From: unagim@aol.com (Unagi M)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 22:01:09 EDT
To any and all who are of concern.
The vote of the Council is 5-4 in favor for having the challenge to the Second Ring proceed.
This I post as senior daimyo on Council at this time.
- Miyamoto Unagi, daimyo of third ring.
Decision of Daimyo (barons) Council
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 22:34:28 EDT
I would be very interested as to who voted what.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 30 Aug 2000 22:34:28 EDT
I would be very interested as to who voted what.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: flavorlessgum@aol.com (Flavorless Gum)
Date: 30 Aug 2000 23:05:05 EDT
Well, Cas, I'll speak for myself.
I voted to strip the baroness of her title.
My reasoning? Well, Ariadne fell into the three categories I looked for in stripping a baron/baroness of their title.
1) The baroness broke a simple rule.
2) The baroness has a history of handling challenges poorly. Whether it be not showing up for a match, or this most recent debacle.
3) The baroness is loyal to Taylara, and I don't like Taylara.
Now granted, if this was Unagi in this situation, I wouldn't strip him. I know he's loyal, but he seems cool to me. Also, he doesn't have a history of breaking rules as far as I know.
Dustin Manjahcapery
Baron of the Seventh Ring
Holder of the Yellow Opal, Moonberyl.
Date: 30 Aug 2000 23:05:05 EDT
Well, Cas, I'll speak for myself.
I voted to strip the baroness of her title.
My reasoning? Well, Ariadne fell into the three categories I looked for in stripping a baron/baroness of their title.
1) The baroness broke a simple rule.
2) The baroness has a history of handling challenges poorly. Whether it be not showing up for a match, or this most recent debacle.
3) The baroness is loyal to Taylara, and I don't like Taylara.
Now granted, if this was Unagi in this situation, I wouldn't strip him. I know he's loyal, but he seems cool to me. Also, he doesn't have a history of breaking rules as far as I know.
Dustin Manjahcapery
Baron of the Seventh Ring
Holder of the Yellow Opal, Moonberyl.
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From: cptellisamorgan@aol.com (Cpt EllisaMorgan)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 00:04:17 EDT
Members of the Community,
I should note, that I sincerely hope that Baron Unagi neglected to mention that no intercession will be allowed for this challenge.
I voted that the matter be dealt with in a ring, and without any assistance. I have full confidence that Warlord Magnus will be victorious, and I would rather see that than leave a shadow of any doubt.
Ellisa Morgan
Date: 31 Aug 2000 00:04:17 EDT
Members of the Community,
I should note, that I sincerely hope that Baron Unagi neglected to mention that no intercession will be allowed for this challenge.
I voted that the matter be dealt with in a ring, and without any assistance. I have full confidence that Warlord Magnus will be victorious, and I would rather see that than leave a shadow of any doubt.
Ellisa Morgan
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From: sartanz@aol.com (Sartan Z)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 00:45:11 EDT
My vote was cast in favor of stripping the baroness; my reasoning was that Magnus stated that he wished to face a Champion rather than the Baroness due to her error and, as he was the one slighted, I thought I'd adhere to his wishes.
Sartan
Date: 31 Aug 2000 00:45:11 EDT
My vote was cast in favor of stripping the baroness; my reasoning was that Magnus stated that he wished to face a Champion rather than the Baroness due to her error and, as he was the one slighted, I thought I'd adhere to his wishes.
Sartan
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 01:53:34 EDT
I voted that the match proceed. Stripping and champions are not what these rings are for, and if the original challenge can be carried out, then I would like to see it so. The duel itself will judge whether the Baron still deserves her ring after her apparent mistake.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Baron of the First
Date: 31 Aug 2000 01:53:34 EDT
I voted that the match proceed. Stripping and champions are not what these rings are for, and if the original challenge can be carried out, then I would like to see it so. The duel itself will judge whether the Baron still deserves her ring after her apparent mistake.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Baron of the First
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 06:41:37 EDT
I voted for the challenge to proceed.
