From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 01 Sep 2000 16:28:11 EDT
Oh Cas, where to begin. . . .
"Deluthan, the moment a 'certain member of the community' issues challenge to another 'certain member of the community' who happens to hold title...it become the community's business."
If you had a score to settle with a certain Baron, would you appreciate others involving themselves in your challenge? I sure as hell wouldn't.
"Del, in your homeland, are murderers and thieves allowed to kill and steal because it's 'not the authorities's business'?"
Oh, you mean like they do around here? The distinction is, those are laws, these are rules.
"No Baron should ever feel that anything involving their ring and their barony is a private affair . . ."
I consider any challenge to be a private affair. The barony and stance, however, are public station.
"Oh, and Del...in the case of a rulebreaker, the way the ring was 'meant to be lost' is by stripping."
A nice twist on my words, but a Baronial ring is meant to be lost in the ring, nowhere else, and there is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that this is true.
"By the way, you seem to be implying that past Barons who have been stripped of their rings were afraid to defend."
I said something along the lines of "not intending to defend" which could be any number of things; like they can't, they're afraid, they don't give a rat's ass, what have you. If you only got "they're afraid" out of it, then I suggest you open your mind a bit more.
"Would you care to enlighten me and whoever cares to take the time to read this about those facets? I'd sure be interested in hearing this."
No, frankly. I'm not going to stand here and dissect my value system, and risk insulting a man I knew nothing of on a personal level. Some things are best kept out of public view, personal things.
"Where was this attitude to 'let them fight' when Lucian was before Council for missing a challenge match against you-by the way, he had to handle a blood fued, if I remember correctly, Ariadne was just being vacantheaded--and you were demanding he be stripped?"
I must say, I'm surprised I missed this question, because I had been expecting you to ask it. I'll be the first to admit it, that whole challenge was a mistake, as was signified by my blistering defeat at the hands of the Warbird -- this also goes to enforce my theory that the duel is the best judge. And I wasn't demanding him stripped; I wasn't demanding anything. My reason for turning the matter over to the Council was due to just inexperience
and my emotional condition at the time.
"This is not a unique situation, it is in fact a very cut and dry one. Your blatant disregard for the rules of the sport is, in a word, dispicable."
If it's so cut and dry, then why is the Council even getting a chance to vote on it? And how am I blatantly disregarding the rules when I am exercising my right to vote as permitted in the rules?
"I just hope you know, in addendum, I don't believe you've changed over a year, and I think you've proven that. . . . There is no more wondering and speculating. Deluthan Ev'rt, in my mind, you are unworthy to be a Baron."
And this means what to me? I didn't like you as a Baron either, and you know what statements such as this add up to? A whole lot of nothing.
Your naivety disturbs me, Cas, and if I have happened to neglect something of yours this time, you can list that as the reason why.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Baron of the First
Decision of Daimyo (barons) Council
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 01 Sep 2000 17:07:24 EDT
Jonalyn,
In the event of a wager between you and myself, I would be following the rules quite succinctly, for I reserve the right to retire my station for any reason I choose.
Henceforth, I stand adamant in my decision. You are free to claim me ignorant, however false, for the fact is I know well what the rules state. But there are more to these rules than just the black print. I now refer you to Kalamere Ar'Din's most recent response to Baron Oakenshield, for he spoke on this matter much better than I am able.
Deluthan
The slumping figure then caught sight of a recent missive scribed by one JT, and, after a ponderous head-scratch, he smiled askew and plodded away.
Date: 01 Sep 2000 17:07:24 EDT
Jonalyn,
In the event of a wager between you and myself, I would be following the rules quite succinctly, for I reserve the right to retire my station for any reason I choose.
Henceforth, I stand adamant in my decision. You are free to claim me ignorant, however false, for the fact is I know well what the rules state. But there are more to these rules than just the black print. I now refer you to Kalamere Ar'Din's most recent response to Baron Oakenshield, for he spoke on this matter much better than I am able.
