((Rules Discussions))

[DoF Archive]

Date: 5/20/1998 7:12 PM Central Daylight Time
From: RDI Wolf

Rules Discussion Within each FFGF sponsored folder on the Rings of Honor message board, there is a thread called ((Rules Discussion)) and posts within this thread will pertain only to contructive discussions, suggestions, questions or comments regarding the rules this will be the place for this type of discussion. Gaming systems should not be mentioned or discussed. Such references will be removed from the Dueling Center/Rings of Honor area. This includes folders/posts that support and promote dice based systems, and other rules based systems as well as posts of logs including dice use. Any reference to or mention of dice, dice rolling, the AOL dice roller results, SM (Slave Matches), DM (Death Matches), etc. fall under this category, and posts containing such references will be removed.Please use the OOC/Guestbook Thread for other OOC, storyline and pertinent information.


~RDI WolfEpic Adventures/FFGF Message Board Supervisor

[DoF Archive]

Date: 5/24/1998 2:54 PM Central Daylight Time
From: RDI Wolf

Just some additional information about this thread:The ((Rules Discussion)) thread was created for, and is to be used only for pertinent, constructive discussions, suggestions, questions or comments regarding the rules this will be the place for this type of discussion. PLEASE NOTE: OOC topics on anything other than the rules discussion in this folder may be discussed in the folders such as ((Players Helping Players)) and ((Incoherent Thoughts II)) located on the message board, FFGF Community Messaging. The Rules Discussion Thread is not the place for them.IC posting does not belong in either the OOC Thread or in an OOC Folder. An OOC Thread/Folder, as far as the character is concerned, does not exist. To post IC in those areas is effectively the same as posting OOC in an IC area. Either way, such postings will be removed as inappropriate to the area posted.Random, off-topic OOC chat belongs in the OOC folders. It does not belong in the IC folders. If you want to be able to chat OOC with the other writers in your folder -- why not start your own, internal OOC mailing string? That way, you have even less chance of posting something OOC that starts a flame session from an intruding player. Every one of you can probably name folks that have been hurt by a posted flame session. No one deserves that,and such sessions usually happen in OOC, non-story line related posts.


~RDI WolfEpic Adventures/FFGF Message Board Supervisor

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/3/1998 2:19 PM Central Daylight Time
From: SpifyMcBng

Look at the ideas fly.



::ahem::



I have one... what about making Opals fight via the Diamond Rule? Surely no one who simply wishes to have an Opal for RP reasons alone will mind, and that's the reason they were created. The upside is that anyone who tends to hammer the fancies and feints down on anyone might think again before challenging for an Opal just to do it.. and that's a definite plus.



Thoughts?



Spiffy

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/3/1998 3:15 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Goldglo

::reads:: Makes sense to me. I like it.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/4/1998 2:44 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Zalenar

I agree with Goon. I think think that is a great idea and should be pushed forward to get put into enactment.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/6/1998 10:26 PM Central Daylight Time
From: LordRannos

So then, what's the difference between the Diamond and an Opal?Why not just impose the Diamond rule on everyone?Or better yet, do away with feints and fancies altogether. Nobody seems to like them anyway.By the way, we just had a rules discussion and new rules implemtented last fall. Isn't this a little soon to be proposing further rule changes?Rannos' mun (and Ringo's mun as well)

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/6/1998 11:33 PM Central Daylight Time
From: ShanniCltn

I guess the difference between the Diamond and the Opal, is that one can disappear for a few months, and no one cares. No, I'm wrong - either can do that. Just that one can be challenged when that happens.In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to impose any restrictions on someone purporting to be a champion, because they'd have the class and grace not to bury a journeyman. But that's asking a lot in the world we *do* live in. My point? Put any restrictions you want, 'cause there'll always be someone who doesn't like it. The real competitors win regardless of it. And don't think these things aren't noticed. And remembered.~ShannonIce Dancer & Emerald

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/7/1998 1:27 AM Central Daylight Time
From: RDI Goon

<<The real competitors win regardless of it.>>



That's where the idea for the rule came from. That's my motivation for bringing it forward. If the Opals can't handle it, then they don't deserve the rank. And hopefully, it'll weed out at least a few of the unworthy, the classless, the.. you get the point, I think.



Spiffy

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/7/1998 11:29 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Karye PezD

No matter what restrictions you do or don't put on the Opals, you can look to DoS for the truth as to what will happen- the onus for removing anyone that does a poor job of representing the title will fall to the Emeralds, and the Emeralds only.



-Karye's shadow

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/7/1998 1:40 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Goldglo

If Goon's idea is implemented, there would still be differences between the Diamond and Opals; one difference being that the Opal holders have role-playable "powers" that the Diamond does not. Thus, they have the opportunity to role-play unique and special abilities while they duel (and even while they do not) that duelers of any other rank are not able to take advantage of. Duelers (Emeralds) to not have to wait for the DQ to tryand obtain an Opal; but can challenge at any time as long as they are maintain accordance with the rules. The Diamond is still the champion of the sport and the Opals are not; thus, the Diamond still retains the mark of supreme DoF champion for as long as the holder bears it. The puropose behind the Diamond rule, as I see it, is to keep the Diamond from using every one of their modifiers on the lower ranks [thus increasing their chances of easy(ier) wins]. To the experienced player (which, usually, the Diamond is), the restriction should not be too much of a hinderance. Likewise, the Opals (who also for the most part are experienced players....for they have reached the rank of Emerald and won a challenge match or,in the case of the first-generation Opals, placed high in the Diamond Quest) should not find a similar restriction a great disadvantage to their dueling skills. As to why DoF officials do not place the restriction on everyone...theoretically, the Glasses and Jades are the less expereinced players. This does not always hold in practice and some very experienced duelers never move out of the lower ranks. Allowing the lower ranks full use of their modifiers theoretically allows them to promote faster and easier, as well as giving them a reward for their promotion. Some duelers choose not to make use oftheir modifiers, some tend to make full and widespread use on duelers regardless of rank. I think that saying "nobody seems to like them [modifiers] anyway" is going a bit far. Some duelers may not use them, yes. But I know others who like them, shall we say, extremely well. This thread was created and designed for ideas on the rules. It doesn't matter when the last discuission or changes were made; there is no rule stating that people must wait a certain period of time before proposing new ideas. Whatever ideas are placed in this thread may or may not be considered by the DoF staff; and they may be considered before or during the next "official" rules discussion. I would encourage anyone with an idea to post inthis thread; that is what it was created for. Not everyone may like what is proposed, but this folder is designed for discussion and for our use at anytime. I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of its presence. --Matt

