From: joaknshld@aol.com (J Oaknshld)
Date: 17 Jan 1998 21:55:33 EST
A reply....since me name came up.
Why do I continue ta challenge, even after losin' rings? Quite simple...I love bein' a baron. But I have good reason ta love it. I get ta play an important role in da political games dat go on, I get ta take a part of dis community and wear it on me finger, a representation of all dat I fight fer and try ta set an example fer. Never have I claimed ta be da best fer wearin' da most rings, or even sought ta be seen as da best. I just enjoy da
privileges of bein' a baron, and will continue ta exercise my right ta challenge as I see fit. As long as I keep winnin' as da challenger, I will continue ta enjoy da rights of da baron.
Now...touchin' on da recent outcry against Rand Al'Thor. I was quick ta misjudge dis challenge, sidin' with Luthien and Ulath, and ta some degree I still do. But I am den forced ta remember a young JOKERJEFF1, fresh ta da sport and unknowin' of its great histories, who challenged and went up against Ex-Overlord and Baron Daegarth Mithmellon, a truly respected member of da community. I won dat challenge, and as a new baron learned more of da sport
and its dealin's dan had I not been one. I faced multiple challenges, ta test me right ta be a "newbie" baron, and so I withstood fer awhile. Ta dis day I have never regretted dat challenge, and am grateful fer da benefits I reaped. It taught me a lot about da barons, da Overlord, and all da tradition dat goes with such rank. Also, I don't believe I turned out so bad ;D So, I shall watch on as Rand pursues a similar path, hopefully, if
victorious he will do da ring honor as Ulath has. If he fails, he will no longer be da topic of such controversy, and we will continue on in our ways as always.
If we can do nothin' ta help him be a better challenger, den perhaps we should just give him a chance.....
Respectfully,
~Jeffrey Oakenshield~
Defender of da 8th Barons' Ring
Challenge on Baronial Ring 3
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From: skylerjc@aol.com (Skyler JC)
Date: 17 Jan 1998 23:08:45 EST
My turn.
I'm siding with Darkness.
If, by some technical reason, his wins are invalid....then of course his challenge should be void.
However! *****There is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging for Barony or Overlordship with the only motive being wanting to advance your rank.*****
You don't need any stupid political motives to want to move up in the sport. That's rediculous. It's human nature to want to be competitive with your peers.
When I held the 5th ring for that short period of time, it was won from me by Gnort Dragoon. However, if Gnort hadn't challenged me, and I was challenged by Bob4985725, (and Bob had the PW's and stuff, and Bob didn't know the difference of IC and OOC), I would have gladly accepted.
I am completely opposite from the way most people feel. Most people who have posted here think you need some political reason for challenging, and personal reasons are not good enough. But if I were a Baron, and someone challenged me with some political motive, I would be more likely to not accept.
I don't see the DoS Barony as a government--I see it as being able to use one more fancy in a duel. That's why I absolutely *love* having Dalamar as the Overlord. While I may not like him personally, I think he's one of the two best duelers ever to grace the sport of DoS. A man like that deserves the highest rank.
I also think Ulath is by far a better dueler than Darkness. Since that is so, Ulath, why don't you just beat the snot out of him on challenge night and set an example for all the other non-political warlords by showing them what it's like to meet a superior athlete in the rings.
Enough.
~Skyler Jackson Chamberland
Date: 17 Jan 1998 23:08:45 EST
My turn.
I'm siding with Darkness.
If, by some technical reason, his wins are invalid....then of course his challenge should be void.
However! *****There is absolutely nothing wrong with challenging for Barony or Overlordship with the only motive being wanting to advance your rank.*****
You don't need any stupid political motives to want to move up in the sport. That's rediculous. It's human nature to want to be competitive with your peers.
When I held the 5th ring for that short period of time, it was won from me by Gnort Dragoon. However, if Gnort hadn't challenged me, and I was challenged by Bob4985725, (and Bob had the PW's and stuff, and Bob didn't know the difference of IC and OOC), I would have gladly accepted.
I am completely opposite from the way most people feel. Most people who have posted here think you need some political reason for challenging, and personal reasons are not good enough. But if I were a Baron, and someone challenged me with some political motive, I would be more likely to not accept.