Deluthan
The slumping figure then caught sight of a recent missive scribed by one JT, and, after a ponderous head-scratch, he smiled askew and plodded away.
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From: elijahbasiauhr@aol.com (Elijah Basia Uhr)
Date: 01 Sep 2000 18:38:45 EDT
How about we take the lady Overlord, Taylara, and her idiot loyal Baroness, Adriane, out into a dark alley of RhyDin, steal their crown and baron's ring respectively, and then slice their throats, or maybe just beat them into a pile of goo, while they are away from the protection of the Ward of Gondar, and have another tourney, one of Barons for a
new Overlord, and leave the Baron's ring for the next Warlord's Tourney? Let the revolution begin! Let anarchy rule! It's obvious few little care about the traditions and strictures that govern this sport anyway, so why should we bother? Let's make it a free for all! Last dueler standings can dictate who gets what title for how long till someone takes them out. Better yet, let's just have a tourney every cycle to rearrange the political
heirarchy anyway, 14 prizes up for grabs, if you win it all you get to be Overlord, and then runner-ups 2-14 can choose their baron rings. That's about what they have been treated like anyway as of late, pass them around like the back alley prostitutes of RhyDin's red light district. That reminds me where I first saw Adriane and Taylara in RhyDin Towne anyway, corner of Orc Lane and Black Dragon Street.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
Humanity is a virus, I just happen to be a feral strand in this very sick world.
Date: 01 Sep 2000 18:38:45 EDT
How about we take the lady Overlord, Taylara, and her idiot loyal Baroness, Adriane, out into a dark alley of RhyDin, steal their crown and baron's ring respectively, and then slice their throats, or maybe just beat them into a pile of goo, while they are away from the protection of the Ward of Gondar, and have another tourney, one of Barons for a
new Overlord, and leave the Baron's ring for the next Warlord's Tourney? Let the revolution begin! Let anarchy rule! It's obvious few little care about the traditions and strictures that govern this sport anyway, so why should we bother? Let's make it a free for all! Last dueler standings can dictate who gets what title for how long till someone takes them out. Better yet, let's just have a tourney every cycle to rearrange the political
heirarchy anyway, 14 prizes up for grabs, if you win it all you get to be Overlord, and then runner-ups 2-14 can choose their baron rings. That's about what they have been treated like anyway as of late, pass them around like the back alley prostitutes of RhyDin's red light district. That reminds me where I first saw Adriane and Taylara in RhyDin Towne anyway, corner of Orc Lane and Black Dragon Street.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
Humanity is a virus, I just happen to be a feral strand in this very sick world.
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 01 Sep 2000 18:44:59 EDT
What the hell do you think the Baron's council is for anyway?
If we had to follow the rules EXACTLY, then we wouldn't have a stinkin' Baron's council. There would be no point whatsoever. We are here to BEND the rules.
When I'm Overlord, I'm firing the Barons and making the council decisions. And I don't care what the RULES say if I can't do that, 'cause I'll do whatever the heck I want you freaks.
~ Derek
Date: 01 Sep 2000 18:44:59 EDT
What the hell do you think the Baron's council is for anyway?
If we had to follow the rules EXACTLY, then we wouldn't have a stinkin' Baron's council. There would be no point whatsoever. We are here to BEND the rules.
When I'm Overlord, I'm firing the Barons and making the council decisions. And I don't care what the RULES say if I can't do that, 'cause I'll do whatever the heck I want you freaks.
~ Derek
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From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 01 Sep 2000 19:09:54 EDT
"If you had a score to settle with a certain Baron, would you appreciate
others involving themselves in your challenge? I sure as hell wouldn't."
I would not....which is why I wouldn't neccessitate their involvement BY BREAKING THE RULES...but if I did, then I would accept the judgement of the Council.
Even should they decide to strip me in that hypothetical case...
"The distinction is, those are laws, these are rules."
In their most basic form, there are no disctinctions between laws and rules. Laws are "rules" sanctioned by the government.
