From: andrewpyre@aol.com (AndrewPyre)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 17:25:34 EDT
All,
I am alive. I exist, such as it is in this realm as a citizen entitled to any rights a citizen may have, or not for that matter.
I do fight in the ring of DoM for those who are interested in that aspect of my life. I am my own person. My views and opinions are mine.
The fact that some of you don't care for these views and opinions is not relevant is it? If you do not wish to deal with me by all means do not. But, if you attack Taylara and Ariadne then you can resonably expect me to take umbrage.
Perhaps some of you might do well to look to how they behave in the realm and mayhaps you may see the face of anger, hate, and intolerance staring back at you. Assuming, of course that your self-image does not get in the way.
Your humble servant,
Andrew Pyre
Results of the 10ths Challenge
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 27 Aug 2000 20:25:47 EDT
Rix.
Were Kalamere or Ian to make public comments about the declining state of the Titles or the Overlord, I would indeed extort them to duel more often and challenge to change the situation.
You do not see me complaining about either, so why should I do anything to change said situation? And, before you bring him up, I have told G'nort that if he truely wishes for better title holders, he should come out of retirement and do something about it.
I do not duel because I no longer wish to duel, save perhaps for recreation. I have never challenged for the sake of holding a Title, nor have I ever challenges for the sake of removing someone from a Title. I have, in every challenge I have issued or considered issuing, done so because I wished to face that person in a challenge match... no more, no less.
My view on matters like this has always been the same. If you want things to change, then act to change them.
Simply talking about change does not cause it to happen.
Take it how you will.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 27 Aug 2000 20:25:47 EDT
Rix.
Were Kalamere or Ian to make public comments about the declining state of the Titles or the Overlord, I would indeed extort them to duel more often and challenge to change the situation.
You do not see me complaining about either, so why should I do anything to change said situation? And, before you bring him up, I have told G'nort that if he truely wishes for better title holders, he should come out of retirement and do something about it.
I do not duel because I no longer wish to duel, save perhaps for recreation. I have never challenged for the sake of holding a Title, nor have I ever challenges for the sake of removing someone from a Title. I have, in every challenge I have issued or considered issuing, done so because I wished to face that person in a challenge match... no more, no less.
My view on matters like this has always been the same. If you want things to change, then act to change them.
Simply talking about change does not cause it to happen.
Take it how you will.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:22:31 EDT
Why should I, or anyone else, expect the Overlord to take offense to Damien's insults? He appears to insult everyone. As far as I know, that could be his way of communicating. Yet we are taken aback when Taylara ignores him. It's as if we admire an Overlord who becomes irate over such petty, sputtered insults rather than an Overlord secure enough to laugh them off.
I trust Taylara will do what she feels is best. If it seemed I was speaking for her, it is only because I felt she need not explain herself.
Deluthan
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:22:31 EDT
Why should I, or anyone else, expect the Overlord to take offense to Damien's insults? He appears to insult everyone. As far as I know, that could be his way of communicating. Yet we are taken aback when Taylara ignores him. It's as if we admire an Overlord who becomes irate over such petty, sputtered insults rather than an Overlord secure enough to laugh them off.
I trust Taylara will do what she feels is best. If it seemed I was speaking for her, it is only because I felt she need not explain herself.
Deluthan
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:43:19 EDT
You don't need to go into a petty rage to make the statement you think better of yourself than to take insults, Deluthan. The simple act of realigning the person to renegade would make the statement.
Not saying or doing anything signifies approval. To me, it only looks as if she approves of being insulted by a "loyal" baron.
Damien has retired the ring, however, and many know I'm quite disappointed. It was a good duel and I looked forward to challenging him for the ring again. All I can do now though is to try to win it back at the tourney.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 28 Aug 2000 01:43:19 EDT
You don't need to go into a petty rage to make the statement you think better of yourself than to take insults, Deluthan. The simple act of realigning the person to renegade would make the statement.
Not saying or doing anything signifies approval. To me, it only looks as if she approves of being insulted by a "loyal" baron.
Damien has retired the ring, however, and many know I'm quite disappointed. It was a good duel and I looked forward to challenging him for the ring again. All I can do now though is to try to win it back at the tourney.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 10:14:49 EDT
"You don't need to go into a petty rage to make the statement you think better of yourself than to take insults, Deluthan. The simple act of realigning the person to renegade would make the statement."
