Date: 12/27/97 11:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Foxxgrrl
::slams a paper written in her traditional black ink to the boards. While it may not be choppy red crayon or flowing jade script, it may as well become her tradition::
Challenge matches are truly disgusting. Whether they've evolved to this state in what the older duelers like to call the degeneration of the Arena or whether they've always been this way is immaterial, because they're this way now.
The duel itself is barely important. Everyone shows up, not for the enjoyment of the sport, but to show off. It can be new clothes, a new opinion, or a new person clinging to your arm. What you show off doesn't matter as long as you show off and do it well. And when you cheer and wince for your contestant, that's just showing off who you're friends with.
Am I here to revolutionize the challenge match or just to whine, you wonder? It's somewhere in the middle, girls and boys. So slap your thoughts up here with mine and let me know I hit the audience right where it counts---their egos.
::stares at the post before signing it:: ~Alanna St. Reynolds
Challenge Matches
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Date: 12/28/97 1:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Rix Favre
I may not be the oldest guy around, but I'm certainly no newcomer . . . Challenge matches should be about the skill of two fine duelists meeting in the ring for the right to hold a distinguished position in the Duel of Swords. My first step into the Arena was taken during an Overlord challenge. I knew little to nothing about the Duel at that time, all I knew was that my Lord at that time, and still someone I call a friend, Valmion, was about to take on one of the greatest of all times, Siera Redwin. I was overwhelmed by the spectacle, and it seemed no one was talking about anything except the match occurring at the time, with the possible exception of myself. If I knewthen what I know now, my eyes would have never left the ring. To me, that is the essence of the Duel of Swords. One duel, two combatants, everything at stake. Watching the dance, enjoying the spectacle, breathing in the history. Now, the challenges happen with too much frequency to be properly appreciated. Anyone who makes Warlord and grabs their ten peer wins thinks they have every right to challenge just for the hell of it. Who knows? Maybe they do, my opinion is they don't. But I'm getting off track. Now, sides are so easily taken during the matches, no one appreciates the skill of the other dueler, just the fact that they are winning or losing. No one cares about a finely dueled match, or the effort put forth, merely just who won and who lost and what side will they take in the political arena. I guess it goes back to my first experience . . . People have no idea what's going on, even though it's all around them nearly all the time . . . Just my simple thoughts that I can't seem to wrap up properly,~Rix
From: Rix Favre
I may not be the oldest guy around, but I'm certainly no newcomer . . . Challenge matches should be about the skill of two fine duelists meeting in the ring for the right to hold a distinguished position in the Duel of Swords. My first step into the Arena was taken during an Overlord challenge. I knew little to nothing about the Duel at that time, all I knew was that my Lord at that time, and still someone I call a friend, Valmion, was about to take on one of the greatest of all times, Siera Redwin. I was overwhelmed by the spectacle, and it seemed no one was talking about anything except the match occurring at the time, with the possible exception of myself. If I knewthen what I know now, my eyes would have never left the ring. To me, that is the essence of the Duel of Swords. One duel, two combatants, everything at stake. Watching the dance, enjoying the spectacle, breathing in the history. Now, the challenges happen with too much frequency to be properly appreciated. Anyone who makes Warlord and grabs their ten peer wins thinks they have every right to challenge just for the hell of it. Who knows? Maybe they do, my opinion is they don't. But I'm getting off track. Now, sides are so easily taken during the matches, no one appreciates the skill of the other dueler, just the fact that they are winning or losing. No one cares about a finely dueled match, or the effort put forth, merely just who won and who lost and what side will they take in the political arena. I guess it goes back to my first experience . . . People have no idea what's going on, even though it's all around them nearly all the time . . . Just my simple thoughts that I can't seem to wrap up properly,~Rix
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Date: 12/28/97 6:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Bended Kne
::entering the arena and reading over the posts that have been placed since his last glance at them::
::noting the two lone posts which seem to stand out more than the rest and in an unconsious gesture of respect streightens his plaid and realigns his pleats::
::Reaching into his sporan and removing a parchment scrap and a quill he pens his response, something uncharacteristic to the usually tight lipped Scott::
To both of you Foxx and Rix, well said! To those who may read these rantings? thoughts? opinions? I tell you that I too agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments shared. One from the "new" and one from the "old", yet both of like opinion.
When I entered the arenas for the first time and dueled my first duel; which happened to be against one of the greatest Barons in tha history of the arena........Ford........, I was immediately taken with the honor, respect, and pagentry tha' surrounded the rings.
Twas a time when the mutual respect for the skills of each was shown and more than not personal differences were set aside in the ring. Twas also a time when those who entered the arena wether for a duel or a challenge drank in every cut of the blade cheering and moaning for both.