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/8/1998 9:38 AM Central Daylight Time
From: Kelli Elan

I think the idea has merit.Should we wish to consider further changes to the rules at some time, I think this suggestion would be worth thinking about.Kelli

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/8/1998 10:35 AM Central Daylight Time
From: NovaShayde

I'm going to have to agree whole-heartedly with Matt. The concept of official rules discussion is a bit odd to me. If something doesn't work or there's a way to make something work better, you don't wait until the next scheduled maintenance to get it fixed, you add the oil to the rusty joint and get it moving smoothly. I would imagine, if the DoF supervisor wanted to look at this idea and say "Hey, this is a really good idea" (whichit is) and then say "I'm going to implement it now, send out the updates," he should be well within his abilities to do just that. I'm sure there's probably some archaic rule in the FFGF that states Thou Shalt Not Change Rules More Than Once a Year, but this isn't really changing the rules per se. As I said, it's more like adding oil to the old (or, in the case of Opals, very new) mechanics to get it flowing a bit smoother. The Opals are new, they're more than likely still on trial in the public eye, so why not make things a little more plausible. Restricting the number of mods an Opal can use, just like the Diamond, helps set apart the rank from the Emeralds. It was asked "Then what would be the difference between Opals and Diamond?",Matt expressed the differences very well in his post, and I'm going to turn the question around: "What's the difference now between Opals and Emeralds?" Even though Opals are a challengeable rank with the weight of some RP behind it, they really don't seem like an elite group one step below Diamond... it just seems like Emeralds with a different name and a cool power (though that yellow opal still gets me sometimes). So, why not try it this way? I wouldn't say we're looking to squash a duelists' mod happy behavior by placing this restriction, we're looking to set the standard and show that Opals, like Diamond, are the best of the best and will lead by an example, just as the Diamond. I'll be the first one to tell you that modifiers are the greatest thing to go along with the Opal's powers (anyone that saw the challenge match between IceDancer and Shanniprobably got an idea of how I thought mods would play out with an Opal's powers since I didn't get a chance to show off my ideas while Nova had the Opal... damn those high-honorable ideals). Placing restrictions will, in absolutely no way, take away from the Role Playability or fun of the game. It's merely a way to make the best of the best show what they've got and how they handle it. It won't hinder their ability to win or lose (especially in the Diamond Quest since they're as modded up as Emeralds) nor will it make the DoF any less fun to play in. I'd imagine some of the Opals may already adhere to the Diamond's Rule on theirown and those that don't probably won't have much an argument behind being limited to one fancy and one feint against a Glass, in fact, they may even agree to do it themselves without a rule being in place. In short, it would be nice to see this carved in stone, but given the speed in which "official" rules discussions come about, it would be nicer to see this made a tradition to be passed willingly from Opal to Opal, just as the RP powers of the stone are (or, at least should be... haven't really had the chance to catch the Opals in duels lately. :/)C/NIceDancer, I hardly knew ye...

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/8/1998 1:41 PM Central Daylight Time
From: RDI Rask

Just a quick note. I saw the question "What would be the difference between the Opals and the Diamond?" if this rule was put into effect. I agree with Matt and Nova that Goon's idea is a good one. An obvious difference: Doesn't the Diamond still have more mods than the Opals? Isn't there only one Diamond and five Opals? And since the Opals were *designed* to promote Role Play, I don't see any way this rule would cause a problem.Now, I'm not making this a rule immediately. I like what Nova said in that perhaps the Opals will voluntarily pass this creation down. But when we next talk about the rules, this suggestion will be right there.


RDI RaskDoF Supervisor

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/8/1998 10:04 PM Central Daylight Time
From: LordRannos

I offer my most humblest apologies for opening my mouth. I should have expected the disdain it would cause.I thank you all for reminding me that my opinion is always wrong.

[DoF Archive]

Date: 6/9/1998 5:34 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Goldglo

Rann-- Opinions are neither right nor wrong...they are opinions. Nobody was faulting you for your opinion; just because some may disagree with it does not mean they are levying a personal attack against you. I too have had ideas that in the past have not proven to be popular at all. I may not like it and I may think that I am right and I will be the first to admit that when nobody seems to like what I think on something...it's disheartening. Itsounds as if you are angry or upset because people seem to support Goon's idea despite your arguments against it. There's no need for anger here...this is merely a sounding board for ideas and thoughts. Nobody needs to apologize for placing an idea here nor does anyone need to feel their opinions are unwelcome or unwanted. It will be rare when we all agree on something, but that's the nature of the game and the nature of opinions. I'm sorry ifyou were offended by the support Goon's idea received; I am fairly certain nobody intended to make you feel that way. --Matt