I fear you missed my point, Var. Immediately banishing Damien would have been a rash action, one that signifies insecurity and the "rage" ignited by otherwise meaningless insults--a trait I'd rather not see in an Overlord.
"Not saying or doing anything signifies approval."
This does not apply to most situations. I know I have tendency to ignore or avoid people or places of whom I disapprove--a silent rebellion, if you will.
So Damien retired the ring, did he? He folded much sooner that I expected. I consider this another victory for Taylara, and I applaud her for her wits.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Date: 28 Aug 2000 10:14:49 EDT
"You don't need to go into a petty rage to make the statement you think better of yourself than to take insults, Deluthan. The simple act of realigning the person to renegade would make the statement."
I fear you missed my point, Var. Immediately banishing Damien would have been a rash action, one that signifies insecurity and the "rage" ignited by otherwise meaningless insults--a trait I'd rather not see in an Overlord.
"Not saying or doing anything signifies approval."
This does not apply to most situations. I know I have tendency to ignore or avoid people or places of whom I disapprove--a silent rebellion, if you will.
So Damien retired the ring, did he? He folded much sooner that I expected. I consider this another victory for Taylara, and I applaud her for her wits.
Deluthan Ev'rt
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:10:15 EDT
"I wonder if you would tell Ian or Kalamere that they should duel more, as well."
Ahh, Rix... you see, you aren't off the mark here. Drakewyn has often gone so far as to blame me for the moral decay of our community because I choose not to spend my entire life in the arena, and thus deprive the community of a "good example."
(Don't look at me, it's not MY opinion.)
Regards,
Ian Rex.
Date: 28 Aug 2000 13:10:15 EDT
"I wonder if you would tell Ian or Kalamere that they should duel more, as well."
Ahh, Rix... you see, you aren't off the mark here. Drakewyn has often gone so far as to blame me for the moral decay of our community because I choose not to spend my entire life in the arena, and thus deprive the community of a "good example."
(Don't look at me, it's not MY opinion.)
Regards,
Ian Rex.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: shadowrun@aol.com (Shadowrun)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 14:08:58 EDT
>Immediately banishing Damien would have been a rash action, one that
>signifies insecurity and the "rage" ignited by otherwise meaningless
>insults--a trait I'd rather not see in an Overlord.
The medium is the message, is it?
An Overlord who banishes a "loyal" Baron can do so rashly -- say, because said Baron accidentally sat in the Overlord's favorite chair -- or can do so in defense of his or her honour, when a Baron so obviously insults said honour.
Few could have viewed Taylara realigning the drunkard to renegade as a rash action. I doubt the Overlord would have acted out of rage -- simply out of respect for her station and herself, and as a tribute to her truly loyal Barons that their alignment means something.
It is indeed difficult to choose the most proper path here -- the drunkard most obviously chose his course so as to force a realignment, allowing him to leapfrog the order of challenges. At the same time, I am inclined to believe that the Overlord might have dispatched him by her own blade or by the hand of a loyal Baron, and in the process proven that true loyalty -- and true disloyalty -- are more than technicalities in a rulebook.
The point is not moot. It was a telling, though difficult, choice.
>I consider this another victory for Taylara, and I applaud her for her wits.
Many times in my experience, individuals have been faced with the "clever" choice and the honorable choice; usually, the clever choice is safer, more pragmatic. The honorable choice is just that -- more forthright, honest, and proud.
It can be a difficult balance, I am first to admit.
However, I cannot applaud an Overlord for her wits when the evidence for said cleverness is her silence in the face of an insulting boor who was ranked loyal Baron.
Should she pay attention to every rabble rouser in the peanut gallery? Of course not.
Should she take exception, no matter the price, when one who proclaims loyalty to her makes a mockery of what her truly loyal Barons stand for?
I believe the answer is yes.
Respectfully,
Fandral Kurgan
Date: 28 Aug 2000 14:08:58 EDT
>Immediately banishing Damien would have been a rash action, one that
>signifies insecurity and the "rage" ignited by otherwise meaningless
>insults--a trait I'd rather not see in an Overlord.
The medium is the message, is it?
An Overlord who banishes a "loyal" Baron can do so rashly -- say, because said Baron accidentally sat in the Overlord's favorite chair -- or can do so in defense of his or her honour, when a Baron so obviously insults said honour.