~ Derek
Best Baron on the Council
Date: 31 Aug 2000 06:41:37 EDT
I voted for the challenge to proceed.
~ Derek
Best Baron on the Council
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 06:41:33 EDT
>The duel itself will judge whether the Baron still deserves her ring after
>her apparent mistake.
>
So if Ariadne can win one given duel on one given night, that makes everything all better, and to hell with the rules?
That is ridiculous. I at *least* applaud the "no intercession" decision in this particular
decision, but it's rather like being given a treat on a desert island.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 31 Aug 2000 06:41:33 EDT
>The duel itself will judge whether the Baron still deserves her ring after
>her apparent mistake.
>
So if Ariadne can win one given duel on one given night, that makes everything all better, and to hell with the rules?
That is ridiculous. I at *least* applaud the "no intercession" decision in this particular
decision, but it's rather like being given a treat on a desert island.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: cletusgandrfald@aol.com (Cletus Gandrfald)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 14:13:18 EDT
It's a sad day when someone can blatantly disregard the rules of engagement and not be punished for it.
I see three who voted to let Ariadne off the hook, might I ask who the other two were?
Cletus
Date: 31 Aug 2000 14:13:18 EDT
It's a sad day when someone can blatantly disregard the rules of engagement and not be punished for it.
I see three who voted to let Ariadne off the hook, might I ask who the other two were?
Cletus
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:53:36 EDT
>So if Ariadne can win one given duel on one given night, that makes
>everything all better, and to hell with the rules?
>
>That is ridiculous.
Cas,
It is to my understanding that these titles are a celebration of the duels and sportsmanship of this Arena, in semblance of past battles lost and won; not about hand-slapping because of a simple mistake in formality. And if that's the precedent, then it is as out-of-place as the Supervisor's superauthority, and your desert-island simile in this case. It is not my right, nor no one else's on the Council or staff, to rob the history of these titles
of a true match of wills. If people can't see that -- and I do understand that many opinions on this matter are mainly the result of bias -- then I honestly feel sorry for them.
Of course, if the Baron continues to delay organizing the particulars, I shall assume she has no intention of defending her ring and have no choice but to vote her stripped. . . . Now I am curious why a deadline wasn't mentioned in the debate.
Deluthan
Date: 31 Aug 2000 15:53:36 EDT
>So if Ariadne can win one given duel on one given night, that makes
>everything all better, and to hell with the rules?
>
>That is ridiculous.
Cas,
It is to my understanding that these titles are a celebration of the duels and sportsmanship of this Arena, in semblance of past battles lost and won; not about hand-slapping because of a simple mistake in formality. And if that's the precedent, then it is as out-of-place as the Supervisor's superauthority, and your desert-island simile in this case. It is not my right, nor no one else's on the Council or staff, to rob the history of these titles
of a true match of wills. If people can't see that -- and I do understand that many opinions on this matter are mainly the result of bias -- then I honestly feel sorry for them.
Of course, if the Baron continues to delay organizing the particulars, I shall assume she has no intention of defending her ring and have no choice but to vote her stripped. . . . Now I am curious why a deadline wasn't mentioned in the debate.
Deluthan
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From: oortael5@aol.com (OorTael5)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:12:02 EDT
I voted to allow the match to proceed. My reason: I feel that Baronies should be won and lost inside the ring, barring more extreme circumstances. Magnus challenged the Baroness, he should face her, despite his expressesed desire to face a champion.
I don't like Taylara. I don't care for Ariadne much, either. Hell, I took the Eighth from her. But, too many on the Council stated past instances of disrespect on Ariadne's part as reason to strip her title from her in this instance. I feel the vote should reflect only the current situation with no feelings about who the Baron in question is and whether you like them or not. The rule of a one week answer to all parties was, I feel at least, put in
the rules of this Sport to ensure that the challenge progresses in a reasonable amount of time. It was not meant to be, mind you this is my opinion again, used as a means to justify taking a title away from a Baron if he/she does something like neglect to notify the very one who is challenging her of her acceptance.