It can also be said that the Rules of Engagement are the "laws" of the Duel of Swords involving it's challenge matches. And you're right, there are no laws in greater Rhydin itself. And greater Rhydin itself is such a nice place, is it Del?
"I consider any challenge to be a private affair. The barony and stance,
however, are public station"
Challenges are part of the barony. They are part of the whole package. Henceforth, by your own logic, they are public station.
"No, frankly. I'm not going to stand here and dissect my value system, and
risk insulting a man I knew nothing of on a personal level."
I merely asked for the facets of the sport Avery embodied that you didn't like. Not a dissection of your value system. But I knew you would demure from saying such things if put on the spot. Frankly, you are a coward.
"I must say, I'm surprised I missed this question, because I had been
expecting you to ask it. I'll be the first to admit it, that whole challenge
was a mistake, as was ignified by my blistering defeat at the hands of the
Warbird -- this also goes to enforce my theory that the duel is the best
judge. And I wasn't demanding him stripped; I wasn't demanding anything."
This one I will grant to you. It is good to own up to past mistakes.
"And how am I blatantly disregarding the rules when I am exercising my right
to vote as permitted in the rules?"
Nice runaround, you know well what I mean.
You used your right to vote to thumb your nose as rule and precedent.
"And this means what to me? I didn't like you as a Baron either, and you know
what statements such as this add up to? A whole lot of nothing."
The statement that you refer to-"Deluthan Ev'rt, in my mind, you are unworthy to be a Baron"-was an expression of my feelings and opinion. It was written in a time of anger, granted, but you know what? That's not an apology or a retraction. I stand by that sentiment. If you don't like me as a Baron, then challenge me for it next time I am. I'll even give you the reason I'm not challenging you: I promised a good friend that I wouldn't, and not for
the reason one might think off of a mere glance on that line. And that promise is very trying to keep at this moment.
"Your naivety disturbs me, Cas, and if I have happened to neglect something of
yours this time, you can list that as the reason why."
Cute. You managed to finish it by both insulting me and explaining why you're dodging me. Am I naive because I don't agree with your anarchist bent, Deluthan?
No. If you think simple dismiss someone with a differing viewpoint to you on such issues as rules and order, and when they should be applied as "naive"...then allow me to attach a label as well: You are a child who needs desperately to grow up.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
Date: 01 Sep 2000 19:09:54 EDT
"If you had a score to settle with a certain Baron, would you appreciate
others involving themselves in your challenge? I sure as hell wouldn't."
I would not....which is why I wouldn't neccessitate their involvement BY BREAKING THE RULES...but if I did, then I would accept the judgement of the Council.
Even should they decide to strip me in that hypothetical case...
"The distinction is, those are laws, these are rules."
In their most basic form, there are no disctinctions between laws and rules. Laws are "rules" sanctioned by the government.
It can also be said that the Rules of Engagement are the "laws" of the Duel of Swords involving it's challenge matches. And you're right, there are no laws in greater Rhydin itself. And greater Rhydin itself is such a nice place, is it Del?
"I consider any challenge to be a private affair. The barony and stance,
however, are public station"
Challenges are part of the barony. They are part of the whole package. Henceforth, by your own logic, they are public station.
"No, frankly. I'm not going to stand here and dissect my value system, and
risk insulting a man I knew nothing of on a personal level."
I merely asked for the facets of the sport Avery embodied that you didn't like. Not a dissection of your value system. But I knew you would demure from saying such things if put on the spot. Frankly, you are a coward.
"I must say, I'm surprised I missed this question, because I had been
expecting you to ask it. I'll be the first to admit it, that whole challenge
was a mistake, as was ignified by my blistering defeat at the hands of the
Warbird -- this also goes to enforce my theory that the duel is the best
judge. And I wasn't demanding him stripped; I wasn't demanding anything."
This one I will grant to you. It is good to own up to past mistakes.
"And how am I blatantly disregarding the rules when I am exercising my right
to vote as permitted in the rules?"