I don't see the DoS Barony as a government--I see it as being able to use one more fancy in a duel. That's why I absolutely *love* having Dalamar as the Overlord. While I may not like him personally, I think he's one of the two best duelers ever to grace the sport of DoS. A man like that deserves the highest rank.
I also think Ulath is by far a better dueler than Darkness. Since that is so, Ulath, why don't you just beat the snot out of him on challenge night and set an example for all the other non-political warlords by showing them what it's like to meet a superior athlete in the rings.
Enough.
~Skyler Jackson Chamberland
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From: dueier@aol.com (DueIer)
Date: 17 Jan 1998 23:39:15 EST
((Since this kinda covers many topics, I'm posting it on the thread from where I get the quote. Also, this post is fairly long. Don't say I didn't warn you.))
Damien Cetran:
<<I've have heard Darkness and Dueler ask many, many question's of 'How to Challenge'>>
May it go on the record that I did not once ask anyone as to the mechanics of how to challenge for Baron. The rules as published are lucid enough for me.
Onto issues that I wish to address:
Many of those that are "veterans" of this sport, those that have been around for many a year, all of you seem outraged that duelers like "Darkness2" and I can challenge so quickly, and for basically no reason. As I stated earlier, I wish this to be changed. but as it is now, I shall attempt to use it to my advantage.
The questions running through all of your minds it seems are: "Do these duelers know what it is like to be a Baron?" and "Do they know why they really want to be Baron?". I now ask this of the community: Do *you* know what it means to be a Baron? Do *you* know why you constantly make challenges. Even those challenges that have personal motives, if the Baron's ring meant nothing to you, than you would seek other means. As it is, there is
something in being a Baron that people want, and that they don't want to lose.
So how is the populus supposed to find out what it is like to be a Baron? Will sitting on their rear for 6 months with a mile high stack of peer wins make them better suited, and more knowledgable about Baronies? I say no more than a Warlord who has scouted the upper ranks with intent for a couple of months, as I did. It seems that being a Baron is the only way to know what it is like to be a Baron. It is no help to the newer Warlords that
older Warlords bicker over the Baron's seats, yet bicker with the younger Warlords when they stand up to challenge.
And not all of those that make Baron are older duelers. As Jeff said, he won his very first challenge match, when he had just made Warlord. Baron Errol Faline was a new Warlord when I first started to duel, did not duel for awhile, and when he won his match, and then defended 4 times, I doubt that many remembered how recent he had become a Warlord, but merely remembered his oustanding accomplishments. Huma Dragonbane was similarly a fairly new
Warlord around the same time, failed in a challenge for Baron and then for the Overlord, but then successfully challenged and has defended twice.
::his hand starts to hurt and he takes a few minutes to strech it until the pain goes away completely. He then realizes he is off an a bit of a tangent, and gets back to what he meant to write about::
Back to the issue at hand: Do I know what it is like to be a baron, and what will I do when I become one? I say thus: I do not have first hand experience, and certainly not *everyone* can have first hand experience when they challenge. DoS is not about trading rings amongst ex-Barons. Therefore, I do say that I do not know what it is like. However, it is a sign of greater skill, and hopefully a station of respect. Though there are some
duelers present in this community that do not feel that they deserve such, I believe that I am. I do not wish to brag. I do not wish to hold onto a baron's ring indefinitely. If I were to become a Baron, and for some reason think it not worth the effort, I would never try again. However, how can one know what they are missing, if they never try it to obtain it in the first place? Also, were it that I did not feel qualified, or were it that I did
not believe there was adequate reason to challenge, I would postpone my challenge until later, when I felt the time is right.
To go on to the next part of the question, what will i do if I become a Baron? I answer thus: The same as most everyone else. Continue dueling, and defend my ring if neccessary. And I certainly will continue dueling, unlike some Barons who feel content to sit on their rings and not let them become available for those with time to duel(I do not mean Luthien in this case, as she serves our community as a wonderful referee). A challenge to the
Overlord would be against my current policy of loyalty, so what else is there to do upon becoming Baron? Run for governor?
