all this. Let's not hold back. Come on, Morgan, Jona, Drey, and the rest of you I've forgotten, Let's show how childish we really are.
God, I feel like I'm in a schoolyard.
Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:41:35 EDT
Let's see,
Have we missed any shots? I'm sure there's a few others you people can insult through all this. Let's not hold back. Come on, Morgan, Jona, Drey, and the rest of you I've forgotten, Let's show how childish we really are.
God, I feel like I'm in a schoolyard.
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:27:42 EDT
"Thou make claim th' ye were nae bothered in th' thee were issued challenge ast soon ast it wast permitted, yet thee wouldst dare ta infer th' Simini hae nae honored both thee and th' rules o' engagement?"
I have to be bothered by it, to speak it? It only came across my mind as I was reading over the posts that she may have challenged too soon. That's why I said, "I'm not sure." It really doesn't bother me, and never did.
I never "accused" her of issuing an improper challenge. I just believed it could have been done.
Perhaps, Master Starke, it hae escaped yuir notice th' those wh' hold title canna earn bona fides.
What I meant by that remark is that if I fell from Baron to Warlord, I'll just get the peers and challenge Avery anyway.
"Perhaps thee believe th' by bein' ta bearer 'o a title thee hae suddenly been named ast spokesman fer Master Valentine Evermeadow?"
I realize already I'm at fault for what I did Jonalyn. I don't need you to tell me what I do wrong. It just didn't seem that he was going to say anything and enlighten the community, so I spoke up. I apologize.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:27:42 EDT
"Thou make claim th' ye were nae bothered in th' thee were issued challenge ast soon ast it wast permitted, yet thee wouldst dare ta infer th' Simini hae nae honored both thee and th' rules o' engagement?"
I have to be bothered by it, to speak it? It only came across my mind as I was reading over the posts that she may have challenged too soon. That's why I said, "I'm not sure." It really doesn't bother me, and never did.
I never "accused" her of issuing an improper challenge. I just believed it could have been done.
Perhaps, Master Starke, it hae escaped yuir notice th' those wh' hold title canna earn bona fides.
What I meant by that remark is that if I fell from Baron to Warlord, I'll just get the peers and challenge Avery anyway.
"Perhaps thee believe th' by bein' ta bearer 'o a title thee hae suddenly been named ast spokesman fer Master Valentine Evermeadow?"
I realize already I'm at fault for what I did Jonalyn. I don't need you to tell me what I do wrong. It just didn't seem that he was going to say anything and enlighten the community, so I spoke up. I apologize.
- Drey D'erest Sanchez SIZE=5 PTSIZE=16>Starke
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From: hostdfcval@aol.com (HOST DFC Val)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:32:29 EDT
Interested patrons,
Attached is a copy of my letter to the Baron's Council that contains my official decision.
Val
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To all,
Here's how I see it. Drey has the Baron's ring now, as he won it in his challenge match. According to the rules, Drey is not eligible to be challenged -- that's be challenged, not challenge himself -- until the standings are released, announcing him as the new Baron. Two very simple facts that I think everyone can agree with.
Along those lines, I don't see why Drey has the right to challenge the Overlord when no one has the right to challenge him. If you consider the opportunity to challenge the Overlord as a right and having to face challenges for the ring as a detriment, I don't feel one should be gained before the other. Both the rights and the detriments of the title should be gained simultaneously. So I agree with Drake that Drey's challenge to the Overlord is
invalid.
However, given the ambiguity of the rules governing this situation and past rulings in similar situations, I can see how confusion could take hold here. Therefore there will be no punishment against Drey. He will retain his right to challenge the Overlord. Until the rules can be formally addressed and corrected to eliminate the confusion, let this stand as the precedent for future occasions. Except that future Barons who make this error will
suffer the consequences.
Val
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:32:29 EDT
Interested patrons,
Attached is a copy of my letter to the Baron's Council that contains my official decision.
Val
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To all,
Here's how I see it. Drey has the Baron's ring now, as he won it in his challenge match. According to the rules, Drey is not eligible to be challenged -- that's be challenged, not challenge himself -- until the standings are released, announcing him as the new Baron. Two very simple facts that I think everyone can agree with.
Along those lines, I don't see why Drey has the right to challenge the Overlord when no one has the right to challenge him. If you consider the opportunity to challenge the Overlord as a right and having to face challenges for the ring as a detriment, I don't feel one should be gained before the other. Both the rights and the detriments of the title should be gained simultaneously. So I agree with Drake that Drey's challenge to the Overlord is
invalid.
However, given the ambiguity of the rules governing this situation and past rulings in similar situations, I can see how confusion could take hold here. Therefore there will be no punishment against Drey. He will retain his right to challenge the Overlord. Until the rules can be formally addressed and corrected to eliminate the confusion, let this stand as the precedent for future occasions. Except that future Barons who make this error will
suffer the consequences.