What Ariadne did was rude and disrespectful. I will not argue that. I do not think however that her title should be taken on these grounds. Hopefully Magnus will defeat her in the ring, as was the intention of the challenge issued.
-Galin
Date: 31 Aug 2000 16:12:02 EDT
I voted to allow the match to proceed. My reason: I feel that Baronies should be won and lost inside the ring, barring more extreme circumstances. Magnus challenged the Baroness, he should face her, despite his expressesed desire to face a champion.
I don't like Taylara. I don't care for Ariadne much, either. Hell, I took the Eighth from her. But, too many on the Council stated past instances of disrespect on Ariadne's part as reason to strip her title from her in this instance. I feel the vote should reflect only the current situation with no feelings about who the Baron in question is and whether you like them or not. The rule of a one week answer to all parties was, I feel at least, put in
the rules of this Sport to ensure that the challenge progresses in a reasonable amount of time. It was not meant to be, mind you this is my opinion again, used as a means to justify taking a title away from a Baron if he/she does something like neglect to notify the very one who is challenging her of her acceptance.
What Ariadne did was rude and disrespectful. I will not argue that. I do not think however that her title should be taken on these grounds. Hopefully Magnus will defeat her in the ring, as was the intention of the challenge issued.
-Galin
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From: verceterixfavre@aol.com (Verceterix Favre)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 18:11:45 EDT
The Baroness (and I use that term lightly) broke a rule.
The offended party asked to face a champion.
I fail to see how anyone can justify not stripping Ariadne for breaking the rule and Magnus not getting his wish.
"I felt that she . . . It is my hope she . . . I feel the . . ."
Let me tell you all this: It doesn't matter how you feel about the situation. What matters are the rules and how the offended party feel about the situation. She clearly broke a rule, but you all give these asinine reasons why she should duel.
Galin didn't even address the situation correctly! This council needs an overhaul. Badly.
-Rix
Date: 31 Aug 2000 18:11:45 EDT
The Baroness (and I use that term lightly) broke a rule.
The offended party asked to face a champion.
I fail to see how anyone can justify not stripping Ariadne for breaking the rule and Magnus not getting his wish.
"I felt that she . . . It is my hope she . . . I feel the . . ."
Let me tell you all this: It doesn't matter how you feel about the situation. What matters are the rules and how the offended party feel about the situation. She clearly broke a rule, but you all give these asinine reasons why she should duel.
Galin didn't even address the situation correctly! This council needs an overhaul. Badly.
-Rix
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From: chadwickvesmont@aol.com (ChadwickVesmont)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 19:17:51 EDT
Please forgive me for speaking out. I am very new to the Duel of Swords and even yet to duel in the ring. One thing is though that for the past week i've been reading the rules and everything associated with the Duels to get an understanding.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but from what I can gather the Baron's Council is the entity that rules on events happening within our ranks. To do this they follow a set form of rules. If one of these rules is broken, is it not the Baron's Council's duty to the commuity to see that the perpetrater is dealt with accordingly? Please clerify.
Date: 31 Aug 2000 19:17:51 EDT
Please forgive me for speaking out. I am very new to the Duel of Swords and even yet to duel in the ring. One thing is though that for the past week i've been reading the rules and everything associated with the Duels to get an understanding.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but from what I can gather the Baron's Council is the entity that rules on events happening within our ranks. To do this they follow a set form of rules. If one of these rules is broken, is it not the Baron's Council's duty to the commuity to see that the perpetrater is dealt with accordingly? Please clerify.