Few could have viewed Taylara realigning the drunkard to renegade as a rash action. I doubt the Overlord would have acted out of rage -- simply out of respect for her station and herself, and as a tribute to her truly loyal Barons that their alignment means something.
It is indeed difficult to choose the most proper path here -- the drunkard most obviously chose his course so as to force a realignment, allowing him to leapfrog the order of challenges. At the same time, I am inclined to believe that the Overlord might have dispatched him by her own blade or by the hand of a loyal Baron, and in the process proven that true loyalty -- and true disloyalty -- are more than technicalities in a rulebook.
The point is not moot. It was a telling, though difficult, choice.
>I consider this another victory for Taylara, and I applaud her for her wits.
Many times in my experience, individuals have been faced with the "clever" choice and the honorable choice; usually, the clever choice is safer, more pragmatic. The honorable choice is just that -- more forthright, honest, and proud.
It can be a difficult balance, I am first to admit.
However, I cannot applaud an Overlord for her wits when the evidence for said cleverness is her silence in the face of an insulting boor who was ranked loyal Baron.
Should she pay attention to every rabble rouser in the peanut gallery? Of course not.
Should she take exception, no matter the price, when one who proclaims loyalty to her makes a mockery of what her truly loyal Barons stand for?
I believe the answer is yes.
Respectfully,
Fandral Kurgan
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: ianmackenzie@aol.com (Ian MacKenzie)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 14:39:11 EDT
"Should she take exception, no matter the price, when one who proclaims loyalty to her makes a mockery of what her truly loyal Barons stand for?
I believe the answer is yes."
But Fandral, my friend, you have a belief system. I regret to say that I question whether the Overlord shares this trait.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
Date: 28 Aug 2000 14:39:11 EDT
"Should she take exception, no matter the price, when one who proclaims loyalty to her makes a mockery of what her truly loyal Barons stand for?
I believe the answer is yes."
But Fandral, my friend, you have a belief system. I regret to say that I question whether the Overlord shares this trait.
Regards,
Ian Rex.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:09:33 EDT
Ian.
Not too long ago, you went on a rampage about Loyal Barons not acting to defend the Overlord they were Loyal to. You proclaimed your distaste for such actions upon multiple occasions and even spoke of removing some of their number. I even have records which indicate you dueled a number of your fellow Warlords, presumably in a quest to gain the required wins to be able to challenge.
Then, you simply stopped. The arguement of the moment disappeared into the history books as so many others have, and nothing more was done.
I do not expect you or anyone else to "spend their entire life in the Arena." What I do expect is people who wish change to actually work to engineer that change.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 28 Aug 2000 16:09:33 EDT
Ian.
Not too long ago, you went on a rampage about Loyal Barons not acting to defend the Overlord they were Loyal to. You proclaimed your distaste for such actions upon multiple occasions and even spoke of removing some of their number. I even have records which indicate you dueled a number of your fellow Warlords, presumably in a quest to gain the required wins to be able to challenge.
Then, you simply stopped. The arguement of the moment disappeared into the history books as so many others have, and nothing more was done.
I do not expect you or anyone else to "spend their entire life in the Arena." What I do expect is people who wish change to actually work to engineer that change.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: flavorlessgum@aol.com (Flavorless Gum)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 17:59:32 EDT
>I fear you missed my point, Var. Immediately banishing Damien would have
>been a rash action, one that signifies insecurity and the "rage" ignited by
>otherwise meaningless insults--a trait I'd rather not see in an Overlord.
Pllllllllease.
If she would have banished Damien, you'd be the first one on the corkboard saying how admirable it was of Taylara to have the courage to banish Damien.
Whatever Taylara does, no matter how stupid or wrong it is, goes right pass you.
Passiveness in a baron-That's one thing I can't stand.
Dustin Manjahcapery
Baron of the Seventh Ring
Holder of the Yellow Opal, Moonberyl.
Date: 28 Aug 2000 17:59:32 EDT
>I fear you missed my point, Var. Immediately banishing Damien would have
>been a rash action, one that signifies insecurity and the "rage" ignited by
>otherwise meaningless insults--a trait I'd rather not see in an Overlord.
Pllllllllease.
If she would have banished Damien, you'd be the first one on the corkboard saying how admirable it was of Taylara to have the courage to banish Damien.
Whatever Taylara does, no matter how stupid or wrong it is, goes right pass you.