Val
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:38:10 EDT
Bravo Morgan...
Wonderfully meaningless pot shot there.
A note to any who would challenge for the Mantle of Overlord.
It would seem that "tradition" favors you to challenge a Baron, defeat them, then challenge the Overlord as quickly as possible... the next day, preferably.
It sure beats garnering those extra five peer wins... and besides, everyone knows that certain people frown on Barons receiving the Test of Worthiness.
Very honorable indeed.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:38:10 EDT
Bravo Morgan...
Wonderfully meaningless pot shot there.
A note to any who would challenge for the Mantle of Overlord.
It would seem that "tradition" favors you to challenge a Baron, defeat them, then challenge the Overlord as quickly as possible... the next day, preferably.
It sure beats garnering those extra five peer wins... and besides, everyone knows that certain people frown on Barons receiving the Test of Worthiness.
Very honorable indeed.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: jessetroyn@aol.com (JesseTroyn)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 23:22:29 EDT
No offense, Drakey, but why bother being bitter just because your ruling was overturned? It's just pointless and annoying. After all, you should be used to making the wrong decision by now. Just suck it up and let it go. That's what a real man would do.
-JT
Date: 18 Apr 2000 23:22:29 EDT
No offense, Drakey, but why bother being bitter just because your ruling was overturned? It's just pointless and annoying. After all, you should be used to making the wrong decision by now. Just suck it up and let it go. That's what a real man would do.
-JT
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From: rlupton@aol.com (RLupton)
Date: 18 Apr 2000 23:57:45 EDT
Drakewyn,
If there was a Baron I detested serving at the same time as an unfit Overlord, I may do as you described and remove the Baron followed by a challenge to the Overlord. It's the most logical course. If you think I'd choose this to save myself defeating five more Warlords, I would laugh at you. For days.
I'm not sure if this was Drey's motive, but your whine-filled accusation seemed a bit far from the truth.
~ Lupton
Date: 18 Apr 2000 23:57:45 EDT
Drakewyn,
If there was a Baron I detested serving at the same time as an unfit Overlord, I may do as you described and remove the Baron followed by a challenge to the Overlord. It's the most logical course. If you think I'd choose this to save myself defeating five more Warlords, I would laugh at you. For days.
I'm not sure if this was Drey's motive, but your whine-filled accusation seemed a bit far from the truth.
~ Lupton
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 19 Apr 2000 01:19:45 EDT
G'nort,
Perhaps tis indeed time fer thee ta take a wee trip ast wast commented upon by some in ta basement. If'n thee feel yuir in a schoolyard perhaps thee might offer yuir services ta th' orphanage. Were it left ta thee, sir, thee wouldst hae Madame Silvertree ta believin' she be other th' a worthless, whinin', snivelin' wench wh' hae proven yet again th' she wh' hae made repeated claims ta nae only know ta 'istories wouldst th' they be 'onored,
ast well ast th' traditions hae again shown she hae nae anna true sense 'o either.
Perhaps tis th' she wast ignorant enow ta garner infermation from those ast ignorant as she? Perhaps th' be 'er excuse. She be rather adept at makin' excuses fer 'er perfidy, yet though ignorance canst be excused, stupidity canna. T'would seem th' again, Madame Silvertree o'erstepped 'erself, 'ow verra much expected th' be. Ah shall nae be so rude ast ta suggest thee stuff a sock in it, G'nort, bu' Ah shall also remind thee, though thou hast been
long a member 'o th' community, thee hae nae been appointed ast elder statemen nor be cognizant 'o much wh' transpires both within an' without ta basement.
Madame Silvertree,
Since tis already been shown by thee th' thee hae nae anna inklin' atall 'o ta traditions an' little true understandin' 'o th' sport save th' thee wouldst seem agin ta wish ta ram down anothers throat yuir own flawed codes, tis thee do bu' little ta enhance either ta sport or ta traditions.
Tis vastly amusing thine sweepin' an' ast usual flawed statement th' everyone knows somethin'. Were th' true, Madame, thee would hae known ta traditions an' nae made yuir rulin' in ta matter 'o Master Starke.
What 'onor may hae once resided within thee, Madame, thee hae long since flung aside. Thine whinin' an' carpin' bu' sounds like th' yammerin' 'o a spoiled, ill bred child wh' hae been sat in a corner. Madame, tis perhaps those nae wise enow ta realize th' yuir uniform means little bu' th' thou art a servant ta th' community an' 'old little sincere concern beyond th' thee appear ast righteous an' all knowin'. Madame, were thee ta truly be concerned
wi' th' sport an' ta community, thee wouldst nae predicate yuir resignation upon wh' Ah may or may nae do bu' wouldst resign afore thee make further flawed rulings an' bring ta sport itself ta th' verra brink o' ta abyss.