Challenges were for the purpose of testing ones OWN skills as well as the worthiness of the opponent......this was exactly the case that I myself had over 40 peer wins before issuing my first challenge for a ring, as well as having been a Warlord for quite some time before doing so....alas this is no longer the case.
I do not condemn change in the name of progression or the bettering of the sport, but this is not the case in the present situation. Political agendas, family fueds, lovers spats call it what you will are now the driving force in the arenas................
::stepping down off of his nearly "new" soapbox and posting his thoughts and feelings::
Heath Duncan Connor MacCormack
Warlord and once proud Baron....until another more worthy of the title,gained it.................. of the DoS
From: Bended Kne
::entering the arena and reading over the posts that have been placed since his last glance at them::
::noting the two lone posts which seem to stand out more than the rest and in an unconsious gesture of respect streightens his plaid and realigns his pleats::
::Reaching into his sporan and removing a parchment scrap and a quill he pens his response, something uncharacteristic to the usually tight lipped Scott::
To both of you Foxx and Rix, well said! To those who may read these rantings? thoughts? opinions? I tell you that I too agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments shared. One from the "new" and one from the "old", yet both of like opinion.
When I entered the arenas for the first time and dueled my first duel; which happened to be against one of the greatest Barons in tha history of the arena........Ford........, I was immediately taken with the honor, respect, and pagentry tha' surrounded the rings.
Twas a time when the mutual respect for the skills of each was shown and more than not personal differences were set aside in the ring. Twas also a time when those who entered the arena wether for a duel or a challenge drank in every cut of the blade cheering and moaning for both.
Challenges were for the purpose of testing ones OWN skills as well as the worthiness of the opponent......this was exactly the case that I myself had over 40 peer wins before issuing my first challenge for a ring, as well as having been a Warlord for quite some time before doing so....alas this is no longer the case.
I do not condemn change in the name of progression or the bettering of the sport, but this is not the case in the present situation. Political agendas, family fueds, lovers spats call it what you will are now the driving force in the arenas................
::stepping down off of his nearly "new" soapbox and posting his thoughts and feelings::
Heath Duncan Connor MacCormack
Warlord and once proud Baron....until another more worthy of the title,gained it.................. of the DoS
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Date: 12/28/97 10:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: SteveLGlow
All I have to say is that I personally would never do what Ally is talking about. To me, the challenge match is the culmination of one's journey to improve their skills, their final exam against one who has already passed such exam. Due to the amount of "stuff" that goes on that Ally wrote about, I never hold a second, Lady of Honor, or house affliation. That kind of "stuff" really bugs me. Dueling is dueling. Let nothing stand in the way.
-Steven Glowacki
(("stuff" used instead of much stronger words due to ToS restrictions))
From: SteveLGlow
All I have to say is that I personally would never do what Ally is talking about. To me, the challenge match is the culmination of one's journey to improve their skills, their final exam against one who has already passed such exam. Due to the amount of "stuff" that goes on that Ally wrote about, I never hold a second, Lady of Honor, or house affliation. That kind of "stuff" really bugs me. Dueling is dueling. Let nothing stand in the way.
-Steven Glowacki
(("stuff" used instead of much stronger words due to ToS restrictions))
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Date: 12/28/97 1:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: LdyAja
::wanders up and reads the posts and shakes her head::Oh no, not this again. It's gonna get messy! ::tacks up her two bits::Well, as someone with little interest in ever challenging someone. They are interesting to watch. Not quite like an accident, but close. I like rootin for my bro' when he's challenged. And what have ya. Best I can say is, "If ya don't like it, Don't do it."::steps back and goes in search of tequila and a party to keep her busy while Huma's gone away on business::
~Lady Aja Bird Dragonbane~ ~Dueler of the DoS~ ~General Misfit~
From: LdyAja
::wanders up and reads the posts and shakes her head::Oh no, not this again. It's gonna get messy! ::tacks up her two bits::Well, as someone with little interest in ever challenging someone. They are interesting to watch. Not quite like an accident, but close. I like rootin for my bro' when he's challenged. And what have ya. Best I can say is, "If ya don't like it, Don't do it."::steps back and goes in search of tequila and a party to keep her busy while Huma's gone away on business::
~Lady Aja Bird Dragonbane~ ~Dueler of the DoS~ ~General Misfit~
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Date: 12/28/97 7:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Sir Cetran
Perhaps,
I do believe that Lord Rix and Lady Foxx are correct in some respects of the Challenge Matches of these days. I do believe that the only reasons there are Challenges today *is* in fact of politics. Before you deem it bad, though, let me ask you this...
What other reasons are there to Challenge these days?
Few, if any, are deemed the *evil* breed of duelists. There is no racial differance between duelists anymore... so, again i shall ask... what is there left to Challenge for?