Passiveness in a baron-That's one thing I can't stand.
Dustin Manjahcapery
Baron of the Seventh Ring
Holder of the Yellow Opal, Moonberyl.
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 28 Aug 2000 20:10:07 EDT
>If she would have banished Damien, you'd be the first one on the corkboard
>saying how admirable it was of Taylara to have the courage to banish Damien.
>
Actually, knowing Deluthan way better than you, I'd beg to differ. I believe you should reconsider your *assumptions*, Dustin.
~ Derek
Date: 28 Aug 2000 20:10:07 EDT
>If she would have banished Damien, you'd be the first one on the corkboard
>saying how admirable it was of Taylara to have the courage to banish Damien.
>
Actually, knowing Deluthan way better than you, I'd beg to differ. I believe you should reconsider your *assumptions*, Dustin.
~ Derek
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 29 Aug 2000 01:10:17 EDT
>Passiveness in a baron-That's one thing I can't stand.
I suppose that makes me the kettle, and you the pot.
Furthermore, under the circumstances, I can't see myself complimenting Taylara had she swiftly banished Damien.
Deluthan
Date: 29 Aug 2000 01:10:17 EDT
>Passiveness in a baron-That's one thing I can't stand.
I suppose that makes me the kettle, and you the pot.
Furthermore, under the circumstances, I can't see myself complimenting Taylara had she swiftly banished Damien.
Deluthan
-
DoS Archive
- Archivist
- Posts: 30701
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:27 am
From: leducblanc@aol.com (LeDucBlanc)
Date: 29 Aug 2000 05:42:09 EDT
This would seem to me to be a fairly pointless argument. This is one of those issues with which Taylara's opponents will take umbrage and which her supporters will laud. If you oppose her, it is 'cowardly' or 'compromising her ethics'. If you support her it is 'clever' or 'refusing to give Damien what he wants.' I strongly doubt that either faction will convince the other of the justice of their arguments. Those who
have shared their opinions have done a good job, with the usual exceptions, but it is time for a few people to let go of it.
Personally, I don't have a strong opinion of this particular issue. I cannot call myself a supporter of Taylara. I would certainly like to see her replaced, along with her Barons. With one exception, and that is Unagi, I don't have a terribly high opinion of her Loyal Barons. Ariadne is a disgrace, Deluthan is a lightweight, and Damien makes Ariadne and Deluthan look like towers of firm support. I have a great deal of respect for Unagi as both
duelist and gentleman, but he seems out of place on the list.
All that said, I see no reason to add fuel to this particular fire. I am the first one to throw my hat into the ring in any debate that serves a purpose. This one does not. Despite my oposition to Taylara, I do not see a need to comment on this particular topic in order to find an excuse to attack her. Nor do I see any reason to defend the actions of an individual I oppose.
That said, I think that more of us need to follow Jeff's example. Namely, say what needs to be said and then let it stand.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
The White Duke
Date: 29 Aug 2000 05:42:09 EDT
This would seem to me to be a fairly pointless argument. This is one of those issues with which Taylara's opponents will take umbrage and which her supporters will laud. If you oppose her, it is 'cowardly' or 'compromising her ethics'. If you support her it is 'clever' or 'refusing to give Damien what he wants.' I strongly doubt that either faction will convince the other of the justice of their arguments. Those who
have shared their opinions have done a good job, with the usual exceptions, but it is time for a few people to let go of it.
Personally, I don't have a strong opinion of this particular issue. I cannot call myself a supporter of Taylara. I would certainly like to see her replaced, along with her Barons. With one exception, and that is Unagi, I don't have a terribly high opinion of her Loyal Barons. Ariadne is a disgrace, Deluthan is a lightweight, and Damien makes Ariadne and Deluthan look like towers of firm support. I have a great deal of respect for Unagi as both
duelist and gentleman, but he seems out of place on the list.
All that said, I see no reason to add fuel to this particular fire. I am the first one to throw my hat into the ring in any debate that serves a purpose. This one does not. Despite my oposition to Taylara, I do not see a need to comment on this particular topic in order to find an excuse to attack her. Nor do I see any reason to defend the actions of an individual I oppose.
That said, I think that more of us need to follow Jeff's example. Namely, say what needs to be said and then let it stand.
Duc Percival Marchand de Clermont
Warlord of the Duel of Swords
The White Duke