From: casmaxim@aol.com (Cas Maxim)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 07:34:07 EDT
The score was 5-2, Jeff. Magnus dominated the duel. It was hardly standout for a challenge match. Let's say..Ariadne was stripped of the ring and they appointed you as the Council's champion, Jeff. I wonder, does one actually think that a Magnus-Jeff match would not be more exciting and evenly fought than Magnus-Ariadne proved to be?
Also, if challenges are "private affairs", as Beron Ev'rt seems to think, then why would be getting robbed of anything, since it's not ours to begin with?
Cassius Gaius Maximius
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 08:21:56 EDT
Elijah...
I refer you to my reply to Lord Stonecutter.
I had hoped that you had become more mature, even-minded and less condescending since your latest return...
To automatically think the worst of others is to invite people to automatically think the worst of you.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 03 Sep 2000 08:21:56 EDT
Elijah...
I refer you to my reply to Lord Stonecutter.
I had hoped that you had become more mature, even-minded and less condescending since your latest return...
To automatically think the worst of others is to invite people to automatically think the worst of you.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: daedragonsblade@aol.com (Dae Dragonsblade)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 11:41:12 EDT
Cassius and Jeffrey,
That's the point that the Council, well
those who voted for a rematch anyway, fail to overlook. Magnus wouldn't have minded a stripping, as Jeff said. Ariadne acted with dishonor. I can understand some rationale, others I can't. Throughout this whole ordeal though, one Baron's words and actions have troubled me. Namely Deluthan.
Baron Ev'rt..If you please, I want to know exactly how voting to strip would be a crime as well. Also, when voting for the rematch did you note these little points?
1) Ariadne didn't respond to the challenge, evidently she knew about it and was around but she (for whatever reasons) failed to answer it.
2) Ariadne had a chronic history of shrugging off and being disrespectful to her challengers.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying that voting for a rematch would be wrong. I think everyone deserves another chance to defend their title, even her. But, she apparently had no desire to do such. The thing about this whole thing was what you have said, you defended her where there was no grounds for defense. She was in the wrong, that is clear. But, you claim everyone elses opinion is biased. However, looking at your own words and actions, can you say
that your own is not?
Consider it.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
Date: 03 Sep 2000 11:41:12 EDT
Cassius and Jeffrey,
That's the point that the Council, well
those who voted for a rematch anyway, fail to overlook. Magnus wouldn't have minded a stripping, as Jeff said. Ariadne acted with dishonor. I can understand some rationale, others I can't. Throughout this whole ordeal though, one Baron's words and actions have troubled me. Namely Deluthan.
Baron Ev'rt..If you please, I want to know exactly how voting to strip would be a crime as well. Also, when voting for the rematch did you note these little points?
1) Ariadne didn't respond to the challenge, evidently she knew about it and was around but she (for whatever reasons) failed to answer it.
2) Ariadne had a chronic history of shrugging off and being disrespectful to her challengers.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying that voting for a rematch would be wrong. I think everyone deserves another chance to defend their title, even her. But, she apparently had no desire to do such. The thing about this whole thing was what you have said, you defended her where there was no grounds for defense. She was in the wrong, that is clear. But, you claim everyone elses opinion is biased. However, looking at your own words and actions, can you say
that your own is not?
Consider it.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
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From: dreystarke@aol.com (DreyStarke)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 13:53:42 EDT
>
>1) Ariadne didn't respond to the challenge, evidently she knew about it and
>was around but she (for whatever reasons) failed to answer it.
That's the thing. She DID answer it.
~ Derek
Date: 03 Sep 2000 13:53:42 EDT
>
>1) Ariadne didn't respond to the challenge, evidently she knew about it and
>was around but she (for whatever reasons) failed to answer it.
That's the thing. She DID answer it.
~ Derek
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From: daedragonsblade@aol.com (Dae Dragonsblade)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 18:04:14 EDT
>That's the thing. She DID answer it.