Nice runaround, you know well what I mean.
You used your right to vote to thumb your nose as rule and precedent.
"And this means what to me? I didn't like you as a Baron either, and you know
what statements such as this add up to? A whole lot of nothing."
The statement that you refer to-"Deluthan Ev'rt, in my mind, you are unworthy to be a Baron"-was an expression of my feelings and opinion. It was written in a time of anger, granted, but you know what? That's not an apology or a retraction. I stand by that sentiment. If you don't like me as a Baron, then challenge me for it next time I am. I'll even give you the reason I'm not challenging you: I promised a good friend that I wouldn't, and not for
the reason one might think off of a mere glance on that line. And that promise is very trying to keep at this moment.
"Your naivety disturbs me, Cas, and if I have happened to neglect something of
yours this time, you can list that as the reason why."
Cute. You managed to finish it by both insulting me and explaining why you're dodging me. Am I naive because I don't agree with your anarchist bent, Deluthan?
No. If you think simple dismiss someone with a differing viewpoint to you on such issues as rules and order, and when they should be applied as "naive"...then allow me to attach a label as well: You are a child who needs desperately to grow up.
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 02 Sep 2000 16:55:50 EDT
"And greater Rhydin itself is such a nice place, is it Del?"
It has its moments. But no, I wouldn't go so far as to compare the binding law of a kingdom to the rules of a sport organization.
"Challenges are part of the barony. They are part of the whole package. Henceforth, by your own logic, they are public station."
Challenges are part of the barony's history, but not part of the public stance that Baron takes. When I challenged Zafiroo Turidan for the First, it was due to a qualm I had with his representation of the community. Deciding who would wear the ring was between just us. We had an audience, sure, but that was for the duel, which is to be viewed by the public. The reasons leading to that duel, however, were a private affair. My
example doesn't apply to all cases, since some challengers seem completely indifferent to their chosen target, but I feel it's comparable to the present one.
"I merely asked for the facets of the sport Avery embodied that you didn't like. Not a dissection of your value system. But I knew you would demure from saying such things if put on the spot. Frankly, you are a coward."
If a coward is someone who refuses to risk insulting another whom he barely knows, then yes, I am a coward. I did not feel the need to support his reign. That is a good enough explanation for you.
"This one I will grant to you. It is good to own up to past mistakes."
I shall ask you to avoid the condescending remarks.
"Nice runaround, you know well what I mean.
You used your right to vote to thumb your nose as rule and precedent."
But you obviously didn't know what I meant. The rules grant the Council the right to interpret certain rules, and that is what the Council did.
"The statement that you refer to--'Deluthan Ev'rt, in my mind, you are unworthy to be a Baron'--was an expression of my feelings and opinion."
"Cute. You managed to finish it by both insulting me and explaining why you're dodging me."
I thought you might appreciate that, Gaius. Afterall, I was only expressing "my feelings and opinion"--
Allow me to explain something to you, Gaius. At the same time that it is an expression of your feelings, it is also an insult. Certain feelings I have regarding others, I do my best to keep them to myself, and why? Because they may insult the party in question when I have no intention of doing so. You may feel I am a coward, fine and dandy, but when you announce it in a public venue, or even just to my face, it is an outright insult. And the
fact that you don't recognize that makes you naive.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Date: 02 Sep 2000 16:55:50 EDT
"And greater Rhydin itself is such a nice place, is it Del?"
It has its moments. But no, I wouldn't go so far as to compare the binding law of a kingdom to the rules of a sport organization.
"Challenges are part of the barony. They are part of the whole package. Henceforth, by your own logic, they are public station."
Challenges are part of the barony's history, but not part of the public stance that Baron takes. When I challenged Zafiroo Turidan for the First, it was due to a qualm I had with his representation of the community. Deciding who would wear the ring was between just us. We had an audience, sure, but that was for the duel, which is to be viewed by the public. The reasons leading to that duel, however, were a private affair. My
example doesn't apply to all cases, since some challengers seem completely indifferent to their chosen target, but I feel it's comparable to the present one.