After explaining this to the community, I have reached the conclusion that the DoS community wants the same group of people to be Baron forever. Anyone that does not sit on their rear for 6 months and beg will be yelled at for "not knowing what it means to be a Baron". While many do this because they might not be in the sport for the titles, some people take DoS as more than recreation, but a competitive sport. If it were mere recreation,
there would be no ranks. If that were the case, I might still participate. However, the way it is set up is that of a competitive sport, and there is no reason that one cannot approach the sport in that way. I have studied the histories but out by the management. I know some of the great names of yesteryear, although I did not see their accomplishments first-hand. But what about the greats of tommorrow? Do we wish to play-down the chances of
every person that comes through the ranks? If the community continues to berate those that try to get an upper hand, it acts no better the most liberal(for lack of a better word) form of democracy, mob rule. DoS may have its coordinators and standings keeper, but those are positions of administration, and not power. If a mob decides they don't like someone, the victim has little hope. I do not wish to see such a great community degrade itself
that much.
::once again his hand starts to throb in pain, and puts his pen down for a few minutes, then draws his remarks to a close::
On that note, I wish to end this dicussion. I thank you all for reading it. I certainly hope you all will share your opinions on it, and I will try to address your comments each day as they appear. If you wish me to discuss a certain issue in particular, make sure to leave a note in my mail box in the arena. As of now, I am merely writing what comes to my head, and trying to relate it to the topics at hand.
Once again, I thank you for you patience in reading this lengthy document.
~The Nameless Dueler~
otherwise known as "DueIer", carrying other forms of address too numerous and lengthy to list here.
Date: 17 Jan 1998 23:39:15 EST
((Since this kinda covers many topics, I'm posting it on the thread from where I get the quote. Also, this post is fairly long. Don't say I didn't warn you.))
Damien Cetran:
<<I've have heard Darkness and Dueler ask many, many question's of 'How to Challenge'>>
May it go on the record that I did not once ask anyone as to the mechanics of how to challenge for Baron. The rules as published are lucid enough for me.
Onto issues that I wish to address:
Many of those that are "veterans" of this sport, those that have been around for many a year, all of you seem outraged that duelers like "Darkness2" and I can challenge so quickly, and for basically no reason. As I stated earlier, I wish this to be changed. but as it is now, I shall attempt to use it to my advantage.
The questions running through all of your minds it seems are: "Do these duelers know what it is like to be a Baron?" and "Do they know why they really want to be Baron?". I now ask this of the community: Do *you* know what it means to be a Baron? Do *you* know why you constantly make challenges. Even those challenges that have personal motives, if the Baron's ring meant nothing to you, than you would seek other means. As it is, there is
something in being a Baron that people want, and that they don't want to lose.
So how is the populus supposed to find out what it is like to be a Baron? Will sitting on their rear for 6 months with a mile high stack of peer wins make them better suited, and more knowledgable about Baronies? I say no more than a Warlord who has scouted the upper ranks with intent for a couple of months, as I did. It seems that being a Baron is the only way to know what it is like to be a Baron. It is no help to the newer Warlords that
older Warlords bicker over the Baron's seats, yet bicker with the younger Warlords when they stand up to challenge.
And not all of those that make Baron are older duelers. As Jeff said, he won his very first challenge match, when he had just made Warlord. Baron Errol Faline was a new Warlord when I first started to duel, did not duel for awhile, and when he won his match, and then defended 4 times, I doubt that many remembered how recent he had become a Warlord, but merely remembered his oustanding accomplishments. Huma Dragonbane was similarly a fairly new
Warlord around the same time, failed in a challenge for Baron and then for the Overlord, but then successfully challenged and has defended twice.
::his hand starts to hurt and he takes a few minutes to strech it until the pain goes away completely. He then realizes he is off an a bit of a tangent, and gets back to what he meant to write about::
Back to the issue at hand: Do I know what it is like to be a baron, and what will I do when I become one? I say thus: I do not have first hand experience, and certainly not *everyone* can have first hand experience when they challenge. DoS is not about trading rings amongst ex-Barons. Therefore, I do say that I do not know what it is like. However, it is a sign of greater skill, and hopefully a station of respect. Though there are some
duelers present in this community that do not feel that they deserve such, I believe that I am. I do not wish to brag. I do not wish to hold onto a baron's ring indefinitely. If I were to become a Baron, and for some reason think it not worth the effort, I would never try again. However, how can one know what they are missing, if they never try it to obtain it in the first place? Also, were it that I did not feel qualified, or were it that I did
not believe there was adequate reason to challenge, I would postpone my challenge until later, when I felt the time is right.
