From: ldyaja@aol.com (LdyAja)
Date: 21 Jan 1998 16:08:31 EST
Aja listened to the bickering, and had even been a contributing factor in the arguements. She sat thinking all of it over in the arena, after all had mad their way home.
Nothing to be said about it, or was there? She took a piece of paper out and wrote down some thoughts....
Fellow DoS members,
Lately, we have all argued over repect, or lack of, political stances, and generally anything worthy of blowing hot air after.
I'm no one special, I am not the smartest one in the arena..But I've got some ideas of what can be done to turn the tides.
Teach new duelers. Take a new one under your wing and teach them. Remember when you came here. How lost you were, how confusing it could be, and how lonely? If no one taught you, weren't there times you wish someone had? And in teaching them, you do 2 things; Give someone a solid foundation on which to become a valued member of the DoS, and you give yourself the chance to learn something new, and gain a new friend. Not a bad deal is it?
The politics are confusing. Maybe we could have one of the Baron's or the Overlord himself to take a moment and tack up what the importance of their postion is, what it means to the arena, and each person who walks into it. In all honesty, I am begining to think that Baron or OverLord is nothing more than a title. There is no job that goes with it. That if all disappeared, the DoS would remain unaffected. And I am willing to bet that's what the
new commers to this sport think as well.
Now, these are thoughts, probably not original, but I think they are worth thinking about. Thanks for your time.
~Lady Aja Bird Dragonbane~
An idea
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 22 Jan 1998 02:26:32 EST
Lady Dragonbane:
Greetings.
Your question is not one that is unwarranted, and your comments of late have been worth digesting. Although not a current Baron, perhaps I might offer an answer to your query.
What a Baron, or the Overlord, is (or should be) depends on the audience, to be quite honest. To some - primarily other Warlords of long-standing, or former holders of the titles themselves - on the surface, they are merely title-holders. Person to person, I do not respect Dalamar or consider him better than myself simply because of his title. As a Baron, I was not respected by Fandral Kurgan, nor did he consider me his better, simply because of
my title at the time. In those instances, respect is earned by interpersonal knowledge and witnessed skill in the ring, not by an achievement.
However... to the newcomer to the rings, or to the Swordsman who seeks improvement and dreams of one day having that sort of respect, the Barons and Overlord are examples. They are the ones that such folk will tend to look up to as they become involved in our grand sport. They are, simply put, role models for newer generations. Further, those of us who may not respect them simply because of their title, as I mentioned above, judge them on their
honor for this very reason. If a respected non-titleholder is of the opinion that the Overlord sets a poor example for those who HAVE no sense of this sport's history, they will act, without hesitation, to replace that person - either themselves, or by encouraging others who they feel will properly represent the SPORT to the masses.
While you are correct in saying that being a Baron or the Overlord is not a "job," per se, their actions affect the community as a whole, by their example - and by judging those titleholders on their honor and activities, we - that is, those among us with the ability to effect change in those ranks - in our own way "vote" on how we wish the community of the rings to be portrayed.
By way of example, Dalamar is under fire for his policies by a segment of this community. While Dalamar has my support as a friend, I must also respect the desire of his opposition to attempt to change the environment of the rings to reflect their own codes of honor. Even as I must respect those desires, I must also respect Dalamar's own desire to use his position to offer his OWN example of what he considers to be correct.
In my view, I (or any other dueler) have the duty to support my (or they their own) view of how this community should be reflected. If I disagree strenuously enough with a renegade Baron's policies, it is my duty to attempt to remove him. If I disagree similarly with the Overlord, it is my duty to either remove a loyal Baron, or attempt to remove the Overlord himself. If I agree with the Overlord, it is my duty to defend him, if possible.
Some disagree with this philosophy, and merely consider this a sport. That, too, is their right, though I disagree vehemently, and have acted (and WILL act) to remove such persons from 'power.' They have the ability, should they possess the skill, to gain and retain their position of influence, and impart their vision of the rings on the masses.
And that, Lady Dragonbane, in answer to your question, is what I consider the 'job' of the titled ranks - to lead by example, and to fight for their vision.
Iain MacKenzie
Lord Tynsdale
Prince Consort, New Mountainside
Warlord and Thrice-Baron of the Duel of Swords.
Date: 22 Jan 1998 02:26:32 EST
Lady Dragonbane:
Greetings.
Your question is not one that is unwarranted, and your comments of late have been worth digesting. Although not a current Baron, perhaps I might offer an answer to your query.
What a Baron, or the Overlord, is (or should be) depends on the audience, to be quite honest. To some - primarily other Warlords of long-standing, or former holders of the titles themselves - on the surface, they are merely title-holders. Person to person, I do not respect Dalamar or consider him better than myself simply because of his title. As a Baron, I was not respected by Fandral Kurgan, nor did he consider me his better, simply because of
my title at the time. In those instances, respect is earned by interpersonal knowledge and witnessed skill in the ring, not by an achievement.
However... to the newcomer to the rings, or to the Swordsman who seeks improvement and dreams of one day having that sort of respect, the Barons and Overlord are examples. They are the ones that such folk will tend to look up to as they become involved in our grand sport. They are, simply put, role models for newer generations. Further, those of us who may not respect them simply because of their title, as I mentioned above, judge them on their
honor for this very reason. If a respected non-titleholder is of the opinion that the Overlord sets a poor example for those who HAVE no sense of this sport's history, they will act, without hesitation, to replace that person - either themselves, or by encouraging others who they feel will properly represent the SPORT to the masses.
While you are correct in saying that being a Baron or the Overlord is not a "job," per se, their actions affect the community as a whole, by their example - and by judging those titleholders on their honor and activities, we - that is, those among us with the ability to effect change in those ranks - in our own way "vote" on how we wish the community of the rings to be portrayed.
