Defense of the Second

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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:01 pm

From: shadowrun@aol.com (Shadowrun)
Date: 04 Aug 2000 07:46:47 EDT

>Again I state, I did nothing that Baroness Angeles was not privy to. Whether
>or not Baroness Angeles requested intercession, declined intercession when
>offered, if I interceded by my own volition, or if she and I agreed on other
>plans entirely; should not be the main concern surrounding this challenge.

Overlord Taylara,

The above statement would seem to vaguely support Milord Tiralis' argument that "more was going on" than previously suspected. I notice that both you and he prefer measured vagueness, however, to unequivocal answers. Ariadne was "privy" to your plans beforehand? You "agreed on other plans entirely" with her? If you believe it is no one's business (a falsehood, but one you are entititled to believe in nonetheless), simply tell us that you shan't
discuss it. If you believe the truth may be shared, please do share it. This intermediate state of vague uncertainty does no one any good.

As to the challenge, it has come and gone. The only issue that remains contentious is this one. Thus, it is debated.

> In my opinion, the main concern is that someone issued challenge to a Loyal.
>Someone that has vacated their title on more then one occasion and whose sole
>purpose was to again vacate a ring to seek yet another title, that of
>Overlord. Oh yes, he has stated that he wished to remove a *unfit* loyal in
>the process, but that was not his goal. His intentions were publicly
>disclosed and I find any Overlord would be lacking if they did not actively
>attempt to thwart those plans. Wouldn't you agree? It would seem by the
>reactions here that I'm the first Overlord to ever intercede against the
>wishes of a Loyal. I believe that inaccurate...

Previously you accused Zen of dishonesty and subterfuge, underhanded and secretive tactics to unfairly wrest the Crown from you. Now you say that his intentions were public from the beginning?

A poor subterfuge it must have been, or not one at all...

> And what if Baroness Angeles had requested intercession? It would be her
>being bashed upon this cork for making such a choice. The insults and
>degradation the Baroness has received since earning her title is astounding.
>Baroness Ariadne has taken her share of
>I was always taught, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say
>anything."

It clearly was not taught effectively; while this missive is a marked improvement over your well known "let me shed some light on your dark world" public letter, it's chief purpose seems to be to say, "forget Ariadne and I, whatever happened there is our business; look at Zen, he's the bad one."

Nothing nice to say, Milady?

With Regards,
Fandral Kurgan
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:01 pm

From: elijahbasiauhr@aol.com (Elijah Basia Uhr)
Date: 04 Aug 2000 16:24:00 EDT

> Again I state, I did nothing that Baroness Angeles was not privy to.
>Whether or not Baroness Angeles requested intercession, declined intercession
>when offered, if I interceded by my own volition, or if she and I agreed on
>other plans entirely; should not be the main concern surrounding this
>challenge.

This is so untrue, because this is the main concern surrounding your involvements in this challenge, Overlord Taylara. This is primarily where this discussion lies because it detertmines if there was indeed "dishonorable" or "disrespectful" intent and action on your part in abusing your rights and priviledges by the title you hold. This is the sole topic that comes to question on your integrety and honor to be considered worthy to continue to
hold the title that you now bear. Do not try to continuously deflect the spotlight of scrutiny into your actions towards another, when you are the one directly in question here.

You are the "Whore of the Crown", Taylara Tyree, and is makes me ashamed to be a member of this community knowing you bear the title known as "Supreme Dueler of Swords". You need not only have your title taken from you, you need to be shanked in a back alley and left to bleed to death while vermin pick at your festering wounds.




~Elijah Basia-Uhr~

Warlord of Swords

Humanity is a virus, I just happen to be a feral strand in this very sick world.
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:01 pm

From: zenithi@aol.com (Zenith I)
Date: 04 Aug 2000 17:11:29 EDT

Taylara Tyree:

I consider your accusation that I was dishonest and deceitful an "action that held impropriety", especially in light of your admittance that I made my intentions very public.

Stefen Tiralis:

Five times in total, and only twice lost due to absence.

But men learn from their mistakes, and use them as learning opportunities. The measure of a man is not how many mistakes he has made, but whether he has learned from them and used them to better himself. Considering we have never met, I find it difficult you find yourself qualified to opine on my fitness.

However, if you are akin to another who shared your surname, I then I would expect no less, as a complete and total disregard for me has been well expressed by another with that name.
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:02 pm

From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 04 Aug 2000 19:08:30 EDT

>Now as for the Loyal Baroness's wishes. Hm... She's still loyal, she was
>cheering during the duel. She didn't even contemplate going Renegade. Does
>that tell us that maybe just maybe there is more to this between the Overlady
>and the Baroness that we, the general public do not know?