To go on to the next part of the question, what will i do if I become a Baron? I answer thus: The same as most everyone else. Continue dueling, and defend my ring if neccessary. And I certainly will continue dueling, unlike some Barons who feel content to sit on their rings and not let them become available for those with time to duel(I do not mean Luthien in this case, as she serves our community as a wonderful referee). A challenge to the
Overlord would be against my current policy of loyalty, so what else is there to do upon becoming Baron? Run for governor?
After explaining this to the community, I have reached the conclusion that the DoS community wants the same group of people to be Baron forever. Anyone that does not sit on their rear for 6 months and beg will be yelled at for "not knowing what it means to be a Baron". While many do this because they might not be in the sport for the titles, some people take DoS as more than recreation, but a competitive sport. If it were mere recreation,
there would be no ranks. If that were the case, I might still participate. However, the way it is set up is that of a competitive sport, and there is no reason that one cannot approach the sport in that way. I have studied the histories but out by the management. I know some of the great names of yesteryear, although I did not see their accomplishments first-hand. But what about the greats of tommorrow? Do we wish to play-down the chances of
every person that comes through the ranks? If the community continues to berate those that try to get an upper hand, it acts no better the most liberal(for lack of a better word) form of democracy, mob rule. DoS may have its coordinators and standings keeper, but those are positions of administration, and not power. If a mob decides they don't like someone, the victim has little hope. I do not wish to see such a great community degrade itself
that much.
::once again his hand starts to throb in pain, and puts his pen down for a few minutes, then draws his remarks to a close::
On that note, I wish to end this dicussion. I thank you all for reading it. I certainly hope you all will share your opinions on it, and I will try to address your comments each day as they appear. If you wish me to discuss a certain issue in particular, make sure to leave a note in my mail box in the arena. As of now, I am merely writing what comes to my head, and trying to relate it to the topics at hand.
Once again, I thank you for you patience in reading this lengthy document.
~The Nameless Dueler~
otherwise known as "DueIer", carrying other forms of address too numerous and lengthy to list here.
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From: dueier@aol.com (DueIer)
Date: 17 Jan 1998 23:47:54 EST
::finds a new post on the boards as he posts his previous message. Reading it over, he nods his head, and returns to his seat to write a short reply::
Skyler Jackson Chamberland,
Well said. You are one of the few I see in this community not afraid of speaking the real truth, not the truth as other people want it to be, or merely concur with others to stay popular. Your words carry the very essence of the truth I am trying to get across to the community. My thanks.
~The Nameless Dueler~
aka "DueIer" and others
Date: 17 Jan 1998 23:47:54 EST
::finds a new post on the boards as he posts his previous message. Reading it over, he nods his head, and returns to his seat to write a short reply::
Skyler Jackson Chamberland,
Well said. You are one of the few I see in this community not afraid of speaking the real truth, not the truth as other people want it to be, or merely concur with others to stay popular. Your words carry the very essence of the truth I am trying to get across to the community. My thanks.
~The Nameless Dueler~
aka "DueIer" and others
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From: lexigirl1@aol.com (LexiGirl1)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:00:45 EST
::goes up to the posts and reads all of this confusion. Scratches her head and then thinks to herself, "Wasn't Rand a Warlord a long time ago. I could have sworn that he was." Shrugs and walks away thinking that her former opponent knew much and always had some type of reasonable motive for things::
Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:00:45 EST
::goes up to the posts and reads all of this confusion. Scratches her head and then thinks to herself, "Wasn't Rand a Warlord a long time ago. I could have sworn that he was." Shrugs and walks away thinking that her former opponent knew much and always had some type of reasonable motive for things::
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From: darkness2@aol.com (Darkness2)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:10:25 EST
::walks up the board and reads the notes, tacks up a new one of his own::
Wow!! this thing is getting almost as much publicity as the auction. Well, I just want to thank those of you who decided not to trash me because I Actually Challenged a Baron.
Anyway, I just wanted to thank those of you who are kind of on my side and are not siding with the so called "mob".