Master Evermeadow,
Though Ah do thank ye fer makin' known ta th' community thine rulin' in th' matter, tis 'oped thee shall reconsider an' nae cast aside th' traditions.
Ah also renew mine request th' thee make known unta th' community thine reasons fer th' penalty thee didst lay upon th' Overlord in ta matter 'o th' now deceased former Baron, Lord Daryl Kyle. Wast th' ast well an' official rulin', sir? If so, ta community shouldst be apprised for in it dost affect anna future situation an' anna wh' may in future garner ta mantle.
Master Starke,
Thee bu' dig thineself a deeper 'ole wi' yuir mos' recent jottings. Were thee nae bothered by ta challenge, sirrah, thee wouldst nae hae made an' attempt ta sully th' 'onor an' integrity 'o Simini. Be thou so ignorant ta believe hae e'en such ast Simini, one whom Ah 'old ast friend, hae issued improper challenge, th' Ah wouldst nae hae brought ta matter ta light?
Tis rather amusin' ta read th' thee hae pondered th' loss 'o yuir title, nae long after garnerin' it. Be th' line a'formin' e'en now, Starke? Be th' 'eat rising ta test yuir mettle, lout?
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 19 Apr 2000 01:19:45 EDT
G'nort,
Perhaps tis indeed time fer thee ta take a wee trip ast wast commented upon by some in ta basement. If'n thee feel yuir in a schoolyard perhaps thee might offer yuir services ta th' orphanage. Were it left ta thee, sir, thee wouldst hae Madame Silvertree ta believin' she be other th' a worthless, whinin', snivelin' wench wh' hae proven yet again th' she wh' hae made repeated claims ta nae only know ta 'istories wouldst th' they be 'onored,
ast well ast th' traditions hae again shown she hae nae anna true sense 'o either.
Perhaps tis th' she wast ignorant enow ta garner infermation from those ast ignorant as she? Perhaps th' be 'er excuse. She be rather adept at makin' excuses fer 'er perfidy, yet though ignorance canst be excused, stupidity canna. T'would seem th' again, Madame Silvertree o'erstepped 'erself, 'ow verra much expected th' be. Ah shall nae be so rude ast ta suggest thee stuff a sock in it, G'nort, bu' Ah shall also remind thee, though thou hast been
long a member 'o th' community, thee hae nae been appointed ast elder statemen nor be cognizant 'o much wh' transpires both within an' without ta basement.
Madame Silvertree,
Since tis already been shown by thee th' thee hae nae anna inklin' atall 'o ta traditions an' little true understandin' 'o th' sport save th' thee wouldst seem agin ta wish ta ram down anothers throat yuir own flawed codes, tis thee do bu' little ta enhance either ta sport or ta traditions.
Tis vastly amusing thine sweepin' an' ast usual flawed statement th' everyone knows somethin'. Were th' true, Madame, thee would hae known ta traditions an' nae made yuir rulin' in ta matter 'o Master Starke.
What 'onor may hae once resided within thee, Madame, thee hae long since flung aside. Thine whinin' an' carpin' bu' sounds like th' yammerin' 'o a spoiled, ill bred child wh' hae been sat in a corner. Madame, tis perhaps those nae wise enow ta realize th' yuir uniform means little bu' th' thou art a servant ta th' community an' 'old little sincere concern beyond th' thee appear ast righteous an' all knowin'. Madame, were thee ta truly be concerned
wi' th' sport an' ta community, thee wouldst nae predicate yuir resignation upon wh' Ah may or may nae do bu' wouldst resign afore thee make further flawed rulings an' bring ta sport itself ta th' verra brink o' ta abyss.
Master Evermeadow,
Though Ah do thank ye fer makin' known ta th' community thine rulin' in th' matter, tis 'oped thee shall reconsider an' nae cast aside th' traditions.
Ah also renew mine request th' thee make known unta th' community thine reasons fer th' penalty thee didst lay upon th' Overlord in ta matter 'o th' now deceased former Baron, Lord Daryl Kyle. Wast th' ast well an' official rulin', sir? If so, ta community shouldst be apprised for in it dost affect anna future situation an' anna wh' may in future garner ta mantle.
Master Starke,
Thee bu' dig thineself a deeper 'ole wi' yuir mos' recent jottings. Were thee nae bothered by ta challenge, sirrah, thee wouldst nae hae made an' attempt ta sully th' 'onor an' integrity 'o Simini. Be thou so ignorant ta believe hae e'en such ast Simini, one whom Ah 'old ast friend, hae issued improper challenge, th' Ah wouldst nae hae brought ta matter ta light?
Tis rather amusin' ta read th' thee hae pondered th' loss 'o yuir title, nae long after garnerin' it. Be th' line a'formin' e'en now, Starke? Be th' 'eat rising ta test yuir mettle, lout?
Jonalyn Starfare