The only reasons I can find as I search through the files of my mine are the following: One, Political differance. Two, as a challenge you have yet to overcome. Three, bordum. I hate to say it, but there is no fun in peace. Why do the books you read, the plays you watch, the games you play... why do they all resolve around 'conflict'? There is interest in conflict. When there is no evil to fight, who is there left to fight?
Yourselves is the ansewer. And that is what is happening here, and untill there is one that people may find to band up against and fight as a while against, there will continue to be petty arguments and silly challenges. Because all that the DoS is now to *almost* everyone, is a game.
In my mind, these are more facts than opinions. Thank you.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
From: Sir Cetran
Perhaps,
I do believe that Lord Rix and Lady Foxx are correct in some respects of the Challenge Matches of these days. I do believe that the only reasons there are Challenges today *is* in fact of politics. Before you deem it bad, though, let me ask you this...
What other reasons are there to Challenge these days?
Few, if any, are deemed the *evil* breed of duelists. There is no racial differance between duelists anymore... so, again i shall ask... what is there left to Challenge for?
The only reasons I can find as I search through the files of my mine are the following: One, Political differance. Two, as a challenge you have yet to overcome. Three, bordum. I hate to say it, but there is no fun in peace. Why do the books you read, the plays you watch, the games you play... why do they all resolve around 'conflict'? There is interest in conflict. When there is no evil to fight, who is there left to fight?
Yourselves is the ansewer. And that is what is happening here, and untill there is one that people may find to band up against and fight as a while against, there will continue to be petty arguments and silly challenges. Because all that the DoS is now to *almost* everyone, is a game.
In my mind, these are more facts than opinions. Thank you.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
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Date: 12/28/97 8:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: SteveLGlow
Damien,I do not believe that the reason behind the challenges was the reason behind Ally and Rix's posts. I fully agree with all you have to say. However, I believe Ally, Rix, and myself are more concerned with the conduct of the spectators(and the duelers to some extent) at such matches. Whatever the reason behind the challenge for the position, I do believe that the match itself is an great display of skill, and it should be watched with that in mind. Surely, thoughts about what the outcome means do belong, but they are getting out of hand. No one cares about how the matches reach their outcome, only the outcome itself. The skill of duelers is barely acknowledged.-Steven Glowacki
From: SteveLGlow
Damien,I do not believe that the reason behind the challenges was the reason behind Ally and Rix's posts. I fully agree with all you have to say. However, I believe Ally, Rix, and myself are more concerned with the conduct of the spectators(and the duelers to some extent) at such matches. Whatever the reason behind the challenge for the position, I do believe that the match itself is an great display of skill, and it should be watched with that in mind. Surely, thoughts about what the outcome means do belong, but they are getting out of hand. No one cares about how the matches reach their outcome, only the outcome itself. The skill of duelers is barely acknowledged.-Steven Glowacki
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Date: 12/28/97 8:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: J Oaknshld
What about da 40 some people dat come out ta cheer? Dey yell "Nice cut!" "Well read!"
"Great timing!". If people only cared about da outcome dey would read it on da message boards. Rather, da community comes ta a challenge match on a off duelin' night ta watch a great exhibition of skill, and cheer on deir favorite. I believe dis community cares a great deal about da skill involved, dat's why we question when da matches occur, make sure we are dere ta watch, and spend so much effort yellin' out our appreciation of great moves.
Somethin' ta consider...
~J
From: J Oaknshld
What about da 40 some people dat come out ta cheer? Dey yell "Nice cut!" "Well read!"
"Great timing!". If people only cared about da outcome dey would read it on da message boards. Rather, da community comes ta a challenge match on a off duelin' night ta watch a great exhibition of skill, and cheer on deir favorite. I believe dis community cares a great deal about da skill involved, dat's why we question when da matches occur, make sure we are dere ta watch, and spend so much effort yellin' out our appreciation of great moves.
Somethin' ta consider...
~J
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Date: 12/29/97 9:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Foxxgrrl
It's not the motivation for the challenge that bothers me. As Sir Cetran has already said, politics are bound to be the reason. Cultural differences among duelers are so huge that it can't be a simple matter of you versus them anymore. So politics and Houses are created to make it that way, our house vs. your house, loyal vs. renegade.
That, while perhaps worth criticism itself, is really unable to be criticized. Politics are rooted so deep in every group that it is impossible to take them out and live as some everybody's-equal-with-no-differences-in-anything-at-all society. What is possible is criticism, and hopefully change, of the behavior at these matches. Even the political reasons pale in importance when it comes to showing off, in my eyes at any rate and evidently in
some of yours as well.
And Jeff...if they only came to cheer, that'd be one thing. But the truth is it's more of a social get-together than a sporting event.