Also, I didn't mean any disrespect in my challenge. I am sorry if some of you feel that I did indeed show disrespect. I only meant to challenge. And I did decide carefully, I have been studing the History section for a time and I did indeed want to choose Queen Lutien, but I also saw Ulath's ring. So my decision was not brash.
From
Rand Al'thor
The Dragon Reborn
Warlord of the DoS
Sorcerer of the DoM
Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:10:25 EST
::walks up the board and reads the notes, tacks up a new one of his own::
Wow!! this thing is getting almost as much publicity as the auction. Well, I just want to thank those of you who decided not to trash me because I Actually Challenged a Baron.
Anyway, I just wanted to thank those of you who are kind of on my side and are not siding with the so called "mob".
Also, I didn't mean any disrespect in my challenge. I am sorry if some of you feel that I did indeed show disrespect. I only meant to challenge. And I did decide carefully, I have been studing the History section for a time and I did indeed want to choose Queen Lutien, but I also saw Ulath's ring. So my decision was not brash.
From
Rand Al'thor
The Dragon Reborn
Warlord of the DoS
Sorcerer of the DoM
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From: humadragbn@aol.com (HumaDragbn)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:11:51 EST
Let it be known, I had been a warlord for over a month, and my peer wins were more than a few min. old. I had respect enough to wait untill all were posted. And, I will add, that I had good reason to challenge for Baron. Not to test myself, not for the advancement of rank, not for glory, but to remove who I felt was a hippocrit from his title. I actually felt myself unworthy to hold this ring, and at times I still feel the same way. I would also like
to put in an opinion, if Dueler or Darkness either or both are successful in thier challenges....don't plan on holding the title very long....
Huma
Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:11:51 EST
Let it be known, I had been a warlord for over a month, and my peer wins were more than a few min. old. I had respect enough to wait untill all were posted. And, I will add, that I had good reason to challenge for Baron. Not to test myself, not for the advancement of rank, not for glory, but to remove who I felt was a hippocrit from his title. I actually felt myself unworthy to hold this ring, and at times I still feel the same way. I would also like
to put in an opinion, if Dueler or Darkness either or both are successful in thier challenges....don't plan on holding the title very long....
Huma
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From: damonblack@aol.com (DamonBlack)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 01:34:09 EST
>>You are one of the few I see in this community not afraid of speaking the real truth,<<
Nameless One,
How can Skyler be speaking the truth, that the DoS is nothing more than a game when you turn right around and call the DoS a 'community'?
Skyler,
I have heard this before from you. You are right, in your own mind. We all are. However, when other people create the game to be more than what it is, than isn't it more? Or is it still a game? Back where I came from, we had this game called Football. Football required nothing more than throwing, catching, running with a ball. If you were dragged to the ground when you had the ball, you stopped. Now, people took interest in this game. They found it
fun to compeate in this game against other groups.
Eventually, other people took interest in the game. Those who could not play, enjoyed watching this game. As time went on, people would find other people who were good at the game and paid them to play, because by this time, such a crowd of people loved to watch this game, that they saw the economical value in it. So, in time, this game turned out to be much, much more than just a game.
Now, in comparrison with the Swording game of Duel of Swords... does it make sence why people make such 'outcrys' when such events happen? It is very clear in my mind. This explains of why Rad was suspended, if it is just a game, then why did anyone bother with wht he said?
Thank you.
~Damon Black
Date: 18 Jan 1998 01:34:09 EST
>>You are one of the few I see in this community not afraid of speaking the real truth,<<
Nameless One,
How can Skyler be speaking the truth, that the DoS is nothing more than a game when you turn right around and call the DoS a 'community'?
Skyler,
I have heard this before from you. You are right, in your own mind. We all are. However, when other people create the game to be more than what it is, than isn't it more? Or is it still a game? Back where I came from, we had this game called Football. Football required nothing more than throwing, catching, running with a ball. If you were dragged to the ground when you had the ball, you stopped. Now, people took interest in this game. They found it
fun to compeate in this game against other groups.
Eventually, other people took interest in the game. Those who could not play, enjoyed watching this game. As time went on, people would find other people who were good at the game and paid them to play, because by this time, such a crowd of people loved to watch this game, that they saw the economical value in it. So, in time, this game turned out to be much, much more than just a game.