>
Drey,
I sincerely hope that if Ariadne did
answer the challenge within the alloted time period that Taylara (for that is who started this) would rat her own Baroness out for not responding. Also, I would hope that yourself and the other Barons would have the intestinal fortitude to know that if she answered the challenge, and you saw she answered it COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>within the alloted time period
you all would have rejected the request for this to go to Council, even if it had been requested. Although, if your statement is true, then it should never have gotten that far.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
Date: 03 Sep 2000 18:04:14 EDT
>That's the thing. She DID answer it.
>
Drey,
I sincerely hope that if Ariadne did
answer the challenge within the alloted time period that Taylara (for that is who started this) would rat her own Baroness out for not responding. Also, I would hope that yourself and the other Barons would have the intestinal fortitude to know that if she answered the challenge, and you saw she answered it COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>within the alloted time period
you all would have rejected the request for this to go to Council, even if it had been requested. Although, if your statement is true, then it should never have gotten that far.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
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From: jeffoakenshield@aol.com (Jeff Oakenshield)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 19:03:48 EDT
Daelin,
A small correction...
Ariadne *did* respond within one week's time. However, in her response she *did not* set a time and place, nor did she contact Magnus outside of her letter ta set a time and place within one week.
It was her failure ta set a time and place which should have forced and abdication of station.
~J
Date: 03 Sep 2000 19:03:48 EDT
Daelin,
A small correction...
Ariadne *did* respond within one week's time. However, in her response she *did not* set a time and place, nor did she contact Magnus outside of her letter ta set a time and place within one week.
It was her failure ta set a time and place which should have forced and abdication of station.
~J
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From: gimmzak@aol.com (Gimmzak)
Date: 03 Sep 2000 20:06:38 EDT
Drake,
I simply asked where the Overlord was, given all the hype that surrounded this challenge I was hoping she would be in attendence. As much as I may not be happy with the current Overlord's way of handling things, I wasn't laying any negative personal or other attack upon Taylara.
If my question seemed to imply that then I apologise for it wasn't ment too.
Gim
Date: 03 Sep 2000 20:06:38 EDT
Drake,
I simply asked where the Overlord was, given all the hype that surrounded this challenge I was hoping she would be in attendence. As much as I may not be happy with the current Overlord's way of handling things, I wasn't laying any negative personal or other attack upon Taylara.
If my question seemed to imply that then I apologise for it wasn't ment too.
Gim
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From: daedragonsblade@aol.com (Dae Dragonsblade)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 01:24:18 EDT
Jeff,
Thanks for your clarification. Either way, it just doesn't seem fitting to me that someone can avidly defend someone whose shown they don't want to defend their title.
I mean, sure..you could argue she made a error in writing the letter. But, honestly..who would forget to set a time and date? I'm pretty sure someone who avidly defends her could point out that she forgot it before they had to vote. Even Magnus. I mean, if someone did point out there was no time and date (which I sure *hope* someone did, because if they didn't, then this isn't *totally* Ariadne's fault, except the fact that she was being a bit
forgetful and still should be punished) then she neglected to amend it, she deserves to be stripped. That's telling me she doesn't want to defend the Title, or she thinks everyone will bend to her ways. It's the characteristics of stubborness.
Well....that set aside, can anyone whose defended Ariadne point out their rationale..I'd love to hear it, and I'm sure others would as well.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
Date: 04 Sep 2000 01:24:18 EDT
Jeff,
Thanks for your clarification. Either way, it just doesn't seem fitting to me that someone can avidly defend someone whose shown they don't want to defend their title.
I mean, sure..you could argue she made a error in writing the letter. But, honestly..who would forget to set a time and date? I'm pretty sure someone who avidly defends her could point out that she forgot it before they had to vote. Even Magnus. I mean, if someone did point out there was no time and date (which I sure *hope* someone did, because if they didn't, then this isn't *totally* Ariadne's fault, except the fact that she was being a bit
forgetful and still should be punished) then she neglected to amend it, she deserves to be stripped. That's telling me she doesn't want to defend the Title, or she thinks everyone will bend to her ways. It's the characteristics of stubborness.