"I merely asked for the facets of the sport Avery embodied that you didn't like. Not a dissection of your value system. But I knew you would demure from saying such things if put on the spot. Frankly, you are a coward."
If a coward is someone who refuses to risk insulting another whom he barely knows, then yes, I am a coward. I did not feel the need to support his reign. That is a good enough explanation for you.
"This one I will grant to you. It is good to own up to past mistakes."
I shall ask you to avoid the condescending remarks.
"Nice runaround, you know well what I mean.
You used your right to vote to thumb your nose as rule and precedent."
But you obviously didn't know what I meant. The rules grant the Council the right to interpret certain rules, and that is what the Council did.
"The statement that you refer to--'Deluthan Ev'rt, in my mind, you are unworthy to be a Baron'--was an expression of my feelings and opinion."
"Cute. You managed to finish it by both insulting me and explaining why you're dodging me."
I thought you might appreciate that, Gaius. Afterall, I was only expressing "my feelings and opinion"--
Allow me to explain something to you, Gaius. At the same time that it is an expression of your feelings, it is also an insult. Certain feelings I have regarding others, I do my best to keep them to myself, and why? Because they may insult the party in question when I have no intention of doing so. You may feel I am a coward, fine and dandy, but when you announce it in a public venue, or even just to my face, it is an outright insult. And the
fact that you don't recognize that makes you naive.
Deluthan Ev'rt
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 02 Sep 2000 17:21:06 EDT
Deluthan,
While I have already pointed out what I feel of the council's decision, I would like to state another place I disagree.
The barony is a public figure. It is, of course, your decision whether or not you reveal your reasons as to why you challenge. However, the public also wants to know, because what you say may determine whether or not they wish to make you a target.
Say you challenged Zafiroo because you don't like how he represented the community (as you wrote, but I'm going to add a bit here to illustrate). Suppose Zafiroo, for example, kisses his sword before every duel, and you think that it represents the community as barbaric. Yes, it is ultimately between you and him as to who will hold the ring during that challenge, but that challenge may further impact someone else's decision to hold a title.
It is why, in my opinion, many of us want to know who voted for what. We want to know what kind of people are representing us - it includes why they challenge, what they vote for, how they duel, etc.
Who stands as victor in the challenge is ultimately up to the two duelists, but when it comes to who will hold the ring next, it involves a lot more.
Does it make you a coward for not informing the community? It really depends on why you chose not to disclose the details. I just disbelieve the notion that you see everything that is involved in a challenge.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
Date: 02 Sep 2000 17:21:06 EDT
Deluthan,
While I have already pointed out what I feel of the council's decision, I would like to state another place I disagree.
The barony is a public figure. It is, of course, your decision whether or not you reveal your reasons as to why you challenge. However, the public also wants to know, because what you say may determine whether or not they wish to make you a target.
Say you challenged Zafiroo because you don't like how he represented the community (as you wrote, but I'm going to add a bit here to illustrate). Suppose Zafiroo, for example, kisses his sword before every duel, and you think that it represents the community as barbaric. Yes, it is ultimately between you and him as to who will hold the ring during that challenge, but that challenge may further impact someone else's decision to hold a title.
It is why, in my opinion, many of us want to know who voted for what. We want to know what kind of people are representing us - it includes why they challenge, what they vote for, how they duel, etc.
Who stands as victor in the challenge is ultimately up to the two duelists, but when it comes to who will hold the ring next, it involves a lot more.
Does it make you a coward for not informing the community? It really depends on why you chose not to disclose the details. I just disbelieve the notion that you see everything that is involved in a challenge.
Var Medici-Giovanni
Proud Father, Proud Husband
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 02:35:25 EDT
"The barony is a public figure. It is, of course, your decision whether or not you reveal your reasons as to why you challenge. However, the public also wants to know, because what you say may determine whether or not they wish to make you a target."