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 19:28:58 EDT
>Cas,
>
>It is to my understanding that these titles are a celebration of the duels
>and sportsmanship of this Arena, in semblance of past battles lost and won
Yes, and in my book, sportsmanship includes being able to follow the established rules of the sport, not to mention the *common decency of clueing your opponent in on the acceptance of challenge!*
>not about hand-slapping because of a simple mistake in formality
The fact you consider failing to send notice of acceptance to the very party that's challenging a "simple mistake in formality" leads one to wonder if you really belong on Council, Deluthan.
> And if that's the precedent, then it is as out-of-place as the Supervisor's
>superauthority, and your desert-island simile in this case.
The precedent, Deluthan, has been to strip the offending Baron/Baroness of his/her ring.
Zen must be rolling over in his grave...the very last opponent in a challenge match in his life gets away with breaking the rules, whereas he has been punished for them not once, but twice..as well as everyone else who had broken the rules of engagement. And many of those individuals had excuses...old fueds, disappearance, unfortunate incidents...
Ariadne has nothing to blame except her own dimwittedness.
> It is not my right, nor no one else's on the Council or staff, to rob the
>history of these titles
>of a true match of wills.
Who said the histories were to be robbed of a match? Magnus would have faced a champion, precedent leads me to believe. And in the instance where a Baron breaks the rules of engagement, it is the right of the Council-the *function and responsibility* of the Council to judge that person's guilt and fate. But hey, that was before we had Deluthan Ev'rt around to inform us of how wrong it was, was it?
> If people can't see that -- and I do understand that many opinions on this
>matter are mainly the result of bias --
If you can automatically "understand" that we all are biased against Ariadne-her extremely
lame transgression couldn't have anything to do with it, now could it?-then forgive me if I "understand" that your opinion of the matter is most likely biased as well-the Baroness in question and you are both Loyals, after all.
P.S.: Why are you so fervent to defend Taylara, yet stood so diligently against someone like Avery?
Date: 31 Aug 2000 19:28:58 EDT
>Cas,
>
>It is to my understanding that these titles are a celebration of the duels
>and sportsmanship of this Arena, in semblance of past battles lost and won
Yes, and in my book, sportsmanship includes being able to follow the established rules of the sport, not to mention the *common decency of clueing your opponent in on the acceptance of challenge!*
>not about hand-slapping because of a simple mistake in formality
The fact you consider failing to send notice of acceptance to the very party that's challenging a "simple mistake in formality" leads one to wonder if you really belong on Council, Deluthan.
> And if that's the precedent, then it is as out-of-place as the Supervisor's
>superauthority, and your desert-island simile in this case.
The precedent, Deluthan, has been to strip the offending Baron/Baroness of his/her ring.
Zen must be rolling over in his grave...the very last opponent in a challenge match in his life gets away with breaking the rules, whereas he has been punished for them not once, but twice..as well as everyone else who had broken the rules of engagement. And many of those individuals had excuses...old fueds, disappearance, unfortunate incidents...
Ariadne has nothing to blame except her own dimwittedness.
> It is not my right, nor no one else's on the Council or staff, to rob the
>history of these titles
>of a true match of wills.
Who said the histories were to be robbed of a match? Magnus would have faced a champion, precedent leads me to believe. And in the instance where a Baron breaks the rules of engagement, it is the right of the Council-the *function and responsibility* of the Council to judge that person's guilt and fate. But hey, that was before we had Deluthan Ev'rt around to inform us of how wrong it was, was it?
> If people can't see that -- and I do understand that many opinions on this
>matter are mainly the result of bias --
If you can automatically "understand" that we all are biased against Ariadne-her extremely
lame transgression couldn't have anything to do with it, now could it?-then forgive me if I "understand" that your opinion of the matter is most likely biased as well-the Baroness in question and you are both Loyals, after all.
P.S.: Why are you so fervent to defend Taylara, yet stood so diligently against someone like Avery?
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 31 Aug 2000 20:05:44 EDT
Realizing his error, the Roman approaches to write his signature on his missive.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 31 Aug 2000 20:05:44 EDT
Realizing his error, the Roman approaches to write his signature on his missive.
Cassius Gaius Maximius