I believe several of us already raised this question, actually. Rather pointedly, in fact. I believe the exact question that was asked was why, if she wished (as she claimed she did at the time) to duel the challenger without any Intercession from the Overlord, she remained Loyal after this occurred. I believe one or two people asked whether or not she really opposed the Intercession and wondered, if she did not, why she did not make a bigger deal
out of it.
The question raised, I believe, was whether or not the two of themhad cooked it up beforehand and Ariadne had simply been acting when she said she didn't want the Intercession. I would say, however, that if there was more going on than the general community knew about, then it would seem to cast both ladies in a worse light and not a better one. If there is more to this that we do not know about, there would seem to be some dishonesty
on behalf of one or both of the ladies in question.
Frankly, I don't really think that is the case. I am more inclined to believe that Ariadne sincerely didn't want the Test, Taylara used her perogative as the Overlord, and Ariadne naturally was inclined to cheer on a friend she liked and respected enuogh to be Loyal too. As for why she didn't go Renegade, I am sure that is because she feels that Loyalty more important than what she may feel is a minor difference between them. So I think things are
pretty much as they seem on the face value and that there really isn't any outright dishonesty involved.
Does that mean I think Taylara made the right decision? No. I don't think any Overlord should Intercede for any Baron if said Baron truly wishes to defend their title themselves. I think it only shows respect for the Loyalty offered by said Baron. I don't think Taylara feels that respect for that Loyalty, nor do I think that Taylara is motivated by more than selfish and inconsistent impulses. I also happen to disapprove of certain of her past
actions and object to the fact that she challenged Daelin over comments mostly made by third parties. So I have several reasons to oppose her.
As for Ariadne, the woman is the perfect walking example of why so many people are prejudiced against the younger set of duelists of late. Her behavior and intelligence can be easily questioned and she has tended to display a marked lack of respect for the duels, her opponents, and the sport itself.
Frankly, with only a very few exceptions indeed, I think almost anyone would be an improvement over Ariadne as a Baroness. With only a few more exceptions, much the same is true regarding Taylara and the crown.









Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont

Warlord of the Duel of Swords

The White Duke
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:02 pm

From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 04 Aug 2000 19:36:43 EDT

Lord Kurgan has already responded to the Overlord's missive quite eloquently, but I still feel the need to add a few words of my own. Once more the Overlord's words are a rambling mix of inconsistencies, self-contradictions, and total non sequitrs. She begins by saying that she did nothing that Ariadne was not privy to. This raises strong questions about the honesty of Ariadne's assertion that she wanted to defend her
title herself. By raising these questions, which I have several times dismissed as unlikely but am forced to reconsider again in light of Talara's own words, a specter of dishonesty and treachery is raised over the actions of both Baron and Overlord. Either Taylara and Ariadne engaged in a complete charade the night of the challenge or Taylara has severely misspoked herself now.
After once again raising serious questions about the integrity of herself and the Baron, the Overlord attempts to deflect the debate. She says that their integrity should not be the issue. The issue should be the integrity of the challenger. Well, it was Taylara who brought integirty into the mix by making her accusations against Zen. If she cannot handle the questions about her own integrity that she herself has raised, why did she raise the
question of Zen's integrity?
She also accuses those who disapprove of the events that occurred in the course of this challenge of making unprovoked attacks and tells them that they shouldn't make such attacks. Right in the middle of a series of her own attacks on Zen. She accuses him of dishonesty. Yet she admits at the same time that his intentions were public the entire time. She refers to his intent to challenge her as soon as he defeated Ariadne as an intention to abandon
another title.
She also refers to precedents. She says that those who question her actions are behaving as if she was the first Overlord to intercede for an unwilling Loyal Baron. I don't think this is the case. I know she is not the first, nor does that knowledge make me approve of her actions any more. If I were to commit a crim, I do not think that my claim that I was not the first thief or the first murderer would make me any less guilty of the
crime I committed. While I cannot precisely call her actions a crime, I certainly do not approve of them. The fact that other people have done the same thing doesn't make me any more gently inclined towards Taylara's behavior. 'He did it, I can do it too' is a poor basis for an ethical judgement.
I think that the Overlord is having a great deal of difficulty in expressing herself as she wishes to do. I believe she has misspoken herself on certain instances and that her words should not be immediately taken in the worst possible light. However, I wish to state that her statements continue to be self-contradictory, very hostile in their defensive nature, and very vague as to the exact facts regarding the circumstances.
I would wish to, very cordially, invite her to carefully organize her thoughts. I believe that a coherent statement would greatly illuminate matters and remove more than a few questions about her integrity. It would not make her actions any more justified in my opinion, but it would settle for once and all questions of collusion or dishonesty on the part of the two ladies.







Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont

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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:02 pm

From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 04 Aug 2000 19:53:38 EDT

Gentles,

It shouldst be apparent that the Baroness, Ariadne Angeles wast privy to the plans of the Overlord, Taylara Locklorn Tyree afore th' challenge forein the Overlord hast refuted her own earlier assertions th' ta Baroness wast opposed ta th' Overlord's intercession.