We're getting a bit off topic, but there are reasons people challenge a Baron which are strictly personal. And as much as the public would like to know those reasons, they really have no right to. I respect the fact that a challenger may not want to disclose the information. If the only outcome from disclosing the information is becoming a target, then I can understand why he or she would see no point in it.
As an afterthought, I'm surprised the Arena doesn't have its own tabloid magazine.
Deluthan
Date: 03 Sep 2000 02:35:25 EDT
"The barony is a public figure. It is, of course, your decision whether or not you reveal your reasons as to why you challenge. However, the public also wants to know, because what you say may determine whether or not they wish to make you a target."
We're getting a bit off topic, but there are reasons people challenge a Baron which are strictly personal. And as much as the public would like to know those reasons, they really have no right to. I respect the fact that a challenger may not want to disclose the information. If the only outcome from disclosing the information is becoming a target, then I can understand why he or she would see no point in it.
As an afterthought, I'm surprised the Arena doesn't have its own tabloid magazine.
Deluthan
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 20:45:44 EDT
Baron Deluthan Ev'rt,
Ah mus' say thine rather swift change 'o stance be mos' interestin'. If'n Ah am nae mistaken, t'was thee wh' recently opined th' none were above ta rules, sirrah. Perhaps thou hast altered thine tune in th' ta Baroness wast seated 'pon ta loyal side 'o ta table?
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 03 Sep 2000 20:45:44 EDT
Baron Deluthan Ev'rt,
Ah mus' say thine rather swift change 'o stance be mos' interestin'. If'n Ah am nae mistaken, t'was thee wh' recently opined th' none were above ta rules, sirrah. Perhaps thou hast altered thine tune in th' ta Baroness wast seated 'pon ta loyal side 'o ta table?
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 05 Sep 2000 00:19:01 EDT
Jonalyn Starfare,
You're talking of totally different circumstances. Valentine kept the Council from doing its job months back, which was not the case here. Nothing the Council did was above the rules.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Date: 05 Sep 2000 00:19:01 EDT
Jonalyn Starfare,
You're talking of totally different circumstances. Valentine kept the Council from doing its job months back, which was not the case here. Nothing the Council did was above the rules.
Deluthan Ev'rt
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From: jonalyn@aol.com (Jonalyn)
Date: 05 Sep 2000 01:21:16 EDT
Baron Ev'rt,
Sirrah, the circumstances hae nae relevance ta thine statement, one which thee most adamantly made an' reiterated. None be above ta law, Baron. Thou didst set the former Baroness, Ariadne Angeles above the law, sirrah, above both th' letter an' ta spirit 'o th' law.
Indeed, though ta Council ist assuredly free ta exercise its prerogative ta chose wh' fate they deem befits th' personages an' circumstances, ast well mus' those 'o ta Council face both th' scrutiny an' perhaps ta wrath ast well ast th' blades 'o those wh' 'old th' those 'pon th' Council wh' wouldst laud an' reward lawlessness shall nae prevail.
Jonalyn Starfare
Date: 05 Sep 2000 01:21:16 EDT
Baron Ev'rt,
Sirrah, the circumstances hae nae relevance ta thine statement, one which thee most adamantly made an' reiterated. None be above ta law, Baron. Thou didst set the former Baroness, Ariadne Angeles above the law, sirrah, above both th' letter an' ta spirit 'o th' law.
Indeed, though ta Council ist assuredly free ta exercise its prerogative ta chose wh' fate they deem befits th' personages an' circumstances, ast well mus' those 'o ta Council face both th' scrutiny an' perhaps ta wrath ast well ast th' blades 'o those wh' 'old th' those 'pon th' Council wh' wouldst laud an' reward lawlessness shall nae prevail.
Jonalyn Starfare
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 05 Sep 2000 01:57:12 EDT
Jonalyn Starfare,
"Thou didst set the former Baroness, Ariadne Angeles above the law, sirrah, above both th' letter an' ta spirit 'o th' law."