Well....that set aside, can anyone whose defended Ariadne point out their rationale..I'd love to hear it, and I'm sure others would as well.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
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From: elijahbasiauhr@aol.com (Elijah Basia Uhr)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 01:58:45 EDT
Drake,
You should long know by now the attitude of this community is that their perceptions of people never seem to change, and once an opnion was garnered that it seems etched in stone. I could go around acting like a saint and I would always still remain in the shadow of the devil in everyone's eyes here. My point is, I really don't care what Taylara does anymore, because in my opinion she has tainted her reign as Overlord, and in my opinion does not
derserve to be Overlord anymore. No one is perfect, but her actions since attaining the crown are not only considered dishonorable to some of this community, but more to the point from my perspective disrespectful to the members of this community. For me it is not about honor, which on a side note I don't think she has any of that either, but more importantly it is about respect for the title you hold, and how you treat the others of this
community, especially as a title holder. In my opinion she has showed nothing but selfishness, disregard for what few loyals she does have, and a manipulative attitude to try to reverse the blame surrounding her actions on those she is in conflict with. And except for a Warlord's Tourney winner she is about to duel, she has abused the useage of the Test of Worthiness in every challenge pressed to her. She's a coward.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
Humanity is a virus, I just happen to be a feral strand in this very sick world.
Date: 04 Sep 2000 01:58:45 EDT
Drake,
You should long know by now the attitude of this community is that their perceptions of people never seem to change, and once an opnion was garnered that it seems etched in stone. I could go around acting like a saint and I would always still remain in the shadow of the devil in everyone's eyes here. My point is, I really don't care what Taylara does anymore, because in my opinion she has tainted her reign as Overlord, and in my opinion does not
derserve to be Overlord anymore. No one is perfect, but her actions since attaining the crown are not only considered dishonorable to some of this community, but more to the point from my perspective disrespectful to the members of this community. For me it is not about honor, which on a side note I don't think she has any of that either, but more importantly it is about respect for the title you hold, and how you treat the others of this
community, especially as a title holder. In my opinion she has showed nothing but selfishness, disregard for what few loyals she does have, and a manipulative attitude to try to reverse the blame surrounding her actions on those she is in conflict with. And except for a Warlord's Tourney winner she is about to duel, she has abused the useage of the Test of Worthiness in every challenge pressed to her. She's a coward.
~Elijah Basia-Uhr~
Warlord of Swords
Humanity is a virus, I just happen to be a feral strand in this very sick world.
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From: taylara@aol.com (Taylara)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 03:09:31 EDT
>I mean, sure..you could argue she made a error in writing the letter. But,
>honestly..who would forget to set a time and date? I'm pretty sure someone
>who avidly defends her could point out that she forgot it before they had to
>vote. Even Magnus. I mean, if someone did point out there was no time and
>date (which I sure *hope* someone did, because if they didn't, then this
>isn't *totally* Ariadne's fault, except the fact that she was being a bit
>forgetful and still should be punished) then she neglected to amend it, she
>deserves to be stripped. That's telling me she doesn't want to defend the
>Title, or she thinks everyone will bend to her ways. It's the characteristics
>of stubborness.
>
>
((Bolding by me))
I have to say something here, Daelin. If you would be so kind as to peruse the Acceptance letter you sent me when I challenged for Overlord you would note that you did *not* include a date and time either.
Quote:
>>> However, I have been prepared for challenge for awhile now. And it seems you are using this as your sole base concrete fact for challenging..whatever the case may be, I will inform you when I am readily sure of my availability in which to complete this challenge. <<<
Baroness Morgan was correct in stating that I did not send her a date and time as well, but I did state that I would contact her as soon as I knew of my availability. But that's no excuse for not including the time and date information.