Tis certes ta right 'o th' Overlord ta stand in support 'o a Loyal. Yet th' Overlord hast now exposed herself ast bein' ast untruthful ast be th' Baroness. Tis both be a disgrace ta th' titles they bear an' ta th' ancient blood sport.

Jonalyn Starfare
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:02 pm

From: andrewpyre@aol.com (AndrewPyre)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 18:16:50 EDT

My Dear Sir,

All you do of late is rehash old wounds and greivances and complain about the lack of respect, how the sport has declined, etc. Sir, are you in your dotage where you can only recall the green days of your youth?

Life grows, persists, and the new pushes out the old. The old never likes the process and fight it as best they can. In my opinion this is what is happening here.

Ariadne and Tay are currently targets for the venting of the bile and smoldering resentment. Physician heal thyself.

Your humble servant,

Andrew Pyre
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:02 pm

From: andrewpyre@aol.com (AndrewPyre)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 18:24:53 EDT

My Dear Jonalyn,

My how you rant and the message is always the same. Variations on the damage you perceive being done to "this ancient blood sport"

When are you and your ilk gong to realize that you can't stop what is happening. The young Turks are out there. They don't like you, nor do they like what you are doing. Many of them lack the desire to openly combat you and yours. But make no mistake, they don't like you and when you are one day deposited in the dustbin of history who will mourn your passing? You play with the truth as if your view of events is the only one and that isolates
you.

Instead of being the vindictive bitter self-styled custodian of the rules and honors of this sport why not embrace that which is new and become a part of this wave that can carry you higher then you have ever been, or tumble you broken on the shore of tomorrow's new day.

Your humble servant


Andrew Pyre
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:02 pm

From: andrewpyre@aol.com (AndrewPyre)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 18:28:45 EDT

My Dear Taylara,

I applaud your intentions to once more exercise your patience and try to explain to those who do not wish to understand and will only review your words for an opportunity to exploit their interpretation of what you have said.

The patience you display in this matter is truly extraordinary and well-fitting of the Overlord of this sport.


Your humble servant,


Andrew Pyre
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:03 pm

From: andrewpyre@aol.com (AndrewPyre)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 18:31:36 EDT

My Dear Fandral,

Sir, you damn with faint praise indeed. However, it is a slight improvement on the general level of belicose behavior previously displayed by others.

Your humble servant,


Andrew Pyre
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:03 pm

From: andrewpyre@aol.com (AndrewPyre)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 18:36:39 EDT

My Dear Sir,

How you do go on. Still as usual your remarks are not but another rehashing of your opinions and thoughts. Indeed in places you seem to be attempting to speak for Taylara by attempting to interpret what she has said or will say.

All in all, your posts on this issue are becoming copies of one another. Do try for a bit of originality if you will.

Your humble servant,


Andrew Pyre
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Post by DoS Archive » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:03 pm

From: shadowrun@aol.com (Shadowrun)
Date: 05 Aug 2000 21:48:41 EDT

Milord Pyre,

I pray you pardon my frankness, but I am surprised that you comment so vaguely. In the past I have read quite specific, detailed and comprehensive musings from your pen.

Here, you note that I "damn with faint praise" and that I am less bellicose in my written tone.

I would be genuinely interested -- with neither sarcasm nor rancor do I write this -- to read your thoughts regarding the points raised, and more specifically regarding the issues I attempted to address in my response to Milord Tiralis' missive.

Above all your writing leads me to believe that you prize logic, reason and fact above innuendo, passion and verbal evasion. I am convinced that your more venomous words are penned in response to the general state of "unkindness" in our community, as expressed upon this cork.

Therefore, sir, I appeal to your reason and sense of fair play. Many have written with utter contempt for the Baroness and Overlord, and you have responded with a rather fiery, if in my view vague, defense.

I know you are entirely capable of holding forth in a civil and intelligent manner. I therefore entreat you to do so, if only in dialogue with me, and respond to the aforementioned points.

Sincerely,
Fandral Kurgan

Post scriptum: I have taken the liberty of appending two missives of yours which I read just recently. I am uncertain as to whose writings you responded to with these open letters. Please do clarify this, so that the addressed party may respond.

---------------

My Dear Sir,

All you do of late is rehash old wounds and greivances and complain about the lack of respect, how the sport has declined, etc. Sir, are you in your dotage where you can only recall the green days of your youth?

Life grows, persists, and the new pushes out the old. The old never likes the process and fight it as best they can. In my opinion this is what is happening here.

Ariadne and Tay are currently targets for the venting of the bile and smoldering resentment. Physician heal thyself.

Your humble servant,

Andrew Pyre

---------------

My Dear Sir,

How you do go on. Still as usual your remarks are not but another rehashing of your opinions and thoughts. Indeed in places you seem to be attempting to speak for Taylara by attempting to interpret what she has said or will say.

All in all, your posts on this issue are becoming copies of one another. Do try for a bit of originality if you will.

Your humble servant,


Andrew Pyre
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