I disagree. The rules state that a challenge not responded to within a week will be "considered an abdication." Considered by whom? The Council, I would assume. And we considered it, and nevertheless decided no.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Date: 05 Sep 2000 01:57:12 EDT
Jonalyn Starfare,
"Thou didst set the former Baroness, Ariadne Angeles above the law, sirrah, above both th' letter an' ta spirit 'o th' law."
I disagree. The rules state that a challenge not responded to within a week will be "considered an abdication." Considered by whom? The Council, I would assume. And we considered it, and nevertheless decided no.
Deluthan Ev'rt
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From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 05 Sep 2000 06:14:40 EDT
Deluthan,
It is quite arrogant to assume the rules of challenge which have been in place far longer than the barons council or even the barons themselves would refer to such title holders.
Rather, it is more likely the *sport* considers those who cannot follow the rules in abdication of their titles. However, the officials must see to the enforcement. In our previous case, the enforcement was turned over to the barons by the officials. Obviously, the barons did not get the job done, as no penalty was enforced.
Deluthan, I am most curious about something. Was it not you, who stated the barons shouldn't be "butting into" the business of challenge matches? Now you state that the barons are the ones who must dictate how the law is read. Quite the hypocrite, aren't you?
Vithrathien
Scribe for Baron Oakenshield
Date: 05 Sep 2000 06:14:40 EDT
Deluthan,
It is quite arrogant to assume the rules of challenge which have been in place far longer than the barons council or even the barons themselves would refer to such title holders.
Rather, it is more likely the *sport* considers those who cannot follow the rules in abdication of their titles. However, the officials must see to the enforcement. In our previous case, the enforcement was turned over to the barons by the officials. Obviously, the barons did not get the job done, as no penalty was enforced.
Deluthan, I am most curious about something. Was it not you, who stated the barons shouldn't be "butting into" the business of challenge matches? Now you state that the barons are the ones who must dictate how the law is read. Quite the hypocrite, aren't you?
Vithrathien
Scribe for Baron Oakenshield
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From: deluthan@aol.com (Deluthan)
Date: 05 Sep 2000 16:35:17 EDT
As a prelude, I'm not sure if I should be directing this to Vithrathien or Baron Oakenshield, since the signature seems to leave it open who the actual mastermind is. To continue:
"It is quite arrogant to assume the rules of challenge which have been in place far longer than the barons council or even the barons themselves would refer to such title holders."
Therein lies a big problem: the rule(s) was written without the best interests of the Baronies and the presence of politics. So that is why it is best that the Council interpret and apply them to the current status of the sport.
"Rather, it is more likely the *sport* considers those who cannot follow the rules in abdication of their titles. However, the officials must see to the enforcement. In our previous case, the enforcement was turned over to the barons by the officials."
So what is the Council exactly? Just apprentices to the officials? Or do they just allow us to sort of make these decisions to make us feel important, to stay on good terms with the community? A close majority of the officials partake in the sport, so if the decision was so obvious they should have just skipped the middle men.
"Obviously, the barons did not get the job done, as no penalty was enforced."
A penalty was enforced, albeit small.
"Was it not you, who stated the barons shouldn't be "butting into" the business of challenge matches? Now you state that the barons are the ones who must dictate how the law is read. Quite the hypocrite, aren't you?"
I don't see the contradiction. When a forfeit occurs, the Council has no choice but to vote on the matter. If the main duel can still go on, I say let it.
As a final note, and I address this to everyone, this matter involving the Second circulated around a rule based on time restraint. It is in my opinion that, in an era when a Baron is lucky if s/he receives one challenge per cycle, we should be more lenient on time restraints until such a time when challenges become more abundant.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Baron of the First
Date: 05 Sep 2000 16:35:17 EDT
As a prelude, I'm not sure if I should be directing this to Vithrathien or Baron Oakenshield, since the signature seems to leave it open who the actual mastermind is. To continue:
"It is quite arrogant to assume the rules of challenge which have been in place far longer than the barons council or even the barons themselves would refer to such title holders."