Out of curiosity, I checked back over other acceptance letters that I have on file and found others that did not contain a date and time for their challenges. So, if I were you I wouldn't be so quick to judge others.
~Taylara Locklorn Tyree~
XXXX Overlady of the Duel Swords
Date: 04 Sep 2000 03:09:31 EDT
>I mean, sure..you could argue she made a error in writing the letter. But,
>honestly..who would forget to set a time and date? I'm pretty sure someone
>who avidly defends her could point out that she forgot it before they had to
>vote. Even Magnus. I mean, if someone did point out there was no time and
>date (which I sure *hope* someone did, because if they didn't, then this
>isn't *totally* Ariadne's fault, except the fact that she was being a bit
>forgetful and still should be punished) then she neglected to amend it, she
>deserves to be stripped. That's telling me she doesn't want to defend the
>Title, or she thinks everyone will bend to her ways. It's the characteristics
>of stubborness.
>
>
((Bolding by me))
I have to say something here, Daelin. If you would be so kind as to peruse the Acceptance letter you sent me when I challenged for Overlord you would note that you did *not* include a date and time either.
Quote:
>>> However, I have been prepared for challenge for awhile now. And it seems you are using this as your sole base concrete fact for challenging..whatever the case may be, I will inform you when I am readily sure of my availability in which to complete this challenge. <<<
Baroness Morgan was correct in stating that I did not send her a date and time as well, but I did state that I would contact her as soon as I knew of my availability. But that's no excuse for not including the time and date information.
Out of curiosity, I checked back over other acceptance letters that I have on file and found others that did not contain a date and time for their challenges. So, if I were you I wouldn't be so quick to judge others.
~Taylara Locklorn Tyree~
XXXX Overlady of the Duel Swords
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From: daedragonsblade@aol.com (Dae Dragonsblade)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 15:59:55 EDT
Taylara,
Seems your rather quick to jump the gun on things I've done. This only further illustrates your limited ability to grasp the fairly obvious. I'm not going to sit her and launch an expidition into the limited space of your mental capacity, so just listen fairly carefully and then answer..
I know that after I wrote that in the letter, I answered with a date within a week from sending the acceptance, Ariadne did not. You probably answered within a week to Ellisa, and so did everyone else, Ariadne did not.
Also, I qoute from the Universal Terms of Challenge to further enlighten you: "Any challenge not responded to within one week, setting a time and place, shall be considered an abdication."
Do you understand now? Here, let me reiterate. Accepting is one thing, yes. Setting a date is another, yes. Most of the time, people do both at the same time. Then they'll debate on whether the date is acceptable to both. However, as in Ariadne's case...she just sent an acceptance, and no date or time even offered, and she didn't make an attempt to have one sent after that or discuss it with Magnus. I did that for you, and you did it for Ellisa.
Oh, and another thing..if your going to bring up something, make it valid. Bringing up worthless fire against me is only going to land you in one place...a ring. I've decided to leave you well enough alone now, please don't make me rethink that. Besides, you're going to have enough problems over the next few weeks.
Have a nice day.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
Date: 04 Sep 2000 15:59:55 EDT
Taylara,
Seems your rather quick to jump the gun on things I've done. This only further illustrates your limited ability to grasp the fairly obvious. I'm not going to sit her and launch an expidition into the limited space of your mental capacity, so just listen fairly carefully and then answer..
I know that after I wrote that in the letter, I answered with a date within a week from sending the acceptance, Ariadne did not. You probably answered within a week to Ellisa, and so did everyone else, Ariadne did not.
Also, I qoute from the Universal Terms of Challenge to further enlighten you: "Any challenge not responded to within one week, setting a time and place, shall be considered an abdication."
Do you understand now? Here, let me reiterate. Accepting is one thing, yes. Setting a date is another, yes. Most of the time, people do both at the same time. Then they'll debate on whether the date is acceptable to both. However, as in Ariadne's case...she just sent an acceptance, and no date or time even offered, and she didn't make an attempt to have one sent after that or discuss it with Magnus. I did that for you, and you did it for Ellisa.