Now, in comparrison with the Swording game of Duel of Swords... does it make sence why people make such 'outcrys' when such events happen? It is very clear in my mind. This explains of why Rad was suspended, if it is just a game, then why did anyone bother with wht he said?
Thank you.
~Damon Black
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 02:59:28 EST
>I don't see the DoS Barony as a government--I see it as being
>able to use one more fancy in a duel.
This line of thinking is precisely what's wrong with the arena. Down to the last syllable.
Date: 18 Jan 1998 02:59:28 EST
>I don't see the DoS Barony as a government--I see it as being
>able to use one more fancy in a duel.
This line of thinking is precisely what's wrong with the arena. Down to the last syllable.
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From: occurs@aol.com (Occurs)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 03:00:15 EST
::yawns and looks at all the bits of paper untill she comes her husbands familiar writing::
Well said luv.
Date: 18 Jan 1998 03:00:15 EST
::yawns and looks at all the bits of paper untill she comes her husbands familiar writing::
Well said luv.
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From: karyepezd@aol.com (Karye PezD)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 03:20:15 EST
I've been around..I don't know, a month or so. I've heard things, read things, seen things. One of the few things that I've heard about, read about, and seen are people who find really bad (or, at best, take whoever comes but avoid people who are really good) in order to have a real easy path to Warlord.
It seems like this is more than a sport..more like a community, but a community based on the sport. I don't see any problem with the challenges in themselves...lack of respect, not knowing what's going on, yeah, fine. They'll learn damn quick. I think these challenges should be almost welcomed, considering in these cases, the challengers are just wasting their peer wins.
Where the problem lies (or will lie) is with the duelists who hack their way to Warlord by fancy-stepping their way through commoners, then keep beating on commoners to stay at that rank while they fight just enough Warlords to get the peer wins they need. I'm not saying these two challengers did it that way..I'm not saying they didn't, either. I don't know. But if they seem to have real skill..might as well give them a shot.
K.P.
Future Overlady (nothing like aiming high, right?)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 03:20:15 EST
I've been around..I don't know, a month or so. I've heard things, read things, seen things. One of the few things that I've heard about, read about, and seen are people who find really bad (or, at best, take whoever comes but avoid people who are really good) in order to have a real easy path to Warlord.
It seems like this is more than a sport..more like a community, but a community based on the sport. I don't see any problem with the challenges in themselves...lack of respect, not knowing what's going on, yeah, fine. They'll learn damn quick. I think these challenges should be almost welcomed, considering in these cases, the challengers are just wasting their peer wins.
Where the problem lies (or will lie) is with the duelists who hack their way to Warlord by fancy-stepping their way through commoners, then keep beating on commoners to stay at that rank while they fight just enough Warlords to get the peer wins they need. I'm not saying these two challengers did it that way..I'm not saying they didn't, either. I don't know. But if they seem to have real skill..might as well give them a shot.
K.P.
Future Overlady (nothing like aiming high, right?)
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From: dakich@aol.com (Dakich)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 05:00:27 EST
No, No, I shouldn't! No! No! Must...stay away...from...political ...thread....Ah what the heck.
It's time for "Dak's 2 cents!"
First of all, Dark IM'd me one day asking about the caller and date on a peer win he had on me. No big deal, my records are sloppy too. I asked him if he was challenging and he said yes. Again, it didn't really bother me....It did cross my mind that Dark was going at it very fast....I just started seeing him for a few weeks....but I wasn't really bother.
1. So first of all: "Do these 'Newbie' Warlords have a right to challenge?"
Dak saids: Yes. They have every right to challenge as long as they follow the rules to the challenge. If they weren't meant to challenge then it would have been made so in the rules.....and if this has become the case, I'm sure the rules would be changed to reflect this. But as it stands...They defeated 10+ peers....and did all the other stuff. They can challenge.
2."But should they challenge?"
Dak says:: Tough call... Well...I do believe you should become known in the Arena before challenging. But it depends on the WL in question too....does he feel he should? He might; so he does.
3."Do we have to like it?"
Dak saids: No, of course not. Everyone has their right to opinion.
4."Sooo.....what?"