By way of example, Dalamar is under fire for his policies by a segment of this community. While Dalamar has my support as a friend, I must also respect the desire of his opposition to attempt to change the environment of the rings to reflect their own codes of honor. Even as I must respect those desires, I must also respect Dalamar's own desire to use his position to offer his OWN example of what he considers to be correct.
In my view, I (or any other dueler) have the duty to support my (or they their own) view of how this community should be reflected. If I disagree strenuously enough with a renegade Baron's policies, it is my duty to attempt to remove him. If I disagree similarly with the Overlord, it is my duty to either remove a loyal Baron, or attempt to remove the Overlord himself. If I agree with the Overlord, it is my duty to defend him, if possible.
Some disagree with this philosophy, and merely consider this a sport. That, too, is their right, though I disagree vehemently, and have acted (and WILL act) to remove such persons from 'power.' They have the ability, should they possess the skill, to gain and retain their position of influence, and impart their vision of the rings on the masses.
And that, Lady Dragonbane, in answer to your question, is what I consider the 'job' of the titled ranks - to lead by example, and to fight for their vision.
Iain MacKenzie
Lord Tynsdale
Prince Consort, New Mountainside
Warlord and Thrice-Baron of the Duel of Swords.
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From: karyepezd@aol.com (Karye PezD)
Date: 22 Jan 1998 09:50:47 EST
Iain MacKenzie, Lord Tynsdale, etc.-
Back home, power came with age, thus respect came with age. Here, power and respect come with skill, since only skill will allow you to get and keep a Baron's ring or the crown (does he wear a crown? Does he even get a crown? Or is it just a bigger ring?). Those positions of power, in both places, makes the ones with that power the respected role models for the newcomers. But...back home, if there was someone who wasn't worthy of that respect to
an extreme, sometimes forces would act to eliminate them from that position of strength.
This is my point- the person at fault would be taken out. Their supporters would not, unless those doing the removing were trying to scare the final target before taking care of him/her. Now, if I make Warlady and I have a problem with the Overlord, what would the point be of trying to remove one of the Loyal Barons? Why wouldn't I just go after the Overlord himself? Yes, I know I could challenge the Overlord, but I'm wondering what the logic is
behind the statement "If I disagree similarly with the Overlord, it is my duty to either remove a loyal Baron, or attempt to remove the Overlord himself."
One other thing..I consider this a sport, not a basis for some great political game like I've heard it is. At the same time, even with the few visits I've made to the Arena, I have my own ideas on what it should be like..I'd like to be the Overlady someday. If I am, or a Baroness, maybe I'll be able to use that position of respect to "impart my vision of the rings on the masses". Just because I consider the duels to be a sport, recreation, a place
where people should respect each other and have fun, would that make me such a bad leader?
K.P.
Tryin' to learn
Date: 22 Jan 1998 09:50:47 EST
Iain MacKenzie, Lord Tynsdale, etc.-
Back home, power came with age, thus respect came with age. Here, power and respect come with skill, since only skill will allow you to get and keep a Baron's ring or the crown (does he wear a crown? Does he even get a crown? Or is it just a bigger ring?). Those positions of power, in both places, makes the ones with that power the respected role models for the newcomers. But...back home, if there was someone who wasn't worthy of that respect to
an extreme, sometimes forces would act to eliminate them from that position of strength.
This is my point- the person at fault would be taken out. Their supporters would not, unless those doing the removing were trying to scare the final target before taking care of him/her. Now, if I make Warlady and I have a problem with the Overlord, what would the point be of trying to remove one of the Loyal Barons? Why wouldn't I just go after the Overlord himself? Yes, I know I could challenge the Overlord, but I'm wondering what the logic is
behind the statement "If I disagree similarly with the Overlord, it is my duty to either remove a loyal Baron, or attempt to remove the Overlord himself."
One other thing..I consider this a sport, not a basis for some great political game like I've heard it is. At the same time, even with the few visits I've made to the Arena, I have my own ideas on what it should be like..I'd like to be the Overlady someday. If I am, or a Baroness, maybe I'll be able to use that position of respect to "impart my vision of the rings on the masses". Just because I consider the duels to be a sport, recreation, a place
where people should respect each other and have fun, would that make me such a bad leader?
K.P.
Tryin' to learn
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From: iainmacknz@aol.com (IainMacKnz)
Date: 22 Jan 1998 17:53:47 EST
Having been asked, the point of removing a Loyal Baron, in some instances, is to erode the Overlord's support.
~irm
Date: 22 Jan 1998 17:53:47 EST
Having been asked, the point of removing a Loyal Baron, in some instances, is to erode the Overlord's support.
~irm
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From: drakewynx@aol.com (Drakewyn x)
Date: 22 Jan 1998 21:54:00 EST
Well spoken Iain... You've given me alot to think about, and for that, I thank you.
Lady Drake.
Date: 22 Jan 1998 21:54:00 EST
Well spoken Iain... You've given me alot to think about, and for that, I thank you.
Lady Drake.
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From: ldyaja@aol.com (LdyAja)
Date: 23 Jan 1998 20:22:57 EST
Finally something, ol' Iain and I can talk about without the insults flying! Wonders never cease.
And thank you, Iain, for taking the time to write an answer to my question. It's much appreciated.
Anyone else wanna add their thoughts? After all this was a question to the DoS community.
~Aja~
Date: 23 Jan 1998 20:22:57 EST
Finally something, ol' Iain and I can talk about without the insults flying! Wonders never cease.
And thank you, Iain, for taking the time to write an answer to my question. It's much appreciated.
Anyone else wanna add their thoughts? After all this was a question to the DoS community.
~Aja~