Oh, and another thing..if your going to bring up something, make it valid. Bringing up worthless fire against me is only going to land you in one place...a ring. I've decided to leave you well enough alone now, please don't make me rethink that. Besides, you're going to have enough problems over the next few weeks.
Have a nice day.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
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From: quickvarmg@aol.com (QuickVarMG)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 18:04:08 EDT
I always thought that as long as the match was fought within two weeks of the acceptance, then the challenge was fine. Honestly, I don't see where this sudden "because she didn't respond with a time and date" came from.
Personally, my issue is out of everyone that could be forgotten to inform, how is it that the challenger was the one left out?
Not to sound immature, but "duh?"
Var Medici-Giovanni
Date: 04 Sep 2000 18:04:08 EDT
I always thought that as long as the match was fought within two weeks of the acceptance, then the challenge was fine. Honestly, I don't see where this sudden "because she didn't respond with a time and date" came from.
Personally, my issue is out of everyone that could be forgotten to inform, how is it that the challenger was the one left out?
Not to sound immature, but "duh?"
Var Medici-Giovanni
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From: drakewyni@aol.com (Drakewyn I)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 20:36:33 EDT
Point of Order, Warlord Dragonsblade.
Your statement, reproduced here: "I know that after I wrote that in the letter, I answered with a date within a week from sending the acceptance, Ariadne did not. You probably answered within a week to Ellisa, and so did everyone else, Ariadne did not." By the logic of the sentence, you are stating the following:
One must issue a letter of acceptance within one week of being challenged and must issue a letter which sets the date of said challenge within one week of issuing the aformentioned letter of acceptance.
Having pursued the archives and files on hand, I must tenetively support the Overlord's statements regarding challenges. There have been many with follow the above circumstance, and few which have both the acceptance and the setting of a date done within one week of the challenge being validated.
It has always been my policy to allow every challenge to proceed at it's own pace, unless that pace clearly violates a reasonable margin for error.
That said, if now-Baron Eques had chosen not to bring this issue to the fore and merely made note of it... this never would have become a matter for the Council.
Now, however, a Ruling has been passed down to me... and henceforth all challenges will be subject to the same exacting level of scrutiny.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
Date: 04 Sep 2000 20:36:33 EDT
Point of Order, Warlord Dragonsblade.
Your statement, reproduced here: "I know that after I wrote that in the letter, I answered with a date within a week from sending the acceptance, Ariadne did not. You probably answered within a week to Ellisa, and so did everyone else, Ariadne did not." By the logic of the sentence, you are stating the following:
One must issue a letter of acceptance within one week of being challenged and must issue a letter which sets the date of said challenge within one week of issuing the aformentioned letter of acceptance.
Having pursued the archives and files on hand, I must tenetively support the Overlord's statements regarding challenges. There have been many with follow the above circumstance, and few which have both the acceptance and the setting of a date done within one week of the challenge being validated.
It has always been my policy to allow every challenge to proceed at it's own pace, unless that pace clearly violates a reasonable margin for error.
That said, if now-Baron Eques had chosen not to bring this issue to the fore and merely made note of it... this never would have become a matter for the Council.
Now, however, a Ruling has been passed down to me... and henceforth all challenges will be subject to the same exacting level of scrutiny.
Lady Drake, aka the Gryphon.
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From: taylara@aol.com (Taylara)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 21:07:56 EDT
>I know that after I wrote that in the letter, I answered with a date within a
>week from sending the acceptance, Ariadne did not. You probably answered
>within a week to Ellisa, and so did everyone else, Ariadne did not.
Daelin,
I see that the concept that Baron Oakenshield is trying to stress here is beyond your comprehension. What is being stated on this cork is: That a letter of acceptance which is required within one week of being challenged is not valid unless it contains the date and time that the challenge will proceed per the rules of engagement.