Ok then, I understand why the DoS Veteran are upset about some "Upstart newbie" thinking he can be baron". And I understand why it's ok for a "New and established WL" to want to challenge to be Baron. However, I will have to believe that these new WLs have the right to challenge....and Barons should expect this to happen. Granted this didn't really happen before....but hey...it was going to happen soomer or later. Yes perhaps Dark did rush things
a little but should we frown on him because he's new? Did he really mean disrepect? If Ulath was so offended then he should talk to Dark about it. As I recall....hitting WL in the first place meant something....perhaps that has changed.
So...where am I going with this? Who knows....I just hope it offered some insight on this wacked up who-ha. One last thing to add...while it may be a subject of "Newbies and their place".....I have to also ask think about, "Elites and how they view Newbies". Disclaimer- I am in no way implying or insulting anyone with the previous statement.
Thank you, Thank you, Sorry of typos!
-Dak
ps- Since it's the trend, I guess I should list my DoS history briefly to show I'm *good* enough to have 2 cent ;)
I started DoS about in the beginning of 1996. So that means I've been here for about 2 years. During that 2 years I took a 4-6 month break...but during the break I still came into DoS once in a while so I wouldn't become rusty. Needless to say...I'm probably one of the older DoS Vet....yet by know means even close to some of the greats. I knew Jeff when he was JokerJeff1...we were in the same dueling school. I'm still trying to figure out how he
got so many WoL. I've never challenged before...though god knows I have the peer wins for it. I'm having my first challenge on the 25, come and watch!.....that should be enough. :)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 05:00:27 EST
No, No, I shouldn't! No! No! Must...stay away...from...political ...thread....Ah what the heck.
It's time for "Dak's 2 cents!"
First of all, Dark IM'd me one day asking about the caller and date on a peer win he had on me. No big deal, my records are sloppy too. I asked him if he was challenging and he said yes. Again, it didn't really bother me....It did cross my mind that Dark was going at it very fast....I just started seeing him for a few weeks....but I wasn't really bother.
1. So first of all: "Do these 'Newbie' Warlords have a right to challenge?"
Dak saids: Yes. They have every right to challenge as long as they follow the rules to the challenge. If they weren't meant to challenge then it would have been made so in the rules.....and if this has become the case, I'm sure the rules would be changed to reflect this. But as it stands...They defeated 10+ peers....and did all the other stuff. They can challenge.
2."But should they challenge?"
Dak says:: Tough call... Well...I do believe you should become known in the Arena before challenging. But it depends on the WL in question too....does he feel he should? He might; so he does.
3."Do we have to like it?"
Dak saids: No, of course not. Everyone has their right to opinion.
4."Sooo.....what?"
Ok then, I understand why the DoS Veteran are upset about some "Upstart newbie" thinking he can be baron". And I understand why it's ok for a "New and established WL" to want to challenge to be Baron. However, I will have to believe that these new WLs have the right to challenge....and Barons should expect this to happen. Granted this didn't really happen before....but hey...it was going to happen soomer or later. Yes perhaps Dark did rush things
a little but should we frown on him because he's new? Did he really mean disrepect? If Ulath was so offended then he should talk to Dark about it. As I recall....hitting WL in the first place meant something....perhaps that has changed.
So...where am I going with this? Who knows....I just hope it offered some insight on this wacked up who-ha. One last thing to add...while it may be a subject of "Newbies and their place".....I have to also ask think about, "Elites and how they view Newbies". Disclaimer- I am in no way implying or insulting anyone with the previous statement.
Thank you, Thank you, Sorry of typos!
-Dak
ps- Since it's the trend, I guess I should list my DoS history briefly to show I'm *good* enough to have 2 cent ;)
I started DoS about in the beginning of 1996. So that means I've been here for about 2 years. During that 2 years I took a 4-6 month break...but during the break I still came into DoS once in a while so I wouldn't become rusty. Needless to say...I'm probably one of the older DoS Vet....yet by know means even close to some of the greats. I knew Jeff when he was JokerJeff1...we were in the same dueling school. I'm still trying to figure out how he
got so many WoL. I've never challenged before...though god knows I have the peer wins for it. I'm having my first challenge on the 25, come and watch!.....that should be enough. :)
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From: dueier@aol.com (DueIer)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 11:33:14 EST
Damon Black:
<<How can Skyler be speaking the truth, that the DoS is nothing more than a game when you turn right around and call the DoS a 'community'?>>
Around every organized game there forms a community of the people that enjoy participating in it. A game would certainly be much less enjoyable would that there were no community involved. The community is what causes these arguments about Baronial challenges, but without a community, a sport would die.