I'm not saying everyone should silently sit and stare at the duel, utterly respecting both competitors. Gods, that would be worse than what we have now! What I am saying is that more attention needs to be paid to the duel itself and not who's wearing a new gown or who just showed up with their arms around whoever else. Even if the attention is trash-talking the other contestant, it's better than yapping on about so-and-so's new child.
~Alanna St. Reynolds
::who's kinda flattered at being called Lady all the time but thinks it's kindof
an off description of her::
From: Foxxgrrl
It's not the motivation for the challenge that bothers me. As Sir Cetran has already said, politics are bound to be the reason. Cultural differences among duelers are so huge that it can't be a simple matter of you versus them anymore. So politics and Houses are created to make it that way, our house vs. your house, loyal vs. renegade.
That, while perhaps worth criticism itself, is really unable to be criticized. Politics are rooted so deep in every group that it is impossible to take them out and live as some everybody's-equal-with-no-differences-in-anything-at-all society. What is possible is criticism, and hopefully change, of the behavior at these matches. Even the political reasons pale in importance when it comes to showing off, in my eyes at any rate and evidently in
some of yours as well.
And Jeff...if they only came to cheer, that'd be one thing. But the truth is it's more of a social get-together than a sporting event.
I'm not saying everyone should silently sit and stare at the duel, utterly respecting both competitors. Gods, that would be worse than what we have now! What I am saying is that more attention needs to be paid to the duel itself and not who's wearing a new gown or who just showed up with their arms around whoever else. Even if the attention is trash-talking the other contestant, it's better than yapping on about so-and-so's new child.
~Alanna St. Reynolds
::who's kinda flattered at being called Lady all the time but thinks it's kindof
an off description of her::
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Date: 12/29/97 12:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: BuffyWntrs
To whoever~
I tend to disagree with some of the sentiments expressed here. I think a Challenge match is both a sporting event, AND a social get-together. The only thing that I dislike is 'factions' on either side ridiculing and insulting each other. I won't tolerate it during a challenge match I call. I believe they should be conducted with dignity and respect. And that's my limit. If spectators wanna talk about so-and-so's new baby, or the cute new
shorts I'm wearing, I could care less. It's fun for all. Enjoy it, 'nuff said.
~Buffy A. Winters
From: BuffyWntrs
To whoever~
I tend to disagree with some of the sentiments expressed here. I think a Challenge match is both a sporting event, AND a social get-together. The only thing that I dislike is 'factions' on either side ridiculing and insulting each other. I won't tolerate it during a challenge match I call. I believe they should be conducted with dignity and respect. And that's my limit. If spectators wanna talk about so-and-so's new baby, or the cute new
shorts I'm wearing, I could care less. It's fun for all. Enjoy it, 'nuff said.
~Buffy A. Winters
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Date: 12/30/97 11:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Sir Cetran
The motivation of Challenges is the equivilent of the attitudes that follow into the matches themselves. Say it is a political battle, then political comment *will* be made while the match is being fought. Now, this would bring up petty disputes, not always every time, more more so than not, in my beliefe.
I also think Jeff is correct in what he had to say, I always hear cheers and compliment being said or shouted during challenge matches... and not from just one side. Seconds and Lady/Lord at Arms... what is wrong with having them? It could be a firend, it could be someone you feel great honor for.
Lastly, as much as you may not like it, Challenge Matches bring together a group of people. So, if there is a group of people, it must be a social gathering, unless it is religious. Now, if the Challenge match was held privatly, then I suppose the social part would be dropped off, and everything that went on would be secrative.
Perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but my point is, is that I do not think there is anything wrong with the social-ness
, of Challenges. As longas there are cheers for the victor and a *Batter luck next time* for the defeated, i see nothing wrong with people talking during the matches.
~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
From: Sir Cetran
The motivation of Challenges is the equivilent of the attitudes that follow into the matches themselves. Say it is a political battle, then political comment *will* be made while the match is being fought. Now, this would bring up petty disputes, not always every time, more more so than not, in my beliefe.
I also think Jeff is correct in what he had to say, I always hear cheers and compliment being said or shouted during challenge matches... and not from just one side. Seconds and Lady/Lord at Arms... what is wrong with having them? It could be a firend, it could be someone you feel great honor for.
Lastly, as much as you may not like it, Challenge Matches bring together a group of people. So, if there is a group of people, it must be a social gathering, unless it is religious. Now, if the Challenge match was held privatly, then I suppose the social part would be dropped off, and everything that went on would be secrative.
Perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but my point is, is that I do not think there is anything wrong with the social-ness
, of Challenges. As longas there are cheers for the victor and a *Batter luck next time* for the defeated, i see nothing wrong with people talking during the matches. ~^~Sir Damien Cetran~^~
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