Therein lies a big problem: the rule(s) was written without the best interests of the Baronies and the presence of politics. So that is why it is best that the Council interpret and apply them to the current status of the sport.
"Rather, it is more likely the *sport* considers those who cannot follow the rules in abdication of their titles. However, the officials must see to the enforcement. In our previous case, the enforcement was turned over to the barons by the officials."
So what is the Council exactly? Just apprentices to the officials? Or do they just allow us to sort of make these decisions to make us feel important, to stay on good terms with the community? A close majority of the officials partake in the sport, so if the decision was so obvious they should have just skipped the middle men.
"Obviously, the barons did not get the job done, as no penalty was enforced."
A penalty was enforced, albeit small.
"Was it not you, who stated the barons shouldn't be "butting into" the business of challenge matches? Now you state that the barons are the ones who must dictate how the law is read. Quite the hypocrite, aren't you?"
I don't see the contradiction. When a forfeit occurs, the Council has no choice but to vote on the matter. If the main duel can still go on, I say let it.
As a final note, and I address this to everyone, this matter involving the Second circulated around a rule based on time restraint. It is in my opinion that, in an era when a Baron is lucky if s/he receives one challenge per cycle, we should be more lenient on time restraints until such a time when challenges become more abundant.
Deluthan Ev'rt
Baron of the First
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From: sircetran@aol.com (Sir Cetran)
Date: 05 Sep 2000 17:13:43 EDT
>>If the rules were broken, the penalty should apply. It seems to me it's pretty cut and dry.<<
I read your message twice Gim, and I am wondering why you did not specify what the penalty is.
There is not a set pealty, that is why the Baron Council exists and I am echoing several of my betters. Every penalty that you might think should be enforced is just a tradition that was set into the minds of many of the regulars around here, when it come from a forfieted challenge match.
If you think the penalty should be to be stripped for failing to do one of the few things required in a challenge, then it is an opinion and nothing more.
Onto another matter,
Is this a sport or a politition's hall? There are a great many purists here in favor for the rules, following them word for word, letter by letter. But this is a sport with a political twist, and this is where the confusion sets in, this is not a kingdom, there are no wars fought with enemy territories, it is just one-on-one matchups until a victor is named. I think it should stay that way, and if it means bending the rules so I can watch a Baron
defend her ring if I happen to have a night away from my duties as a knight, then I would want that way then to see another stripped title by people who take a sport too seriously.
Kids can be like this too, they whine when the smallest rule is broken just so they can hold some sort of advantage over the other kid who bent a rule to make the game more interesting.
Animals are the best examples of fighters, they don't do anything but fight until one gets what they need.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
Date: 05 Sep 2000 17:13:43 EDT
>>If the rules were broken, the penalty should apply. It seems to me it's pretty cut and dry.<<
I read your message twice Gim, and I am wondering why you did not specify what the penalty is.
There is not a set pealty, that is why the Baron Council exists and I am echoing several of my betters. Every penalty that you might think should be enforced is just a tradition that was set into the minds of many of the regulars around here, when it come from a forfieted challenge match.
If you think the penalty should be to be stripped for failing to do one of the few things required in a challenge, then it is an opinion and nothing more.
Onto another matter,
Is this a sport or a politition's hall? There are a great many purists here in favor for the rules, following them word for word, letter by letter. But this is a sport with a political twist, and this is where the confusion sets in, this is not a kingdom, there are no wars fought with enemy territories, it is just one-on-one matchups until a victor is named. I think it should stay that way, and if it means bending the rules so I can watch a Baron
defend her ring if I happen to have a night away from my duties as a knight, then I would want that way then to see another stripped title by people who take a sport too seriously.
Kids can be like this too, they whine when the smallest rule is broken just so they can hold some sort of advantage over the other kid who bent a rule to make the game more interesting.
Animals are the best examples of fighters, they don't do anything but fight until one gets what they need.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~