Let me define sport as listed in this dictionary I have at hand, including only those definitions which have meaning in this environment: "1a: a source of diversion: recreation b(1): a physical activity engaged in for pleasure b(2): a particular activity(as hunting or an athletic game)." This does not mean that there cannot be a community involved in regulating the sport and helping its members get the full enjoyment from it. It also leaves
room for there to be these arguments as such.
I wish to take back a bit of what I said pertaining to Skyler's message. I certainly do not believe that being Baron just means an extra fancy, but I do believe that the correct view lies somewhere along those lines, and Skyler merely took it a bit too far, down to its only true meaning in the rules of the sport. I disagree with Lord Tynsdale that what Skyler had said is what is wrong with the arena, for what he talks about is no problem if he
is the only one to believe it. And I ask Lord Tynsdale what exactly he means by "what is wrong with the arena". What ramifications on a large scale exist because of this view? I think I know the answer, but I wish to hear your views on the matter.
Once again, I thank you all for reading this.
~The Nameless Dueler~
aka "DueIer" et al.
Date: 18 Jan 1998 11:33:14 EST
Damon Black:
<<How can Skyler be speaking the truth, that the DoS is nothing more than a game when you turn right around and call the DoS a 'community'?>>
Around every organized game there forms a community of the people that enjoy participating in it. A game would certainly be much less enjoyable would that there were no community involved. The community is what causes these arguments about Baronial challenges, but without a community, a sport would die.
Let me define sport as listed in this dictionary I have at hand, including only those definitions which have meaning in this environment: "1a: a source of diversion: recreation b(1): a physical activity engaged in for pleasure b(2): a particular activity(as hunting or an athletic game)." This does not mean that there cannot be a community involved in regulating the sport and helping its members get the full enjoyment from it. It also leaves
room for there to be these arguments as such.
I wish to take back a bit of what I said pertaining to Skyler's message. I certainly do not believe that being Baron just means an extra fancy, but I do believe that the correct view lies somewhere along those lines, and Skyler merely took it a bit too far, down to its only true meaning in the rules of the sport. I disagree with Lord Tynsdale that what Skyler had said is what is wrong with the arena, for what he talks about is no problem if he
is the only one to believe it. And I ask Lord Tynsdale what exactly he means by "what is wrong with the arena". What ramifications on a large scale exist because of this view? I think I know the answer, but I wish to hear your views on the matter.
Once again, I thank you all for reading this.
~The Nameless Dueler~
aka "DueIer" et al.
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From: missliiy@aol.com (Miss LiIy)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 11:48:14 EST
::reads all the posts and shakes her head:: I'm staying out of this one
Date: 18 Jan 1998 11:48:14 EST
::reads all the posts and shakes her head:: I'm staying out of this one
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From: ldyaja@aol.com (LdyAja)
Date: 18 Jan 1998 12:47:28 EST
YIKERS!!
You all have repeated each other God knows how many times. (I fell asleep ?? posts back)
Short and Sweet.
Rand and Dueler..You jumped the gun. No respect could be the cause. My bet's on ignorance of the law, or at least the unspoken law. If your challenges are rendered null and void, don't um...complain. You made sure you had all your peer wins, but you didn't follow the right procedure.
Is that simple enough?
~Aja "I'm getting tired of the political argueing. Why can't we get along?" Dragonbane~
Date: 18 Jan 1998 12:47:28 EST
YIKERS!!
You all have repeated each other God knows how many times. (I fell asleep ?? posts back)
Short and Sweet.
Rand and Dueler..You jumped the gun. No respect could be the cause. My bet's on ignorance of the law, or at least the unspoken law. If your challenges are rendered null and void, don't um...complain. You made sure you had all your peer wins, but you didn't follow the right procedure.
Is that simple enough?
~Aja "I'm getting tired of the political argueing. Why can't we get along?" Dragonbane~