Yes, you sent me an acceptance letter within one week of being challenged, but it did not contain a time or date therefore making your letter of acceptance invalid.
Plus, if you had read what Baroness Morgan wrote you would have understood her to say that she was informed of the date and time via this ancient cork. Though if Baroness Morgan would please check her records for me, I believe she will find that we did communicate on July 27th
which was when the time and date was settled.
As you quoted yourself:
"Any challenge not responded to within one week, setting a time and place, shall be considered an abdication."
You will discover that by Baron Oakenshield's definition you were in forfeit as have been many others before and after this discussion.
So let me reiterate here, if I were you I wouldn't be so quick to judge others.
~Taylara Locklorn Tyree~
XXXX Overlady of the Duel of Swords
Date: 04 Sep 2000 21:07:56 EDT
>I know that after I wrote that in the letter, I answered with a date within a
>week from sending the acceptance, Ariadne did not. You probably answered
>within a week to Ellisa, and so did everyone else, Ariadne did not.
Daelin,
I see that the concept that Baron Oakenshield is trying to stress here is beyond your comprehension. What is being stated on this cork is: That a letter of acceptance which is required within one week of being challenged is not valid unless it contains the date and time that the challenge will proceed per the rules of engagement.
Yes, you sent me an acceptance letter within one week of being challenged, but it did not contain a time or date therefore making your letter of acceptance invalid.
Plus, if you had read what Baroness Morgan wrote you would have understood her to say that she was informed of the date and time via this ancient cork. Though if Baroness Morgan would please check her records for me, I believe she will find that we did communicate on July 27th
which was when the time and date was settled.
As you quoted yourself:
"Any challenge not responded to within one week, setting a time and place, shall be considered an abdication."
You will discover that by Baron Oakenshield's definition you were in forfeit as have been many others before and after this discussion.
So let me reiterate here, if I were you I wouldn't be so quick to judge others.
~Taylara Locklorn Tyree~
XXXX Overlady of the Duel of Swords
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From: daedragonsblade@aol.com (Dae Dragonsblade)
Date: 04 Sep 2000 21:42:48 EDT
"By the logic of the sentence, you are stating the following: One must issue a letter of acceptance within one week of being
challenged and must issue a letter which sets the date of said challenge
within one week of issuing the aformentioned letter of acceptance."
Drake,
Umm. I never said that at all, and in fact, if you read the missive, it says that I sent two letters. One of acceptance and one setting a date. It doesn't say everyone has to do that. I was illustrating my point. In fact, I believe that's the only time I've done such a thing. I don't know exactly what you're trying to say though..But I was just clarifying what I said.
Regardless, that wasn't what I was stating. I told Taylara that *both* my acceptance and my setting of date and time were within a week of said challenge. That was my point. Secondly, it went on to declare that oftentimes this is done in the same letter, however due to my annoyance with the Overlady..this particular challenge was handled differently.
Have a nice day.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer
Date: 04 Sep 2000 21:42:48 EDT
"By the logic of the sentence, you are stating the following: One must issue a letter of acceptance within one week of being
challenged and must issue a letter which sets the date of said challenge
within one week of issuing the aformentioned letter of acceptance."
Drake,
Umm. I never said that at all, and in fact, if you read the missive, it says that I sent two letters. One of acceptance and one setting a date. It doesn't say everyone has to do that. I was illustrating my point. In fact, I believe that's the only time I've done such a thing. I don't know exactly what you're trying to say though..But I was just clarifying what I said.
Regardless, that wasn't what I was stating. I told Taylara that *both* my acceptance and my setting of date and time were within a week of said challenge. That was my point. Secondly, it went on to declare that oftentimes this is done in the same letter, however due to my annoyance with the Overlady..this particular challenge was handled differently.
Have a nice day.
~Daelin Dragonsblade
~XXXIX Overlord of the Duel of Swords
~Defender of the Blue Opal, IceDancer